NRAI & Irish Shooters Digest article.

Rimfire Shooter

Did anyone see the F Class article recently in the ISD by Joe Melia.

Seems NASRPC aren't the only ones having "problems" ???????????????

Rimfire Shooter

274 views & not one comment.

NASRPC thread is hopping

Deaf git

I found the ISD to be a profoundly boring publication. I downloaded the sample issue and found reading it good for getting off to sleep tbh.
Havent looked at it since...

Rimfire Shooter

While I agree the ISD can be a bit boring there are those who say the same & worse about here

Maybe nobody here reads the ISD? Only us oldies

Cass

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

274 views & not one comment.

NASRPC thread is hopping

There are thousands of members in the NASRPC. The majority of whom take part in club, national, international and/or some combination of the three. As such there is a much more engaged level of interest.

Compare that to the 400 or so affiliated members of the NRAI, and the 80-90 or so active club, national and international shooters. Not one of whom, that i know, reads the ISD.

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

While I agree the ISD can be a bit boring there are those who say the same & worse about here

Sorry you feel that way and that all topics are not riveting enough for you. Perhaps try start a thread on a topic that interests you and will get some heated debate going.

Maybe nobody here reads the ISD? Only us oldies

No one i know reads it. Oldies included.

You've obviously read the article so what is it about? Instead of being annoyed or confused as to why no one has replied here, tell us what it is, and what about it bothers you.

Deaf git wrote: »

I found the ISD to be a profoundly boring publication. I downloaded the sample issue and found reading it good for getting off to sleep tbh.
Havent looked at it since...

+ a million.

Rimfire Shooter

TBH, nothing bothers me about it. At best I'm an interested observer of target shooting politics in Ireland. I've been involved in local gun club politics for years which is every bit as bitchy as what appears to be happening in target shooting.

The main gist of the article was a report on smone lads who went to a comp on UK and ended up with what appears to be a whinge that lads are not allowed compete on an Ireland team due to what appears to be the actions of the nrai. There's a cll for an agm as none has been held in a while.

Nothing in it bothers me. Like yourself in the NASRPC thread I'm an interested observer at this stage.

Cass

Paper never refuses ink.

Lads will complain and moan, its part and parcel. The NRAI is no more immune to it than any other group. However, and as i said above, depending on size of the group the noise from it can be a whisper or a full on shouting match.

As for an AGM, there was one held not a week ago. New committee, captains, etc. all elected.

Rimfire Shooter

Cass wrote: »

Paper never refuses ink.

Lads will complain and moan, its part and parcel. The NRAI is no more immune to it than any other group. However, and as i said above, depending on size of the group the noise from it can be a whisper or a full on shouting match.

As for an AGM, there was one held not a week ago. New committee, captains, etc. all elected.

Or a screen print (or whatever the equivalent is here)

And the ones who usually do the most complaining are those who actually do the least amount of real work in my experience.

So, he got what he wanted, and agm

I wonder was he happy at the end of it?

Cass

Doubt it, he was not present.

Rimfire Shooter

Cass wrote: »

Doubt it, he was not present.

So after that article he didn't bother to attend

badaj0z

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

Did anyone see the F Class article recently in the ISD by Joe Melia.

Seems NASRPC aren't the only ones having "problems" ???????????????

For the benefit of us who have note seen the article, can you post a summary or an image? If I recall correctly, the NRAI did a UDI on the SSAI which eventually led to the shut down of the SSAI.

Sparks

Wow. That's so far from being a correct recollection that it's almost funny. The SSAI winding up and founding FISA as its replacement was covered on here. It very definitely wasn't down to the NRAI.

badaj0z

Sparks wrote: »

. It very definitely wasn't down to the NRAI.

The NRAI started the rot. Your own organisation(NTSA) added to the problem.You had been agitating to leave the NRPAI/SSAI for some time but had not been able to do it until the advent of the Practical pistol guys gave you the excuse you needed. The ISSF rule about not allowing Target Shooting groups to be part of any organisation that included such practical shooting groups was used to gain an exit. Whatever happened to FISA?
If we had any organisation for shooters at National level we would not have needed to found the Sports Coalition last year.

Rimfire Shooter

badaj0z wrote: »

For the benefit of us who have note seen the article, can you post a summary or an image?

I could scan it & post it here but there may be copyright problems. I also can't post links.

I'll read it again and summarise the main points

Sparks

badaj0z wrote: »

The NRAI started the rot.

Nope. The NRAI might have inherited the chair of the SSAI after the mess got made by others before them, but that doesn't mean they started the rot, it means they were stuck with trying to fix it.

Your own organisation(NTSA) added to the problem.

By leaving several years earlier and never having anything to do with the SSAI after that?

You had been agitating to leave the NRPAI/SSAI for some time but had not been able to do it until the advent of the Practical pistol guys gave you the excuse you needed. The ISSF rule about not allowing Target Shooting groups to be part of any organisation that included such practical shooting groups was used to gain an exit.

(a) It wasn't an excuse, it was a directive from ISSF, passed at an ISSF AGM and had been used to suspend several other ISSF NGBs recognition before that point (see the notes in the earlier thread)
(b) The NTSA leaving allowed the Practical Pistol guys into the SSAI and that gave them more representation than they had at that point. So a net gain. And you think that's a bad thing?
(c) All this happened years before the worst of the mess. So sorry, nothing to do with the NTSA, they were well out of it.

Whatever happened to FISA?

The NASRPC's turn running it came around and then suddenly, with there being work to do instead of politics, all the interest seemed to evaporate and it died a death. The DoJ never even heard from them (I asked the DoJ - they never even got a phone call; apparently people expected the DoJ to call them or something).

If we had any organisation for shooters at National level we would not have needed to found the Sports Coalition last year.

(a) We have several organisations for shooters at national level already; and
(b) we didn't need to found the Sports Coalition last year and most of the NGBs didn't sign up and mostly the heavy lifting was done by the others while the SC mostly made some pretty hairy messes for the others to clean up

badaj0z

Sparks wrote: »

Nope. The NRAI might have inherited the chair of the SSAI after the mess got made by others before them, but that doesn't mean they started the rot, it means they were stuck with trying to fix it.

Your memory is very selective Sparks. The first fissure in the organisation was caused by the people who founded the NRAI wanting to go their own way. This was causing dissent into which they stepped. Is it coincidence that the NRAI people became influential in the SSAI and then were instrumental in closing it down?

Sparks wrote: »

By leaving several years earlier and never having anything to do with the SSAI after that?

You were preaching that the NTSA should have left the SSAI even when you were the PRO for the SSAI. The NTSA did not go along with you then and you had to wait for the “directive” before you did your UDI.

Sparks wrote: »

(a) It wasn't an excuse, it was a directive from ISSF, passed at an ISSF AGM and had been used to suspend several other ISSF NGBs recognition before that point (see the notes in the earlier thread)
(b) The NTSA leaving allowed the Practical Pistol guys into the SSAI and that gave them more representation than they had at that point. So a net gain. And you think that's a bad thing?
(c) All this happened years before the worst of the mess. So sorry, nothing to do with the NTSA, they were well out of it.

It was definitely an excuse. All of your arguments about doing a UDI had failed up to this point so it was manna from heaven for you.

Sparks wrote: »

(a) We have several organisations for shooters at national level already; and
(b) we didn't need to found the Sports Coalition last year and most of the NGBs didn't sign up and mostly the heavy lifting was done by the others while the SC mostly made some pretty hairy messes for the others to clean up

Rubbish. Most of the big organisations did sign up, NARGC, NASRPC, NSAI, ICPSA,WA, Bullseye, plus the dealers and range operators.

Changing the subject Sparks, why do you never distinguish between your role as a moderator and your role as an individual? Look at Cass’s posts if want to learn how it is done. His default posts are as a moderator and he often points out that, as such, he has no vested interests and is not promulgating his own opinions. When he does post his own views on a subject, he makes it very clear that he is so doing. You do not do this. This can only confuse casual observers who think that all your posts are “ex cathedra” so to speak. All the rest of us are used to it.

Sparks

badaj0z wrote: »

Your memory is very selective Sparks. The first fissure in the organisation was caused by the people who founded the NRAI wanting to go their own way.

Sorry, no. The people who founded the NRAI came to the NRPAI and asked to be included. The NRPAI turned them down. I know because I was there at that meeting. And we've talked about this before on here, go look for the NRAI-v-LRRAI thread.

This was causing dissent into which they stepped. Is it coincidence that the NRAI people became influential in the SSAI and then were instrumental in closing it down?

Bollocks. One NSAI/NASRPC chap wasn't elected to sit on the FCP like he thought he would be and ran around writing open letters decrying things and demanding he be put on the table, even though the rules for the vote were ones he wrote. That's how the NRAI wound up representing the SSAI on the FCP, and the chair of the SSAI went the same way.

You were preaching that the NTSA should have left the SSAI even when you were the PRO for the SSAI.

You know I was never the PRO for the SSAI, right? That I never, ever held a committee position in either the SSAI or the NRPAI, that I was offered one and flat out turned it down? I went to one NRPAI meeting as a last minute sub for an NTSA rep who'd been unable to attend at literally the 11th hour and I left that meeting thinking some deeply unkind thoughts about the degree of professionalism involved.

The NTSA did not go along with you then and you had to wait for the “directive” before you did your UDI.

Actually, that's bollocks as well. I wasn't even on the NTSA committee when they left the SSAI. I'd stepped down as secretary to go get married almost a year earlier.

I wholeheartedly think it was the right decision - the crap that was going on then (before the NRAI chairmanship btw) was so bad that it was going to blow up in our faces (and I turned out to be right and we've never had a penny of state funding since that blowup happened).

It was definitely an excuse. All of your arguments about doing a UDI had failed up to this point so it was manna from heaven for you.

Again, you don't seem to know the facts or dates of these events, so you're again wrong here. In fact, if you ask the head of the IPSA, the first phone call I had with him we talked about this and I was very clear even then; if the ISSF ever looked at the SSAI's setup with the IPSA on the panel, then they'd derecognise the NTSA, the recognition would go in full to the ICPSA and we would be prevented by ISSF regulations from ever getting it back. We'd have to roll into the ICPSA and we'd be out of the SSAI either way.

The NTSA leaving as it did was the cleanest solution for everyone.

Rubbish. Most of the big organisations did sign up, NARGC, NASRPC, NSAI, ICPSA,WA, Bullseye, plus the dealers and range operators.

NASRPC and NSAI are the same people. I've heard odd things about the ICPSA membership from ICPSA people (like them never attending meetings). And both the dealers and range operators formed second representative associations when joining and most of those we spoke to over the year had never heard of those associations when the SC was formed.
Meanwhile other groups like the IDS, NTSA, NRAI, CAI, IFA and others never signed up.

Changing the subject Sparks

Yeah, don't bother. If there's a mod note to be made, we do it in bold and flag it. If it's in a thread we're posting in, we ask the other mods to look at it from outside. Frankly, you get a higher standard of having your own say in here than you do in almost all of the other shooting bodies, including the SC.
And frankly, looking at the numbers of people posting, things discussed and general stats, it looks like we're doing it right.

Hell, even a few of our regular critics tend to show up here to sell their stuff in the for sale forum because of this.

But all that said, shall we get back to the topic at hand? You've got a whole feedback forum that we don't mod if you have a problem you want to discuss about here, and a dispute resolution process we don't control if you have a specific complaint. But this thread got started for a whole other topic...

badaj0z

Sparks wrote: »

Bollocks.


that's bollocks

Bit different from your usual language Sparks?

Cass

Thread closed pending review.

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