Lack of tall buildings in Dublin

MarkAnthony

NiallBoo wrote: »

Infrastructure upgrades need to happen anyway and still wouldn't be cancelled out, especially when you take into account other life benefits.

You're also overstating the added added construction costs -especially when land costs are such a big factor.

An added benefit is that it would help reduce the unsustainable growth of house prices across the whole city and surrounding areas.

You really seem to think that developing infrastructure is a bad thing and ignore all of the city-living benefits that go along with it.

I lived in the inner city all through my twenties and loved it. When I hit my thirties I wanted something different as do many people. Developing infastructure is a great thing, unless you need to get down Dawson street anytime in the last 18 months. I don;t know why you think I think it's a bad thing, its brilliant but isn't going to happen over night.

You're vastly underestimating the engineering issues of 9 stories vs 40.

House prices in Dublin are not overpriced generally. In some areas they are, building loads of apartments will do absolutely nothing to change that, generally people want to live in houses. That's not going to change in the short-medium term.

maninasia

The engineering issues? Building medium to high rise apartment blocks isn't difficult in reality, it's bog standard around most urban areas worldwide! I know for a fact profit margins can be very juicy in such buildings, stands to reason as you get more accommodation for given plot of land and the materials can be purchased in bulk.

newacc2015

MarkAnthony wrote: »

See below. Although I reject the premis that there isn't affordable accomadation in Dublin. I did a thread a few months back about how a couple on minimum wage could service a mortgage in Balbriggan. An average couple can afford a 3/4 bed semi in D5; 20 minutes out of the centre.

The issue is actually affordable single person accomadation, that isn't solved by anything put forward in this thread.



Upgrading the infastructure would render any potential saving moot. Also building costs sky rocket (no pun intended) once you start adding floors. You're talking about massively increasing the electricity supply, telecoms, and sewers, something that would take years and create huge disruption. To cope with the transit demands, think spokes on a wheel at the moment, you'd have to invest in a proper metro system. Of course we'll eventually need this anyway, but it will happen gradually - trying to put even one or two 40+ story buildings in Dublin would create massive local issues.

So in a generation when have moved Dublin another 5/10 km into the suburbs. I imagine the house prices in Balbriggin will be unaffordable again. How you address that?

That might be an issue if power for Dublin City wasnt generated right in the city at Bullwall. Likewise the sewage might be a problem,if wasnt treated right beside the power station. This is even a smaller issue since most of the free land in Dublin City is and currently has nothing on it. Happens to be right beside the sewage plant and power station. There will be minimal disruption and it will be cheap to put these services in. Do you know what isnt cheap? Having to build Luas lines out into the middle of nowhere, as housing is being built there instead of the city.

The wheel works when a city is like a wheel. But Dublin is shaped like a semi-circle. The Irish sea stops the city spreading east.

What local issues will high rises create? You dont seem to realise that NYC has gone from having 4 storey buildings/ warehouses to 40/70 storey buildings in places like Willamsburg with minimal issues. It can be done.

What has created massive issues is building swords, Balbriggan, Lush etc. They have completely destroyed the inner suburbs. Drumcondra is a glorified passageway to the city. Most residents in Drumcondra dont own a car, as they are so close to the city. Most residents in a high rise would not own a car either.

Victor

MarkAnthony wrote: »

*Tall building aren't the solution to that either, it's building houses people want to live in affordably.

We need accommodation, not necessarily houses. Not everyone needs, wants or has the skills or finances to maintain a house.

the_syco wrote: »

So instead of 30 shoeboxes squashed into 3 floors, they are built up, so that the 30 apartments are built over 15 floors. This way the apartments are built so that families can live in them, and not just couple who have a child in the storage room.

Having two apartments per floor means a huge amount of your footprint is given over to lifts, stairs and lobbies. I take it that at 15 storeys, you would like there to be a second lift, in case the first broken down and a second stairs in case the first is compromised by fire. Having two 15-storey lifts is a huge financial and maintenance burden for 30 apartments.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Dublin has enough office space to facilitate the business that is here, or that wants to be here.

The office vacancy level is about 3%. Given that you want to do a major refurbishment every 15-30 years, that leaves not a lot of space between old tenant moving out and new tenant moving in. It leaves no room for expansion.

Clive

newacc2015 wrote: »

Most residents in Drumcondra dont own a car, as they are so close to the city. Most residents in a high rise would not own a car either.

I can't agree with this. Whilst I'm in favour of high rise if practical, the height of an apartment block won't change the prevailing culture.

To use your example, most people in Drumcondra do own a car, often two or three per house. Look at any road in Drumcondra in the evening, and by and large every parking space is full.

Existing apartment blocks in the city centre (in my experience) also have full car parks. While I'm sure there is a drop in car ownership and use for residents of the city centre, high rise won't make Dublin into New York.

Even with high rise, the city would still be congested as government doesn't want to grasp that nettle.

Victor

Clive wrote: »

I can't agree with this. Whilst I'm in favour of high rise if practical, the height of an apartment block won't change the prevailing culture.

It can. Restrict parking spaces and you restrict car ownership and usage.

To use your example, most people in Drumcondra do own a car, often two or three per house. Look at any road in Drumcondra in the evening, and by and large every parking space is full.

I think it will depend on the part of Drumcondra. Where do they store the cars with streets like these?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3615529,-6.2551696,3a,75y,110.71h,85.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRzAh8C0cL84FxF97USpiOA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DRzAh8C0cL84FxF97USpiOA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D20.019085%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3639679,-6.2602729,3a,75y,29.47h,83.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slYAGv_hrTDwqMRbv74RbXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3660715,-6.2584635,3a,75y,112.56h,85.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBeyHcni4jIemDj9Ccf_guw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBeyHcni4jIemDj9Ccf_guw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D303.89709%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.368483,-6.2563873,3a,75y,218.24h,87.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sv5qveeNX3CMuCQoJ72ygkA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dv5qveeNX3CMuCQoJ72ygkA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D326.60229%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

Existing apartment blocks in the city centre (in my experience) also have full car parks.

Many of them only have 0.5 parking spaces per apartment.

While I'm sure there is a drop in car ownership and use for residents of the city centre, high rise won't make Dublin into New York.

Only about 20% of people living in D1, D2, D7, D8 drive to work.

newacc2015

Clive wrote: »

I can't agree with this. Whilst I'm in favour of high rise if practical, the height of an apartment block won't change the prevailing culture.

To use your example, most people in Drumcondra do own a car, often two or three per house. Look at any road in Drumcondra in the evening, and by and large every parking space is full.

Existing apartment blocks in the city centre (in my experience) also have full car parks. While I'm sure there is a drop in car ownership and use for residents of the city centre, high rise won't make Dublin into New York.

Even with high rise, the city would still be congested as government doesn't want to grasp that nettle.

Do you regularly drive in Dublin City? Is it quicker to walk than drive in most of the city from pretty 8am to 8pm. You have also ignored that 20% of non-nationals make up the cities population and I imagine a majority of them dont own a car. It is too expensive to own a car if you live/work in the city. Car ownership is falling rapidly for under 30s. I know more people under 30 without a licence than with a licence in Dublin.

Apartment car parks are full of people letting their spaces to offices. I know landlords who have dozens apartments with car spaces in the city and not one of them lets it to their tenant. No tenant is going to spend €80-100 per month for the use of a car space when they work/live in the city. There are hundreds of apartment blocks in the city with no car spaces and none of the residents care. If you provide car spaces with apartments, people will use them. The same way when a public sector worker is given a free car space in the middle of D2, they drive to work instead of taking the bus. Yet Trinity provides practically no spaces to students or workers. Guess what, students and workers still get to Trinity on public transport each morning

Facilitating car ownership with more car spaces in the city and banning high rise in the city, which makes people commute only makes the problem worse. Allowing people to live in high rises in Dublin 1/2 wont deal with existing congestion, but it wont worsen it in the long run.

The car culture wouldnt exist if you could live/work in the city. Ask any residents of the IFSC would they spend €4k a year for the luxury of driving for 30 mins to work instead of walking 10 mins.

Idbatterim

What could have been...

in terms of that pd plan, I wouldnt be surprised if a long way down the road, that comes to fruition. a huge amount of sites around the docklands which werent developed because of the crash, work is either currently in progress or will be shortly. When all of these low hanging fruit sites go and if we become uncompetitive again and it is already starting. It may simply force the issue...

Builders wont start building again until it makes sense. Who can blame them! I read a good article in the independent the other day, a developer put down a good few figures and building a house is a good bit cheaper than an apartment. So its not surprising to see quite a lot of houses being built, but little in the way of apartments...

I live with 2 other professionals. Who in their late twenties early thirties wants to share anymore. Give me a nice if even compact place in the city centre, even better if "high rise" with views... Who in gods name wants to be sharing at this age?! But short of paying E1300 min for a 1 bed on your own in any decent area of dublin. They way I see it, they need family friendly apartments, but also give professionals the option to get out of family homes and into their own place...

The car culture wouldnt exist if you could live/work in the city. Ask any residents of the IFSC would they spend €4k a year for the luxury of driving for 30 mins to work instead of walking 10 mins.

exactly if you look at the IFSC and take a 1km radius, look at all the companies that are there and even all the new buildings being built, that will house tens of thousands of workers. How many of them would way prefer to have their own space within walking distance of work and the "city centre"? walking being the key word here given the joke that is the transport "system"...

defrule

Apartments can be really good, I was in a mall in Hong Kong a few months ago and I discovered right on top of it was an apartment complex and I found the website for it.

http://www.pacificplaceapartments.com.hk/en/hong-kong-apartment.shtml#

I've live in these rather than a house any day.

pwurple

jayjay2010 wrote: »

I've always been amazed at the lack of tall buildings in Ireland.

I think they help to shape a city's skyline and give them some focal point.

And a few tall residential buildings would mean great views of the city/mountains!

I can't wait for Ireland to get its first skyscraper. I don't count the Elysian in Cork as one....

The elysian in cork may not be a skyscraper at only 17 stories above ground level but it is a good example of a well designed residential inner city complex fit for long term living. Built at the wrong time to get the appreciation it deserves imho.

Mixed units of apartments and bigger living spaces over both two and three floors. High ceilings, good internal layout. Residential parking, over two floors of basement. Storage units available in basements. Inner 1 acre of gardens hidden within the block which include thundering waterfalls to drown out city noises.

More elysian style buildings would be most welcome to me.