Hope of owning family home

intheclouds

lawred2 wrote: »

That calculator input is after tax income

Still haven't been told whether the 88k is gross or net

I would guess its gross - who states their post tax salary when referring to it? I dont even know what mine is - Id have to get a calculator out. Actually I dont even know what my pre-tax salary is, Id have to check a payslip.

lawred2

intheclouds wrote: »

I would guess its gross - who states their post tax salary when referring to it? I dont even know what mine is - Id have to get a calculator out. Actually I dont even know what my pre-tax salary is, Id have to check a payslip.

lol

hark at moneybags

Is there equity in any of the properties?
Would you be able to clear the negative equity on any of them with your savings?

Until the properties are sold and the mortgages are cleared it will be difficult to borrow more.

stoplooklisten

What ever happened to the couple in the tent that where homeless who also owned 10 houses? Perhaps you could see how they resolved their situation and perhaps get some good tips.

intheclouds

lawred2 wrote: »

lol

hark at moneybags

The opposite actually, its so crap I live in denial.

Mrs OBumble

intheclouds wrote: »

I would guess its gross - who states their post tax salary when referring to it?.

People who are looking for social housing. (Seriously - eligibility is based on post-tax salary.

There's also the matter of whether it includes rent from the existing properties, and child benefit.

Sleepy

Macha wrote: »

According to this Irish Times calculator, a household income of 88k with 2 kids means OP's income is higher than 90% of Irish households.

You must remember, however, that this figure includes large numbers of younger singles, OAPs and the unemployed who would drag average incomes much lower than the "average income of a married couple with 2 kids".

PhoenixParker

I'm deeply mistrustful over every statistic I've ever seen about household income. I can find no credible source for household incomes in Ireland.

The closest I can find is this:

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?Maintable=CIA01&Planguage=0

which suggests at total household income for everyone in the state of

Total Household Income (Euro Million) 117,380

Allowing for 1658243 households (2011) census, that gives an average household income of E70,785

For Dublin the total household income is 38,492 million with 468122 household, giving an average of E82,226.

There will be extremes at both the very top and very bottom which will skew those averages but I find it very difficult to believe that the 90th percentile for household income is at E88K based on those figures.

blacklilly

GenGenie wrote: »

Just two

I think you're being very naïve here. You've 3 mortgages, 2 of which are interest only = Big risk.

Your combined salary isn't fantastic, any level of stress test on your income and current liabilities and you would not be in a great position. Add children (dependents) to that and your risk rating increases.

You need to get real here and perhaps seek professional financial advice, certainly disposing of one of your properties will help reduce your exposure to risk.

Remember no one is entitled to a mortgage, yet it seems to be a general consensus here that one is.

blacklilly

Also I'd guess the combined stated salary is gross - it's too neat a number to be net

lawred2

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'm deeply mistrustful over every statistic I've ever seen about household income. I can find no credible source for household incomes in Ireland.

The closest I can find is this:

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?Maintable=CIA01&Planguage=0

which suggests at total household income for everyone in the state of


Allowing for 1658243 households (2011) census, that gives an average household income of E70,785

For Dublin the total household income is 38,492 million with 468122
household, giving an average of E82,226.

There will be extremes at both the very top and very bottom which will skew those averages but I find it very difficult to believe that the 90th percentile for household income is at E88K based on those figures.

The extremes at the top will skew the numbers much more than the extremes at the bottom

lawred2

blacklilly wrote: »

Also I'd guess the combined stated salary is gross - it's too neat a number to be net

well our household income is just over 140k gross and one house is more than enough to make a good dent in that...

athtrasna

How many stay on topic requests do I need to make. Plenty of other fora to discuss household income averages

lawred2

athtrasna wrote: »

How many stay on topic requests do I need to make. Plenty of other fora to discuss household income averages

In this case - asking whether the household income is gross or net is relevant I would have thought..

blacklilly

lawred2 wrote: »

In this case - asking whether the household income is gross or net is relevant I would have thought..

But it's not a case of posters just asking, there's now a whole other conversation regarding average household income happening.

pwurple

I think some people are being a little rough on OP.

I bought a flat before i was married and had any notion of children. I was luckier than op maybe, as mine is not in negative equity now (and i lived in it for years), but we made a similar choice at a similar point in our lives.

And i don't think being held accountable for choices her husband's brother made is fair either. She had no hand in those choices, but is living with the consequences (along with her children).

The OP has not been back to answer any questions (and i kinda see why!) but if those mortgages are servicing themselves with rent, then maximise that income, and try to save the rest or borrow on a higher interest rate is my suggestion.

groovyg

pwurple wrote: »

I think some people are being a little rough on OP.

I bought a flat before i was married and had any notion of children. I was luckier than op maybe, as mine is not in negative equity now (and i lived in it for years), but we made a similar choice at a similar point in our lives.

And i don't think being held accountable for choices her husband's brother made is fair either. She had no hand in those choices, but is living with the consequences (along with her children).

The OP has not been back to answer any questions (and i kinda see why!) but if those mortgages are servicing themselves with rent, then maximise that income, and try to save the rest or borrow on a higher interest rate is my suggestion.

I think what's irked a lot of posters here was the op asked whether their only option of getting a "family home" was to go on the housing list even though she already owns and rents out an apartment and her husband owns a few houses with his brother. No wonder this country is fu**ed, there was fool on the 6 one news earlier from the ESRI saying the central bank rules were bad for house prices. If people want house prices to increase well then wages are going to have increase as well but that's for another ESRI report:rolleyes:

The_Conductor

groovyg wrote: »

I think what's irked a lot of posters here was the op asked whether their only option of getting a "family home" was to go on the housing list even though she already owns and rents out an apartment and her husband owns a few houses with his brother. No wonder this country is fu**ed, there was fool on the 6 one news earlier from the ESRI saying the central bank rules were bad for house prices. If people want house prices to increase well then wages are going to have increase as well but that's for another ESRI report:rolleyes:

I think there is a fundamental disconnect in the psyche of the ESRI (the government, IBEC and other groups). They see an economy growing at 10% per annum- and clap themselves on their backs- saying, look aren't we great guys- the economy is in a fine form, there is no reason not to expect house price inflation commensurate to the increases in economic activity.

The look at the figures- and see record levels of car sales- and sales of luxury goods- and record breaking traffic jams trying to get into or out of Dublin.........

However, the simple and irrefutable fact- is a significant driver of the economic expansion is the tapered wage expectations in the private sector- alongside the continuation of cuts in the public sector.

A very small subsection of the population are seeing the fruits of the boom- the average worker certainly is not (which is partially why we've ended up without a government after the last election).

Special interest groups lobbied on behalf of all their constituencies- however, the only implement at the disposal of the vast majority of the Irish electorate- was, and is, the ballot box.

The OP- is in a pretty awful situation. Sure she owns an apartment- her hubby 2 houses and a site- and they have a 40k nest egg sitting in the bank. People here are castigating her for suggesting her only manner of getting a 'family home' is to apply for social housing (I know this comment was somewhat flippant- but for arguments sake lets take it at face value).

Depending on when the 3 properties were purchased- its entirely probable that there is significant negative equity associated with the 3 properties. In addition- the joint ownership of the two rural properties with the OP's brother-in-law makes disposal of them a very difficult proposition.

The site and the 40k nest egg- are two assets which may be used to offset the negative equity in the other properties- however- the OP despite these headline assets- could very well be in a negative position when their assets and liabilities are set down in a balance sheet and tallied.

If she were to sit down- do an exercise- and come to an arrangement with the banks and with her brother-in-law to get rid of the assets and associated debts- leaving her as close to a neutral position as possible- would people then look on her proposal in a more favourable light?

A couple with young children earning 80k between them- could well be paying 30k in taxes and levies- and then over 15k in childcare from their net income. If you factor in the cost of running a car for work purposes into the equation- despite their headline gross pay- they may actually be better off simply staying at home and claiming social welfare..........

The Irish system, insofar as there ever was a system, is broken. That a family with 3 properties, a 40k nest egg, a site- and gross income of 80-85k could potentially be better off on social welfare- and were they to sit down with MABS and come to an arrangement with their lenders- could in all honesty qualify for social housing etc- is both bizarre- but actually true.

We can only pull figures from thin air- but its a reasonable assumption that the 40k and the site- might not be enough to cover the negative equity in the apartment- never mind the 2 rural properties- which means the OP could in actual fact be in a worse situation than someone living in social housing who has no assets whatsoever to their names...........

Capitalism is a cruel cruel thing- and when you add dollops of socialism into the equation- you can end up with some completely bizzare scenarios before too long.

Butters1979

pwurple wrote: »

I think some people are being a little rough on OP.

I bought a flat before i was married and had any notion of children. I was luckier than op maybe, as mine is not in negative equity now (and i lived in it for years), but we made a similar choice at a similar point in our lives.

And i don't think being held accountable for choices her husband's brother made is fair either. She had no hand in those choices, but is living with the consequences (along with her children).

The OP has not been back to answer any questions (and i kinda see why!) but if those mortgages are servicing themselves with rent, then maximise that income, and try to save the rest or borrow on a higher interest rate is my suggestion.

This isn't her being held accountable for her husband's brothers choices. This is her and her husband being held accountable for her and her husbands financial burden. Banks look at married couples as one financial entity. They have loans on properties they aren't repaying, yet want another loan and don't seem to understand why they can't get one.

There's nothing wrong with buying an apartment then looking to buy a house later in life, but expecting to buy houses as an investment, not being able to pay back the mortgages then looking for another mortgage on top of that is delusional. They're getting rental income of houses they have not paid for, the bank has paid for them. Yet they seem to think it's all terribly unfair.

That's the issue people are having here. If it was her or her husband's decision and if it was right or wrong before hindsight is irrelevant. They're in debt and want more loans in a climate that is very risk adverse. Like I said they need a reality check.

This isn't the banks been horrible to the little man forcing them to live in a straw hut in Longford. This is the banks being rightly prudent so this couple don't end up getting all their properties repossessed and leave the bank hundreds of thousands down which will be passed on in interest rates to those who don't believe they should have 4 mortgages.

mahoganygas

On paper OP could be in a worse situation than someone on social housing today.

She holds several assets (property) and substantial liabilities (mortgages).
She is probably in the red. But this is based on today's market values.

Incredibly she is insisting on holding onto her poor investments and further leveraging herself with yet another mortgage!

She wants to gamble a further few hundred thousand but she's not the one on the line when it goes pear shaped again. The banks are. Need I remind people who suffers when Irish banks make bad lending decisions?

I'm amazed at the amount of posters supporting this reckless behavior!

OP you have no right to own a larger home. Take responsibility for your actions.

OfflerCrocGod

I think the problem people had with the post wasn't how the OP could be in this situation. I think it was that she couldn't see the obvious. If you have negative equity in three properties it's clear why a bank wouldn't allow you to take on another mortgage. There was no need for the post asking for reasons.

johnnyskeleton

McGrath5 wrote: »

I find it utterly depressing that a couple with 2 properties, on a combined in income of €88k with savings of €39k are having thoughts about going on a housing list.

That's Ireland - a huge segment of the population think that if they want something and can't easily buy it from their own money the state should just magically give it to them! Some just dont want to touch their own money at all.

Is the €88k income composed of rental income from the properties? If not you may be hit with a nasty surprise revenue bill later on.

Sorry OP but you should move into the apartment that you own and be happy theres a roof over your head. Social housing is for people with a genuine need for accommodation, not for people who already own a property portfolio for which they are receiving rent.