Car Incident. Need advice

lawred2

Libertewhite wrote: »

So here is my dilemma:




I'm the red lines. Other person is blue dots.

I went on to the roundabout at the turn before the dots. (Where the red lines start)
When I went on to the roundabout, there was nobody else on it. I couldn't see anybody going from my right and there was nobody in front of me. Blue line was not there, thus the blue question mark.
Anyway.

I was indicating right, to follow the yellow lines. If I had managed to get to the yellow spot, I would indicate to go left.
So, this blue car comes speeding around the roundabout and cuts into me. Both of the sides of our cars clash. My right side and her left hand side.

We both got out, asked her if she was okay, she asked if I was okay, etc. Then she said I was in the fault. I said she was in the fault, then she said I was definitely in the fault again and I said sorry. She asked for my details, I gave them. I asked her for her details and she didn't respond. Not sure if she fobbed me off or didn't hear me. All I got was her name, number and licence plate.

She was being really nice and she said she was in shock. I was in shock, too.
When we were parting ways, she said she would get cost to fix and contact me later.

She said she was in an incident last week with her own car and police were involved. (Hit and run). Blue car was her dads car.
I'm a learner driver with L plates up. I have tax and insurance both in date. I didn't have anyone accompany me as I was driving.

What should I do? I can't think straight and I'm shaking.

you were in the outside lane going right by the looks of it??

if I'm right

you are badly at fault

lawred2

emeldc wrote: »

She (blue) was going left and should have been in the left lane

no.. she could have come on at the point that the op was trying to exit

she would have been in the right hand lane and indicating left to change out

op cut across her because he/she was in the wrong lane

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

Is there a difference? I'm not claiming it's something set in stone anywhere?

Anyway the main point I was addressing was this:

Which is untrue for the majority of roundabouts.

You shouldn't be talking about roundabout use because you clearly don't know how to use them!

If you are in the outside lane of course you should be using the next exit.
Otherwise you're going to be crossing the exit in the wrong lane.
Just as the OP was.

emeldc

.........

TheChizler

EndaHonesty wrote: »

You shouldn't be talking about roundabout use because you clearly don't know how to use them!

If you are in the outside lane of course you should be using the next exit.
Otherwise you're going to be crossing the exit in the wrong lane.
Just as the OP was.

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

emeldc

TheChizler wrote: »

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

Yep, if you were to follow this, the OP is in the clear as I see it.

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

TheHillOfDoom

If the blue car came onto the roundabout at the top of the pic she was in the correct lane, but should obviously not have tipped into you. You only take the left lane when you're taking the first /next exit. You were in the incorrect lane. However, she was clearly trying to exit where the collision occurred? Both at fault really.

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

Of course you're right, using the actual "general rule" or as the book calls it, the "golden rule" if you are exiting between 6 o'clock or 12 o'clock you can be in the left lane.

Mea culpa.

EndaHonesty

emeldc wrote: »

Yep, if you were to follow this, the OP is in the clear as I see it.

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

That video is not relevant to the OP as the roundabout in the video has no lanes.
The roundabout in the OP has defined lanes.

Libertewhite

Update: I was just on the phone to my insurance company. Took the advice and just told them, even if the other party doesn't claim against me there is no harm in just informing them. Gave them details and they put it on the back burner in case needed.

Woman on the phone said, "This is a really tough call and we would need some time to figure it out". Let us know if the other driver rings you. If you are unsure about the money they are asking for, ring us and we will get our mechanic out to assess the damage."

She didn't ask if I had a fully licensed driver with me.

TheHillOfDoom

Ok - I'm thinking more about this. It really depends on where she had entered and where she was planning to exit. Could she have presumed that you were exiting at the collision point and she was moving into the left position ready to EXIT at the top?

TheHillOfDoom

Well that sounds good OP!

Libertewhite

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Well that sounds good OP!

She said it was always best to call them first. Even if neither party goes through with it. I guess so they can get ready? Or start defending? I have no idea what they do..

RustyNut

It would be very easy to make the argument that blue car should be held responsible on the basis that they entered a lane, ie the left hand lane on the roundabout, without it being clear to do so.

The insurance companies will most likely put it down to a 50 50 and fcuk both drivers over for their NCB.

Voodoomelon

Red was in the wrong, blue was in the right. Funny thing is though, if you weren't driving unaccompanied, i'd bet the insurance companies would rule 50:50. The blue driver also entered an occupied lane.

frozenfrozen

both in the wrong, OP in the wrong lane, blue should have not across OP's path (if you trusted other drivers on roundabouts you would be in an accident every second day).
70:30 blame on OPs side in my opinion. But since OP didn't see her, was in the wrong lane, didn't have an accompanying driver, OP should cover the costs outside of insurance, it's likely there was even more going on like OP not indicating and holding a lane position which gave the impression of taking the exit, too.

Dial Hard

The scariest part of this thread is how many people don't know which is the inside and which is the outside lane.

OP was in the inside lane.

Ush1

Dial Hard wrote: »

The scariest part of this thread is how many people don't know which is the inside and which is the outside lane.

OP was in the inside lane.

No he wasn't?

That would be the outer lane of the roundabout.

Libertewhite

Dial Hard wrote: »

The scariest part of this thread is how many people don't know which is the inside and which is the outside lane.

OP was in the inside lane.

I asked the customer representative on the phone to tell me which is the inside lane and which is the outside lane. "Closest to the roundabout is the inside. The outer lane is the outside lane."

frozenfrozen

it just depends on how you look at it. I would be of the opinion that lane 1 is the inside lane and lane 2 is the outside lane. but when you look at it from a birds eye perspective then yes it also makes sense to call lane 2 the inside lane. Just a matter of your perspective...

Jan Laco

She was using the correct lane and you were not. You will have to pay up but good luck with the insurance after they find our you were driving alone.

emeldc

Dial Hard wrote: »

The scariest part of this thread is how many people don't know which is the inside and which is the outside lane.

OP was in the inside lane.

The last 'inside, outside lane' thread had 24 pages in it. You must have missed it :rolleyes:

TheHillOfDoom

Jan Laco wrote: »

She was using the correct lane and you were not. You will have to pay up but good luck with the insurance after they find our you were driving alone.

I think I've seen discussions on this before. That is a garda matter and doesn't negate insurance. AFAIK! Same as a drunk driver, though behaving illegally, would still be insured.

Polo_Mint

Were the Guards called when you crashed?

Libertewhite

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Were the Guards called when you crashed?

Nope. It wasn't a bad crash. Just scrapes along the side of our cars. We didn't see the point.

It's amazing how many people on here don't known how to use a roundabout.
Although, looking at drivers on the roads, I'm really not surprised.

TheChizler

bubblypop wrote: »

It's amazing how many people on here don't known how to use a roundabout.
Although, looking at drivers on the roads, I'm really not surprised.

Seeing as there is no hard rule on how to use a roundabout, and many roundabouts have accompanying line markings that contradict expectation, the only thing you can say for sure is follow line markings where they exist, watch out for other drivers, and don't crash!

_Kaiser_

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know that roundabout extremely well, and the OP is very much in the wrong.

The lady in blue went around the roundabout and then exited at her exit, she was in the correct lane and she does not need to switch lanes while on the roundabout to prepare for the upcoming exit. She simply needs to follow the roundabout around and then exit, she did so. She does need to ensure her path is clear and her failure to do so was a contribution, but the incident would not have occurred if the OP knew how to use a roundabout.

Thousands of cars every week will do exactly what "blue" did without a problem, unless they happen to meet the person wrongly going past an exit in the outside lane.

This is the correct analysis IMO

I know this roundabout as well - use it regularly - and people coming towards it from Sandyford (as the OP was) will move into the right lane if heading for Dundrum (under the M50) and left if joining the M50 N after the roundabout (as the blue car was)

The blue car was in the correct lane coming from Dundrum (top of picture) and did not have to move into the OP's lane in advance as there are two exit/merge lanes for M50 N

I'm afraid the OP is in the wrong here.. wrong lane going right on a roundabout.

Incidentally, lane closest to centre of roundabout = inside, outer lane = outside

However on a 2/3 lane road.. lane closest to left = inside/driving lane , lane closest to centre = outside/overtaking lane

Kinda scary that this sort of stuff can be argued over TBH - but not surprising when you see the behaviour on the roads.


Approach road that the OP was on attached - the sign on the left would indicate to me which lane to be in TBH

cml387

Well I would say the sign indicates no such thing other than which exit to take for which direction.

Unless it's actually marked in the lane (and I have no local knowledge ) I can't see how the op is in the wrong.

It's the responsibility of the driver changing lane to make sure that he/she can do so safely.

It may not be ideal to stay in the outside lane going around the roundabout but it's not illegal.

XLR 8

The photo shows that the OP saw the other car (blue dots) They were already on the roundabout. He should have allowed that vehicle to exit ahead of him. Instead he the OP (in the wrong lane) continued past his exit and either collided with her car or vice versa. A poor show by both drivers and a no win situation for either. I'd not be inclined to settle any private arrangements till someone admits liability.

theteal

OP in the wrong Lane. This does not give the other driver the right to smash into the OPs car though. Seems like 2 inexperienced drivers and I couldn't say which way to lay ultimate fault.

OP, this is exactly why you shouldn't be driving unaccompanied but I'm guessing you're fully aware of that by now. All the best with it either way

XLR 8

theteal wrote: »

OP in the wrong Lane. This does not give the other driver the right to smash into the OPs car though. Seems like 2 inexperienced drivers and I couldn't say which way to lay ultimate fault.

OP, this is exactly why you shouldn't be driving unaccompanied but I'm guessing you're fully aware of that by now. All the best with it either way

I agree ðŸ‘

JustTheOne

Left lane for 1st and 2nd exits, right lane for any after it.

Op was doing everything by the book.

It seems the other driver was too but should have never went past the op to exit.

You can't overtake someone on a roundabout and then exit.

XLR 8

JustTheOne wrote: »

Left lane for 1st and 2nd exits, right lane for any after it.

Op was doing everything by the book.

It seems the other driver was too but should have never went past the op to exit.

You can't overtake someone on a roundabout.

Going by the photo the other car was on the roundabout before the OP, in which case he should have gave way and let that car exit first.

JustTheOne

XLR 8 wrote: »

Going by the photo the other car was on the roundabout before the OP, in which case he should have gave way and let that car exit first.

But the op said they couldn't see anyone to their right.

So did the car speed up to exit?

XR3i

theres a lot of bad drivers out there

XLR 8

JustTheOne wrote: »

But the op said they couldn't see anyone to their right.

So did the car speed up to exit?

He said he didn't see it would appear to be the problem, because clearly it was there it hit him. If he didn't see it how can he illustrate it in blue. The only place he knows it's location for definite is at the point of impact..

FortySeven

Op clearly in the wrong lane. This is why drivers must be licenced before driving unaccompanied. I too am not surprised by the arguing over this. The number of people I encounter driving on a daily basis that should not be let operate a toaster astounds me.

savagethegoat

Oh god six pages of this to read...we've been here before so many times. OP you were in the incorrect lane.

The other car was entitled to use the right hand lane to go straight on as there were two lanes in and two out.

(if I missed something by not reading pages 3 to 6, I apologise)

JustTheOne

savagethegoat wrote: »

Oh god six pages of this to read...we've been here before so many times. OP you were in the incorrect lane.

The other car was entitled to use the right hand lane to go straight on as there were two lanes in and two out.

(if I missed something by not reading pages 3 to 6, I apologise)

But the rules of the road state left hand lane for exits 1 and 2.

How was the op in the wrong lane?

Valetta

savagethegoat wrote: »

Oh god six pages of this to read...we've been here before so many times. OP you were in the incorrect lane.

The other car was entitled to use the right hand lane to go straight on as there were two lanes in and two out.

(if I missed something by not reading pages 3 to 6, I apologise)

What you've missed is the fact that the other car crossed over a lane to exit the roundabout without checking that the way was clear to do so.

The OP maintained their lane position so was not at fault.

Damien360

JustTheOne wrote: »

But the rules of the road state left hand lane for exits 1 and 2.

How was the op in the wrong lane?

You are being silly. There is no exit one. There is exit 2 and 3. OP was in wrong lane.

Didn't read all thread, just first and last page. It looks like beacon junction down to dundrum. M50 south is exit 2 and dundrum is exit 3. No reason whatsoever to think you can go all the way around on the outside lane.

odyssey06

JustTheOne wrote: »

But the rules of the road state left hand lane for exits 1 and 2.
How was the op in the wrong lane?

They don't really... good diagrams here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79077769&postcount=3

Going straight ahead (or any exit to the left of 12 o’clock):
Approach in the lefthand lane (unless road markings say otherwise) but do not indicate ‘left’ until you have passed the exit before the one
you intend to take. Where traffic conditions dictate otherwise for example a long line of traffic in left lane signalling left or road works in the left lane, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line.

The course shown by the broken red line is to go straight through the roundabout, taking the 2nd exit, from the right hand lane.
The other vehicle followed this course which is a legitimate maneuver according to the RSA.

The OP was...
Taking any later exits (those past 12 o’clock - Right)
Approach in the righthand lane (unless road markings say otherwise), indicate ‘right ‘on your approach and leave your indicator on until you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take. Then change to the ‘left’ turn indicator.

Valetta

Damien360 wrote: »

You are being silly. There is no exit one. There is exit 2 and 3. OP was in wrong lane.

Didn't read all thread, just first and last page. It looks like beacon junction down to dundrum. M50 south is exit 2 and dundrum is exit 3. No reason whatsoever to think you can go all the way around on the outside lane.

Why do you think the outer lane continues past the exit?

Damien360

Valetta wrote: »

Why do you think the outer lane continues past the exit?

I am guessing you have never seen a 2 lane or three lane roundabout which is common on the M50. That layout in OP is very much like the smaller of those roundabouts.

Outside lane for all exits to 12 o'clock. Inside lane for 12 o'clock (as there are 2 lanes exiting) and 3 o'clock. Normal use dictates they change lane to outside lane after passing 12 o'clock. The outside one is not for going all the way around as you will hit the inside lane car if it is exiting at 12 o'clock. Common sense used.

Valetta

Damien360 wrote: »

I am guessing you have never seen a 2 lane or three lane roundabout which is common on the M50. That layout in OP is very much like the smaller of those roundabouts.

Outside lane for all exits to 12 o'clock. Inside lane for 12 o'clock (as there are 2 lanes exiting) and 3 o'clock. Normal use dictates they change lane to outside lane after passing 12 o'clock. The outside one is not for going all the way around as you will hit the inside lane car if it is exiting at 12 o'clock. Common sense used.

You haven't answered my question.

Damien360

Valetta wrote: »

You haven't answered my question.

First paragraph

Valetta

Damien360 wrote: »

First paragraph

That doesn't answer the question.

Why does the outside lane continue past the exit?

Damien360

Valetta wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question.

Why does the outside lane continue past the exit?

I am guessing you are the type of person the warnings on hairdryers in hotels were written for. There is no teaching someone who cannot learn.

Valetta

Damien360 wrote: »

I am guessing you are the type of person the warnings on hairdryers in hotels were written for. There is no teaching someone who cannot learn.

You're doing a lot of guessing, without answering the question.