Pro Help Needed! - 1st PC Build

Spurf

Hi Guys, I've been told that this is a good place to get advice for building a PC. I've been reading loads but need advise from some pro's that have experience building PC's for different budgets, I'd really appreciate the help.

I'm building my first PC and I need some clear advise and tips. Money is the main concern here and I need to squeeze as much as possible out of my budget. If you know the cheapest sites, special offers, bundles, let me know.

Important:
Moneys tight so the budget is Approx. €600 but could be a bit more if it justified. I want to build a PC that starts fast and has no bottleneck so that the CPU, GPU, motherboard, RAM and storage are balanced so they work together as best they can, e.g GPU can do more but CPU is too slow.

Questions:
1) Where to buy? Newegg? or Amazon.co.uk? Other sites?
2) Buy seperately or bundle e.g. Cpu, motherboards, ram bundle?
3) Intel or Amd? I think its probably going to be AMD. I was looking at FX-8350 and FX-9590. Good price/performance.
4) Nvidia or AMD? I think probably Nvidia? Should card be 1,2,3 or 4gb?
5) What motherboard? Can this help the PC speed?
6) How much RAM? I was thinking 16GB.
7) What storage configuration? HDD, SHDD, SSD? Should OS be on one and files on another?
8) How to have quick boot time?
9) What OS? I do not have. I was thinking Windows 8.1. Wheres the best place to get that?
10) Peripherals - Not needed.
11) If you need help building it, where are you based? I do not.
12) Do you need a monitor? Yes, but that will be should not be included in €600 PC budget. I'm looking for 21-24" 1080p, maybe Benq or Acer.
13) What will be the main purpose of the computer? Unreal engine 4 and 3d applications.



Let me know if you have any other questions, thanks for the help!!!

tuxy

Intel is so far ahead right now especially for gaming I'd recommend you go for an i5
How does this build look to you? It's over budget by €140 but has no compromises. If it's too far over budget I can suggest places you could save money but I'd recommend going for this if you can.

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Gigabyte-GA-B150M-D2V-Intel-B150-So-1151-Dual-Channel-DDR4-mATX-Retail_1026655.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i5-6500-4x-3-20GHz-So-1151-BOX_1010023.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/1000GB-Seagate-Desktop-HDD-ST1000DM003-64MB-3-5Zoll--8-9cm--SATA-6Gb-s_775365.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/240GB-ADATA-Premier-SP550-2-5Zoll--6-4cm--SATA-6Gb-s-TLC-Toggle--ASP550S_1011565.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/16GB-G-Skill-Value-4-DDR4-2133-DIMM-CL15-Dual-Kit_1013784.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/4096MB-PowerColor-Radeon-R9-380-PCS--Aktiv-PCIe-3-0-x16--Retail-_1006136.html
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/500-Watt-Enermax-MaxPro-Non-Modular-80-_998657.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fractal-Design-Core-1100-Micro/dp/B00KXXZS74/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1457552044&sr=8-2

Dropping to 8gb of ram which is still perfect for games and a gtx 950 2gb graphic card would save about €70
Taking the ssd out of the build would save €65 and you could add one at a later date.

Spurf

Hi Tuxy,

Thanks for getting back to me, That's helped alot!

OS:
What OS would you suggest? And wheres the best place to get a copy?

CPU/GPU:
I've been trying to choose the best performing/priced CPU & GPU using the links below, thats why I mentioned the fx-9590 (CPU Mark 10,249). Why would you recommend the i5 6500 (CPU Mark 7044) over that.
CPU - cpubenchmark (high end)
GPU - videocardbenchmark (high end)

GPU Manufacturer:
Is there any difference in quality in chosing Powercolor over MSI or Sapphire?

AMD (Compute units) vs Nvidia (Gameworks):
I've read a bit about game engines starting to use AMD's compute units and was wondering will that be more common in the future? But also I know that although gameworks effects performance it have some cool features on Nvidia GPU's. I also know AMD launched an open source version of this.

RAM:
I think I could stick with the 16gb as I'm hoping the case from my old pc. Whats the next motherboard up from that? I want to somewhat future proof it and would like an extra slot for ram.

SSD:
Whats your opinion on SSD's? Are they needed? Whats the main benefit, are you suppose to run the OS on that and have files on a standard 1TB HDD? I could get a larger HDD instead or even another one.


Thanks.

Digital Solitude

Haven't looked at tuxys build because links on mobile, but i5s are leagues ahead of 9590s in gaming terms, even the 5 year old Sandy bridge i5s are faster than AMDs newest chips in gaming terms

8gb RAM is enough

i5 6400 €170
H150 board €50
8gb RAM €50
1tb HDD €50
Case €50
500w PSU €60
GTX950 €160
Total €590

Have an idea of tuxys from replies but guessing this is similar?

I like Windows 10 as an OS, with DX12 its probably recommended

SSDs are handy as hell, really fast boot up and loading times, but not essential so I've left one out here.
To get an SSD you'll have to drop the GPU to a GTX750, which is a bit of a leap. You can add a €60 SSD at any time

TerrorFirmer

The 9590 is a heap of crap, barely beats an i3 in a lot of games. It also throttles horrendously due to it's insane heat, and on that note, it also requires a water cooler or very high end air cooler just to run. Not sure what AMD were smoking when they released it, it's an absolute joke and has to be one of the worst processors in history.

Intel i5 is the only solid choice really at the moment.

tuxy

You will want wndows 10 for directx 12 support
http://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-professional-oem-key/

Although AMD CPUs may get higher scores in some synthetic benchmarks their single core performance is awful. Many games still put most of the load onto a single core and will be limited by how fast that core is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKR04WMP9sw

I picked the 380 just because it performs better than the gtx 960 in most games. There is very little in it though and nvidia do have the advantage in directx 11 as their driver is multi threaded with less cpu overhead. It's looking like AMD may have the advantage in directx 12 but it's too early to say. The only real difference with the make of the card is different cooling solutions.
The r9 380 and gtx 960 are both good and in the same price category so look up some reviews and see which you are happiest with.

As for gameworks, it's a mess and even people with gtx 980 ti(€650 card) tend to turn it off. It tanks performance for both AMD and Nvidia.

If the case you want to use fits a full size atx board then go for this.
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Gigabyte-GA-B150-HD3P-Intel-B150-So-1151-Dual-Channel-DDR-ATX-Retail_1016207.html
It has extra ram slots and pci slots. The only reason to spend a lot of money on a motherboard is if it has some special feature or connector that you need or if you want to overclock.

I'd highly recommend an ssd. It usually brings boot time down to 10 seconds or so and makes windows much more responsive. 240gb is enough to fit windows and some of your favorite programs and games, everything else you can put on the 1tb mechanical drive.

Eoinmc97

People are discussing the possibility of the FX line-up with DX12 here, however, no studies have been done on the FX series' performance. The i5 from Intel is a good bet to go as games usually take advantage of their strong Single/Dual core performance. The FX line really only shine when all 6/8 CPUs are used.
On the topic of DX12, AMD is showing a clear win with the ability to use A-Sync in games. Hitman and Ashes of the Singularity show positive increase in performance for AMD cards. The 390X currently outperforms the 980Ti in Hitman now. nVidia are still strong in DX11 though, which is the majority of games. Gameworks however is a shambles and most turn it off, as it drastically reduces performance for little gain.

IMO the best value builds today are Intel CPU and AMD GPUs. But Digital's build fits your budget reasonably well, with scope for upgrading.

Spurf

Hi Tuxy,

Thanks for the reply. I'm getting an idea of what I want to build now.

OS:
Are those keys legit?

CPU/GPU:
Would the Gigabyte GA-B150-B150 HD3P Intel So.1151... you mentioned support overclocking? Should I consider spending a but more and get the i5-6600k? Also was thinking the same about the R9 380X over the 380.

RAM:
I'm not 100% on dual vs quad channel ram. The motherboard above supports dual channel, does that mean it will only use two of the slots? Also does the cpu have to support quad channel to use all 4 slots?

Miscellaneous:
Are there any other things that I will need for the build? What are the things that I might forget that will effect my budget? E.g. thermal paste, software....

Monitor:
What kind of monitor would you suggest? Maybe a 24" acer or benq 1080p?

tuxy

No problem good to hear it's been helpful!

The windows keys are a bit of a grey area. They are Microsoft MSDN keys which Microsoft say people should not resell so it's not totally above board but they do work. Windows will be activated as genuine and all updates will work.

You would need a more expensive z170 motherboard to overclock.
Something like this
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Gigabyte-GA-Z170-Gaming-K3-EU-Intel-Z170-So-1151-Dual-Channel-DDR4-ATX-R_1029086.html
Then you need a k processor as you said. The k CPUs do not come with a cooler so you would need to buy this.
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-Evo-Tower-Kuehler_777730.html
Coolers will come with thermal paste either pre applied or in a small tube but it's a good idea to buy an extra tube it can come in handy if you ever want to reseat the cooler.
All in you're looking at €100 extra for a 6600k over a 6500.
A i5 6500 is 3.2 ghz and you can expect an overclock of 4.5 ghz from a 6600k
Here you can see what difference that will make in games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxncqbe1H8

You would have to look up benchmarks to see if the 380x is worth it over the 380. I think it's about 15% faster.

dual and quad channel memory is a way of increasing memory bandwidth.
Quad channel is only available for very high end systems so I wouldn't worry about it.

Skylake supports dual channel memory and to take advantage of it you just have to install memory in pairs. So dual channel will be activated if you install either 2 or 4 memory sticks but not active if you install 1 or 3 sticks. I don't think it make much of a difference in games but you might as well buy memory in pairs so it's there and will provide a small performance boost to the system.

23" or 24" is the perfect size for 1080p I have a benq that I'm very happy with. I've never used an acer.

I can't think of anything else you would need.

raindog.promo

Hi, sorry to butt in on this thread, I found the recommendations in the second post to be very helpful.
I'm buying some of the items recommended to put together my own pc build.
They are as follows:

http://s117.photobucket.com/user/tomred_pics/media/Order.png.html?o=0



I have my own PC tower case and I'll be using a HDD I already have.
I'd be grateful if you could advise whether I need anything else and whether there's anything else I need to know with regards to putting the parts together once they arrive. Will the paste used on the CPU be included?

First time doing my own build from scratch if that isn't completely obvious!

Poncke

About the Windows keys, it's not a grey area, its piracy

http://www.zdnet.com/article/to-fight-piracy-microsoft-tightens-msdn-and-technet-terms-again/

Windows 10 cost 135 euro, 25 dollar doesn't sound very legal to me. I am sure the keys will work but you'll also risk ending up with an unsupported OS if MS decides to tighten the terms even further.

tuxy

raindog.promo wrote: »

Hi, sorry to butt in on this thread, I found the recommendations in the second post to be very helpful.

Good to hear
I can't think of anything else. I'd try to fit in an ssd into your budget if you can. But as I said earlier that can be added at a later date.
Just watch a few youtube vids while you wait for the parts to arrive. You can't got too far wrong and we're hear if you're unsure about anything.

edit: There will be paste pre applied to the stock intel cooler so no need to buy any.

Digital Solitude

raindog.promo wrote: »

Hi, sorry to butt in on this thread, I found the recommendations in the second post to be very helpful.
I'm buying some of the items recommended to put together my own pc build.
They are as follows:

http://s117.photobucket.com/user/tomred_pics/media/Order.png.html?o=0



I have my own PC tower case and I'll be using a HDD I already have.
I'd be grateful if you could advise whether I need anything else and whether there's anything else I need to know with regards to putting the parts together once they arrive. Will the paste used on the CPU be included?

First time doing my own build from scratch if that isn't completely obvious!

Is this for gaming only or editing? No need in 16gb RAM for gaming, get an SSD with the funds

Spurf

Hi Tuxy,

What Benq monitor are you using? What model(s) would you suggest and where's a good place to get them?

Thanks.