Harbourmaster IFSC - RIP?

cson

Signs up on the door saying closed until further notice; anyone know anything more?

Would be a huge shame as the place does great food & has reasonable prices Thursday/Friday. I know they usually close Sunday but it seemed to be busy enough to be viable during the week and certainly Saturday/Sunday.

Easy Rod

cson wrote: »

Signs up on the door saying closed until further notice; anyone know anything more?

Would be a huge shame as the place does great food & has reasonable prices Thursday/Friday. I know they usually close Sunday but it seemed to be busy enough to be viable during the week and certainly Saturday/Sunday.

Very strange, went for a pint the week before last on a Wednesday for the City vs Liverpool game but couldn't get a seat it was so busy.

Ended up having to go to Lagoona instead...not something I want to make a regular occurrence.

Oswin

That's mad, I was only talking to someone in there yesterday about booking the function room for a party and they didn't mention anything!

Clauric

Walked by it this evening. According to the signs on the doors, it is reopening tomorrow. Seems to have been a problem with the building.

cson

Still closed this morning.

TheDoctor

Place was raided by "Special Branch" yesterday morning around 7am according to the security lads in the IFSC.

Lux23

Did they mean the Revenue?

drake70

Possibly related to all the recent Garda raids happening recently. A pub in the north of the city was mentioned in a few articles yesterday.

Edit: My mistake, I misread the article. The raid was on a home attached to a pub.

"Ten out of the 11 houses raided were in an extended south city area stretching out from Raleigh Square in Crumlin, while the other home, which was linked to a pub, was located in the north inner city."

source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/over-1m-worth-of-property-seized-and-panic-room-discovered-as-cab-hits-kinahan-34527708.html

(unable to bold text or create proper link as vbulletin is blocked for me)

TheDoctor

No idea - the security lads in the IFSC saw the place been opened up yesterday morning around 7am and so called the property owners to ask was this expected?

They were told to stay clear and leave the individuals do what they were doing.

TheDoctor

Though from my desk I can now see lights on and a member of stuff cleaning down the tables in the beer garden.

cson

Always thought the cops raiding it rumour was a load of ****e.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/receivers-must-leave-harbourmaster-pub-in-ifsc-so-it-can-trade-during-irelanditaly-rugby-game-34532222.html

Dispute over lease payments.

No surprise who's involved on the loan side of things, would not be in least bit surprised to see this take a turn down the same road Clerys ended up on. They're a very self serving bunch to put it nicely, you'd have to wonder who in NAMA thought selling to these vulture funds would be a painless exercise. :rolleyes:

Feel for the owners; Thursday & Friday would be their biggest nights & I do hope if they're successful in the dispute that they're suitably compensated for the loss of business arising from this.

newacc2015

cson wrote: »

No surprise who's involved on the loan side of things, would not be in least bit surprised to see this take a turn down the same road Clerys ended up on. They're a very self serving bunch to put it nicely, you'd have to wonder who in NAMA thought selling to these vulture funds would be a painless exercise. :rolleyes:

NAMA was set up to maximise the return for the tax payer. Although I would prefer if their portfolios were brought by Irish citizens. If a vulture fund from the US or Germany is willing to pay the most. It is right thing for the tax payer

You see people raising the issue with the Irish buying up chunks of London.

Roadtoad

Good riddance.

They had no alcohol-free beer the only time I crossed the threshold, one sunny summer evening.

Easy Rod

Roadtoad wrote: »

Good riddance.

They had no alcohol-free beer the only time I crossed the threshold, one sunny summer evening.

Haha...what?

I don't wish closure on a venue if they don't serve what I want, I just don't go there!

cson

newacc2015 wrote: »

NAMA was set up to maximise the return for the tax payer. Although I would prefer if their portfolios were brought by Irish citizens. If a vulture fund from the US or Germany is willing to pay the most. It is right thing for the tax payer

You see people raising the issue with the Irish buying up chunks of London.

In theory. In practice you've the likes of Project Eagle and God knows what else.

Anyway I digress; hopefully the pub will continue to be operational, retaining all the staff and quality of the food. Be it in Sean Doyle's hands or whoever.

ollaetta

A brief reprieve maybe. Receivers told to leave pub until after Six Nations

artanevilla

Roadtoad wrote: »

Good riddance.

They had no alcohol-free beer the only time I crossed the threshold, one sunny summer evening.

God forbid a boozer has no alcohol free beer.

Muahahaha

newacc2015 wrote: »

NAMA was set up to maximise the return for the tax payer. Although I would prefer if their portfolios were brought by Irish citizens. If a vulture fund from the US or Germany is willing to pay the most. It is right thing for the tax payer

You see people raising the issue with the Irish buying up chunks of London.

Its not that vulture funds from the US is willing to pay the most, it is that NAMA is selling everything in €1bn+ tranches and no Irish people can afford to compete at that level. If NAMA were truly aiming to get the best value for the taxpayer they would have divided it into much smaller tranches of €100m and they would get a lot more interested buyers.

The idea that NAMA is getting the best value for the taxpayer became redundant just a couple of years after their formation when they sold Battersea Power Station in London for £400m. The developers of that site are now going on to gross approx £9bn by the time it is finished, It is for that reason that a London Property Hedge Fund manager called NAMAs sale of Battersea so cheap "The deal of the Century".

newacc2015

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its not that vulture funds from the US is willing to pay the most, it is that NAMA is selling everything in €1bn+ tranches and no Irish people can afford to compete at that level. If NAMA were truly aiming to get the best value for the taxpayer they would have divided it into much smaller tranches of €100m and they would get a lot more interested buyers.

The idea that NAMA is getting the best value for the taxpayer became redundant just a couple of years after their formation when they sold Battersea Power Station in London for £400m. The developers of that site are now going on to gross approx £9bn by the time it is finished, It is for that reason that a London Property Hedge Fund manager called NAMAs sale of Battersea so cheap "The deal of the Century".

NAMA is not selling everything in €1billion chunks. Phisboro shopping centre was priced at €15 million.

NAMA actually got £495million. £495 million was the best price at the time and it was sold on the open market. I dont think you can do anything better to maximise the price.

NAMA arent a developer and they openly say that. There was no way they could have developed a project like Battersea power station. Plus you are committing money to a project, while Ireland is a deep recession and is seriously stuck for cash. The London property market is starting to cool. Let see if they get anywhere near £9bn in profit.

Muahahaha

No but the bulk of what they are selling is way out of the league of Irish investors. It is common business sense to sell things in smaller parcels, that way you end up with better prices. NAMA is not doing this, Noonan toldid them to have a fire sale and get rid of property asap. Once the market knew that they knew NAMA was selling for rock bottom prices. They sold the Gasworks apartments right next door to Google for €110,000 a 2 bed which is just a joke given they are full up with Google employees renting for almost €2k a month. There is no way anyone can make an argument that this was the best value for the taxpayer, if they had of sold through normal estate agents they would have got far more than €110,000 a unit.

As for Battersea, it was one of the jewels in their crown but they let it go too soon for next to nothing just as the London property market took off. Anyone in their right mind could have seen that such a prime site with full planning permission on the river Thames was worth more than £400m. Dont take my word for it though, heres what Paddy McKillen, Irelands most successful property developer and an expert in London based property had to say about it-

Nama was last night accused of losing a vast amount of money for Irish taxpayers through the sale of London's iconic Battersea power station, which the agency sold for €600m but is now expected to generate profits of up €10bn.
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In an interview with the Sunday Independent, the head of property research at CBRE – the UK's biggest property firm – described the purchase of Battersea by Malaysian investors as "the deal of the century".
His comments come just days after Nama chairman Frank Daly told the Sunday Independent that the agency had secured a "very good deal" for taxpayers.
"We think we got a very good deal and remember, we weren't the only ones involved in that syndicate. I think everybody involved in it at the selling site thought we got a good price at the right time so we have no concerns. No regrets about that," Mr Daly said.
However, developer Paddy McKillen, who is one of Nama's most vocal critics, this weekend hit out at the agency's handling of the sale of the Battersea station, which was the most lucrative asset held by Richard Barrett and John Ronan's Treasury Holdings.
He told the Sunday Independent: "The untimely and impulsive sale of the Battersea site – one of the world's finest, was probably one of the most devastating decisions for the Irish economy.
"My view is that the site was sold for a steal and the new owners probably made a billion within a few months and will most likely make billions on the development.I feel the sale also caused catastrophic damage to Treasury Holdings, an Irish company."

At the end of the day NAMA is run by an accountant and a former taxman. These lads don't have a clue of the commercial property market, between them they had zero experience in this domain before they were made heads of NAMA. And it definitely shows, they are having rings run round them by far smarter people.

Victor

Muahahaha wrote: »

The idea that NAMA is getting the best value for the taxpayer became redundant just a couple of years after their formation when they sold Battersea Power Station in London for £400m. The developers of that site are now going on to gross approx £9bn by the time it is finished

But they will have to spend billions building it, they aren't making a profit of billions.

Your post comes across as either financially illiterate or deliberately misleading.

Marcusm

Muahahaha wrote: »

No but the bulk of what they are selling is way out of the league of Irish investors. It is common business sense to sell things in smaller parcels, that way you end up with better prices. NAMA is not doing this, Noonan toldid them to have a fire sale and get rid of property asap. Once the market knew that they knew NAMA was selling for rock bottom prices. They sold the Gasworks apartments right next door to Google for €110,000 a 2 bed which is just a joke given they are full up with Google employees renting for almost €2k a month. There is no way anyone can make an argument that this was the best value for the taxpayer, if they had of sold through normal estate agents they would have got far more than €110,000 a unit.

Let's not allow the facts to get in the way of a good rant. The average sale price of The Alliance was €190k per apartment. Secondly, Liam Carroll was financed by Ulster Bank and thus it was that bank (substantially owned by the UK tax payer) which undertook the sale and took the loss. Nama had no involvement whatsoever.

As for Battersea, it was one of the jewels in their crown but they let it go too soon for next to nothing just as the London property market took off. Anyone in their right mind could have seen that such a prime site with full planning permission on the river Thames was worth more than £400m. Dont take my word for it though, heres what Paddy McKillen, Irelands most successful property developer and an expert in London based property had to say about it-

Battersea is a 10-15 year project. Nama received 100% of the outstanding loan which it had purchased from Irish banks at 80% of face value. Depending on the security structure it is possible that the developer/owner might have managed to accrue further profits but Treasury/REO etc were famed for few cross guarantees meaning that any excess profit would have flowed back to the individuals. In any case, Nama was not in a position either to finance or develop the site.

Personally, I don't think Nama has been anything like a success and they were very closed minded in how it was staffed - as you say NTMA.Revenue staff backed up with mostly Irish property managers who had been part of building up the problem. However, the examples you have chosen are wide of the mark.

cson

Be great to have a pint in the Harbo again though.

Wait... Am I after straying off topic here?! :pac:

Into The Blue

Just once they have alcohol free water.

jimmycrackcorm

artanevilla wrote:

God forbid a boozer has no alcohol free beer.

And cars parked outside

jimmycrackcorm

Marcusm wrote:

Personally, I don't think Nama has been anything like a success and they were very closed minded in how it was staffed - as you say NTMA.Revenue staff backed up with mostly Irish property managers who had been part of building up the problem. However, the examples you have chosen are wide of the mark.

NAMA will in all likelihood make a profit on what it has paid. It might not be the same as for what the country has spent on rescuing the banks, but NAMA is doing the job it was set up for.

newacc2015

Muahahaha wrote: »

No but the bulk of what they are selling is way out of the league of Irish investors. It is common business sense to sell things in smaller parcels, that way you end up with better prices. NAMA is not doing this, Noonan toldid them to have a fire sale and get rid of property asap. Once the market knew that they knew NAMA was selling for rock bottom prices. They sold the Gasworks apartments right next door to Google for €110,000 a 2 bed which is just a joke given they are full up with Google employees renting for almost €2k a month. There is no way anyone can make an argument that this was the best value for the taxpayer, if they had of sold through normal estate agents they would have got far more than €110,000 a unit.

As for Battersea, it was one of the jewels in their crown but they let it go too soon for next to nothing just as the London property market took off. Anyone in their right mind could have seen that such a prime site with full planning permission on the river Thames was worth more than £400m. Dont take my word for it though, heres what Paddy McKillen, Irelands most successful property developer and an expert in London based property had to say about it-



At the end of the day NAMA is run by an accountant and a former taxman. These lads don't have a clue of the commercial property market, between them they had zero experience in this domain before they were made heads of NAMA. And it definitely shows, they are having rings run round them by far smarter people.

Do you know the top 250 richest people in Ireland are worth €40 million or more? You are basically saying we should be selling these assets to the Dunnes, Goodmans or Dennis O'Brien. As they are only ones who would be in the position to buy the large assets. NAMA have sold individual houses and small sites. It makes more sense to sell an apartment to an insurance company than to small investors.

You are failing to understand if you sold something 4 years ago for the best possible price at the time. It was the best decision at the time. Just because it is worth 20% more now doesnt mean they made a bad decision at the time.

Battersea was sold for £495 million! Your quote even states that. NAMA wasnt the only bank involved. There was Llyods who thought they were also getting a good price at the time. The London property market has been insane for decades and did not just take off then. The bubble is starting to bust in London.

What about NAMA? NAMA is part of the NTMA. Ask any expert on Government bonds and they will tell you NTMA do a fantastic job at managing our national debt. They have done a great job at running NAMA. They could have been better at times. But it hard when you are managing one of the largest property companies, if not the largest property company in the world over night.

Muahahaha

Victor wrote: »

But they will have to spend billions building it, they aren't making a profit of billions.

Your post comes across as either financially illiterate or deliberately misleading.

I think you misread my post- I said they were going to gross billions- I never specualted on their net profit. One thing I do know that if it grosses the €10 billion that is expected then the sale of the land with full planning permission on the banks of the Thames was too cheap. NAMA should have held off, it was their prize asset and they let it go for a song, or "The Deal of the Century" as one London hedge fund manager put it.

So do you think Paddy McKillen is financially illiterate too? He said it was sold at a massive cost to the Irish taxpayer, I think I will take his word over that of Brendan McDonogh and Frank Daly, two men who haven't a clue about the London property market. McKillen has three decades of experience operating in that market whereas the NAMA boys who made this decision were relative amateurs, a tax man and accountant who went to market and got done.

Victor

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think you misread my post- I said they were going to gross billions- I never specualted on their net profit.

Exactly. You made it out that they were going to make billions, but you conveniently left out the matter of costs.

Muahahaha

No you just didn't spot that I said 'gross'. Inherent in the word gross in business terms is that there is costs to arrive at net. You made an insinuation that I am financially illiterate but I think it was yourself who didn't understand the sentence.

Fact still remains that NAMA sold Battersea for a song, anyone saying otherwise must think they are smarter than the likes of Paddy McKillen who was about the only Irish developer to come out of the crash intact.

athtrasna

So is the Harbourmaster closed again? Now that the rugby is over?