Online dating

poa

I joined pof.com 2 weeks ago and have had the best and worst of messages. Today I went on my first date from there, we got on well but there was no chemistry; so I don't think we will have a second date. I think it can work well, but its one of those things that you get out of it what you put in. The more you trawl the site and message, the more you will get dates; some good, some bad.
I suppose one just has to keep going on dates until someone right comes up.
I do think it's a better way to meet someone than the traditional routes of pubs/clubs, or work. Since I gave up work that way is gone anyway. I prefer to meet people sober and get to see what they are really like, rather than when tipsy or drunk as they can be very different to the sober version.
My friend met his partner online, and they both had a tough time with bad dates before meeting each other. That's just the way it is, the luck of the draw really.
I do recognise some familiar faces from my town, and they are telling huge lies on their profiles. Saying they work when they are on the dole, don't smoke but do, and worst of all hiding they have kids.
Some of them are telling a few little white lies which is OK, but some lie about everything which I think is bad.
Its early days for me, but I enjoyed my date today.

poa

Genuine question, is it the done thing to have a chat on the phone before a first date?
Or does one meet after online texting only usually?
With my date today we chatted online for a week, then had a chat on the phone for about half an hour; and then fixed a date.
I was thinking it's better to chat before meeting to get more of an idea what they are really like.

poa

Debtocracy wrote: »

This is why online dating doesn’t work in the vast majority of cases: So take a girl who is 5/10. Because all men look like rapists online and because of female hypergamy, she will only talk with an 8/10 guy or above (only 20% of guys are rated above average attractiveness online).

So the 8/10 guy and 5/10 girl get talking and go on a date. While the 8/10 guy is happy to get a date, he is probably not going to consider the girl as relationship material (he’d rather an 8/10 girl but she won’t talk to him). As such, his main motivation is to have sex with this girl rather than form any meaningful relationship. The 5/10 girl therefore concludes that all men are pigs and that there’s no good men out there, with the average nice guy barely registering on her radar (by ‘nice guy’ she means attractive, tall, wealthy nice guy).

This phenomena of female hypergamy is becoming more prevalent in general. There’s articles aplenty these days about how there’s no good men left, with women even attributing gender population discrepancies and higher proportions of gay men to account for the lack of good men. Interestingly, the main reason women attribute freezing their ovaries is not because of career progression, but because they cannot find a suitable partner. At the same time, men are increasing their standards for commitment and marriage so the mathematics are getting even worse – the amount of single people is increasing rapidly across the Western World and no amount of online dating apps can stem the tide.

Fascinating post, many thanks for it. I think it is insightful, and probably very accurate.
I know my sister certainly would fall into this type when she was seeking a husband.
She was very open about it too, must be over 5 feet 10", 50K minimum job, good profession, no previous marriage/kids. And of course 8/10
Fortunately she met a man who ticked all her boxes and they are now married 16 years with 2 kids. But it was tough going for her many dates due to her high standards.
I can see why women would get fed up of all the c.ock pics and hi messages though.
And then decent men get fed up they never get replies due to being somewhere in a full inbox of c.ock pics etc.
I joined pof.com 3 weeks ago and get a message every couple of days from someone new.
I suppose if I was female I would get maybe 10 new ones per day or something?
Any idea what the ratio men to women is on there? I am thinking it must be 70/30 men/women.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

poa

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I suppose it works both ways. I have noticed a lot of GAA/rugby girl fans, and guys that are into yoga and mindfulness etc.
A carefully crafted list of fake interests could be a honeypot indeed.
I had a date today and about half her profile was fake, but I didn't mind as she was nice enough. I sort of expect a few white lies really, so I don't care too much.
But some of the women in my town that say non smoker or no kids, when I know they are the opposite; that is taking the p.iss.

Ally Dick

I find online dating and Tinder as a service for the young, the vain and the horny. I tried speed dating once and enjoyed the process, but had limited success ! However I'd rather face to face meetings than the whole internet thing. If I was still single, I would probably go with Elite Singles or something like that, if I was struggling !

I find online dating to be a wonderful tool for meeting people and having your mind opened. With the right attitude there can be excitement and a lot of fun. So many people have met their partners through online dating sites. One of the best relationships I had came about that way and I met one of my now best friend's.

On the matter of high standards, one thing which forever baffles me is this need for a partner who has a flash car, a high earning position, own their own home, must be of a particular height, must look a particular way. I realise that we all have different wants and what's important to me isn't important to someone else.

But yet.
Surely when all is said and done what matters is how you make each other feel? That when the shít hits the fan you are there for each other? That your insides match his insides?

One of the ways I know that I really like a man is when I want to tell him about all the things I love and wish for. I want to show him my favourite books and let him listen to my favourite songs and read the poems that are stuck around my room. It will never be because he earns x amount of money and drives an audi.

poa

Deleted User wrote: »

I find online dating to be a wonderful tool for meeting people and having your mind opened. With the right attitude there can be excitement and a lot of fun. So many people have met their partners through online dating sites. One of the best relationships I had came about that way and I met one of my now best friend's.

On the matter of high standards, one thing which forever baffles me is this need for a partner who has a flash car, a high earning position, own their own home, must be of a particular height, must look a particular way. I realise that we all have different wants and what's important to me isn't important to someone else.

But yet.
Surely when all is said and done what matters is how you make each other feel? That when the shít hits the fan you are there for each other? That your insides match his insides?

One of the ways I know that I really like a man is when I want to tell him about all the things I love and wish for. I want to show him my favourite books and let him listen to my favourite songs and read the poems that are stuck around my room. It will never be because he earns x amount of money and drives an audi.

Interesting insight into a woman's perspective. I have noticed this from dating, younger women tend to be more focussed on a man's looks. By younger I mean say up to 25. But older women say 30 onwards tend to be less interested in a man's looks; but more in his job and earning power. Reason being they want a man that can provide for them, and their children. The under 25's don't care what car the man drives, or what he does for a living.
But the older a woman gets, and more broody she is; she hunts the provider not the looker.
I have seen the finest of women in my town with real runts of men. Short, ugly, and treat them like a piece or meat. But they have money, and status locally. And they can certainly provide for their women and kids. And when all is said and done, that fine women doesn't need a hottie who is skint all the time. They need a man that can deliver the goods and pay for the finer things in life.
I am not suggesting that all women think like this, but I know my own sister wouldn't give a man a look in unless he was on 50K minimum per year; and was a Guard/Doctor/Lawyer, etc.
Looks weren't the priority, but when she turned 30 and was broody the hunt was on for a provider.
At 39 I am realising this more, as I date women that are say 35-40. They are now looking for a stable man, with no debt, no kids, and solvent.
In simple terms I have found the formula; more money=more p.ussy, less money=less p.ussy, to be proven true time after time.
Women soon forget looks when they see you have money. And I suppose some men are the same.

The Young Wan

Been at it about a year and a half now. I have some nice stories, some horror stories. But unfortunately, it's the only way I can see myself meeting someone.

poa

poa wrote: »

In simple terms I have found the formula; more money=more p.ussy, less money=less p.ussy, to be proven true time after time.
Women soon forget looks when they see you have money. And I suppose some men are the same.

I'm 34 and plenty of money doesn't matter an iota to me.

As for your "formula"? Well I'm not sure how to comment on that.

cantdecide

I always think about a friend of mine when I think about online dating- if you meet him, he likes to come across as a jack the lad type- he was a used car salesman with all the flashy clothes and the corresponding bants. He never lacked attention from the ladies and had some fun times in the context of online dating. He was once telling me about his new love interest and he introduced me to her and she seemed, well, a bit shallow, all about image, a bit highly strung, liked my mate treating her to the high life and initially, I was worried that she was taking advantage of my mate's good nature.

What's hilarious about them is that under it all, they're two of the most warm, empathetic, open, decent human beings you could ever meet and they're madly in love. You would never know this if you met them once but after some extensive peacocking on both sider, they managed to find each other and have a fantastic relationship.

In the context of online dating, it kind of proves to me that your true character kind of has to take a back seat in favour of portraying a kind of idealised version of yourself in the hope of finding some kind of idealised compatible counterpart. If you can get to this state and it devolves past the subterfuge into a true connection then it can be wonderful.

In my case, I can't do peacocking and I'm not great at the bants. I like to connect with someone and find the common ground and get to know the person before me... which apparently is a love killer. In other words, if you're good at playing the game, you'll be good at online dating.

The Masculinist

It's a massive sausage fest, end of.

cantdecide

cantdecide wrote: »

In the context of online dating, it kind of proves to me that your true character kind of has to take a back seat in favour of portraying a kind of idealised version of yourself in the hope of finding some kind of idealised compatible counterpart. If you can get to this state and it devolves past the subterfuge into a true connection then it can be wonderful.

In my case, I can't do peacocking and I'm not great at the bants. I like to connect with someone and find the common ground and get to know the person before me... which apparently is a love killer. In other words, if you're good at playing the game, you'll be good at online dating.

I have never before come across a person who doesn't believe in doing exactly as you describe above. I don't play the game. People who I'm close to don't play the game. Men I've dated and went on to have relationships with don't play the game.

Do you really believe that you must present an idealised version of yourself?

KERSPLAT!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As for your "formula"? Well I'm not sure how to comment on that.

Horse****!?

KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Horse****!?

Pretty much.

cantdecide

Deleted User wrote: »

I have never before come across a person who doesn't believe in doing exactly as you describe above. I don't play the game. People who I'm close to don't play the game. Men I've dated and went on to have relationships with don't play the game.

Do you really believe that you must present an idealised version of yourself?

I refer only to my experience. If your experience differs, I respect that. I've known some wonderful people (mainly guys) that portray themselves accurately and get nowhere. IME, from a male perspective, if you don't appear confidence in abundance (a trait I don't especially value- I think there are better traits to aspire to), you're screwed. Those that feign confidence get places and those that don't, don't. I could fake it myself and get places but the truth would eventually come out, of course

Maybe being crap at online dating and a general air of cynicism go hand in hand or maybe I'm ugly with a tedious personality :pac:

I was out tonight( not on a date) meeting friends, I would never meet a man like this, because
1. I was meeting and catching up with friends
2. Most of the guys I saw tonight were drunk, I won't give them the time of day.

Online is great, because you meet people you might never meet normally & mostly they are sober when ye do meet up!

+1 to online!
My brother met his girlfriend online, now they have a 7 month old baby!

Mister Vain

poa wrote: »

In simple terms I have found the formula; more money=more p.ussy, less money=less p.ussy, to be proven true time after time.
Women soon forget looks when they see you have money.

Well I'm loaded and I haven't found that to be the case at all. Then again I don't really flaunt it. I drive a reasonably priced car and I dress casually. I used to drive a flashy sports car but it didn't make much difference with the ladies, instead it got me the wrong sort of attention.

When you meet a woman for the first time she is not going to know you have money unless you're picking her up outside her house in your Lexus. First impressions count and if you're confident and a good talker you'll do better. I've found joking, making them laugh and just not giving a fcuk to be the best way as I'm more relaxed when I do this.

I've also had the most success in work. Bars, clubs and online dating just haven't worked for me, although I have met some great people on facebook and meetup.

Chain Smoker

cantdecide wrote: »

I refer only to my experience. If your experience differs, I respect that. I've known some wonderful people (mainly guys) that portray themselves accurately and get nowhere. IME, from a male perspective, if you don't appear confidence in abundance (a trait I don't especially value- I think there are better traits to aspire to), you're screwed. Those that feign confidence get places and those that don't, don't. I could fake it myself and get places but the truth would eventually come out, of course

Maybe being crap at online dating and a general air of cynicism go hand in hand or maybe I'm ugly with a tedious personality :pac:

Confidence certainly helps, but I think it's easy to mix up not being at ease with yourself as lacking in confidence, and that's more down to how well the two of you interact than your self-esteem, usually.

Just about every first date type thing where I felt comfortable with the other person resulted in a second date or the offer of one. I doubt I came across as being at all confident but I'm sure I seemed pretty genuine. Similarly, I'm not at all attractive (therefore will likely be dismissed out of hand by like 80% of people I'd message*) but I can generally tell when I send a message when it's going to get a response by how effortlessly I typed it.

Likewise, I've had absolutely no interest in seeing someone again if I felt like I didn't get a read on what they're normally like. Well, if they're exceptionally attractive and my ego needs a bit of a boost, I might, but even then enduring 3 or 4 hours of a horribly boring conversation just isn't worth it.



*not a jab there, I do the exact same thing, that's just how it works. I'll try if it's especially nice message but it's really really rare that I'll be swayed.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Is it absolutely nerve wracking meeting someone from online for the very first time? I'd think confidence is key. You don't need to be the richest guy in the world, or the best looking guy in the world, but a little bit of confidence goes a long way.

cantdecide

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Confidence certainly helps, but I think it's easy to mix up not being at ease with yourself as lacking in confidence, and that's more down to how well the two of you interact than your self-esteem, usually.

Precisely. I think there is a far greater divide between confidence and self esteem and I think people are happy to make lazy assumptions about people who have confidence and people who are not. I could feign confidence but it would be a lie- no way to start a relationship of any type.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Is it absolutely nerve wracking meeting someone from online for the very first time?

Not really. You're both on the same page and it's better to do a coffee date or something like that. It's always better to get the first date out of the way.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I'd think confidence is key. You don't need to be the richest guy in the world, or the best looking guy in the world, but a little bit of confidence goes a long way.

Out of the mouths of babes. My very point- bring about confidence, fake it if you have to, and good things will follow. If you don't subscribe, your lack of perceived confidence will be construed as flaw and good things won't happen. IMO, confidence is the cherry on the cake and shouldn't come before other qualities.

Wibbs

Mister Vain wrote: »

unless you're picking her up outside her house in your Lexus.

Alan Partridge alert! :eek::D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsBV2EgJ-E

Only kidding. Nice old bus they are.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

cantdecide wrote: »

Precisely. I think there is a far greater divide between confidence and self esteem and I think people are happy to make lazy assumptions about people who have confidence and people who are not. I could feign confidence but it would be a lie- no way to start a relationship of any type.



Not really. You're both on the same page and it's better to do a coffee date or something like that. It's always better to get the first date out of the way.



Out of the mouths of babes. My very point- bring about confidence, fake it if you have to, and good things will follow. If you don't subscribe, your lack of perceived confidence will be construed as flaw and good things won't happen. IMO, confidence is the cherry on the cake and shouldn't come before other qualities.

I'd agree. Initially anyway. I wouldn't be interested in the slightest in an insecure man. I'd like him to know what he wants and know his own worth. Later on in the relationship, when you get to know each other better, I like it when he's confident enough to let you know he's not confident about everything. Like how he might have been bullied as a kid over the colour of his eyes (for example) and how they might not be his favourite thing about himself now. Showing a bit of vulnerability isn't weak at all.

But I wouldn't be interested in someone full of hang ups from the get go.

cantdecide

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I'd agree. Initially anyway. I wouldn't be interested in the slightest in an insecure man. I'd like him to know what he wants and know his own worth.

Just to keep my point in context, I think it's pertinent to mention that if someone doesn't project confidence, I don't think it's necessarily a reflection of their position on their self worth. If someone does have low self worth/ self esteem issues, regardless of their confidence level, it's not necessarily a positive to hitch your wagon to them.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Later on in the relationship, when you get to know each other better, I like it when he's confident enough to let you know he's not confident about everything. Like how he might have been bullied as a kid over the colour of his eyes (for example) and how they might not be his favourite thing about himself now. Showing a bit of vulnerability isn't weak at all.

But I wouldn't be interested in someone full of hang ups from the get go.

I think you're insinuating that if there are obvious hangups initially, then it's the thin end of the wedge and more will come out. If this is what you mean, then I'd put it to you that you may be a little unfair. Think of a work situation; you may meet someone and be concerned that they seem a little insecure and be a little wary of them. Later, it turns out that it's just skin deep and you get along with them. I think most people have had this kind of scenario with people they must interact with that they wouldn't necessarily choose to associate with given a free choice.

In the dating context, I think if there's an expectation of a process where certain behaviours are expected and valued at certain stages but then I think this can a) leave those that don't conform to these expectations at a disadvantage (unfairly, is my point) and b) these expectations can be exploited.


My point is this, in essence; do individuals evaluate the assumptions that they make about people who are confident and unconfident and is it fair to judge someone on these assumptions? My experience says that making judgments about people on the confidence they project is completely accepted and normal but essentially unfair.

That's all I have to say on the matter and I am still open to other perspectives, however, thusfar, I remain unconvinced that automatically holding projection of confidence in high value is productive.

EDIT: my thought for the day in a nutshell;

You meet someone who projects confidence and you feel good about them. You meet someone who doesn't project confidence and you don't feel as good about them. What assumptions are you making about these two individuals and if you really think about it, are you happy about making these assumptions and judgments?

Personally, I don't make any assumptions or judgments about people based on the confidence they do or don't project and I have never had reason to regret this stance.

the evasion_kid

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I'd agree. Initially anyway. I wouldn't be interested in the slightest in an insecure man. I'd like him to know what he wants and know his own worth. Later on in the relationship, when you get to know each other better, I like it when he's confident enough to let you know he's not confident about everything. Like how he might have been bullied as a kid over the colour of his eyes (for example) and how they might not be his favourite thing about himself now. Showing a bit of vulnerability isn't weak at all.

But I wouldn't be interested in someone full of hang ups from the get go.

This normally is the death knell in a relationship in my experience,and id advise against it,it's a double standard,but it what it is....

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I'm not really understanding can't decide
Are you saying that just because he's not outwardly confident that doesn't mean he doesn't know his self worth?

I guess what I mean is, if I'm texting a guy and he needs constant reassurance
"Am I annoying you?"
"No wonder I'm single, the state of me"
Unable to accept a compliment at face value, needy. Ugh! Could not be dealing.

I like when someone is self assured.
"I like your eyes". A simple thanks will do. No need to tell me how squinty they are or point out the black bags underneath them.

I would consider myself a confident girl. I mean, I know my strengths and I recognise my weakness. I'm not the best looking girl in the world, I certainly don't have the best body in the world, I'm not the funniest girl in the world, I'm a bit narcestic, but I've plenty to be confident about all the same. I don't need anyone to massage my ego and I certainly don't have the time or energy to massage someone else's.

Guys lacking in confidence are probably going to hate me in a relationship anyway. I'll want to go out at weekends by myself (well without him), I'll want to go do things with my friends. I'll want to spend evenings at the cinema with my friends. I have quite a few male friends, that i wouldn't jeprodise for a relationship. If you're not confident you'll constantly be worried he/she could do better. Myself and my oh went to Canada last summer. I have a close friend living there, bit of history very far back, he's married now, I'm almost married. I went out for dinner and spent time with him a few evenings of the holiday, while my partner went off and met some old friends he had made when he lived there. He didn't care who I was eating with. Similarly he wasn't home til 7 this morning. I'm snapping he woke me but I'm not bothered he stayed out all night. He's gonna cheat on me? His loss.

I've probably gone off on a tangent there, and of course confident guys will cheat, but I just feel insecurity breeds jealousy and just causes arguements.
And sometimes you'll need a man that'll be able to stand up to you, and put you in your place when you're pushing your luck, but still make you feel like the most important girl in the world. And you need confidence to do that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

the evasion_kid wrote: »

This normally is the death knell in a relationship in my experience,and id advise against it,it's a double standard,but it what it is....

Really???

TerrorFirmer

the evasion_kid wrote: »

This normally is the death knell in a relationship in my experience,and id advise against it,it's a double standard,but it what it is....

Sounds like you have some issues yourself to be honest! :eek:

poa

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Is it absolutely nerve wracking meeting someone from online for the very first time? I'd think confidence is key. You don't need to be the richest guy in the world, or the best looking guy in the world, but a little bit of confidence goes a long way.

I have to turn my confidence down from 11 to 10 for a date. Women find me being cheeky, dominant, cocky, a real turn on. So I have to play it cool initially.
I have always found making a woman laugh is the key. I have had them p.issing themselves laughing on a first date. And one can literally make a girl laugh her pants off and into bed.
Women want a man to be a man, not wear skinny jeans with a hipster beard.
I often think women find character traits their father had to be attractive; say he was funny or confident, they yearn for that in a partner.

cantdecide

poa wrote: »

Women want a man to be a man.

Definitely true, IME. Conforming to expectations of manhood rather than humanity is my view. Absolutely the prerogative of the individual but it's kind of an elephant in the room IMO.

poa wrote: »

I have to turn my confidence down from 11 to 10 for a date. Women find me being cheeky, dominant, cocky, a real turn on. So I have to play it cool initially.
I have always found making a woman laugh is the key. I have had them p.issing themselves laughing on a first date. And one can literally make a girl laugh her pants off and into bed.
Women want a man to be a man, not wear skinny jeans with a hipster beard.
I often think women find character traits their father had to be attractive; say he was funny or confident, they yearn for that in a partner.

There is a lot in here and I'm not sure I agree with lots of it but you can't argue with results- very generally, women will respond to men that can perform. Character and traits come later and confidence is key whether I agree or disagree.

When I'm in a relationship, her friends think I'm mister wonderful. When I'm single, I'm no longer relationship material. I'm much better at being in a relationship. Getting into a relationship is and almost distinct sets of behaviours, IME.