All 1916'd out

Junkyard Tom

RobertKK wrote: »

Most people are opposed to it, on both sides of the border.

Wrong.

captbarnacles

I thought 1916 being shoved in my face every day would drive me mad but I've seen so little of it.

Until the dummies in my sons school sent him out to the yard for the flag thing with no coat and he had a cold already. He shivered uncontrollably then threw up everywhere. Now he is on three different antibiotics. Grrrr. AND it is a protestant school of all places.....

Galwayguy35

We must be the only country in the world where people are bitching about remembering men and women who fought and died for our country.

Move up to East Belfast and have the butchers apron hanging outside your house if ye despise the Republic and it's history that much.

Glenbhoy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country in the world where people are bitching about remembering men and women who fought and died for our country.

Move up to East Belfast and have the butchers apron hanging outside your house if ye despise the Republic and it's history that much.

Nope, pretty much every country in the world has the same divide of opinions (bar north Korea, where they may exist, but it would be unwise to express them).
Being a nationalist nordie, who grew up during the 80's and 90's, I was pretty republican and the rising will always stir emotions.
At this stage of my life and it may be an age thing, but I certainly question the worth of the sacrifice, alternatively it may be as a result of spending 20 yrs in dublin, either way, I think the ireland of today was not what the martyrs had in mind.

Glenbhoy

captbarnacles wrote: »

I thought 1916 being shoved in my face every day would drive me mad but I've seen so little of it.

Until the dummies in my sons school sent him out to the yard for the flag thing with no coat and he had a cold already. He shivered uncontrollably then threw up everywhere. Now he is on three different antibiotics. Grrrr. AND it is a protestant school of all places.....

It's unlikely that the lack of a coat for 20 mins had any bearing on the worsening of his cold and subsequent transformation from viral to bacterial issue.
Perhaps you should look at whether or not the child was in a fit state to attend school? On attendance at school, it's reasonable for the teachers to assume that the child is fit and able to participate in all school activities unless told otherwise.

LordSutch

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country in the world where people are bitching about remembering men and women who fought and died for our country.

Yeah, if only it were that simple. 1916 has always had a bit of a stigma attached to it (as well as all the retrospective adulation & hullabaloo).

The men & women you speak of (The Rebels) were despised at the time of the rising, they were geered at and spat at by Dubliners in the aftermath of all the devastation < and that stigma has always been there in the background, albeit behind all the adulation heaped upon the "Heroc figures" who decided that they would organise a violent insurgency, whithout the knowledge or the consent of the Irish People.

Maybe that's why there is a bit of an undercurrent of bitching behind all the shiny glitz, questionmark?
...anyway, whatever your view is, I am certainly maxed out on the wall to wall Rising stuff :cool:

Today 'St Patrick's Day' is a proper day to celebrate being Irish.

wokingvoter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's pretty self-explanatory, but 'tis someone who wishes Ireland was still under British control, plenty of that type on this thread.

Should they not be allowed on the forum because braonain finds it a tad offensive?

The Backwards Man

I hope there will be a commemoration of the heroic efforts of the keyboard warriors of 2016 in a hundred years time. Bravely insulting those who don't share their opinions from the trenches of their Mammy's boxrooms.

Stojkovic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's pretty self-explanatory, but 'tis someone who wishes Ireland was still under British control, plenty of that type on this thread.

While you most likely buy an English rag of a newspaper and follow and English football team.

Rule Britannia.

osarusan

The whole thing has passed me by so far, without making any effort to avoid it really.

I didn't even need to find out where not to be or what not to watch - it just never appeared in my life at all.

Permabear

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tomwaterford

Permabear wrote: »

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Have your friend only got RTE and only watch it after 10pm??

Harry Palmr

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

tomwaterford

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

It's tradionally held on the Easter Sunday as its a bank holiday weekend??

Though if your promoting another bank holiday I'm all for it

Stojkovic

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

All to do with the Moon.

Harry Palmr

But its not exactly 100 years...this sort of thing annoys me! :pac:

Permabear

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

It's pretty self-explanatory, but 'tis someone who wishes Ireland was still under British control, plenty of that type on this thread.

So, yes - anyone who disagrees with you, then?

Skylinehead

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

Probably because they didn't want to give us another day off!

Radiosonde

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

Because it famously began on an Easter Monday, and is known as the Easter Rising. Therefore, it makes as much sense to mark its 100th anniversary this Easter as it would on April 24th.

Wibbs

LordSutch wrote: »

The men & women you speak of (The Rebels) were despised at the time of the rising, they were geered at and spat at by Dubliners in the aftermath of all the devastation

That notion is much more to do with British propaganda at the time, the reality was very different and as these things are, more complex. If said individuals were so despised then surely their executions would have been celebrated? I mean if a bunch of Jihadi's attacked Dublin and were all killed in the shoot out or subsequently shot by firing squad, precious few would mourn them even in the liberal Ireland of today. People wouldn't out of nowhere be calling for a Muslim state that's for sure. Instead that response back in 1916 hardened existing public resolve against the crown even further and lost the country for England.

There had long been a build up of Irish resentment to London. And for damned good reasons. These rebels didn't lick it from a stone. Indeed if you read more on Irish men in the British services of the time fighting in France, there is the quite common feeling about that after the war Ireland will be given more of a say in it's own government and they were in some way "paying for it" with their service(of course many were there for purely practical financial reasons too. Just like in WW2). Some sort of a devision was almost inevitable, the 1916 stuff focused and accelerated it and the British response in the aftermath guaranteed it. As in any conflict nobody comes away smelling of roses.

As for the celebrations? Meh, easily avoided if that's your thing.


My maternal grandmother and her brother were involved in it on the support lines periphery so there's some connection and family history with it. My paternal line would have mostly been in the don't really care, or this is bad for business camp. Funny enough my grandmother, though a lifelong supporter of Irish independence and a religious woman, was not happy at all with how much influence the Catholic church came to have.

Arkady

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What I want to know is why the centenary is being marked on the wrong date.....it happened on April 24, 1916, yet the hoopla is on 27 March....hmmmm.

How else would Enda ensure he'd get a seat up on the lorry trailer outside the GPO ?

Caoimhgh1n

I hear more about Donald Trump than 1916, and that is the honest truth. It is extremely interesting and it won't be happening again for another 100 years.

Charles Babbage

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, yes - anyone who disagrees with you, then?

Disagreeing with you is one thing, supporting a genocidal supremacist empire is another, the latter is morally untenable and would be opposed by any decent person.

Arkady

LordSutch wrote: »

Yeah, if only it were that simple. 1916 has always had a bit of a stigma attached to it (as well as all the retrospective adulation & hullabaloo).

The hypocrisy, revisionism and bandwagoning is a sight to see all right.
Even more Ironic is the fact that all that can be celebrated is the swapping of gangsters with English accents for gangsters with Irish ones. After alll the killing and dying of ordinary people for flegs and medals, are the public in Ireland now any better off than those in Northern Ireland or the UK ? It's amazing how you can dupe people into dying for a few select cronies personal power and wealth with a few flegs, songs and shiny medals. From Develara to CJ, to Bertie, to Enda, to Gerry to Thatcher to King Henry VIII. . .same play, same means, different actors, same gangsterism.

Capt'n Midnight

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

The Catholics up north were treated like Kings and Queens, much to all of our envy.

You do know what happened to royalty between 1916 and 1921 ?
They lost jobs and houses and worse.


Charles, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary
Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany
Tsar Nicholas II of Russia
Tsar Ferdinand I of Bulgaria
Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia
Sultan Mehmed VI of the Ottoman Empire
Prince William of Wied, Prince of Albania
Nikola I, King of Montenegro
Frederick Charles, King of Finland
Nasrullah Khan, Emir of Afghanistan

Honourable mentions
The Regency Kingdom of Poland didn't actually get around to getting a King so another quota job unfilled.
Puyi emperor of China until 1912

Alexander of Greece was killed by a monkey in 1918

smurgen

The biterness in this thread is astounding. Countries all over the world celebrate their independence and many were born out of violent uprisings.The Irish gained independence from one of the most murderous regimes in history and I am thankful for the sacrifices of my fellow Irish men.

Nodin

smurgen wrote: »

The biterness in this thread is astounding. Countries all over the world celebrate their independence and many were born out of violent uprisings.The Irish gained independence from one of the most murderous regimes in history and I am thankful for the sacrifices of my fella Irish men.

Those with a vested interest in maintaining a status quo have an instinctive fear of anything threatening it.

Permabear

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smurgen

Permabear wrote: »

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What is it about the commemoration that has your nose so out of joint?

Permabear

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Permabear

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smurgen

LordSutch wrote: »

Yeah, if only it were that simple. 1916 has always had a bit of a stigma attached to it (as well as all the retrospective adulation & hullabaloo).

The men & women you speak of (The Rebels) were despised at the time of the rising, they were geered at and spat at by Dubliners in the aftermath of all the devastation < and that stigma has always been there in the background, albeit behind all the adulation heaped upon the "Heroc figures" who decided that they would organise a violent insurgency, whithout the knowledge or the consent of the Irish People.

Maybe that's why there is a bit of an undercurrent of bitching behind all the shiny glitz, questionmark?
...anyway, whatever your view is, I am certainly maxed out on the wall to wall Rising stuff :cool:

Today 'St Patrick's Day' is a proper day to celebrate being Irish.

It has a stigma attached to it because of half truths and outright lies your type spreads. Let's be fair.you do not like Irish people or irishness.almost all of your posts on boards links Irishness and the Irish with negativity.you in my opinion are a bigot.you cannot accept the confidence of modern Ireland.

Skylinehead

smurgen wrote: »

It has a stigma attached to it because of half truths and outright lies your type spreads. Let's be fair.you do not like Irish people or irishness.almost all of your posts on boards links Irishness and the Irish with negativity.you in my opinion are a bigot.you cannot accept the confidence of modern Ireland.

Mod: Less of the personal abuse please.

Nodin

Permabear wrote: »

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O there you are. As I said its an instinctive fear - you would be unable to fully rationalise it yourself were you tasked to. Take for instance the op

Is anyone else sick of hearing about 1916? I don't even live in the country
and I'm tired of it.

That isn't a call for or start to a discussion, its a short jibe. There is little thought in it, save for the need to provoke, to confront, to attack. We know via your own posts that you lecture in English, yet the above is all you can summon against an historical event's centenary - it's a statement framed in tension, prompted by some unease and anger. After all, if you are in the country where you have previously claimed to be, I doubt you're being bombarded by 1916 imagery.

Your centenary - the centenary as is taking place in your own mind - is coming across as a bit too fenian for your liking. Man putting country before self, principles before profit - such things are anathema to you.

LordSutch

Wibbs wrote: »

That notion is much more to do with British propaganda at the time, the reality was very different and as these things are, more complex. If said individuals were so despised then surely their executions would have been celebrated?

Let's just take that at face value Wibbs. There is a general consensus among historians and those who take an interest in the Rising, that the Rebels were not the flavour of the month after the death & destruction they brought upon the good people of Dublin. Let's take that as a given.

The Rebels were cursed and spat upon by Dubliners, the Army was welcomed and cared for in their pursuit of the Rebels! The accounts of which are many and varied, from Diarmaid Ferreter to the makers of the RTE drama Rebellion (see episodes 1&2), right through to Joe Duffy and Brendan O'Carroll, who also would not deny that the Rebels were the enemy within (until after their executions).

The danger is Wibbs, once you start putting this fact into question then the whole nature of 1916 is changed into something it wasn't. The Rising went against the grain of 1916 Dublin/ Ireland. It came out of the blue, without the consent or the knowledge of the Irish people, hence their anger and dismay at what happened (nearly 500 deaths + the destruction of Dublin + the rumers of a German invasion)) so no wonder the people were against the Rebels > at that snapshot in time.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Let's just (..........)in time.

Hai.

The enemy were the British empire and all with them Sutch. It's very simple.

The Rape of Lucretia

Permabear wrote: »

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This is the essence of the problem with these 'celebrations' - for a country claiming to be a modern, peaceful democracy, this state sponsored approval of terrorism, murder, and destruction by outlaws, crackpots, and suicidal martyrs is extremely distasteful. An embarrassment for all 26 counties.

Nodin

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

This is the essence of the problem with these 'celebrations' - for a country claiming to be a modern, peaceful democracy, this state sponsored approval of terrorism, murder, and destruction by outlaws, crackpots, and suicidal martyrs is extremely distasteful. An embarrassment for all 26 counties.

....is this the easter thing or the easter rising thing you're on about?

Mesrine65

"All nations, even the most benevolent in later practice, are founded on acts of violence..."

"Unity is always achieved by brutality..."

Quotes from "What is a Nation? Qu'est-ce qu'une nation?" an 1882 lecture by French historian Ernest Renan (1823–1892), that is frequently quoted or anthologized in works of history or political science pertaining to nationalism & national identity.

So are the French wrong to celebrate La Révolution Française?

smurgen

Mesrine65 wrote: »

"All nations, even the most benevolent in later practice, are founded on acts of violence..."

"Unity is always achieved by brutality..."

Quotes from "What is a Nation? Qu'est-ce qu'une nation?" an 1882 lecture by French historian Ernest Renan (1823–1892), that is frequently quoted or anthologized in works of history or political science pertaining to nationalism & national identity.

So are the French wrong to celebrate La Révolution Française?

No.it's perfectly fine to support revolutions unless you're irish.the Americans and french can celebrate their's but apparently we should be ashamed of ourselves.

smurgen

Permabear wrote: »

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Violence has always been used as a means to political change.look at western interventions in the middle east. Imperialist regimes such as the English monarchy are pros at destabilising regions using violence.in the end the British brought us down to their level which is regrettable but we cannot change the past now.

In my eyes the 100 year celebration is a celebration of our freedom and our development and most importantly how we are right now. We're one of the happiest and wealthiest nations on earth.we have high social mobility and have minimal class structures.we should be proud of what has been achieved and strive to make our society even better.

Also 50 million is a drop in the ocean.and I'd imagine many tourists will actually come to Ireland for the rising alone.

TheHillOfDoom

LordSutch wrote: »

Let's just take that at face value Wibbs. There is a general consensus among historians and those who take an interest in the Rising, that the Rebels were not the flavour of the month after the death & destruction they brought upon the good people of Dublin. Let's take that as a given.

The Rebels were cursed and spat upon by Dubliners, the Army was welcomed and cared for in their pursuit of the Rebels! The accounts of which are many and varied, from Diarmaid Ferreter to the makers of the RTE drama Rebellion (see episodes 1&2), right through to Joe Duffy and Brendan O'Carroll, who also would not deny that the Rebels were the enemy within (until after their executions).

The danger is Wibbs, once you start putting this fact into question then the whole nature of 1916 is changed into something it wasn't. The Rising went against the grain of 1916 Dublin/ Ireland. It came out of the blue, without the consent or the knowledge of the Irish people, hence their anger and dismay at what happened (nearly 500 deaths + the destruction of Dublin + the rumers of a German invasion)) so no wonder the people were against the Rebels > at that snapshot in time.

Public opinion changed when the British shot the rebels.

Eugene Norman

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Define West-Brit. Is it someone who just happens to have a different opinion to your goodself?

Do tell.....

It's somebody who regrets Irish independence.

TheHillOfDoom

There are visionary's and there are sheep. The rebels were visionary.

It's like right now, I can see Trump is going to be a global fiasco on a scale never encountered. However, were I to state that in public I would be boo'd and heehaw'd.

The rebels saw what the British were, what they stood for and what they were capable of. Unfortunately they had to have their young lives taken to prove it.

The Rape of Lucretia

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's somebody who regrets Irish independence.

I would say its stronger than that. I think we would more regard the current status a regrettable temporary mistake, and still aspire to restoration of the full Union. So, yes a regret, but not yet a closed issue - the error ca be remedied.

TheHillOfDoom

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I would say its stronger than that. I think we would more regard the current status a regrettable temporary mistake, and still aspire to restoration of the full Union. So, yes a regret, but not yet a closed issue - the error ca be remedied.

Have you got a clue what is going on globally? Britain wants to exit the EU. If they do, Scotland will go to referendum again (and exit Britain). Wales have been surprisingly quiet on the issue, but NI is then completely dragged from Ireland in all terms. I would be very surprised to see NI remaining with Britain in such an event.

We (I) have no problem liaising with England. However, it is on Irish terms. Not as a subject.

Dyr

Permabear wrote: »

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It must be a difficult time for shoneens alright.

The Rape of Lucretia

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

There are visionary's and there are sheep. The rebels were visionary.

It's like right now, I can see Trump is going to be a global fiasco on a scale never encountered. However, were I to state that in public I would be boo'd and heehaw'd.

The rebels saw what the British were, what they stood for and what they were capable of. Unfortunately they had to have their young lives taken to prove it.

The British stand for all of us. And we are grateful for them every day we are on God's earth. We would not have the Europe we have today were it not for their courage, power, sacrifice, ingenuiity, and selflessness. We could have stood with them - as we did in 14-18 bar the traitors in the GPO. But ducked out and looked thw other way when we should have been an integral part of the UK fighting on the side of right. To our eternal shame we chose to play at gombeens running a minor province on our own.

TheHillOfDoom

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The British stand for all of us. And we are grateful for them every day we are on God's earth. We would not have the Europe we have today were it not for their courage, power, sacrifice, ingenuiity, and selflessness. We could have stood with them - as we did in 14-18 bar the traitors in the GPO. But ducked out and looked thw other way when we should have been an integral part of the UK fighting on the side of right. To our eternal shame we chose to play at gombeens running a minor province on our own.

It's not to my shame. I am proud to have such a unique culture and economy, independent of Britain. Ireland and England were too different to ever enmesh.