Would you allow your sons to be feminine?

falseatheist

And perhaps buy female clothes that are not so obvious ( coats, shirts, legging, denim shorts but not skirts)

The reason I ask is because my father was averse to me wearing womens perfume, carrying a shopping bag that was "girly looking" and even holding a purse for my mother. He never allowed me to grow long hair even though I kept it tidy etc.

My mother wasn't too much better either.

So would you be comfortable if your son went out in lets say denim shorts or would that be unacceptable and embarrass you? Would you also allow sleepovers of the opposite sex if they have friends who are girls?

TheMilkyPirate

My son can do whatever he likes when he gets older I won't stop him and I'll encourage him to do whatever makes him happy.

That being said I'd rather he didn't go around in denim shorts or other women's clothes so hopefully something else in life will make him happy.

12Phase

No. Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to me.

The whole gender dress code thing is only cultural anyway.

Go back a couple of hundred years and men dressed very flamboyantly.
Go back 40 years and women found it difficult to do jobs that were stereotyped as male only.

People should just dress and act how they feel. I don't see the point of forcing anyone to behave in a way that they're uncomfortable with. It's a recipe for stress, resentment and problems. Life's too short to be worrying about such things.

dazed+confused

12Phase wrote:

Life's too short to be worrying about such things.

I agree, but my son wouldn't be wearing denim shorts either.

falseatheist

dazed+confused wrote: »

I agree, but my son wouldn't be wearing denim shorts either.

Why exactly? Not that your opinion is wrong but i'm just wondering

mynameis905

falseatheist wrote: »

And perhaps buy female clothes that are not so obvious ( coats, shirts, legging, denim shorts but not skirts)

Leggings are worn by runners and cyclists but do you mean wearing women's coats/blouses?

AnonoBoy

dazed+confused wrote: »

I agree, but my son wouldn't be wearing denim shorts either.

Well not with our weather anyway.

The poor lad's legs would be frozen!

ancapailldorcha

falseatheist wrote: »

So would you be comfortable if your son went out in lets say denim shorts or would that be unacceptable and embarrass you? Would you also allow sleepovers of the opposite sex if they have friends who are girls?

Of course. It's the 21st century.

One eyed Jack

12Phase wrote: »

No. Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to me.

The whole gender dress code thing is only cultural anyway.

Go back a couple of hundred years and men dressed very flamboyantly.
Go back 40 years and women found it difficult to do jobs that were stereotyped as male only.

People should just dress and act how they feel. I don't see the point of forcing anyone to behave in a way that they're uncomfortable with. It's a recipe for stress, resentment and problems. Life's too short to be worrying about such things.

"Only" cultural? Go back 100 years?

Meanwhile, in reality, culture and trends cannot be so easily dismissed as irrelevant.

No OP, I wouldn't allow my son to dress in feminine clothing as he would look ridiculous. It's a recipe for stress, resentment, and problems.


EDIT: Sleepovers? Absolutely no!!

AnonoBoy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No OP, I wouldn't allow my son to dress in feminine clothing as he would look ridiculous.

Sorry to tell you this but every teenager ends up looking ridiculous in hindsight. Might as well let them be happy while they're doing it because no matter what they wear they'll probably look back in years to come and think they looked like tools!

JRant

One eyed Jack wrote: »

"Only" cultural? Go back 100 years?

Meanwhile, in reality, culture and trends cannot be so easily dismissed as irrelevant.

No OP, I wouldn't allow my son to dress in feminine clothing as he would look ridiculous. It's a recipe for stress, resentment, and problems.

The main stress, resent and problems would be with your son if you adopted that mindset.

So what if they want to wear it, what's the big deal? Sure some people may pass comment and stare but I'd rather support my child over confirming to social norms.

One eyed Jack

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Sorry to tell you this but every teenager ends up looking ridiculous in hindsight. Might as well let them be happy while they're doing it because no matter what they wear they'll probably look back in years to come and think they looked like tools!

I'm ok with him looking back at how ridiculous he looked. I'm just not ok with him looking ridiculous in the present. I'm all for him being happy too, just not looking ridiculous in the pursuit of happiness is all :pac:

eviltwin

My son chooses his own clothes. So far he's always picked traditional boys clothes but I wouldn't worry or care if he went feminine. He has his nails painted at the weekend and has long hair. No one under 30 has any negativity to it.

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm ok with him looking back at how ridiculous he looked. I'm just not ok with him looking ridiculous in the present. I'm all for him being happy too, just not looking ridiculous in the pursuit of happiness is all :pac:

At what age would you let him dress that way if he wanted to?

Dial Hard

One eyed Jack wrote:

"Only" cultural? Go back 100 years?

Go back 350 and tell us what you think.

Prior to the Regency period men dressed just as flamboyantly as women. That was the case pretty much throughout the early modern* period.

Long before that, in the Classical period, men and women were robed and pretty much the only difference was how they were hung and the fact that women's were girdled (cinched by a braided rope in certain places to accentuate curves).

Ideas of "masculine" dress are recent constructs, dating from the late 18th/early 19th century.





*Generally accepted to be from the 12th century onwards

One eyed Jack

JRant wrote: »

The main stress, resent and problems would be with your son if you adopted that mindset.

So what if they want to wear it, what's the big deal? Sure some people may pass comment and stare but I'd rather support my child over confirming to social norms.

And I'm much happier not conforming to social non-conformism. Funny how that works, but in my experience it definitely causes less stress, problems and so on, plus it has the added advantage that he's not hogging the bathroom in the morning!!

One eyed Jack

Dial Hard wrote: »

Go back 350 and tell us what you think.

Prior to the Regency period men dressed just as flamboyantly as women. That was the case pretty much throughout the early modern* period.

Long before that, in the Classical period, men and women were robed and pretty much the only difference was how they were hung and the fact that women's were girdled (cinched by a braided rope in certain places to accentuate curves).

Ideas of "masculine" dress are recent constructs, dating from the late 18th/early 19th century.





*Generally accepted to be from the 12th century onwards

Yes and that's all fine, but my point was exactly that we don't live in times that were 100 or even 350 years ago, or even millennia ago when we strolled around naked and hunted for food while we lived in caves.

AnonoBoy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm ok with him looking back at how ridiculous he looked. I'm just not ok with him looking ridiculous in the present. I'm all for him being happy too, just not looking ridiculous in the pursuit of happiness is all :pac:

There's lots of male clothes he'll look ridiculous in.

Are you actually going to attempt to tell a teenage boy what to wear?

G'luck with that, do let us all know how you get on!

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

At what age would you let him dress that way if he wanted to?

I suppose when he's old enough to have moved out, gotten a job, is able to afford his own clothes, and is secure enough in himself to handle an unmerciful mocking.

JRant

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And I'm much happier not conforming to social non-conformism. Funny how that works, but in my experience it definitely causes less stress, problems and so on, plus it has the added advantage that he's not hogging the bathroom in the morning!!

Ha, the non conforming non-conformists!! Sounds like one of those many many ridiculous gender descriptions on facebook

Yeah, that's fair enough. Probably takes you long enough to put the make-up on as it is...

Dial Hard

One eyed Jack wrote:

Yes and that's all fine, but my point was exactly that we don't live in times that were 100 or even 350 years ago, or even millennia ago when we strolled around naked and hunted for food while we lived in caves.

And my point is that fashion, social and gender constructs are constantly evolving and it behooves no-one to think that their version of any of these is "right".

One eyed Jack

AnonoBoy wrote: »

There's lots of male clothes he'll look ridiculous in.

Are you actually going to attempt to tell a teenage boy what to wear?

G'luck with that, do let us all know how you get on!

Getting on grand with it thanks for asking

JRant

AnonoBoy wrote: »

There's lots of male clothes he'll look ridiculous in.

Are you actually going to attempt to tell a teenage boy what to wear?

G'luck with that, do let us all know how you get on!

Haven't one of the high street shop realised a line of gender neutral clothing recently?

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I suppose when he's old enough to have moved out, gotten a job, is able to afford his own clothes, and is secure enough in himself to handle an unmerciful mocking.

You can't tell a teenager what to wear. Most parents think teen fashion is awful. You just have to leave them to it. It's an important part of their identity.

axel rose

What exactly would some of you actually do if you saw my 7 year old in his elsa pjs playing with his dolls? He's been interested in all things girlie since he was 2 and I can't see it changing anytime soon!

He has worn girlie stuff and the world hasn't stopped turning.

whats the big deal?

12Phase

Bowie looked great and is a legend.
End of thread

Eddie Izzard and various others are very femininely dressed without any issue.

One eyed Jack

Dial Hard wrote: »

And my point is that fashion, social and gender constructs are constantly evolving and it behooves no-one to think that their version of any of these is "right".

Yes but when it's my child, then it behooves me to advocate for him on his behalf, and to ensure that he doesn't put himself in a position where he is likely to have the piss ripped out of him. The OP's parents obviously care for their son and they don't want him putting himself in a position where he is likely to have the piss ripped out of him for looking ridiculous. I can see where they're coming from, and obviously, yes, I understand where you're coming from too, but I'd see that as the sort of idealism that someone else can promote, but I just don't see why my child needs to be the poster boy for changing fashion trends.

AnonoBoy

JRant wrote: »

Haven't one of the high street shop realised a line of gender neutral clothing recently?

Lots of clothes is gender neutral though isn't it? I mean, fitted shirts and slim/skinny jeans are worn by both sexes regularly and it's not seen as odd.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Getting on grand with it thanks for asking

As a matter of interest have you ever put the foot down about something he wants to wear or is your young fellah a normal enough dresser?

12Phase

If your daughter pulls on a pair of jeans and a lumberjack shirt and declares her interest in playing rugby and wants to be a firefighter it's all great.

A lad does something similar with stereotypically feminine things and it's still shock / horror.

Heavy set of double standards applies.

Dial Hard

One eyed Jack wrote:

Yes but when it's my child, then it behooves me to advocate for him on his behalf, and to ensure that he doesn't put himself in a position where he is likely to have the piss ripped out of him.

This is the exact same "logic" that people employed to say they had no problem with homosexuality "as such" but wouldn't want their own son or daughter to be gay because they wouldn't want them to be hurt by other people's attitudes. The exact same attitudes they were displaying themselves. As are you.

falseatheist

One eyed Jack wrote: »

"Only" cultural? Go back 100 years?

Meanwhile, in reality, culture and trends cannot be so easily dismissed as irrelevant.

No OP, I wouldn't allow my son to dress in feminine clothing as he would look ridiculous. It's a recipe for stress, resentment, and problems.


EDIT: Sleepovers? Absolutely no!!

If he was gay would you allow him to sleepover with boys and/or girls?

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

You can't tell a teenager what to wear. Most parents think teen fashion is awful. You just have to leave them to it. It's an important part of their identity.

Ah you can, ok you might choose not to and that's fair enough, but I absolutely tell him what he can and can't wear, and I make no bones about telling him he would look ridiculous. He gets his kicks out of it half the time, but he knows what he's at. I'm not too concerned that he'll start wearing anything too outrageous any time soon as all of his friends all wear normal clothes for their age and it's just not an issue.

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah you can, ok you might choose not to and that's fair enough, but I absolutely tell him what he can and can't wear, and I make no bones about telling him he would look ridiculous. He gets his kicks out of it half the time, but he knows what he's at. I'm not too concerned that he'll start wearing anything too outrageous any time soon as all of his friends all wear normal clothes for their age and it's just not an issue.

Why do you care so much?

One eyed Jack

falseatheist wrote: »

If he was gay would you allow him to sleepover with boys and/or girls?

Whether he's gay or not would be completely irrelevant. He's 11 now and of course I don't mind him going for sleepovers or staying over in his friends houses, but I wouldn't want him bringing people back when he's older. He can do that when he gets his own place.

armaghlad

I don't have any sons. If I did I'd let them wear whatever made them feel comfortable. I'd rather they didn't wear women's clothing, but that's not for me to decide.

hairyslug

Wouldn't have an issue with what my kids wear whatever they choose to where, tbh, I shake my head looking at what teenagers are wearing these days, don't even get me started on their hair.

But, if my son wore girls clothes or my daughters wore boys clothes as they got older, (if society doesn't evolve) I would be concerned for their safety, always dickheads out there that will look at it as an excuse to knock 7 shades out of someone

falseatheist

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah you can, ok you might choose not to and that's fair enough, but I absolutely tell him what he can and can't wear, and I make no bones about telling him he would look ridiculous. He gets his kicks out of it half the time, but he knows what he's at. I'm not too concerned that he'll start wearing anything too outrageous any time soon as all of his friends all wear normal clothes for their age and it's just not an issue.

Just to be clear, I don't mean skirts or tights I mean just some leggings from GAP. or a coat with its own belt. Would you still disagree with that?

Annasopra

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah you can, ok you might choose not to and that's fair enough, but I absolutely tell him what he can and can't wear, and I make no bones about telling him he would look ridiculous. He gets his kicks out of it half the time, but he knows what he's at. I'm not too concerned that he'll start wearing anything too outrageous any time soon as all of his friends all wear normal clothes for their age and it's just not an issue.

I don't get it. Why the need to be so strict and authoritarian and why not let your child learn by himself and make his own choices?

falseatheist

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Whether he's gay or not would be completely irrelevant. He's 11 now and of course I don't mind him going for sleepovers or staying over in his friends houses, but I wouldn't want him bringing people back when he's older. He can do that when he gets his own place.

So you wouldn't allow girls even if they're close friends at any age?

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do you care so much?

Because he's my child. Of course I'm going to care about not just how he dresses, but every aspect of his personal and social development. It's not about feeling any need to control him, as I'm glad he's a very independent child, and that's down to how he has been guided, not controlled.

One eyed Jack

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I don't get it. Why the need to be so strict and authoritarian and why not let your child learn by himself and make his own choices?

There are times when it's appropriate to allow a child the space to learn for themselves and to be mindful for their safety, and then there are rimes when they need to be guided, so that they can learn without putting themselves in danger. It's authoritarian because I'm his parent, not his best friend.

Zillah

Son, I'm afraid people will judge you for your clothing choices, so to help you I am going to judge you for your clothing choices.

Enjoy your timewarp back to the 1950's, Jack, I hope you don't scar your son with your insecurities.

One eyed Jack

Dial Hard wrote: »

This is the exact same "logic" that people employed to say they had no problem with homosexuality "as such" but wouldn't want their own son or daughter to be gay because they wouldn't want them to be hurt by other people's attitudes. The exact same attitudes they were displaying themselves. As are you.

Yes, and I can understand where they were coming from, and I still meet plenty of parents like that who worry about their children's future and so on, so it's pretty pointless to point out that people worry about their children. Who wouldn't?

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Because he's my child. Of course I'm going to care about not just how he dresses, but every aspect of his personal and social development. It's not about feeling any need to control him, as I'm glad he's a very independent child, and that's down to how he has been guided, not controlled.

But that is exactly what you are doing. You said you would tell him what he can't wear until he leaves home. That's quite controlling. Is there something to be ashamed of by a man dressing feminine? Would you have a problem with your daughter dressing masculine?

falseatheist

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There are times when it's appropriate to allow a child the space to learn for themselves and to be mindful for their safety, and then there are rimes when they need to be guided, so that they can learn without putting themselves in danger. It's authoritarian because I'm his parent, not his best friend.

I bet you make your children address you a sir. Would I be wrong?

One eyed Jack

Zillah wrote: »

Son, I'm afraid people will judge you for your clothing choices, so to help you I am going to judge you for your clothing choices.

Enjoy your timewarp back to the 1950's, Jack, I hope you don't scar your son with your insecurities.

But it's not the 1950's, it's 2016. I'm not insecure at all, why would I be when I feel no need whatsoever to conform to someone else's parenting ideals?

One eyed Jack

eviltwin wrote: »

But that is exactly what you are doing. You said you would tell him what he can't wear until he leaves home. That's quite controlling. Is there something to be ashamed of by a man dressing feminine? Would you have a problem with your daughter dressing masculine?

I'm not going to tell anyone else how to dress, but when it's my own child, different standards apply. It's quite likely I'd feel the same way if I had a daughter.

falseatheist wrote: »

I bet you make your children address you a sir. Would I be wrong?

'Dad' works just fine.

freshpopcorn

Sometimes now when I go into clothes shops I sometimes have to figure out which is the male and female section.
I'd generally dress fairly manly. If I had a son who wanted to dress very frmaine I wouldn't be trilled about it mainly because my experiences frmaine guys have being fairly poor but he'd be my son so I wouldn't really care about it as long as he was happy. My only concerns would be he'd be bullied.

JRant

falseatheist wrote: »

Just to be clear, I don't mean skirts or tights I mean just some leggings from GAP. or a coat with its own belt. Would you still disagree with that?

A coat with its own belt?
Nothing femine about that at all.

Sure the skinny jeans fellas are wearing are more like jeggings anyway.

Zillah

You're not conforming to our preference, no, but you are conforming to the views of millions of insecure bullies who you are afraid might take issue with your son not being the very picture of manhood as they view it.

Clothes don't cause harm to people, judging people for their appearance is what causes harm, and you're already setting your son up to be one of the people that does that.

mynameis905

falseatheist wrote: »

Just to be clear, I don't mean skirts or tights I mean just some leggings from GAP. or a coat with its own belt. Would you still disagree with that?

Since we're excluding skirts and tights, what exactly do you mean by 'feminine' clothing?

Here's a man wearing leggings



And here's Bogart in a coat with a belt looking about as manly as is physically possible.



I can't see anything remotely effeminate about either.