RAFA BENITEZ new Newcastle Manager

Mantis Toboggan

monkey9 wrote: »

Why would Newcastle get rid of him? Your quote of your own post makes no sense.

Because he was brought in to save Newcastle from relegation and failed, they couldn't even best Aston Villa last weekend.

Not to mention he's on truck load of money and has no experience of the championship.

Maybe they'll hold onto him, either way he won't be there by next Xmas.

K-9

He did enough that some other PL club will go for him.

Everton?

monkey9

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Because he was brought in to save Newcastle from relegation and failed, they couldn't even best Aston Villa last weekend.

Not to mention he's on truck load of money and has no experience of the championship.

Maybe they'll hold onto him, either way he won't be there by next Xmas.

Whether he's there by next Christmas will be down to him. It's not his fault they got relegated and as for him being a fraud.....:rolleyes:

rob316

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Surely will be gotten rid of, he's a fraud.

A fraud? Go take a look at his list of honours and come back to me. He is by no means perfect but his record speaks for itself.

It was an impossible job, they sacked mclaren too late.

The only fraud is mike Ashley.

LiamoSail

K-9 wrote: »

He did enough that some other PL club will go for him.

Everton?

Didn't he say he'd never manage everton?

Wouldn't be a popular choice with their fans for obvious reasons and of course his small club comments

Mantis Toboggan

rob316 wrote: »

A fraud? Go take a look at his list of honours and come back to me. He is by no means perfect but his record speaks for itself.

It was an impossible job, they sacked mclaren too late.

The only fraud is mike Ashley.

Mike Ashley who's pumped millions into the club?

K-9

LiamoSail wrote: »

Didn't he say he'd never manage everton?

Wouldn't be a popular choice with their fans for obvious reasons and of course his small club comments

I'd say he's one of the few who could get away with it.

monkey9

LiamoSail wrote: »

Didn't he say he'd never manage everton?

Wouldn't be a popular choice with their fans for obvious reasons and of course his small club comments

He never actually mentioned the clubs, he just said we all know the two clubs he's talking about and he is clearly talking about Everton and Man U.

I'm not saying that he will become Everton manager, but Rafa is very clinical and methodical in his thinking. It wouldn't surprise me to see him take the Everton job, despite his clear love for Liverpool.

But i say it again, i think he should stick with Newcastle. I truly believe he can become a legend at that club.

Icaras

Mike Ashley who's pumped millions into the club?

No the Mike Ashley who gave Sports direct free advertising, who oversaw the appointement of Carver and McClaren, who put people in place that spent 80m in Jan and didnt buy a central defender.

Paully D

Allardyce summed it up well I thought:

Allardyce also said Newcastle boss Rafa Benitez should not shoulder the blame for the Magpies’ relegation, having taken over with 10 games to go.

He said: “It’s not his fault, is it?

“He’s come and tried and made a valiant effort with the pressure they put us under by winning two and drawing three, so he hasn’t lost in five.

“We’ve only lost one in 10 which is why we have been able to get over the line.”

rob316

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Mike Ashley who's pumped millions into the club?

Too little too late, the investment under his tenure has been shambolic. Joe Kinner, Alan Pardew and Steve mclaren have also managed under his tenure. 2 relegation in 5 years under his tenure. Trusting clowns like Denis wise, Graham carr and Lee chanley to run your club shows how much of a fraud mike Ashley is. The fans are treated with utter contempt.

Have you ever been to Newcastle? That is a city that breaths football, they deserve so much better than this. That club is rotten to the core.

But sure let's blame the guy who got 10 games to save them.

monkey9

Paully D wrote: »

Allardyce summed it up well I thought:

Yep, i'd actually agree with that. Rafa turned Newcastle into some sort of organised relevancy compared to the antics of McClaren.

If Sunderland had have gone down, i'd have said the same about Allardyce in terms of him taking over too late. If he had a full pre season, they'd be about twelfth now.

If Newcastle gave Rafa the job at the start of January, Palace and Swansea would have been dragged in.

Washington Irving

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I reckon they'd have gone down a lot sooner if it weren't for him.

As soon as he took over, you could see they were far better organised and had more bite. If he had come in in January and signed his own players, I reckon they'd have survived. Unfortunately, the shoddy job done by Steve McClaren had sealed their fate.

Even three weeks earlier than he had been and I think they'd have stayed up.

Benitez didn't do much wrong as a manager this season, but he's making a habit of choosing the wrong clubs at the worst moments.

Will admit he's always been a favourite of mine but I can't think of many people in football who are as unfairly vilified as Rafa. He really doesn't help himself at times but it breaks my heart all the same...

/sad panda


PS Stop biting lads, he'll only drive ye into a Fury

Hulk Hands

rob316 wrote: »

A fraud? Go take a look at his list of honours and come back to me. He is by no means perfect but his record speaks for itself.

Can't keep falling back on this old chestnut. I don't believe he can take much blame in this instance (he did what any basic manager should and got them organised). However in the last decade he's basically been in the game continuously, with far more failures than successes. Honours 10-15 years ago lose relevance with every passing year, when evaluating him as a modern day manager. There's weight in the theory that he reached his peak as a manager during a different era of tighter games and less goals, and has been badly left behind by the times since.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/champions-league/2015-2016/clouds-gathering-at-real-madrid-despite-bright-start-to-season_sto4976550/story.shtml

dogbert27

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Can't keep falling back on this old chestnut. I don't believe he can take much blame in this instance (he did what any basic manager should and got them organised). However in the last decade he's basically been in the game continuously, with far more failures than successes. Honours 10-15 years ago lose relevance with every passing year, when evaluating him as a modern day manager. There's weight in the theory that he reached his peak as a manager during a different era of tighter games and less goals, and has been badly left behind by the times since.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/champions-league/2015-2016/clouds-gathering-at-real-madrid-despite-bright-start-to-season_sto4976550/story.shtml

Tenerife
Segunda División promotion: 2000–01

Valencia
La Liga: 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup: 2003–04

Liverpool
FA Cup: 2005–06
FA Community Shield: 2006
UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup: 2005

Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010

Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13

Napoli
Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Every team Benitez has been with he has won honours and finished in the top 4.

Benitez should be taking Madrid to the CL final. He could easily have gotten past Roma, Wolfsburg and would not have relied on an own goal to get past Man City.

It was Benitez who gave Real Madrid their highest ever goals scored in a CL game when the beat Malmo 8-0.

He was very harshly treated by a squad fearful their time was up. They now have a manager who will pander to them again.

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

Every team Benitez has been with he has won honours and finished in the top 4.

On the other hand, before 2005 that silverware was UEFA Cups, Spanish titles and the CL.

Since the FA Cup in 06 you are talking about Italian Cups and the Intertoto (with the reigning CL champions). His tilt at a title at Liverpool ended with that car crash "fact" interview and his career seems to have stalled there too.

As for stuff like Madrid 8 Malmo 0...if that's considered a standout achievement in his time there, it says a lot.

He did well at NUFC mind you. And he seems likeable enough. I'm not certain he'd be suited to the Championship, but you'd expect him to do well in it.

ricero

Anyone that thinks his "fact" press conferance cost lfc the title are delusional. Benitez is a very good manager, pity for newcastle that ashley didnt get rid of that spoofer mclaren earlier and they would be safe now

ricero

Anyone that thinks his "fact" press conferance cost lfc the title are delusional. Benitez is a very good manager, pity for newcastle that ashley didnt get rid of that spoofer mclaren earlier and they would be safe now

ricero

ricero wrote: »

Anyone that thinks his "fact" press conferance cost lfc the title are delusional.

Ah well, of course it actually ended with his teams results, the interview was more symbolic of a manager under pressure than the cause.

GreNoLi

Benitez will be manager of everton next season, fact.

Mantis Toboggan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah well, of course it actually ended with his teams results, the interview was more symbolic of a manager under pressure than the cause.

That was his biggest mistake, he tried to take Ferguson on and failed miserably.

ricero

GreNoLi wrote: »

Benitez will be manager of everton next season, fact.

No chance, a lot of everton fans are very bitter to rafa especially after his "small" club comments during his time at lfc.

ricero

Tyson Fury wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah well, of course it actually ended with his teams results, the interview was more symbolic of a manager under pressure than the cause.

That was his biggest mistake, he tried to take Ferguson on and failed miserably.

He won something like 11 league games after that interview into the run in. Benitez at lfc lost the title to a sensational manchester united side which is a "fact"

population

Deleted User wrote: »

dogbert27 wrote: »

Every team Benitez has been with he has won honours and finished in the top 4.

On the other hand, before 2005 that silverware was UEFA Cups, Spanish titles and the CL.

Since the FA Cup in 06 you are talking about Italian Cups and the Intertoto (with the reigning CL champions). His tilt at a title at Liverpool ended with that car crash "fact" interview and his career seems to have stalled there too.

As for stuff like Madrid 8 Malmo 0...if that's considered a standout achievement in his time there, it says a lot.

He did well at NUFC mind you. And he seems likeable enough. I'm not certain he'd be suited to the Championship, but you'd expect him to do well

His career at Liverpool did not stall or end with the "fact" interview in fairness, as ill advised as it was. It ended when two money hungry idiots bought the club and did their utmost to undermine him and turn it into Roy Hodgson's Fulham.

If you are suggesting the modern game has passed him by, I'm afraid it doesn't really hold up. In the period of time you are talking about Inter won the World Club Championship and the Super Coppa, Chelsea the Europa League, Napoli the Coppa Italia and Super Coppa and qualified for the Champions league. His last season at Napoli was disappointing however as we missed out on Champions League on the last day and at Real his style of management was never going to work out really. Too many egos.

As regards Newcastle, I think he did well too. Two draws and three wins is not bad when you consider the previous results.

CSF

Had he been appointed earlier I'm sure they wouldn't have gone down. From a Villa perspective I'm definitely hoping he isn't there next year because while he wasn't near Real Madrid class, he is comfortably a cut above the Championship.

GreNoLi

CSF wrote: »

Had he been appointed earlier I'm sure they wouldn't have gone down. From a Villa perspective I'm definitely hoping he isn't there next year because while he wasn't near Real Madrid class, he is comfortably a cut above the Championship.

No one is in madrid's 'class'.

Footoo

GreNoLi wrote: »

Benitez will be manager of everton next season, fact.

Nope. Frank De Boer probably will.

LuckyLloyd

Oh the old 'facts' chestnut. The actual results from that season demonstrate Liverpool received a boost in terms of results the rest of the season. Utd just went on a ridiculous run of their own and won the league with 90 points.

But all that is long in the past and this EPL season has been restorative for the absence of inane managerial soundbites being characterised as advanced level 'mind games'. That media sideshow appeals to those of a limited mind. Hopefully Ranieri's dignity can become a template. The actual football is far more interesting than the nonsense narratives being created by sports 'journalists'. But I digress.

To address the 'Benitez is s fraud' stuff being badly sold in this thread in terms of more recent history: post Liverpool Benitez is a good, not great, manager. Did solid work at Chelsea and Napoli and was doing fine at Real before they did Real stuff. He got Newcastle playing better and tougher. I think if they can keep him on they'll likely reap the benefits next season.

Sunderland went on a great run and earned their place in the league through their own results. Fair play.

As a matter of curiosity ricero, LuckyLloyd, population...any of ye Liverpool fans?

Not that it invalidates an opinion. Far from it. And I certainly wouldn't say Benitez is a fraud...just that it seems like diminishing returns since his days at Valencia and Liverpool.

Despite the 8-0 over Malmo!

eigrod

population wrote: »

It ended when two money hungry idiots bought the club and did their utmost to undermine him and turn it into Roy Hodgson's Fulham.

Is right. Liverpool were 'un-manageable' at the time Rafa left. Hicks & Gillett's lies, incompetence and lack of their own funds had the club on the brink of liquidation.

ERG89

Liverpool fan might as well state it but he was on a hiding to nothing here long term.
Really hurt the club to lose Krul so early on, then the performances by Collocini & Taylor at cb were scandalous under McLaren. I felt Rafa's biggest improvement was defensively but it took a few games to achieve that. Shelvey was a very poor acquisition in hindsight & Townsend came well in the end but it was too late for them.
The club didn't have a regular goalscorer (sunderland always had thst in Defoe) despite Mitrovic being the best option he wasn't that good. There is this belief that most players go to the PL to join one of the big sides & you could REALLY see that at Newcastle. The like of Thauvin & Cabella are good players imo yet they never put in the shift so were shipped out but they couldn't ship out that negative culture at the club.

Flint Fredstone

dogbert27 wrote: »

Tenerife
Segunda División promotion: 2000–01

Valencia
La Liga: 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup: 2003–04

Liverpool
FA Cup: 2005–06
FA Community Shield: 2006
UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup: 2005

Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010

Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13

Napoli
Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Every team Benitez has been with he has won honours and finished in the top 4.

Benitez should be taking Madrid to the CL final. He could easily have gotten past Roma, Wolfsburg and would not have relied on an own goal to get past Man City.

It was Benitez who gave Real Madrid their highest ever goals scored in a CL game when the beat Malmo 8-0.

He was very harshly treated by a squad fearful their time was up. They now have a manager who will pander to them again.

He should be taking Madrid to the final? That's some statement to make :pac:

DeanAustin

He inherited a mess to be fair but, to be honest, he hasn't done a very good job to date.

McClaren won 21.5% of his Premier League games and got .86 points per game.
Rafa has won 22% and gotten 1.11 points per game. He's won only two games from 9.

It's not his fault and I'm sure, with time, he'd do a good job there. I understand he inherited crap and they've improved recently but if you'd told any Newcastle fan that when he got the job, he'd win only 2 of 9 games, they'd have been disappointed.

He was brought in to make an immediate impact and keep them up and he failed.

monkey9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh the old 'facts' chestnut. The actual results from that season demonstrate Liverpool received a boost in terms of results the rest of the season. Utd just went on a ridiculous run of their own and won the league with 90 points.

But all that is long in the past and this EPL season has been restorative for the absence of inane managerial soundbites being characterised as advanced level 'mind games'. That media sideshow appeals to those of a limited mind. Hopefully Ranieri's dignity can become a template. The actual football is far more interesting than the nonsense narratives being created by sports 'journalists'. But I digress.

To address the 'Benitez is s fraud' stuff being badly sold in this thread in terms of more recent history: post Liverpool Benitez is a good, not great, manager. Did solid work at Chelsea and Napoli and was doing fine at Real before they did Real stuff. He got Newcastle playing better and tougher. I think if they can keep him on they'll likely reap the benefits next season.

Sunderland went on a great run and earned their place in the league through their own results. Fair play.

The whole Liverpool fell to pieces after the press conference nonsense seems to stem from the fact that we drew nil nil away to Stoke the following evening. That's what people are basing their misguided opinion on.

jesus_thats_gre

DeanAustin wrote: »

McClaren won 21.5% of his Premier League games and got .86 points per game.
Rafa has won 22% and gotten 1.11 points per game. He's won only two games from 9.

When you look at all comps, McClaren has a higher win percentage of 25.3% versus 22.22%.

When in the PL or all comps, the number of matches lost is probably more revealing..

From a quick look at stats, McClaren lost 52.94% in all comps compared to 33.33%.

Newcastle under McClaren conceded 54 goals in 28 PL games (1.92 per game) versus 10 goal (1.11 per game).

I pulled those together very quickly so apologies for any mistakes.

The change in games lost and goal conceded suggests they improved in the right direction and but not by enough relative to other clubs.

LuckyLloyd

DeanAustin wrote: »

He inherited a mess to be fair but, to be honest, he hasn't done a very good job to date.

McClaren won 21.5% of his Premier League games and got .86 points per game.
Rafa has won 22% and gotten 1.11 points per game. He's won only two games from 9.

It's not his fault and I'm sure, with time, he'd do a good job there. I understand he inherited crap and they've improved recently but if you'd told any Newcastle fan that when he got the job, he'd win only 2 of 9 games, they'd have been disappointed.

He was brought in to make an immediate impact and keep them up and he failed.

Well 1.11 (and improving over the nine game stretch) would keep you up over a season. He didn't have enough time ultimately.

I'd be interested to see what he'd do over the course of a full season in the Championship. Been a long time since he managed at a similar level.

dogbert27

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

He should be taking Madrid to the final? That's some statement to make :pac:

Why, as pointed out the run to the final was relatively straight forward for Madrid with the squad they have.

Was it the tactical genius of Zidane that got them past Man City?

Madrid are only back in the race for La Liga in the last 4 or 5 weeks due to Barcelona having a wobble.

Harry Palmr

Reading Louis Taylors article in the Guardian it looks like he'll get the chance to reshape various aspects of the club - youth, medical, transfer policy so I think he should give it a go myself. He has little to lose with one season at that level.

dogbert27

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Reading Louis Taylors article in the Guardian it looks like he'll get the chance to reshape various aspects of the club - youth, medical, transfer policy so I think he should give it a go myself. He has little to lose with one season at that level.

I agree. If he brings them back up straight away then he is a success.

All the top positions around Europe are taken at this stage and there's no point going to a mid table team in the premiership.

That_Guy

I can't see Rafa staying on. It just doesn't fit the model of the club and how it's run.

He gave us some hope and had us playing well with A) crap players at his disposal and very little time in which to do anything.

That's all I can ask of him and I appreciate what he did and tried to implement in that short a window.

I said over in the Newcastle thread that it's a season of "what if's".

What if we had Rafa installed as manager after that thrashing by Chelsea instead of giving McClaren time over the international break to sort things out?

What if we stayed up. What would we potentially accomplish?

My grievances lie with Charnley and Ashley. A club run by idiots with short sighted gains who have rode the fans for years now.

Bringing in Rafa was a great coup for sure but the cynic in me thinks that they had to do something to get people to renew season tickets at a time when people were cancelling in their droves.

These mini gestures do not make amends for the way the club has been run by people who are so far removed from its fanbase.

Players are not exempt from criticism whatsoever. Spineless bottlers who bar one or two can fúck off and rot another club.

It's the hope that kills you with relegation battles but at least we had a glimmer of hope and showed some sort of fight. Can't blame Rafa for that at all.

Flint Fredstone

dogbert27 wrote: »

Why, as pointed out the run to the final was relatively straight forward for Madrid with the squad they have.

Was it the tactical genius of Zidane that got them past Man City?

Madrid are only back in the race for La Liga in the last 4 or 5 weeks due to Barcelona having a wobble.

He wasn't doing enough and he was sacked, that's why it's a ridiculous statement. To say "he could have been taking them to the final" is fine. To say "he should be taking them to the final" not so much.

DeanAustin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well 1.11 (and improving over the nine game stretch) would keep you up over a season. He didn't have enough time ultimately.

I'd be interested to see what he'd do over the course of a full season in the Championship. Been a long time since he managed at a similar level.

Agree with that but he was brought in to make an immediate impact and keep them up. He failed. 2 wins from 9 is poor against what was expected of him.

He could be great for them in the longer term if given the right tools. Whether he'll want to stay is another thing. If he doesn't, that just underscores the point that he failed in what he came in to do.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Agree with that but he was brought in to make an immediate impact and keep them up. He failed. 2 wins from 9 is poor against what was expected of him...

I kinda bought into the narrative that he did well.

I guess 2 wins from 9 isn't exactly stellar. Especially as afaik it was 0 wins against Villa, Norwich and Sunderland in that run, the crucial games.

Ironically, Sunderland have had that late late managerial change in recent years, with Avocaat and di Canio both coming in in March and keeping the club up.

That_Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

I kinda bought into the narrative that he did well.

I guess 2 wins from 9 isn't exactly stellar. Especially as afaik it was 0 wins against Villa, Norwich and Sunderland in that run, the crucial games.

Ironically, Sunderland have had that late late managerial change in recent years, with Avocaat and di Canio both coming in in March and keeping the club up.

While 2 wins from 9 isn't exactly a great stat, his first three games were Leicester, Sunderland and Norwich.

Latter two aren't exactly impeccable teams but the fragile mentality of the squad he inherited was always going to take time to come around to his way of thinking/playing style.

If we had two more games in the season, I'm sure we'd be safe because the players were showing a bit of fight and not rolling over/giving up.

Under McClaren we would have folded going a goal down. Those games v Man City/Liverpool. Coming behind and getting a draw gave us the catalyst to push on and get wins we so desperately needed. Ultimately, the pressure of the Vlla game was too much for the players who didn't turn up for whatever reason.

Like I say, 2 wins from 9 isn't a great stat but it doesn't tell the whole story of the shambles he was left with after McClaren.

~Rebel~

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

He should be taking Madrid to the final? That's some statement to make :pac:

To be fair it's not far off...not because of the greatness of the manager, but because of Madrid's path in the CL. I'd expect any half decent manager to have made this final with this run of fixture - just the luck of the draw. Every so often the fixtures throw you a handy run and all you can do is say thanks and stroll on through.

Flint Fredstone

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To be fair it's not far off...not because of the greatness of the manager, but because of Madrid's path in the CL. I'd expect any half decent manager to have made this final with this run of fixture - just the luck of the draw. Every so often the fixtures throw you a handy run and all you can do is say thanks and stroll on through.

He didn't do enough to keep his job so there is no way he should be in the final. If he was kept on he may be in the final.
It's the word "should" that I'm taking issue with.

Paully D

I'd lean more towards the side that think he did a good job, though I think there's people going too far to either side of the debate.

Good:

- Unbeaten in their last 5 games, with 2 wins and 3 draws, which is their longest unbeaten run since 2012. To put this run together given their situation deserves a lot of credit.

- The 1.11 points per game that they picked up would be good enough for 42 points over 38 games and easily safe.

- They only conceded 11 goals (a shade over 1 per game). Pre-Benitez, they were averaging almost 2 goals conceded per game. He certainly tightened them up despite having a very poor, injury hit defence at his disposal.

- Coming from behind to get results against sides like Liverpool and Manchester City. The players he used were clearly giving it everything for the cause and it's hard to ask for much more than that considering they way they were pre-Benitez.

- Acted quickly to drop as many players that weren't up for a fight as he realistically could so he wasn't afraid to bring the hammer down.

Bad:

- 0 wins against any of their direct relegation rivals, with a 1-1 draw against Sunderland, a 3-2 defeat against Norwich after equalising with 4 minutes left, and a 0-0 draw at a Villa side who had lost 11 games in a row.

- First half performances were continually lacking. He did well changing things up at half time, but there was an obvious issue with getting them going from minute one. Out of the 11 goals they scored under him, only 2 came in the first half.

- 11 goals scored in 9 games works out at a shade over 1 goal per game. With the attacking options they have, that's a poor return. If anything, he was a little bit too cautious.

- Constantly starting Cisse over Mitrovic deserves scrutiny.

- There was no one big performance that might have took them on another level, for example, Sunderland's 3-0 win at Norwich did it for them. Newcastle beat Swansea and Palace at home but that was expected and while the points v City and Liverpool were admirable, they didn't get the win that might have pushed them on.

- The bottom line is that he took over a side 1 point off safety with some extremely kind fixtures to play. 9 games later relegation is confirmed with Newcastle 4 points off safety.

Overall, it was a tough job in which he can't take any real blame for the relegation. However, I do take the point that he could have done a little better, especially against the other relegation threatened sides.

Really though a lot of it was more down to the fact that Sunderland went on an insane run to finish things off. They suffered 1 defeat in their last 10 games which is pretty astonishing for a side who spent so much time looking doomed. If Sunderland had failed to beat Chelsea or Norwich, as was largely expected, things would have looked so much different. But again that brings the argument that Benitez never really masterminded that big unexpected result nor got the win against one of those relegation rivals that was needed.

klose

Buying shelvey was simply bizzare( under mcclaren i am aware), the last player you would want near a team in trouble like that.

Hulk Hands

Deleted User wrote: »

As a matter of curiosity ricero, LuckyLloyd, population...any of ye Liverpool fans?

Not that it invalidates an opinion. Far from it. And I certainly wouldn't say Benitez is a fraud...just that it seems like diminishing returns since his days at Valencia and Liverpool.

Despite the 8-0 over Malmo!

This is it. Vastly diminishing returns since 2006, 10 years ago. Amazing the depths some will spring to to defend his record, using the Club World Cup to defend his disastrous time at Inter and an 8-0 over Malmo to justify his time at Madrid. At Chelsea he gained points in the league at a lesser rate than the very inexperienced Di Matteo before him, the Europa league with a supremely talented squad hardly saving what was an unhappy time for all involved. At Napoli he took over a side that finished second in Serie A, proceeded to finish 3rd and win a trophy, while things unraveled the following season before his departure. If that tenure is being heralded as a big success then the standards by which we're judging the once top manager have really slipped.

He hasn't had a truly successful stint post his first two seasons at Liverpool, albiet being put in some difficult circumstances. Rafa is what he is these days, a decent tactical manager who will make a side hard to beat, as evidenced by the past couple of months. His excellent tactical abilities in his prime could always gloss over his lack of motivational skills, and shady record in the transfer market. Those skills are no longer that effective in the more open modern game

eagle eye

Personally I thought that Rafa was the wrong man for the job at Newcastle. He has no experience of dealing with relegation since way, way back in his career in Spain. He is used to being with good teams and I had a feeling it wouldn't work out. I'll be surprised if he stays there next season and tbh I think he would do a good job at Everton.