Would you allow your sons to be feminine?

silverharp

eviltwin wrote: »

As a woman I find this whole narrative quite depressing and insulting. Is femininity and womanhood so embarrassing or shameful that a boy wearing anything remotely 'girly' horrifies some men?

I wouldnt say thats a fair appraisal, femininity is respected in women but in men not so much, and men and women are responsible for this

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not dodging there just painfully long, can you not just stick to one or two main points rather than taking an ak47 to every word.

I have done no such thing. You are making stuff up now. Above I very clearly summarised it into 4 short examples. If there is an attention span issue here I am not aware of then just say - I can shorten it further - but it's not me it's you.

You are throwing assertion after assertion out here - and I am just seeing if you can back any of them up. Perhaps your refusal to do so it predicated on knowing that you can not do so - and attempting any one will bring the whole house of cards down.

This is a thread about allowing a child to express themselves in a way different to the "norm" - or not - and the different effects of each decision. _You_ - not me you - have been throwing out phrases like "mental abuse" and making claims about disease and mental issues and their rates and even what _causes_ mental issues.

And I am just not seeing you back _any_ of it up. Rather you just make excuses not to - or shout out words like "misjudged" and then run. This is a _discussion_ forum not a soap box and I am merely trying to explore the topics _with you_ that _you_ brought up.

eviltwin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think that's it, it's your boy wanting to live as a girl and encouraging it. That's what's shocking some people.
Nobody is in anyway saying femininity or womanhood is embarrassing, it's the opposite.

My son doesn't want to live as a girl, he's not transgender. He just happens to like certain things that would traditionally be considered female orientated. And what of it? No one forces him, he makes his own decisions. If he was getting hassle he'd probably stop but he's not. He's as much of a boy as the next one.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

Still waiting to hear - for example - why Eddie Izzard is or is not a good role model.

Eddy Izzard is brilliant, Ive shown a lot of his videos to my son, but Im not sure what conclusion you are drawing here? Izzard can pull it off because he is successful in the public sphere and that gives him insane levels of value in society. if Izzard was a van driver or wanted to be an accountant his persona wouldnt work so well

Dyr

eviltwin wrote: »

As a woman I find this whole narrative quite depressing and insulting. Is femininity and womanhood so embarrassing or shameful that a boy wearing anything remotely 'girly' horrifies some men?

If you had a young fella that wanted toy guns would you give him toy guns?

drunkmonkey

Why don't you back up your opinion that letting your son out in girls clothes is good for their mental health.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

but Im not sure what conclusion you are drawing here?

I am not. I am exploring someone elses conclusions by giving a counter example (Izzard) to other examples he offered. Because I would see Izzard myself as a good role model - not because of or even in spite of his cross dressing - but entirely separate from it.

Yet izzard himself attributes his drive and success in recent years to that. He said over coming the barriers of being who he really was in a society that looks down on it - set a bar so high that every obstacle and challenge in life seems relatively easy because of it.

And I would be suggesting to the people who think they are "protecting" their child - or "preparing their child from the real world" - by means of getting them to suppress or hide who they are - might be at best naive if well intentioned - and at worst even positively harmful.

So I am curious to see what the others users take on it is.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why don't you back up your opinion that letting your son out in girls clothes is good for their mental health.

Another standard cop out methodology there. Refuse to answer what is asked of you and demand counter evidence - often for claims no one actually made.

Look if you can not back up your assertions and claims here - that is fine. Just admit it - no shame. I was only looking to see if you could or not. And "not" appears to be the answer. So conversation over really.

drunkmonkey

Your not backing up anything your just picking out evey word from posters and giving a long winded opinion after each sentence. You have no evidence to back up anything you say, neither do any of us but we're not accusing you of being wrong and a danger to our own children.

Zillah

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think letting your son out to hurling training in a mini skirt is going to result in a happy and healthy child?

If your son wants to go out to hurling practice in a mini skirt then there are much bigger issues going on than how the lads are going to react. Happy and healthy? I seriously doubt he is happy and healthy right now if that's what he wants. He's either transgender or acting out in rebellion against something.

Whatever is going on, you forbidding him from wearing certain clothing is going to do nothing but make you feel better in the short term and completely ignores his needs.

In this scenario did you take even a second to think about what's going on inside his mind and how you can help him, or were you more worried about the farmers on the sidelines throwing each other glances?

drunkmonkey

I'd have no idea what's going on in his head but while I try and figure it out, cross dressing is banned in the house.

Zillah

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd have no idea what's going on in his head

Ok, good. Do you think maybe you should be able to understand what is going on inside his head before you start telling him how he will act and dress for the foreseeable future?

Could you suggest some possible explanations for his behaviour?

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not backing up anything your just picking out evey word from posters and giving a long winded opinion after each sentence. You have no evidence to back up anything you say, neither do any of us but we're not accusing you of being wrong and a danger to our own children.

Excuse be but what have *I* said I have not provided evidence for? I am certainly happy to do so. But the thing you asked for evidence for above is not a position *I* have expressed. So all you are doing is deflecting by a very common tactic of trying to shift focus from you to another.

The simple fact is however _you_ by your own choice have thrown out quite a few serious assertions. One about what causes mental issues. One about what constitutes "mental abuse". And one about disease and mental issues in the LGBT community. To name but three examples.

And you are refusing to back up _anything_ you say. You. Not me. You. So do not make it about me just to deflect.

Because I _can_ cite paper after paper on the positive effects of parental support and understanding during the process of "coming out" as being in any way outside the norm. I have not seen _one_ citation from you showing that such support and catering for the process is "mental abuse" or leads to "mental issues".

And I have read the statistics and papers on things like disease and mental issues in the LGBT community. At great length. And the assertions you make on that subject are not as well founded as you appear to think.

So yea I am happy to back up anything I have _actually said_ - but not merely to pander to you deflecting from answering the open, honest, polite and direct questions I have asked.

eviltwin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not backing up anything your just picking out evey word from posters and giving a long winded opinion after each sentence. You have no evidence to back up anything you say, neither do any of us but we're not accusing you of being wrong and a danger to our own children.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd have no idea what's going on in his head but while I try and figure it out, cross dressing is banned in the house.

What if he's a cross dressing thirty something living away from home. How would you address that.

jobbridge4life

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your not backing up anything your just picking out evey word from posters and giving a long winded opinion after each sentence. You have no evidence to back up anything you say, neither do any of us but we're not accusing you of being wrong and a danger to our own children.

You very clearly are you've repeatedly suggested that allowing a child to dress in gender non-conforming clothes is a threat to their mental health. You've said that parents who accept their children's sexuality were leading their children down a road of death and disease. An outrageous and hurtful slur.

drunkmonkey

How can I back up an opinion. It's based on my life experiences.
And the papers your have disagree with Glens latest survey in the paper today and the HSE.
I'm not going down that road with you so you may give up trying to force me by dismissing evey single word based on your papers.

jobbridge4life

Are you just ranting for the sake of it now?

eviltwin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How can I back up an opinion. It's based on my life experiences.
And the papers your have disagree with Glens latest survey in the paper today and the HSE.
I'm not going down that road with you so you may give up trying to force me by dismissing evey single word based on your papers.

You quite clearly stated allowing boys to dress feminine is unfit parenting and will lead to mental issues. If you're going to make such an outrageous claim surely you have some evidence to back it up.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How can I back up an opinion. It's based on my life experiences.

You made, for example, a statistical claim about disease and mental health issues in the LGBT community. That is not a "life experience" claim. That was a direct measurable claim about reality.

So to is your declaration about what causes Mental Issues or what constitutes mental abuse.

You do not get to make patently nonsense assertion and then hide behind "personal experience" to dodge questions on it. More honest would be to admit you made it up - can not back any of it up - and we can all move on like adults.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And the papers your have disagree with Glens latest survey in the paper today and the HSE.

I have _no_ idea what you are talking about which is why I keep asking you to cite your source. A request you seem painfully intent on dodging with just about _every_ trick in the book. Can you link to this "survey" please? Can you cite the "HSE" statements or papers on the issue please?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not going down that road with you so you may give up trying to force me by dismissing evey single word based on your papers.

How evil of me to put facts in the way of your assertions. How evil of me to not sit back and let people distort or invent reality to fit some internal narrative they want to push.

What a bad man I must be. Next it will turn out I somehow forced you into posting on this thread in the first place and making the series of assertions you made.

Sorry no - your attempt to spin this is going to fail. I have done nothing wrong exact ask if you have any basis for the things you have claimed here. "Attacking the post not the poster" as one user put it earlier. I am looking at your posts - and asking "Is that assertion or can you support it?"

And it is clear which answer is the right one there.

drunkmonkey

jobbridge4life wrote: »

You very clearly are you've repeatedly suggested that allowing a child to dress in gender non-conforming clothes is a threat to their mental health. You've said that parents who accept their children's sexuality were leading their children down a road of death and disease. An outrageous and hurtful slur.

Yes in public, I used to see it nearly every day with a transgender woman, pointed at, stuff thrown at her and verbally abused, I wouldn't wish that on anyone let alone my kids.
If as a parent you could prevent your child from coming to any harm you'd try your best to avoid it. They will come to harm and attract the wrong people if allowed to do as they please.
Not letting them wear the dress has been compared to neglient homicide.

drunkmonkey

eviltwin wrote: »

You quite clearly stated allowing boys to dress feminine is unfit parenting and will lead to mental issues. If you're going to make such an outrageous claim surely you have some evidence to back it up.

Yes in my opinion letting your son out in the dress will lead to issues, as a parent I'm surprised you don't see any harm in it.

Zillah

No one is contesting that life as a gay or transgender person isn't harder than being a regular Joe.

Drunkmonkey, can you answer this question please, because it's come up a few times and seems to be at the heart of this: do you think you can influence the chances of your son being gay or transgender?

jobbridge4life

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes in public, I used to see it nearly every day with a transgender woman, pointed at, stuff thrown at her and verbally abused, I wouldn't wish that on anyone let alone my kids.
If as a parent you could prevent your child from coming to any harm you'd try your best to avoid it. They will come to harm and attract the wrong people if allowed to do as they please.
Not letting them wear the dress has been compared to neglient homicide.

You saw it and did you do anything to stop it? Or did you watch a person be tormented everyday and do nothing.


Of course children need boundaries and guidance and might be best advised and even told that certain attire is not appropriate at certain times but that is a far cry from what you have been suggesting here.
Especially when you consider what you said about gay people, if one of your children is gay I hope you'll think of the way you talk and treat them and how it would impact them.

jobbridge4life

It is interesting and perhaps telling about the fragility of masculinity that a conversation about femininity quickly devolved into a discussion about gay people and, worse still, we seem to have an individual on here suggesting that one can force the gay out of a child by patrolling what they wear! Its insanely ludicrous and I'd quite enjoy seeing anyone explain to Gareth Thomas that being gay involved being feminine.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes in my opinion letting your son out in the dress will lead to issues, as a parent I'm surprised you don't see any harm in it.

I think you are over simplifying the nuances of the position of most parents on this issue. It is not that we see _no harm_ in it. It is that we - like in most situations - consider the harms and benefits - and balance them against the harms and benefits of shutting the child down - letting them go their own way entirely - or somewhere in between to guide them through the process.

_Any_ child that identifies with a grouping outside the "norm" is going to get some social pushback for that. Be they cross dressers or punks. Goths or skin heads. One of the people who suffered most for his self identification in school was an Aston Villa fan back in the mid 90s.

You talk of life experience as you deride scientific and research and statistical citation - something you have so far provided _NONE OF_. But here is some from me since anecdote moves you so much.

I myself remember hanging with goths when I was growing up. I did not know where I fit in - like most kids - at one point. But I found the goths very welcoming and friendly and I hung out with them a lot. I did not dress like them or act like them but they accepted me as much as I did them.

But sitting in their group - which usually hung out around Central Bank in Dublin - I remember the derision and attitude of passers by. Some people shouted out derogatory or hurtful things about them and their dress. Some people deliberately banged into them walking past. Sometimes people even threw stuff.

But they gained strength from each other - their peers - and grew in the face of the primitive ape monkey animal attitudes and behaviours of the goods that derided them. They stayed true to who they were - grew because of it and in spite of it - and formed close friendships and bonds. And today the ones I am still in contact with - are as healthy and successful as anything you would want your own kids to be.

So was there social and other "harm" in their parents letting them dress up in black and white clothes and face paints and the like? Sure there was. But were those parents right to let their children take this path - instead of preventing them it - but choosing instead to teach and guide them through that "phase" of their life? Yes that too.

So you're dismissive "I'm surprised you don't see any harm in it." comment does not even tell half the story or reality here. As parents many of us weight up not _just_ the potential benefit or harm in any situation - but _also_ the potential benefit or harm of our intercession - and what level that intercession could best take.

And if that is "mental abuse" to you then that does little more than tell us what this "life experience" of yours is actually worth in real currency.

eviltwin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes in my opinion letting your son out in the dress will lead to issues, as a parent I'm surprised you don't see any harm in it.

There is no harm in it provided its his choice, his own decision. Where is the harm? The only thing I can think of is bullying but if that were to happen he would probably modify his behaviour if it were that much of an issue. And if that does happen the problem is always with the bully. You keep talking about damage but you won't clarify what you mean by that.

drunkmonkey

jobbridge4life wrote: »

You saw it and did you do anything to stop it? Or did you watch a person be tormented everyday and do nothing.


Of course children need boundaries and guidance and might be best advised and even told that certain attire is not appropriate at certain times but that is a far cry from what you have been suggesting here.
Especially when you consider what you said about gay people, if one of your children is gay I hope you'll think of the way you talk and treat them and how it would impact them.

Just to be clear I have not mentioned anything about a gay child. My posts have been about cross dressing young boys in public.
It's other posters that are are associating dresses with gay men, if I was a gay man I'd be flipping out with them.

drunkmonkey

eviltwin wrote: »

There is no harm in it provided its his choice, his own decision. Where is the harm? The only thing I can think of is bullying but if that were to happen he would probably modify his behaviour if it were that much of an issue. And if that does happen the problem is always with the bully. You keep talking about damage but you won't clarify what you mean by that.

You said it the bully, the other kids, that's where the harm will come and by letting them out in the dress your opening a world of pain for them. Why would you willingly do that to your son.

jobbridge4life

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just to be clear I have not mentioned anything about a gay child. My posts have been about cross dressing young boys in public.
It's other posters that are are associating dresses with gay men, if I was a gay man I'd be flipping out with them.

No lets be really clear you said the following tripe. And btw how insecure does one have to be to 'flip out' because someone associated you with a dress? Do you think the Scottish are secretly transgender or something?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Are you a parent or even an involved uncle that has daily interaction with you own or your brothers and sisters kids? Your not going to educate any child in such a way, they do not comprehend what's going on, to educate it as you call it is nothing short of mental abuse as your not doing your best to help them into the normal world that 98% of the population live in daily.
MannyMua and Ms Jenner are not role models for any child, lbgt group even on today's paper have much higher instances of mental Heath problems, suicide HIV and other diseases. Any parent willingly influencing their child to walk down that road if they wish is not a fit parent, that's why I don't believe most of the liberal far left attitudes in this thread are coming from Mothers and Fathers.

eviltwin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You said it the bully, the other kids, that's where the harm will come and by letting them out in the dress your opening a world of pain for them. Why would you willingly do that to your son.

I wouldn't be doing anything. As I said before it would be his choice. I don't raise my kids to cave in to bullies, they have more balls than that. If my son was being bullied for wearing glasses would you tell me to get him contacts?

drunkmonkey

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is interesting and perhaps telling about the fragility of masculinity that a conversation about femininity quickly devolved into a discussion about gay people and, worse still, we seem to have an individual on here suggesting that one can force the gay out of a child by patrolling what they wear! Its insanely ludicrous and I'd quite enjoy seeing anyone explain to Gareth Thomas that being gay involved being feminine.

Will you go back and see that I've been on about letting your son out in a dress in public and the harm that will cause.
Not once did I say I would suppress or force the gay out of anyone but I did say I wouldn't encourage cross dressing in public.
I have not brought gay men into this anywhere the 2 I referred to are not men anymore there both transgender.
Stop using the word gay when referring to my posts as they have not been about gay men.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just to be clear I have not mentioned anything about a gay child.

Yet you brought up disease rates and mental issues in that community for seemingly no actual reason. So I am not sure you can so easily revise history as to how the subject came up.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

My posts have been about cross dressing young boys in public.

Yet the thread is about such boys choosing _themselves_ to dress in this fashion. So not clear why you are modifying the topic to suit yourself.

Yet you declared doing this would cause "mental issues" and is "mental abuse" but you appear to be retreating from both of those statements now in your ongoing refusal to support them with anything at all.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Stop using the word gay when referring to my posts as they have not been about gay men.

Once again _you_ made comments about disease and other issues in the "LGBT" community. You do know what the G stands for there right? If so - I am not sure why you wish to keep pretending you never mentioned them.

drunkmonkey

Zillah wrote: »

No one is contesting that life as a gay or transgender person isn't harder than being a regular Joe.

Drunkmonkey, can you answer this question please, because it's come up a few times and seems to be at the heart of this: do you think you can influence the chances of your son being gay or transgender?

Gay no I very much doubt it but I never said anything about influencing anyone about being gay. Your associating gay with femininity which I think is wrong.

Transgender, I don't understand it, if it comes up though I will try and have an influence. Would I allow a pre pubecent child to start gender changing therapy just to make them happy, absolutely not.

silverharp

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is interesting and perhaps telling about the fragility of masculinity that a conversation about femininity quickly devolved into a discussion about gay people and, worse still, we seem to have an individual on here suggesting that one can force the gay out of a child by patrolling what they wear! Its insanely ludicrous and I'd quite enjoy seeing anyone explain to Gareth Thomas that being gay involved being feminine.

I've heard that expression but never bothered to look it up but you seem to be using it as a shaming techneque in that all men have x weakness? So what's wrong with all men then, go on vent?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet you brought up disease rates and mental issues in that community for seemingly no actual reason. So I am not sure you can so easily revise history as to how the subject came up.



Yet the thread is about such boys choosing _themselves_ to dress in this fashion. So not clear why you are modifying the topic to suit yourself.

Yet you declared doing this would cause "mental issues" and is "mental abuse" but you appear to be retreating from both of those statements now in your ongoing refusal to support them with anything at all.



Once again _you_ made comments about disease and other issues in the "LGBT" community. You do know what the G stands for there right? If so - I am not sure why you wish to keep pretending you never mentioned them.

It's cross dressing we're talking about, it's specifically the T I was referring to in all my posts.

drunkmonkey

Nice to see you are only ignoring _some_ posts not all.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's cross dressing we're talking about, it's specifically the T I was referring to in all my posts.

And yet - I repeat - you brought up disease statistics in the LGBT community. Without any citation. Why bring that community up at all? If you are only talking about the T - then why mentioned disease at all? Is there some figures showing high rates of disease or mental issues in the "T" community? You have offered none despite me asking - what - 6 times now? 8? I have lost count.

jobbridge4life

silverharp wrote: »

I've heard that expression but never bothered to look it up but you seem to be using it as a shaming techneque in that all men have x weakness? So what's wrong with all men then, go on vent?

God no that is certainly not what I meant and I apologise for giving that impression. When I said 'the fragility of masculinity' I was refering to the sensitivity of some men and in particular the kind of toxic hyper masculine archetype that is particularly rigid in its expectations of behaviour.

IE you must like sports, you must act tough, you must be physically strong, you must brave to the point of fool hardy, you can't like 'wimmins films', you can't have a soft or high pitched voice, you can't like flowers etc. etc.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice to see you are only ignoring _some_ posts not all.



And yet - I repeat - you brought up disease statistics in the LGBT community. Without any citation. Why bring that community up at all? If you are only talking about the T - then why mentioned disease at all? Is there some figures showing high rates of disease or mental issues in the "T" community? You have offered none despite me asking - what - 6 times now? 8? I have lost count.

Well when they turn from posts to essays it's hard to keep up.

Are you asking me to provide proof that mental health issues and hiv effect the T more than the rest of the LGBT community?
You have read all these papers and it's never even blipped on your radar, when you said you never heard of Caitlyn Jenner I doubted you and I'm doubting you again as you know the answer to the question you posed. Your just looking to hang me out.

Mark Hamill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

My posts have been about cross dressing young boys in public.

What if your young boy wanted to cross dress only at home? No-one could see him and mock him and hurt him if it was just at home. The only ones who know about are you and your partner. You would be fine with that, right?

drunkmonkey

Mark Hamill wrote: »

What if your young boy wanted to cross dress only at home? No-one could see him and mock him and hurt him if it was just at home. The only ones who know about are you and your partner. You would be fine with that, right?

No problem in the slightest. Wouldn't bat an eyelid. Wants to push the pram fire away.
All kids do this anyway I think, it's all just clothes and toys, make up, no harm.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well when they turn from posts to essays it's hard to keep up.

I do feel genuine sympathy for your attention span issues. I guess I am used to reading papers, novels and other texts that go into 1000s of pages. So it is hard to remember sometimes that some people struggle with anything over 3 paragraphs.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Are you asking me to provide proof that mental health issues and hiv effect the T more than the rest of the LGBT community?

If that is indeed your claim then yes that is what I am asking you. But it is hard to know what you are claiming because you keep changing it. Such as moving from making a claim about disease in LGBT to talking now about just the T.

There is a _lot_ of distortions in the studies on things like HIV in LGBT. Distortions I am actually trained and experienced in parsing. So by all means cite the numbers you think you have and I will tell you if they do support what you think they do.

The group within LGBT most prone to HIV is the "MSM" community. This is a convenient category for anyone wanting to distort statistics because it includes people from the G the B and the T out of LGBT. It also includes straight men who - for reasons other than being LGBT - have sex with men.

So the "radar blip" you describe is one I am aware of - but I am also aware of _why_ it blips. It blips because this "MSM" category is readily used in a contrived fashion to give the statistical results people want to get.

No one is looking to "hang you out" here. I have no issue with you. I only have an issue with bad ideas or bad claims. And I will hang what you _claim_ out if needs be. It has _nothing_ to do with you personally and never has had.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

I do feel genuine sympathy for your attention span issues. I guess I am used to reading papers, novels and other texts that go into 1000s of pages. So it is hard to remember sometimes that some people struggle with anything over 3 paragraphs.

There have been enough warnings in this thread already. Please dial back the passive aggressive snark or stop posting.

Ave Sodalis

Drunk monkey, I'm genuinely interested in what your answer would be to your son if he was getting bullied over his hair colour or a spot?

drunkmonkey

sup_dude wrote: »

Drunk monkey, I'm genuinely interested in what your answer would be to your son if he was getting bullied over his hair colour or a spot?

I'd consult the council just like in moone boy.

Honestly don't know, my friends always looked out for me, the stongest in our group always sorted out those bully issues for a few bags of tayto's. Hope my kids friends will be just as good.

Ave Sodalis

drunkmonkey wrote:

Honestly don't know, my friends always looked out for me, the stongest in our group always sorted out those bully issues for a few bags of tayto's. Hope my kids friends will be just as good.

Then why is this any different?

jobbridge4life

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd consult the council just like in moone boy.

Honestly don't know, my friends always looked out for me, the stongest in our group always sorted out those bully issues for a few bags of tayto's. Hope my kids friends will be just as good.

What if the strongest one in his group is the one bullying him?

drunkmonkey

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What if the strongest one in his group is the one bullying him?

Then I'd sort it out with his dad.

jobbridge4life

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Then I'd sort it out with his dad.

And if the dad told you f off and sort out your queer kid?

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Honestly don't know, my friends always looked out for me, the stongest in our group always sorted out those bully issues for a few bags of tayto's. Hope my kids friends will be just as good.

That would be one of the points I made already too - that children rarely make these decisions in a vacuum. There is usually a support group - and peers - that they trust entirely or who they have sounded out before taking the "big step" of their chosen identification.

Kids of any generation usually know better than their parents what the choice will mean - who will react well - who will react bad. _WE_ as parents do not have that information so as I keep saying on the thread - those parents probably have their heart very much in the right place with how some of them react.

But kids do not know everything either, nor can they predict every reaction from every choice exactly. And that is where a decision has to be made and made well as parents. Do we close down their choice before it is implemented so they never find out. Or do we teach them to deal with what comes as best we can and guide them through the process.

And we have to understand the result of that choice too. Not just from the perspective of what they will experience in school or elsewhere - but from the perspective of them growing to be the person they are - rather than having to suppress it or hide it or lie about it. And we have to measure the effects of our lack of faith in them - judgement of them - or not accepting them for who they are too.

It is all massively complex and contextual and difficult stuff. Much more so than a single hard and fast rule like some presented on the thread would suggest. Parenting is more a balancing act with more balls than is possible to juggle - than a hard and fast list of "If X then Y" rules in stone.

drunkmonkey

sup_dude wrote: »

Then why is this any different?

I don't think you can draw parallels between a spot and a dress. They'd both go down very differently at lunch time.

drunkmonkey

jobbridge4life wrote: »

And if the dad told you f off and sort out your queer kid?

That's a paddling.