Five dead in Buncrana accident

Stheno

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I havnt seen anything other than the snippets on the radio news. Were the people from Donegal and Irish (Republic)? Just thought it was odd it]f they were that Martin McGuinness was over visiting the woman who lost her family and while maybe not the way it was meant, describing it as having the horrible "duty" of offering condolences. Did he know the family? If he didnt it seems odd to be involved at all/

Personalty I'd have no interest in politician I didnt know, nevermind one that isnt even a representative in Ireland , showing up for a photo op at the funeral of my loved ones , worse again showing up at my front door the day after it happened. The local priest was on the radio giving an interview and talking about his conversation with the mother and funeral arrangements. The people arent even dead 12 hours at that stage.

They were from Derry

fatknacker

Yeah fair enough it is rare, but it's the second time in a few days this has happened and the thoughts of how quickly it can happen is terrifying.

retro:electro

The man who rescued the baby was on the news there. He is awful shook up god love him he is clearly traumatised and has stitches on his feet. He feels terrible that he couldnt do more. He also said that the father of the family was out of the car at one stage but went back in to help the others.

cdeb

velo.2010 wrote: »

Regarding the doors not opening. I believe that a car has to go under to equalise the pressure inside and outside for the doors to open with some force. It would have been impossible to open them even if the water only came halfway up.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but there was a bit on Top Gear years back about this - in the tests they (Hammond) did, it was shown that the best thing to do is to open the doors and get out as quickly as possible. Don't wait for pressure to equalise (which means letting the car fill up with water) - it doesn't work. Problem is the pressure will only equalise once you reach the floor. Until then, the external pressure is always increasing, and the internal pressure is always catching up.

It can also happen very, very quickly - 30 seconds from hitting water to gone under for the car in the Top Gear test.

Not going to link it here for obvious reasons, but it was actually a very interesting test.

Obviously can't imagine what it must have been like - the shock from the cold, in the dark, not really understanding what was going on I would imagine, your whole family in the car. Heartbreaking stuff.

Edit - I see the above test was mentioned a couple of pages after the OP. Still, I've added a bit more detail, so maybe worth keeping there.

diomed

I carry a centre spring punch in my car.
If doors can't be opened (my car or another car) it can be used to shatter the window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv0UU66CbU

HiGlo

I'm the same as many others here. This tragedy has been playing on my mind all day today. It's quite upsetting and I can't even imagine the trauma for that poor woman/mother.

Fair play to that guy for swimming out. I noticed on the initial report last night he had asked reporters not to name him (I read a Daily Mail article about 11pm) but the older man who's been all over the radio today actually named him (inadvertently I'd guess) on his interview with Anton Savage this morning.

It's just such a random accident. The thoughts of the fear and panic those people must have felt has been playing on my mind all day...
Such an awful situation, for everyone involved.....

wokingvoter

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I havnt seen anything other than the snippets on the radio news. Were the people from Donegal and Irish (Republic)? Just thought it was odd it]f they were that Martin McGuinness was over visiting the woman who lost her family and while maybe not the way it was meant, describing it as having the horrible "duty" of offering condolences. Did he know the family? If he didnt it seems odd to be involved at all/

Personalty I'd have no interest in politician I didnt know, nevermind one that isnt even a representative in Ireland , showing up for a photo op at the funeral of my loved ones , worse again showing up at my front door the day after it happened. The local priest was on the radio giving an interview and talking about his conversation with the mother and funeral arrangements. The people arent even dead 12 hours at that stage.

RTE/NEWSTALK door stepped the priest
He described the funeral arrangements which are complicated by the fact that it's Holy Week
The funeral arrangements are not private and confidential
They'll be on the Derry newspapers tomorrow and on Donegal radio too
He spoke in general terms about his efforts to console a shocked grieving family
You haven't taken the time to read that the family are constituents of Martin McGuiness and most likely SF voters but you spot a chance to criticise and you just can't pass it up
Well done

Guy:Incognito

wokingvoter wrote: »

RTE/NEWSTALK door stepped the priest
He described the funeral arrangements which are complicated by the fact that it's Holy Week
The funeral arrangements are not private and confidential
They'll be on the Derry newspapers tomorrow and on Donegal radio too
He spoke in general terms about his efforts to console a shocked grieving family
You haven't taken the time to read that the family are constituents of Martin McGuiness and most likely SF voters but you spot a chance to criticise and you just can't pass it up
Well done

The interview I heard was a live phone one with Matt Cooper on Today FM (I think, I tend to flick around stations, but it definitely wasnt RTE). He was talking and answering questions about the woman.

I dont have time for politicians rocking up and involving themselves in my affairs, which is my personal opinion. It's not a road that needs fixing or a problem in the community so just like any other random stranger , I dont need them telling me how sorry they are that my loved ones who they didnt know died, whether I'm a constituent of theirs or not. It's no different to people giving out about politicians dropping in to disaster zones to get their faces on the tv (it's worse if anything)

Maybe the woman is fine with it, I didnt know anything about her or the family, which is why I asked.

eviltwin

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The interview I heard was a live phone one with Matt Cooper on Today FM. He was talking and answering questions about the woman.

I dont have time for politicians rocking up and involving themselves in my affairs, which is my personal opinion. It's not a road that needs fixing or a problem in the community so just like any other random stranger , I dont need them telling me how sorry they are that my loved ones who they didnt know died, whether I'm a constituent of theirs or not.

Maybe the woman is fine with it, I didnt know anything about her or the family, which is why I asked.

They don't just rock up. Their representatives check with a family representative to ensure its okay. If he went you can assume the family and Ms Daniels were okay with that.

maudgonner

Can we please not have this thread turn into a Sinn Fein (or other political parties) bashing/loving thread? Any other thread, grand, but not this one?

KERSPLAT!

Mod

maudgonner wrote: »

Can we please not have this thread turn into a Sinn Fein (or other political parties) bashing/loving thread? Any other thread, grand, but not this one?

This.

A Dub in Glasgo

Just seen this, what an appalling tragedy, RIP

murpho999

Just saw the news on RTE and the interviews with the locals.

Really is very sad and tragic. Especially the story by Davitt Walsh and the father going back for the kids. Heartbreaking.

Do wish RTE would leave the religion and bishops out of it though.

Jayop

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/1264819520213714/

That's tough to watch. The RTE interview with the lad who saved the baby. Poor guy is very badly shook.

KERSPLAT!

Jayop wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/1264819520213714/

That's tough to watch. The RTE interview with the lad who saved the baby. Poor guy is very badly shook.

Heartbreaking.

Discodog

All the escape advice is good but there is a massive problem. Cold water makes us gasp instinctively. People that fall into cold water often drown in seconds because of the gasp reflex. Professional, rescue workers etc train to take a breath before entering the water.

In my opinion the blame lies with whomever was responsible for the slipway being accessible.

retro:electro

Discodog wrote: »

All the escape advice is good but there is a massive problem. Cold water makes us gasp instinctively. People that fall into cold water often drown in seconds because of the gasp reflex. Professional, rescue workers etc train to take a breath before entering the water.

In my opinion the blame lies with whomever was responsible for the slipway being accessible.

I don't think anyone is to blame for this. It's just a tragic accident. I'm sure if they had known there was such risk involved they would have done everything to prevent it. It's one of those things where in hindsight we can see the risk and point the finger but it's just a tragedy and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel responsible for this.

Jayop

Does there have to be blame?

promethius

I don't think it's a time for blame now, can't get over what it must have been like inside that car for those poor people in the final minutes. That guy is genuinely a hero, he absolutely didn't need to go out there and risk his own safety but did that and saved that poor baby, I hope he gets the support he needs for the next while, he's well shook and needs it.

WarZ

The fact that the father had escaped and returned to the vehicle is also a massive act of bravery. He voluntarily returned to what he must have known was certain death to comfort his children and relatives in their final moments.

Sam Kade

Discodog wrote: »

All the escape advice is good but there is a massive problem. Cold water makes us gasp instinctively. People that fall into cold water often drown in seconds because of the gasp reflex. Professional, rescue workers etc train to take a breath before entering the water.

In my opinion the blame lies with whomever was responsible for the slipway being accessible.

Just because some place is accessible doesn't mean you should park there.

holyhead

My heart goes out to the family. What a horrific tragedy. Really hope the girl finds the strength to go on. Massive credit to the man who saved the baby from the sinking car. A truly heroic thing to do considering he too could have lost his life. Great credit to the father for having the piece of mind to get the baby out to this man. Both are heroes. No point in speculating about the why's or wherefore's. For another day. Hope the man who rescued the baby can try not to think too much about those he couldn't rescue but find comfort in having saved the life of the baby.

The Black Oil

What an unimaginable tragedy and a cruel reminder of what can happen in a matter of minutes. I can only imagine the panic as the car started to go and as it sank. We've all gone out for a drive in a full car thinking nothing untoward would happen. Christ.

It's difficult to think of any words to describe it and it became harder to read as more details emerged this morning and this afternoon. Looking at the photos, there's a lot of algae on the slipway. Not looking to assign blame here, but you can see how treacherous it might be. The guy who saved the baby is understandably quite shaken and showed enormous courage. At least the young one will have no long term memory of the events.

Thanks to the emergency services who were on scene, including to the RNLI. I'm not into organised religion, but like it or not, priests are at the heart of the community and I am thankful one was called to the scene, it's more than just a procedure. It'll perhaps be of some comfort to the family. The numbness must be awful.

JustTheOne

Was it a 5 seater jeep?

Neyite

I think that model is 6 seater. Stand to be corrected though.

Such a harrowing tragedy.

The Black Oil

Lia_lia wrote: »

With regards escaping the car I wouldn't have a clue what to do. Even though I am a trained lifeguard and very strong swimmer I don't think I would survive that.

Can I ask what you mean by this? I've generally only heard 'strong/experienced swimmer' in relation to tragedies like this and it seems to be a bit of a media phrase. I assume it's not all down to strength and maybe more so ability to deal with the water as whole. Different story at sea, mind you.

failinis

This has been on my mind all day, a friend of mine rang me and said that a close friend of his (and just a mutual friend to me), was the step son of those who have passed away.
How I did not know was because its a step family, they don't share the surname (not at least when I was in school with him) -
I won't give him a ring as it feels intrusive but I just...everyone I know has had an air of sadness following them today over it all.
Such a horrible tragedy, and no point throwing blame around on such an issue.

Arkady

May their souls rest in peace. I can't stop thinking about those poor people.

“They were all screaming ‘help help help.’ I didn’t really think, I took off my clothes down to my boxers and swam out as fast as I could.

“When I got out there, the father had the window half ajar and was hitting it with his elbow trying to break it. I’m guessing the electrics broke.

Read more: School staff and pals of Buncrana pier victim engulfed in sadness as news of tragedy broke

“When the window broke, the father sat out on the ledge of the window and the water started to seep in.

“He then handed me the infant and said ‘take the baby.’ I told him I wanted to help someone else, but the water started coming in and he just looked at me and said ‘save my baby.’

“It was terrible. The baby was handed to me and the father had to make a decision, he could have saved himself because he was out of the car, but he went back into his family.

“I couldn’t do anything else, the car went down instantly."

“I took the baby and held it above my head and swam back to shore."

“I took the baby back to shore where my girlfriend was waiting. I was exhausted, I just lay on the pier on the algae "

Read more: Buncrana pier tragedy: Brave hero too upset to speak to mother of baby girl he saved

“My girlfriend stripped the baby down and got her warm with the blankets and saved the baby’s life.”

Buona Fortuna

Awful, awful. I was listening to it this morning in the car. Newstalk seemed to keep repeating the same report every 3 or 4 minutes with the same bit of audio. In the end I just had to turn it off.

The fella that went in did a very fine thing that day - he's quite a guy.

Robsweezie

Jayop wrote: »

RIP to those who died and my heart goes out to those family and friends who's lives will be in tatters after this. The buck who risked his own life to go in and save the baby is undoubtedly a hero. Someone in the car must have been more concerned with getting the kids out and saving them than getting themselves out if the baby was removed from a child seat and passed out the window.

Sick to the stomach really.


As for the debates in this thread, they're mostly pointless and probably shouldn't be happening. However there's one thing I will say is that every parent should have their kids in swimming lessons as early as possible and bring them to water as much as possible. They should also learn to swim themselves.

yes. I don't think theres any type of real discussion to be had here that could prove worthwhile. a book of condolence RIP thread seems more suitable. by allowing discussion it leaves too much room for arguing petty details,pontificating from afar, hindsight and of course the blame game. people lose the run of themselves and it justs cards, bans, warnings and ultimately thread closure.



little point saying what you WOULD do in a situation like that. once adrenaline takes over things mightn't be so clear cut.

with the Berkeley thread last time there were people asking what they were doing on the balcony, bitching about the rotten wood on the balcony and
other things. does it matter? hindsight is a great thing. it helps no one other then amateur architect. the focus should be on the lives lost. god help that woman. no words or prayers are enough.

Lia_lia

The Black Oil wrote: »

Can I ask what you mean by this? I've generally only heard 'strong/experienced swimmer' in relation to tragedies like this and it seems to be a bit of a media phrase. I assume it's not all down to strength and maybe more so ability to deal with the water as whole. Different story at sea, mind you.

I meant that I consider myself a good swimmer, I don't know what else it would mean. Maybe other people/the media mean it in a different way.

stoplooklisten

Jayop wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/1264819520213714/

That's tough to watch. The RTE interview with the lad who saved the baby. Poor guy is very badly shook.

What a hero, and his girlfriend too. Well done to all the emergency services too. Such a tragedy.

Jayop

The Black Oil wrote: »

Can I ask what you mean by this? I've generally only heard 'strong/experienced swimmer' in relation to tragedies like this and it seems to be a bit of a media phrase. I assume it's not all down to strength and maybe more so ability to deal with the water as whole. Different story at sea, mind you.

Someone who is good at swimming, has plenty of practice in the open water and would not have gotten into difficulties were it not for other extraordinary circumstances.

I'm a very strong swimmer and many years ago qualified as a lifeguard. I'd consider my experience both in pools and more importantly in the open water as something that would count towards being "strong".

Risteard81

armaghlad wrote: »

RIP. Heart breaking. Surely the pier should be closed to cars if the ferry isn't running (or has it just started up again?)

No. In fact I was parked on it yesterday afternoon. It's perfectly normal for cars to be on it.

Stheno

The Black Oil wrote: »

Can I ask what you mean by this? I've generally only heard 'strong/experienced swimmer' in relation to tragedies like this and it seems to be a bit of a media phrase. I assume it's not all down to strength and maybe more so ability to deal with the water as whole. Different story at sea, mind you.

When I trained as a lifeguard one of the tests was to swim a certain distance in open water fully clothed, about 500m.

That was classed as a strong and experienced swimmer.

Strazdas

You'd never think a slipway could be so potentially dangerous, but looking at it on the news you can see it could be a death trap for any car if the driver was unable to stop the vehicle from sliding.

That wonderful guy who dived in should be given a medal. He has given that poor mother something to cling onto and something to live for.

captbarnacles

Stheno wrote: »

When I trained as a lifeguard one of the tests was to swim a certain distance in open water fully clothed, about 500m.

That was classed as a strong and experienced swimmer.

I would consider myself a strong swimmer but not a hope I could do that!

captbarnacles

Strazdas wrote: »

You'd never think a slipway could be so potentially dangerous, but looking at it on the news you can see it could be a death trap for any car if the driver was unable to stop the vehicle from sliding.

That wonderful guy who dived in should be given a medal. He has given that poor mother something to cling onto and something to live for.

Yeah the terror of stripping off and jumping into the freezing water in the dark and knowing that not only will you be trying to keep yourself afloat and alive but also possibly unconscious victims or non swimmers. God. That man really is brave.

Stheno

captbarnacles wrote: »

I would consider myself a strong swimmer but not a hope I could do that!

captbarnacles wrote: »

Yeah the terror of stripping off and jumping into the freezing water in the dark and knowing that not only will you be trying to keep yourself afloat and alive but also possibly unconscious victims or non swimmers. God. That man really is brave.

You'd be amazed at how you react. I've been fortunate twice in my life to be able to enable someone to live. The first was when I was about 9 and came across a man who had slashed his wrists near a river in a van. I ran to the nearest public place to get him help.

The second was as a lifeguard, when a small child ended up in the deep end and in difficulties. I jumped in and got them out.

In such scenarios you forget about yourself

LynnGrace

There truly are no words to describe this tragedy. I think we can all picture times we have gone out for a drive, just enjoying a fine evening, as these people probably did, never imagining the horror that was to unfold.

Watching the news this evening I thought that two people, in particular, displayed huge courage and dignity. One was the brother of the man who died, and he spoke, onscreen, to the man who saved the baby's life, saying that he didn't know his name, but wanted to thank him for what he did.

The other was, of course, the man who saved the baby's life. As has been said, here and elsewhere the word 'hero' is often misused. That man is a true hero.

I can only, as many others have done, express my sincere condolences to the families, and hope that they get strength somehow to cope.

Victor

anna080 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is to blame for this. It's just a tragic accident. I'm sure if they had known there was such risk involved they would have done everything to prevent it. It's one of those things where in hindsight we can see the risk and point the finger but it's just a tragedy and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel responsible for this.

This was foreseeable and preventable, this is proven by the presence of the gate. Someone installed a gate so things like this wouldn't happen. Bus someone left it open. While one might not want to engage in vindictive action against those involved, at the same time, one needs to face up to the realities of (a) people died and (b) we don't want further people to die.

retro:electro

Victor wrote: »

This was foreseeable and preventable, this is proven by the presence of the gate. Someone installed a gate so things like this wouldn't happen. Bus someone left it open. While one might not want to engage in vindictive action against those involved, at the same time, one needs to face up to the realities of (a) people died and (b) we don't want further people to die.

I know. But if you look around there are risks everywhere, but for me this falls under the category of a tragic accident. I would not want anyone to go to bed tonight feeling responsible for this tragedy.

Yillan

Stheno wrote: »

You'd be amazed at how you react. I've been fortunate twice in my life to be able to enable someone to live. The first was when I was about 9 and came across a man who had slashed his wrists near a river in a van. I ran to the nearest public place to get him help.

The second was as a lifeguard, when a small child ended up in the deep end and in difficulties. I jumped in and got them out.

In such scenarios you forget about yourself

Neither particularly sound like particularly dangerous situations for you. Not to take away from the fact you may have saved a life there, but in either scenario if you had remembered yourself, would you not have done the same thing? I don't see the parallels between the bravery of the man in Donegal, and you calling an ambulance, and doing your job as a lifeguard in a swimming pool.

Keane2baMused

This tragedy has really cut deep yet I don't know the family who lost their lives.

Shedding some tears for their tragic loss and cuddling my babies that bit closer tonight.

TallGlass

I do hope that something is done that this type of incident never happens again not only at this location but any location that could have this issue.

I just hope these people didn't die in vein and a real solution is too come along with maybe education for others on what is the best thing to do in these situations? Should at first signs of trouble just abandon the car/jeep or stay with it. If I was in the same situation I wouldn't have any idea, any would be going off what I seen on busters.

Or even some type of equipment for people who use there cars near the sea that if they get into a difficult situation, they can activate something that makes the cars inflatable, maybe something similar to a rib that once pressed makes the car/jeep ready for water by filling up bags like a rib around the vehicle. I don't know, but I feel so sorry for the family that I would never like to hear something similar again.

TallGlass

Thinking about it more, an even simpler solution would be say to install some type of locking device. Maybe a small wall or a raised ramp even having to attach your car to a wire and once it goes over a certain distance it automatically locks stopping it going to far down the ramp.

Grid.

Horrible tragedy....God love them.:(

HeidiHeidi

Jesus, what is it with having to torture the bereaved with personal interviews right after every incident? :mad:

I'm listening to the brother of the man who died being interviewed, struggling for words, yet the interviewer keeps asking questions. I heard direct quotes from his bereaved partner on the radio earlier, I presume some journo got to her as well overnight.

RTE hotfooted it up to the scene and broadcast half the 6 One news last night from the pier.

Is this really what we as news consumers have become these days, that we demand that level of intrusion on a tragically - utterly tragically, I just can't think of any word for it - bereaved family?

I've said it before in this thread - report the news by all means, but for the love of God leave the families to grieve in some sort of privacy :mad:

NIMAN

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Jesus, what is it with having to torture the bereaved with personal interviews right after every incident? :mad:

I'm listening to the brother of the man who died being interviewed, struggling for words, yet the interviewer keeps asking questions. I heard direct quotes from his bereaved partner on the radio earlier, I presume some journo got to her as well overnight.

RTE hotfooted it up to the scene and broadcast half the 6 One news last night from the pier.

Is this really what we as news consumers have become these days, that we demand that level of intrusion on a tragically - utterly tragically, I just can't think of any word for it - bereaved family?

I've said it before in this thread - report the news by all means, but for the love of God leave the families to grieve in some sort of privacy :mad:

Totally agree, it seems to be a reecent thing in our news, probably influenced by the US news.

I don't see why Sharon Ni Bheolain had to be at the actual scene of the tragedy. Do they think its important and adds to the reporting? I thought it was tacky and tasteless,nothing else.

As for the brother of the man who died giving an interview, perhaps he wanted to give that interview to thank the guy who saved the baby? The fact that he didn't even know the guys name when the rest of us did shows that he was obviously concerned with other things, but perhaps he wanted to say what he did to camera? I am sure the family will meet with him at a later date.

Unfortunately it is now the nature of news, everyone wants to get as close and personal to tragedies as possible. Come Thursday, there will be loads of media at the funerals, pointing their cameras at the grieving. I can't see any media outlet not attending for fear of missing a picture that some other newspaper or channel gets.

Buona Fortuna

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Jesus, what is it with having to torture the bereaved with personal interviews right after every incident? :mad:

I'm listening to the brother of the man who died being interviewed, struggling for words, yet the interviewer keeps asking questions. I heard direct quotes from his bereaved partner on the radio earlier, I presume some journo got to her as well overnight.

RTE hotfooted it up to the scene and broadcast half the 6 One news last night from the pier.

Is this really what we as news consumers have become these days, that we demand that level of intrusion on a tragically - utterly tragically, I just can't think of any word for it - bereaved family?

I've said it before in this thread - report the news by all means, but for the love of God leave the families to grieve in some sort of privacy :mad:

Journos can be total cnuts.

Years ago something happened where my wife worked. You would not believe the phonecalls and bogus commercial enquiries - not just from the gutter press either, BBC were as bad.