PAYG gas meter-forced to use it

padyjoe

I've moved into a new apartment which has a payg gas meter installed. I didn't know about and don't want it because inconvenient, expensive and there's 9 euro owed on it already. Asked whether can go back to bill pay. No, the landlord is not in the position of changing it. Would I be right asking for €150-200 deduction because I was on bill pay it'd be cheaper by that amount. I'm a respectful person, I've always paid my bill but this is annoying!

snubbleste

No.

Gatling

You've no legal right to make deductions to the rent due

padyjoe

Hm, lovely and I have the fr1gging right to pay the bill and at least by 150 euros out of my pocket! I'm getting fed up with tenant's no rights, only dues, I'm paying the money and landlords laughing all the way to the bank. Or at least, is there any way around it? Don't tell me it's my responsibility to pay the amount owed on the card as well while I wasn't there.

Tiddlypeeps

Is it written in your lease that you have to use the PAYG meter? If it isn't then I would think it's none of the landlords business what provider you go with for your gas, and you can just choose one that doesn't use PAYG meters.

testaccount123

Assuming you have a standard lease its none of your landlords business who you buy services for your home from. Go ahead and change providers.

athtrasna

padyjoe wrote: »

I've moved into a new apartment which has a payg gas meter installed. I didn't know about and don't want it because inconvenient, expensive and there's 9 euro owed on it already. Asked whether can go back to bill pay. No, the landlord is not in the position of changing it. Would I be right asking for €150-200 deduction because I was on bill pay it'd be cheaper by that amount. I'm a respectful person, I've always paid my bill but this is annoying!

Buyer beware, or in this case renter beware. You failed to check out the energy situation before moving in so it has now come back to haunt you. It's not the landlord's fault you didn't do your research.

padyjoe

Ok, thank you! I got a bit carried away, I'm sorry! No, it's nothing about the payg meter in the lease. But if I want to change it, there's a charge of an approx. 200 euro for going back to a bill pay meter. Catch 22 there: if I go ahead and pay the charge, I lose the 1st saving, if it's unchanged, I lose money again. As of today, the payg meter staying in place. I've never thought it would be a problem for me one day! :-(

padyjoe

athtrasna wrote: »

It's not the landlord's fault you didn't do your research.

Oh, come on, I have had enough getting a place at all, the last few weeks were exhausting on body and mind and especially this one never crossed my mind.

godtabh

padyjoe wrote: »

Oh, come on, I have had enough getting a place at all, the last few weeks were exhausting on body and mind and especially this one never crossed my mind.

Regardless you picked this place and its up to you how you proceed. All the choices were yours.

Tiddlypeeps

Have you stopped around to see if any other providers can do a better deal than the current one while using the meter? If the current provider are already the cheapest then unfortunately your only options are to either continue to use the meter or pay to have it removed and then pay to have it put back in when you leave which will probably cost way more than you will save.

spaceHopper

Be careful here too, there may still a meter somewhere which is the true meter and any difference between it an the pay as you go one is on you. Make sure there isn't a master meter or get a reading!

Victor

Who is the account with and what rates are being charged? Is it a genuine Gas Networks Ireland meter? Are you happy that you have sole control of the supply?

While some pre-pay meters are expensive, some charge fairly normal rates.

athtrasna wrote: »

Buyer beware, or in this case renter beware. You failed to check out the energy situation before moving in so it has now come back to haunt you. It's not the landlord's fault you didn't do your research.

Harsh, but true.

REXER

athtrasna wrote: »

Buyer beware, or in this case renter beware. You failed to check out the energy situation before moving in so it has now come back to haunt you. It's not the landlord's fault you didn't do your research.

I guess that its also not the landlords fault that he didn't disclose the facts either! :rolleyes:

L1011

REXER wrote: »

I guess that its also not the landlords fault that he didn't disclose the facts either! :rolleyes:

This wouldn't be something in critical need of disclosure. I don't expect to be told what colour the walls are painted when I can clearly see it on the viewing.

REXER

L1011 wrote: »

This wouldn't be something in critical need of disclosure. I don't expect to be told what colour the walls are painted when I can clearly see it on the viewing.

Sure, sure, not a bother, you'll be grand so!

Gatling

REXER wrote: »

Sure, sure, not a bother, you'll be grand so!

Not exactly a major issue though

L1011

REXER wrote: »

Sure, sure, not a bother, you'll be grand so!

How much detail do you expect a landlord to go in to then?

A PAYG meter is something visible on the wall. Not hard to miss.

REXER

L1011 wrote: »

How much detail do you expect a landlord to go in to then?

A PAYG meter is something visible on the wall. Not hard to miss.

How about the same level of detail as goes into the contents/inventry list for the house?

Surely that would be reasonable, including a list of known/outstanding issues with the dwelling? Hell, why so defensive on this issue? Is it that you like surprises?

L1011

REXER wrote: »

How about the same level of detail as goes into the contents/inventry list for the house?

Surely that would be reasonable, including a list of known/outstanding issues with the dwelling? Hell, why so defensive on this issue? Is it that you like surprises?

I'm not being defensive - I'm pointing out that you have ridiculous expectations.

A PAYG meter is not a "known issue" with a house, either.

REXER

L1011 wrote: »

I'm not being defensive - I'm pointing out that you have ridiculous expectations.

A PAYG meter is not a "known issue" with a house, either.

Its a material fact, like there is no satalite or cable, there is no landline, the heating does not work, the sink leaks etc.

L1011

REXER wrote: »

Its a material fact, like there is no satalite or cable, there is no landline, the heating does not work, the sink leaks etc.

You have a very poor concept of what are and aren't serious issues

The first three are basically irrelevant compared to the last two. A PAYG meter goes in with the first two.

The heating not working would make the house legally unrentable.

If you can come up with a coherent argument as to why a landlord should be responsible for telling someone something they can see at a viewing, come on with it - this one isn't sensible or going anywhere.

REXER

L1011 wrote: »

You have a very poor concept of what are and aren't serious issues

The first three are basically irrelevant compared to the last two. A PAYG meter goes in with the first two.

The heating not working would make the house legally unrentable.

If you can come up with a coherent argument as to why a landlord should be responsible for telling someone something they can see at a viewing, come on with it - this one isn't sensible or going anywhere.

My list was never meant to be "sensible" or exhaustive, rather it was meant as just a few examples!

So I will ask the question again.

How about the same level of detail that goes into the contents/inventry list is used for a list of the general condition of the house, the facilities and utilities?

Surely that would be reasonable.

After all, its fairly often that we see tenants here on Boards with all manner of complaints about houses/apartments/cottages/hovels with regards to heating/mold etc etc etc. (Please bear with me as I am not trying to generate a full list of possible issues here)

L1011

REXER wrote: »

How about the same level of detail that goes into the contents/inventry list is used for a list of the general condition of the house, the facilities and utilities?

Surely that would be reasonable.

In the case of nearly every example you've given, it would be unnecessary and unreasonable hand-holding.

cerastes

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Is it written in your lease that you have to use the PAYG meter? If it isn't then I would think it's none of the landlords business what provider you go with for your gas, and you can just choose one that doesn't use PAYG meters.

You need the owners permission to change the meter though, the tenant may be able to go with any provider, assuming they can bill through that meter, which the landlord/owner has complete authority over getting changed or not.

testaccount123 wrote: »

Assuming you have a standard lease its none of your landlords business who you buy services for your home from. Go ahead and change providers.

As I said, if the provider accept the use of that meter, as above, the meter cant be changed without permission.

padyjoe wrote: »

Ok, thank you! I got a bit carried away, I'm sorry! No, it's nothing about the payg meter in the lease. But if I want to change it, there's a charge of an approx. 200 euro for going back to a bill pay meter. Catch 22 there: if I go ahead and pay the charge, I lose the 1st saving, if it's unchanged, I lose money again. As of today, the payg meter staying in place. I've never thought it would be a problem for me one day! :-(

The thing is, who is this prepay meter with? if its directly with a service provider, then it may be no difference to a credit meter billing, ie Bord Gais charge exactly the same rates for their prepay as for their credit bills.
Who is the meter with?
There is probably a good reason the meter is in, ie hard experience on the landlords part.
Figure out your use including the daily amount due for standing charge which is the same as a credit meter and then top it up for that amount, whats the big deal?

RebekahD

I have a payg gas meter, and its not in plain sight, when first viewing the property I mistook it for simply a cupboard.
The next viewing I checked in it mainly looking for damp and discovered the meter !
To use it we first had to collect a card from a centra shop nearly half an hours walk away, come back put it in the machine to register it, then go back to the shop to top the card up as it couldn't be topped up at same time !
Not a lot of shops do the gas top ups as do electric so it can be quite annoying, but hopefully that may change.
I tried getting it removed but was told I would have to go through the main gas company, simply because its in a cupboard, despite the cupboard being easy to remove !

Walter H Price

Regardless of what is wrong threatening to or actually withholding rent is grounds for eviction - put all of the problems in writing with a date that you want a response by and if you dont get it tell him you will have to go to the PTRB as heating not working or being fixed etc is a big issue.. A PAYG meter is not really a big issue, I get its annoying paying the standing charge but many landlords have gotten caught by unpaid utility bills, its not a personal reflection on you, just a landlord looking out for themselves

athtrasna

L1011 wrote: »

You have a very poor concept of what are and aren't serious issues

....

If you can come up with a coherent argument as to why a landlord should be responsible for telling someone something they can see at a viewing, come on with it - this one isn't sensible or going anywhere.

Please leave the moderating to the mods. Thanks

Victor

L1011 wrote: »

A PAYG meter is something visible on the wall. Not hard to miss.

Many meters are in cupboards or dedicated housings.

REXER wrote: »

Its a material fact,

Bus there are no mandatory disclosure rules.

like there is no satalite or cable, there is no landline, the heating does not work, the sink leaks etc.

The regulations do not require the first three, but do require the last two.

the_syco

REXER wrote: »

Its a material fact, like there is no satalite or cable, there is no landline, the heating does not work, the sink leaks etc.

Have seen people move in, and not think about broadband until settled.

The PAYG meters are usually installed if the person is in arrears, or possibly a previous tenant did it without the landlord's knowledge thinking that they were getting "a good deal".

cerastes

Walter H Price wrote: »

Regardless of what is wrong threatening to or actually withholding rent is grounds for eviction - put all of the problems in writing with a date that you want a response by and if you dont get it tell him you will have to go to the PTRB as heating not working or being fixed etc is a big issue.. A PAYG meter is not really a big issue, I get its annoying paying the standing charge but many landlords have gotten caught by unpaid utility bills, its not a personal reflection on you, just a landlord looking out for themselves

Witholding rent, as you say is grounds for eviction, or starting the process.

PRTB though? why? the heating is working, the OP just didnt think to ask what kind of meter, this does not cause the heating to not work.

Also, the standing charge is exactly the same in daily rate for a pre pay meter with a major utility as it is for a bill thats issued from a credit (regular) meter. The only difference is, the daily amount owed for the standing charge is deducted regularily, daily.

The OP has failed to come back and say what type (who owns) the meter, is it Bord Gais? electric Ireland? or someone else?

Once they know that, they can enquire themselves that what Ive said is accurate.
This in fact gives them some kind of control thats visible to them if they want to monitor their own usage and keep bills down, but the best way to do that is be concious of use.

OP can you confirm the above? who is the account with? and where is it located relevant to the property?