House landlord is selling magically appears for rent at a higher price

KrakityJones

We were renting a house for years and the Landlord came to us to say he's in trouble with the bank and has to sell the house, in short we had to go.

Lo and behold the house is up on Daft for rent at €350 more per month, we only moved out 3 weeks ago. We still haven't gotten our deposit back.

I'm doubly angered as I painted the place myself out of my own pocket just before Christmas (stupid I know but we had just signed a new 1 year lease so thought I was safe enough).

Feel it was a pretty lousy thing to do and makes me feel even worse about the fact I can't afford to buy a house, and won't for a very very long time - years of being a renter and having to deal with this crap.

Anyway - has anyone been in this position and what can be done? I was of the impression that in this case the house cannot be put back up for rent for a number of months. I know I can get on to PRTB to get help with the deposit but I believe they can take up to 6 months to come to a conclusion.

quadrifoglio verde

That constitutes an illegal eviction. Get ready for a bit of a fight but you should get a nice payout at the end for being evicted illegally.

Take screenshots off the advert and open a dispute with the prtb

stoplooklisten

Are you sure he hasn't sold it and the new owner/bank has it up for rent? Because if it's your old landlord,he can't be doing that.

KrakityJones

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

That constitutes an illegal eviction. Get ready for a bit of a fight but you should get a nice payout at the end for being evicted illegally.

Take screenshots off the advert and open a dispute with the prtb

Thanks, have screenshot taken now, good call. PRTB is the place to start then you think?

KrakityJones

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Are you sure he hasn't sold it and the new owner/bank has it up for rent? Because if it's your old landlord,he can't be doing that.

No it's his name and number as the contact.

Graham

KrakityJones wrote: »

Thanks, have screenshot taken now, good call. PRTB is the place to start then you think?

Yes, start with the PRTB

jacko

Get onto the prtb asap. Landlord cannot hold onto deposit for that amount of time.

RentDayBlues

KrakityJones wrote: »

I'm doubly angered as I painted the place myself out of my own pocket just before Christmas (stupid I know but we had just signed a new 1 year lease so thought I was safe enough).

Aside from illegally asking you to leave to "sell", if you had just signed a new lease then he couldn't break this. Get onto prtb immediately

The communications you had with your landlord, do you have records? Texts, emails?

5inead

Landlords cannot do that. To evict you, they need to show that you have broken terms of lease, that the property isn't fit for your situation anymore, that they want to sell or that they want to use the property for themselves/family. If they wish to relist the property, they have to give you first refusal.

Take notes and screenshots of everything and definitely take action against the landlord. Good luck, horrible to hear of such underhanded tactics.

Graham

jacko wrote: »

Get onto the prtb asap. Landlord cannot hold onto deposit for that amount of time.

Regardless of the deposit, it sounds like they were evicted under false pretenses. If I remember correctly, the landlord could be forced to reinstate the lease under the previous conditions.

GarIT

Graham wrote: »

Regardless of the deposit, it sounds like they were evicted under false pretenses. If I remember correctly, the landlord could be forced to reinstate the lease under the previous conditions.

Any pay quite a lot in damages

KrakityJones

Graham wrote: »

Regardless of the deposit, it sounds like they were evicted under false pretenses. If I remember correctly, the landlord could be forced to reinstate the lease under the previous conditions.

I wouldn't fancy going back there after that, would be a tad awkward being his tenant id imagine.

I have emails/letters etc stating why we were being asked to move out. Now we did agree to move, but that was when we believed the place was being sold.

jimmycrackcorm

KrakityJones wrote:

We were renting a house for years and the Landlord came to us to say he's in trouble with the bank and has to sell the house, in short we had to go.

Have you any written proof that this is the case? Otherwise it is your word against his that you simply didn't move out of your own accord.

KrakityJones

Should also have said that it was definitely up for sale, there were some viewings toward the end and a for sale sign went up, so maybe that changes things. I'll talk to prtb tomorrow in any case, whatever about it being underhanded I just want the deposit back

KrakityJones

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Have you any written proof that this is the case? Otherwise it is your word against his that you simply didn't move out of your own accord.

Yes we have written proof that the reason we were asked to move was it was being sold.

quadrifoglio verde

KrakityJones wrote: »

I wouldn't fancy going back there after that, would be a tad awkward being his tenant id imagine.

I have emails/letters etc stating why we were being asked to move out. Now we did agree to move, but that was when we believed the place was being sold.

I take it you have a new place sorted anyway?
Notice to terminate due to selling the property is valid provided the landlord makes significant efforts to sell.
I think we can all agree that three weeks isn't a sufficient effort.
If he's unable to sell, you're meant to me offered the place back at the same rent.
This is clearly not the case. He has evicted you to increase the rent.

Take a case with the prtb, they will rule in your favour and order him to pay Compensation. If he refuses to pay, you then need to take it to the district court who will make the order. Then it's time for the sheriff.
Lots of work, yes, but you will get something decent. Let it go and you get nothing. As well as that this rogue landlord will get away with it and give good landlords a bad name

Keane2baMused

The landlord legally should have offered you first refusal on putting the house back up for let.

He didn't do that so you absolutely have a case.

KrakityJones

Keane2baMused wrote: »

The landlord legally should have offered you first refusal on putting the house back up for let.

He didn't do that so you absolutely have a case.

Thanks all, will definitely take this further with prtb, not fair on renters that this kind of thing can go on.

testaccount123

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Notice to terminate due to selling the property is valid provided the landlord makes significant efforts to sell.

Selling the property is not a valid reason to evict when there is a fixed term lease in place.

OP, why didnt you simply point that out to the landlord in the first place?

darlett

testaccount123 wrote: »

Selling the property is not a valid reason to evict when there is a fixed term lease in place.

OP, why didnt you simply point that out to the landlord in the first place?

Incorrect.
From http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/reasons-for-serving-a-notice-of-termination

Please read reason 2.
"REASONS FOR SERVING A NOTICE OF TERMINATION
A Tenant is not required to give a reason as part of the Notice of Termination unless the Notice of Termination is served due to the breach of obligations of the landlord.
Where a Part 4 tenancy is in place, regardless of the expiry of a fixed term lease, the tenancy may only be terminated by the landlord pursuant to Section 34 of the Residential Tenancies Act (as amended) for the below listed reasons:
1. The tenant has failed to comply with the obligations of the tenancy (having first been notified, in writing, of the failure, and given an opportunity to remedy it).
2. The landlord intends to sell the dwelling within the next 3 months.
3. The dwelling is no longer suited to the needs of the occupying household.
4. The landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation.
5. Vacant possession is required for substantial refurbishment of the dwelling.
6. The landlord intends to change the use of the dwelling."

vandriver

darlett wrote: »

Incorrect.
From http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/reasons-for-serving-a-notice-of-termination

Please read reason 2.
"REASONS FOR SERVING A NOTICE OF TERMINATION
A Tenant is not required to give a reason as part of the Notice of Termination unless the Notice of Termination is served due to the breach of obligations of the landlord.
Where a Part 4 tenancy is in place, regardless of the expiry of a fixed term lease, the tenancy may only be terminated by the landlord pursuant to Section 34 of the Residential Tenancies Act (as amended) for the below listed reasons:
1. The tenant has failed to comply with the obligations of the tenancy (having first been notified, in writing, of the failure, and given an opportunity to remedy it).
2. The landlord intends to sell the dwelling within the next 3 months.
3. The dwelling is no longer suited to the needs of the occupying household.
4. The landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation.
5. Vacant possession is required for substantial refurbishment of the dwelling.
6. The landlord intends to change the use of the dwelling."

This applies to a part 4,not a fixed term tenancy.Read what you have posted.

Keane2baMused

vandriver wrote: »

This applies to a part 4,not a fixed term tenancy.Read what you have posted.

Wrong. It is a part 4.

darlett

Have to say it can be confusing! The start point is working out if you are part 4 or not.


If its not then we look at http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy which is different but I think it is, looking at the above posters pic.

utmbuilder

i'd ring the revenue and ask them who to write to about how much rent you paid as you think your landlord is a rouge,

this fella sounds like he is up to all sorts of tricks, his tax bill could be very sizable.

testaccount123

KrakityJones wrote: »

I'm doubly angered as I painted the place myself out of my own pocket just before Christmas (stupid I know but we had just signed a new 1 year lease so thought I was safe enough).

OP had a fixed term lease.

Why does nobody understand tenancy law in this country? It is not particularly complicated.

darlett

Allow me with hands up in the air to make a follow post to my opener which was wrong as I think I found the accurate statement here http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Basically after 6 months of the fixed term tenant gains Part 4 benefits in terms of rights, but they do not suffer the pitfalls from Part 4. So no, a landlord can not use the need for a sale as a legit reason

"A landlord of a fixed term tenancy cannot rely on the provisions of Section 34 (e.g. the landlord wants to sell his house) to terminate the fixed term tenancy (unless Section 34 forms part of the Lease Agreement) and similarly a tenant of a fixed term tenancy cannot simply terminate that fixed term tenancy, by giving the requisite notice."

Time to duck out on something I didnt fully grasp initially! Good luck OP!

quadrifoglio verde

testaccount123 wrote: »

Selling the property is not a valid reason to evict when there is a fixed term lease in place.

OP, why didnt you simply point that out to the landlord in the first place?

I missed that part. Thanks for pointing it out. In this case the landlord hasn't any defence. He's screwed

Clampdown

There was also new legislation brought in which can fine the landlord a few grand for doing this. It was in the Irish Times you can probably google it.

The PRTB got me a hearing and found judgement within 2 months of opening a dispute for illegal eviction. It's enforcement of the judgment which takes longer if they appeal or wont comply. Still worth it tho, 15 quid and you can do it online.

Sunny Dayz

I don't think the landlord can break a fixed term lease when he wants to/has to sell the house. The house we rented was taken over by a receiver and one of the first things the receiver did was acknowledge that we were on a fixed term lease and there would be not word of moving until the lease was due to expire.

He could have a break clause in the lease in the event of wanting to sell the house.

Graham

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I don't think the landlord can break a fixed term lease when he wants to/has to sell the house. The house we rented was taken over by a receiver and one of the first things the receiver did was acknowledge that we were on a fixed term lease and there would be not word of moving until the lease was due to expire.

That depends on the specific terms of the lease. It is not unusual for a lease to make specific provisions for the sale of the property, any such provisions could not remove the protections (e.g. notice periods) a tenant has under part 4 if they also apply.