DNA Testing

LadyLu

Has anyone on here used dnaireland for testing what breed their dog is made up of?

I normally wouldn't be bothered since a child we have always has mongrel... but in August we adopted a 10 month old "Boxador" (Boxer/lab cross) and since then we have had a few vet visits to have him Neutered, chipped and boosters etc and the vet asked us again what breed did you say.. we said boxer/lab which is what we were told, but he shook his head and said Mastiff?

In Ireland is a cross breed with a controlled breed required to wear a muzzle? he is 17 months now and about 6 stone of pure muscle, the Gardai have slowed down by us walking on a couple of occasions and drove on, his lower jaw and jowls are very mastiff looking but not bull mastiff more so Boerboel/South African Mastiff so as his mannerisms and traits

Previous owner said he was bred by a vet in Kilkenny and was working breed lab (which is a bigger lab than a city lab) and a boxer...
Because im not sure about the Muzzle thing... that would be the only reason to have his DNA tested... or does anyone know where to get DNA tested?

I'm not sure if I can upload photos of him?

DBB

I'm pretty sure the DNA testing on offer is pretty unreliable... I know a few people who've had it done,with some rather mental outcomes, their dogs supposedly made up of some very, very unlikely breeds!
The chances of you having a Boerbel cross are very slim, as they are very rare in Ireland. It's more likely you're looking at a cross with another Mastiff, or maybe even an American Bulldog type.
Working-line labs may be a little smaller than show-line labs in stature, but are certainly smaller in terms of build, being more athletic. Show-line breeds (which is what I assume is meant by "city" lines) are invariably bigger than their working counterparts, certainly in all breeds that spring to mind right now!
You can't post pics with your low post count, but I'll pm you now and see what we can do so we can take a goosey

LadyLu

DBB wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the DNA testing on offer is pretty unreliable... I know a few people who've had it done,with some rather mental outcomes, their dogs supposedly made up of some very, very unlikely breeds!
The chances of you having a Boerbel cross are very slim, as they are very rare in Ireland. It's more likely you're looking at a cross with another Mastiff, or maybe even an American Bulldog type.
Working-line labs may be a little smaller than show-line labs in stature, but are certainly smaller in terms of build, being more athletic. Show-line breeds (which is what I assume is meant by "city" lines) are invariably bigger than their working counterparts, certainly in all breeds that spring to mind right now!
You can't post pics with your low post count, but I'll pm you now and see what we can do so we can take a goosey

Thanks a mil for your help i won't shell out €99 just yet then on a DNA test

"IF" he is or might be crossed with a listed breed do you know if he should be muzzled?
I'm hoping not...
sorry for the low post count i don't be on a whole lot... yeah if you PM me i can send you a photo

sillysmiles

My understanding is that if he is a cross of a restricted breed then he must also be in compliance of restricted breeds laws.
Based on that I'd be reluctant to get him tested and go with he a a lab/boxer cross.

DBB

LadyLu wrote: »

Thanks a mil for your help i won't shell out €99 just yet then on a DNA test

"IF" he is or might be crossed with a listed breed do you know if he should be muzzled?
I'm hoping not...
sorry for the low post count i don't be on a whole lot... yeah if you PM me i can send you a photo

Unfortunately, all strains and crosses of the listed breeds must be muzzled/on lead by law. Your dog may well not contain any of the listed breeds in his DNA, but unfortunately it generally comes down to the opinion of an expert witness, often the dog warden or vet, as to what mix a dog is when it comes to the crunch. Whilst some are really good at it, it is pretty subjective, and as we all know, some are pathetically poor when it comes to discerning what breeds are in a dog that comes to their attention.
And that last line is usually the clincher... Usually, if you don't bring yourself (or rather, your dog) to the attention of the Warden or provoke complaints, you'll generally be OK. It probably depends quite a lot on what county you live in too, some being a little more evangelical than others when it comes to the listed breeds.

LadyLu

sillysmiles wrote: »

My understanding is that if he is a cross of a restricted breed then he must also be in compliance of restricted breeds laws.
Based on that I'd be reluctant to get him tested and go with he a a lab/boxer cross.

Oh god i would have thought that would be more of a reason to have him tested? lol so that the next time the Gardai or someone ask i can say well he is defo a certain breed?
Or play dumbass and go with "well we were told he is a boxador" :P

DBB

sillysmiles wrote: »

Based on that I'd be reluctant to get him tested and go with he a a lab/boxer cross.

When the poop hits the fan, it doesn't matter what mix the owner says the dog is. If the warden has a reason to talk to you, and forms the opinion that the dog is a cross or strain of one of the listed breeds, then you'll have it all to do to convince a judge otherwise... If it comes to that.

LadyLu

DBB wrote: »

When the poop hits the fan, it doesn't matter what mix the owner says the dog is. If the warden has a reason to talk to you, and forms the opinion that the dog is a cross or strain of one of the listed breeds, then you'll have it all to do to convince a judge otherwise... If it comes to that.

Thankfully it has never come to that, the Gardai have drove on in both cases but when people say "Oh he is gorgeous what breed is he and we say boxer/lab they look at us as if "are you sure?"

DBB

Okay folks... Do your worst! This is Ladylu's dog









I'm seeing Rottie, or Bull Mastiff.
Not seeing any Boerboel though. Nor any of the Bull breeds. Nor Boxer
He's gorgeous, whatever he is!

LadyLu

DBB wrote: »

Okay folks... Do your worst! This is Ladylu's dog

He's gorgeous, whatever he is!

Yeah I think he is a handsome chap, but im bias... so to spend money on DNA testing or not is the question...

DBB

LadyLu wrote: »

Yeah I think he is a handsome chap, but im bias... so to spend money on DNA testing or not is the question...

I'm pretty sure that there have been previous cases (admittedly, they may have been in the UK... I can't remember for sure) where DNA tests have been discounted because at breed level, they're just not terribly reliable.
If you have the cash, by all means go for it... But I wouldn't lean too heavily on it as evidence!

piperh

Can't help with the breed but he's gorgeous :-)

sillysmiles

I think a bit of rottie in the face. But other than that - no idea

tk123

HIS PAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He doesn't look like my friend's Boerbel anyways

DBB

I wonder what brought the big white chest to the mix? I know Mastiffs and Rotties often have some white there... But now I'm wondering if there isn't some Boxer in there too!
The more I look at him, the more Rottie-esque I think he is.
Where's Andreac when we need her?!

kylith

I know a guy in he UK with a known cross and he got DNA testing done to test it and it came back as it should have. However, as said above, I've heard of results coming back with some very unlikely breeds in the mix.

Knine

I'm seeing Dogue de Bordeaux cross in there & that would explain the white on his chest. Similar size/colouring. Could be some lab in there too

Actually having another look I would not be surprised if he was a Rottie/ DDB cross

LadyLu

I think maybe he is crossed with everything bar a bus... which is making me more intrigued/nosey to have DNA done lol

SillyMangoX

Definitely seeing some mastiffy/molosser type breed in there, head looks a little wide to be boxer though! Whatever he is he's absolutely gorgeous

Zapperzy

To throw a spanner into the mix he looks very like a st Bernard cross belonging to a friend of mine, think her dog also has rottie or bullmastiff in him too.

LadyLu

Zapperzy wrote: »

To throw a spanner into the mix he looks very like a st Bernard cross belonging to a friend of mine, think her dog also has rottie or bullmastiff in him too.

Well thats a new one lol

borderlinemeath

Lady Lu, don't take this the wrong way, but if you got rid of the big chain, (in the first pic) I think it would go a long way to a warden/garda paying heed to what's on the end of it. At the end of the day, if you're going to dress your dog in what's perceived as "hard man" gear, people will assume it's a "hard man" type of breed.

I'm thinking Rottie/Boxer cross from the big neck!

Edited to add: I once fostered a rottie/lab cross, the rescue called it a boxer/lab cross but he was defo rottie/lab, a big softie, like most rotties. I'm assuming they didn't want to scare potential adopters off with a restricted breed in the mix. Plus he was a big black dog - which never helps when it's a rescue dog.

my3cents

Another one in the mix that I've seen create some big hybrids is Leonberger.

We had a Rottie X Bernese that looked very similar. Rottie X Leonberger could look similar.

Knine

my3cents wrote: »

Another one in the mix that I've seen create some big hybrids is Leonberger.

We had a Rottie X Bernese that looked very similar. Rottie X Leonberger could look similar.

Leonberger's carry a lot of coat & definitely do not have the build or head of a mastiff plus there is not many of them in Ireland

LadyLu

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Lady Lu, don't take this the wrong way, but if you got rid of the big chain, (in the first pic) I think it would go a long way to a warden/garda paying heed to what's on the end of it. At the end of the day, if you're going to dress your dog in what's perceived as "hard man" gear, people will assume it's a "hard man" type of breed.

I'm thinking Rottie/Boxer cross from the big neck!

Edited to add: I once fostered a rottie/lab cross, the rescue called it a boxer/lab cross but he was defo rottie/lab, a big softie, like most rotties. I'm assuming they didn't want to scare potential adopters off with a restricted breed in the mix. Plus he was a big black dog - which never helps when it's a rescue dog.

No at all I'm not going to take that the wrong way , but i'm also not trying to "Dress him like a hard man type breed" for one im a girl and not a hard girl and two he is over 6 stone and when he wants to try drag me to another dog that chain is all i have to hold him back, I wouldn't trust his collar (in the other photos) to stay closed under such force which could result in him getting loose and knocked down...

since having him a puppy socialising in the kennel club in swords (worst move ever) he thinks he has to socialise with every dog he meets and looses the plot when we don't stop, most other dog owners oblige... he is still a pup and still learning - he is much better on a leash now but until he is a lot better he will remain on the chain for my own piece of mind.

kylith

If he's pulling like that you're better off with a head collar or front attach harness. In the long term all the chain will do is damage his throat.

Ms2011

I think you have exactly what you were told you have, a Lab Boxer mix.
People see a blocky head & immediately think bull breed or Rottie but Labs have that same square typed head. His jowls look completely Boxer to me. As for his size if anyone has ever seen a Liger (Lion Tiger Hybrid) the offspring grow considerably larger than either parent.
The thing about crossing 2 pure breeds is that it's like shuffling a deck of cards, you can't be sure which genes will jump to the fore & which will be more suppressed. Some outcomes can be really surprising.

Knine

Ms2011 wrote: »

I think you have exactly what you were told you have, a Lab Boxer mix.
People see a blocky head & immediately think bull breed or Rottie but Labs have that same square typed head. His jowls look completely Boxer to me. As for his size if anyone has ever seen a Liger (Lion Tiger Hybrid) the offspring grow considerably larger than either parent.
The thing about crossing 2 pure breeds is that it's like shuffling a deck of cards, you can't be sure which genes will jump to the fore & which will be more suppressed. Some outcomes can be really surprising.

I don't agree at all. That dog definitely has some mastiff in him. Boxers & Labs are a lot smaller. There could be boxer but I am also guessing mastiff from the sheer size of his head. There is a gene in the hybred cats mentioned that stops the pure Lions or Tigers growing that is missing in these cross breed cats.

FrostyJack

He looks like a boxer to me with something else thrown in. I seen a lab boxer cross and he looks very similar. I used the dna Ireland recently. And it came back with random dogs. None of which have the features he has. He looks like a lab cross and that is the dominant (level 2) result but we put that in the description so am paranoid that was just taken and other dogs thrown in.

LadyLu

FrostyJack wrote: »

He looks like a boxer to me with something else thrown in. I seen a lab boxer cross and he looks very similar. I used the dna Ireland recently. And it came back with random dogs. None of which have the features he has. He looks like a lab cross and that is the dominant (level 2) result but we put that in the description so am paranoid that was just taken and other dogs thrown in.

Yeah i follow the boxer lab crosses on instagram and they are all VERY different looking dogs obviously depends what gene is more dominant...
yeah on the DNA site they said you can send a photo of the dog if you want but that to me defeats the purpose a little... might look into it a bit more, i've been speaking with a Boerboel group in the UK they said he defo not Boerboel but they have given me a site they use for DNA testing.... there is obviously just something more there in Hunters make up thats throwing everyone...

borderlinemeath

LadyLu wrote: »

No at all I'm not going to take that the wrong way , but i'm also not trying to "Dress him like a hard man type breed" for one im a girl and not a hard girl and two he is over 6 stone and when he wants to try drag me to another dog that chain is all i have to hold him back, I wouldn't trust his collar (in the other photos) to stay closed under such force which could result in him getting loose and knocked down...

since having him a puppy socialising in the kennel club in swords (worst move ever) he thinks he has to socialise with every dog he meets and looses the plot when we don't stop, most other dog owners oblige... he is still a pup and still learning - he is much better on a leash now but until he is a lot better he will remain on the chain for my own piece of mind.

As Kylith says, you'll find him much easier to manage if you use a front attach harness, like a perfect fit or freedom harness. Using a front attach harness in conjuction with training should get some great results. I wouldn't be mad on a head collar for a dog that looks to have a short enough snout - they can ride up and rub the eyes and damage them. Plus the harnesses look great

http://freedomnopullharness.com/Freedom-No-Pull-Dog-Harness/

http://www.dog-games-shop.co.uk/perfect-fit-fleece-dog-harness/40mm-harness.html

LadyLu

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As Kylith says, you'll find him much easier to manage if you use a front attach harness, like a perfect fit or freedom harness. Using a front attach harness in conjuction with training should get some great results. I wouldn't be mad on a head collar for a dog that looks to have a short enough snout - they can ride up and rub the eyes and damage them. Plus the harnesses look great

Oh we had a harness which i thought looked real comfortable but the trainer in Puppy Socialising told us to get rid of it that harnesses are only for sleigh dogs, they teach and help a dog to pull which is what we didn't want.... maybe i'll try one again....

borderlinemeath

LadyLu wrote: »

Oh we had a harness which i thought looked real comfortable but the trainer in Puppy Socialising told us to get rid of it that harnesses are only for sleigh dogs, they teach and help a dog to pull which is what we didn't want.... maybe i'll try one again....

Harnesses that attach solely from the back between the shoulder blades won't help with pulling at all. But he will damage his neck muscles from continued pulling on a collar. Both the attachments above are for front attach/duel attach harnesses.

ShaShaBear

ERMAGERD, those EARS!

Cherry Blossom

There are different types of harnesses, it's quite possible that the one you have is the wrong type for your purpose.

Ms2011

Knine wrote: »

I don't agree at all. That dog definitely has some mastiff in him. Boxers & Labs are a lot smaller. There could be boxer but I am also guessing mastiff from the sheer size of his head. There is a gene in the hybred cats mentioned that stops the pure Lions or Tigers growing that is missing in these cross breed cats.

Don't both Boxers & Labs have Mastiff in their make up though.
Traits that are recessive in both breeds could be highlighted in a cross perhaps causing him to LOOK more 'Mastiffy'?

Dubl07

He's gorgeous and his nails are amazingly well trimmed. Do you do them yourself?

Knine

Ms2011 wrote: »

Don't both Boxers & Labs have Mastiff in their make up though.
Traits that are recessive in both breeds could be highlighted in a cross perhaps causing him to LOOK more 'Mastiffy'?

Google lab cross boxers. Look totally different.

Ms2011

I did, saw at least one that looked similar to the op's dog only brindle.
Said they can weigh up to 70 lbs too.

aonb

I can really see a boxer there - arent we funny the way some can see 'this', and others see 'that' - the white chest definitely sways the boxer arguement I think!

OP he is an absolute beauty.

Could you get in touch with the breeder - there arent that many vets in kilkenny! - and ask him to confirm boxer/lab cross? If you got a piece of paper on his veterinary headed paper, with words to the effect that he, a vet, bred this dog from a boxer/lab mix, that might put people off your back viz the restricted breed issue?

Also, where do you live - in a town/city/village where you are walking your dog where there are people who would complain if they thought he was restricted breed? Or in the country, where it wouldnt be an issue? Presumably you always have your dog on leash in any case? It might be a good idea to get a nice big basket muzzle to start to train him to get him used to it since he is still young - then it wont be an issue if it suddenly becomes a requirement...

LadyLu

aonb wrote: »

I can really see a boxer there - arent we funny the way some can see 'this', and others see 'that' - the white chest definitely sways the boxer arguement I think!

OP he is an absolute beauty.

Could you get in touch with the breeder - there arent that many vets in kilkenny! - and ask him to confirm boxer/lab cross? If you got a piece of paper on his veterinary headed paper, with words to the effect that he, a vet, bred this dog from a boxer/lab mix, that might put people off your back viz the restricted breed issue?

Also, where do you live - in a town/city/village where you are walking your dog where there are people who would complain if they thought he was restricted breed? Or in the country, where it wouldn't be an issue? Presumably you always have your dog on leash in any case? It might be a good idea to get a nice big basket muzzle to start to train him to get him used to it since he is still young - then it wont be an issue if it suddenly becomes a requirement...

Thanks - I've contacted previous owners waiting on reply...
I live in a town yeah he is always on a lead bar he is on the park on front of our house chasing tennis balls - no road sense - no one has ever complained in fact quite the opposite they stop us to ask what breed he is and that he is a good looking boy...

no i'm not going to muzzle him if I don't have to... I'll do some homework first, I've already been told here he looks like a hardmans dog on his lead i think he would look like an even harder mans dog with a muzzle to lol if there is mastiff in him I would put my wages on it he is Boerboel South African Mastiff (as i know of 4 in the area) and they aren't required to be muzzled... The only reason i started the tread was to ask about the DNA testing... seems not a lot of people are too keen on it's unreliable results... so with that in mind i'll try make contact with the vet to confirm

I've been in contact with the Boerboel Uk Group over night and they said "The bullenbeisser which is the extinct ancestor which makes up 70% of the boxers genetics, was also used in the creation of the Boerboel and a few other breeds, if our dog is a mixed breed they would say the fact his head looks similar to a boerboel is due to this common ancestor and also by pure chance. The longer mussle of the lab and the square head of the boxer seem to have blended to similar features. and that I would need to get his dna analysed to be sure but they reckon the initial boxer x lab was correct"

LadyLu

Ms2011 wrote: »

Don't both Boxers & Labs have Mastiff in their make up though.
Traits that are recessive in both breeds could be highlighted in a cross perhaps causing him to LOOK more 'Mastiffy'?

Yes you are correct... ive been doing a bit of googling lol they do through ancestry...The Boxer is part of the Molosser dog group, developed in Germany in the late 19th century from the now extinct Bullenbeisser, a dog of Mastiff descent, and Bulldogs

So maybe his features are by pure chance, like a throwback...

DBB

The problem for owners of any Mastiff breed, or crossbreed or strain thereof, is that they can potentially all be included as restricted due to the "Bandog" category. I'm pretty sure that at least some wardens interpret the legislation this way, rightly or wrongly (remembering that some wardens also classify Belgian Shepherds as a "strain" of German Shepherd... A good trick considering the BSD pre-dates the GSD!)

HarrietD

I recently got our rescue puppies DNA tested with DNA ireland. Purely for curiosity. Results were surprising but made sense. I will PM you with photos of the pups (2 brothers ) and the results if you like. I found it to be a very professional service.

LadyLu

Just been chatting to previous owner mammy was a golden lab and daddy was a boxer... she is trying to find photos she received from breeder on an old phone

LadyLu

Dubl07 wrote: »

He's gorgeous and his nails are amazingly well trimmed. Do you do them yourself?

No never touched them must just be from all his walks and running about lol

LadyLu

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As Kylith

Just saying thanks for the links went to pet store today and got the halti harness which leads from the front my boyfriend said he walked very well on it I'll be walking him on it myself tomorrow be interesting to see the difference... he wasn't overly impressed with it at the start but then forgot about it

mymo

I have recently met a guy with the biggest labs I ever saw, and he told me her brother was 2inches taller!
This girl was easily one and a half times the size of any lab I've seen, the guy said they were from field stock, and while very tall and extremely well muscled she was slim and gorgeous. Different looking to the ordinary labs you see, and I'm in south Kilkenny!
She was the sweetest calmest lab, and such a pleasure to meet.
I could see a dog like her crossed with a big boxer could produce a very big cross.