Getting thrown out of places for vaping.

yoke

was.deevey wrote: »

Which is a tiny amount, as Nicotine is absorbed FAST upon inhalation with very little left in the exhaled breath.

The amount of nicotine bsorbed by a passer by is even less than a tiny amount

This is the whole crux of the argument - we're not talking about passer bys, we're talking about people who will be stuck in a house or office with someone vaping the whole day (eg. coworkers, family, kids).
Thinking that your lungs absorb the majority of the nicotine which you inhale in a normal breath is a complete fallacy - i don't know where you got that info from, but I'd be looking at possible vested interests in any source which would say something like that. Sure if your lungs were that efficient we'd never have heroin addicts who inject themselves, as smoking heroin would have similar efficiency.
Due to what seems to be aggressive campaigning by e-cig companies, reminiscent of what was done by the tobacco companies before them with cigarettes, it seems that most people are completely ignorant of the dangers of nicotine itself - everyone seems to think nicotine is this completely harmless drug that doesn't affect your health in any way, and it was only the other chemicals in tobacco smoke that do harm.

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091743514003739

Above is a proper medical article published in 2014 which says nicotine does harm, if you're interested in reading it.

You got there on your own mate

Nicotine was never the problem, the CO2, CO and other 4000 chemicals being released by BURNING are the real issues with smoking

I didn't get there on my own - there are loads of more recent studies too which have found the same things in that study I posted - nicotine is well known for causing brain cell death, hence my comment. A newer study also found correlations between nicotine use and ability to form new neural pathways, which you need to do to learn new things.

some non-smokers/vapers are stupid and only read the headlines of the Sun or Daily Mail and happily join the argument uninformed and quote studies that were done 20 years ago and dismiss any studies that don't back up their argument.

Could you point out anywhere where I've done that?
Newscientist is hardly the daily mail.

jonski

yoke wrote: »

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091743514003739

Above is a proper medical article published in 2014 which says nicotine does harm, if you're interested in reading it.



I didn't get there on my own - there are loads of more recent studies too which have found the same things in that study I posted - nicotine is well known for causing brain cell death, hence my comment. A newer study also found correlations between nicotine use and ability to form new neural pathways, which you need to do to learn new things.

Reading that report ( and trying desperately not to fall asleep ) , is this the only part on Nicotine ? , it's the only part I could find , I'll try and read it properly later on .

Nicotine is referred to by some health professionals as harmless, whereas others do not share this view (National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, 2014). A meta-analysis found no increased risk of serious adverse events (Moore et al., 2009). To our knowledge, only one study has investigated the health effects of long-term pure nicotine/NRT use, finding no increase in the risk of cancer (Murray et al., 2009). However, nicotine has a significant biologic activity: in the central nervous system nicotine stimulates the release of important neurotransmitters and hormones (Balfour, 1982), and in the peripheral system it stimulates the release of catecholamines, with effects such as vasoconstriction, increase in heart rate and myocardial contractility (Kilaru et al., 2001). Animal studies suggest that nicotine accelerates atherosclerosis (Kilaru et al., 2001), reduces sperm quality (Condorelli et al., 2013), promotes growth of cancer cells and the proliferation of endothelial cells, reduces the responsiveness of several cancers to chemotherapy (Al-Wadei et al., 2009, Banerjee et al., 2013, Catassi et al., 2008, Dinicola et al., 2013 and Petros et al., 2012), and fetal and neonatal nicotine exposure leads to widespread adverse postnatal physical and mental health consequences (Bruin et al., 2010, Dwyer et al., 2009 and Gao et al., 2008). The applicability to human beings may be questioned. Poison centers are receiving many calls regarding e-fluid (Kilaru et al., 2001); mostly exposures have resulted in minimal toxicity (Vakkalanka et al., 2014), but a case of fatal nicotine poisoning in a child has been reported (Kloosterman, 2013).

8mm

Newscientist is a junky source and while not quite Daily Mail it's articles are poor misinformed op pieces.

The NS reported study on neural problems comes from a study on rats and NS should have pointed out that rodent studies are near junk when it comes to human modelling. They then head into the suspicious territory of scare mongering for nicotine replacement products by associating these with this study.

lee_baby_simms

I vape myself but I'm sick of people who think they're entitled to blow clouds in enclosed public spaces because its not illegal.

Not only is it inconsiderate, you're just pissing in your own paddling pool. It's your actions that gives the public an axe to grind and only emboldens detractors.

Just vape outside with smokers.

eeguy

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I vape myself but I'm sick of people who think they're entitled to blow clouds in enclosed public spaces because its not illegal.

Not only is it inconsiderate, you're just pissing in your own paddling pool. It's your actions that gives the public an axe to grind and only emboldens detractors.

Just vape outside with smokers.

Pretty much this.

No one cares if vaping is harmless and odourless and people will just ignore and stats and science you throw at them.

It's seen as similar to smoking and people like the OP aren't helping the public perception.

Thecageyone

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/?#tabs-trending

^^ thread is trending. Not that you own this forum or anything, people can post whereever they want.

Lord knows why it is, when it wasn't in here to begin with until all of you started suddenly posting in it ... weird.

Also, that's a pretty childish response "I can post what I like" - how about posting something sensible/constructive at the very least? If you're following this thread so closely then you've got your answers to why vaping is NOT bad. Re-read, swallow, digest, and stop trolling. because that's all I see

Trending .... jaysis .... if there was a thread suddenly "trending" on PMS would you jump in so quick?

Time to ignore the trolls me thinks, [you only have to check some poster's previous posts ... none of them seem to have ever posted in this area, or anything vape related, just general jumping on anything slightly controversial] and get back to actual vape discussions on here. You can get this nonsense any time on the likes of youtube

On the not smelling bad side of it ... yeah, concentrate on that aspect ... when some of us have already said we go to the smoking area, where it reeks of cancer, but never mind, moan away ... vaper and non vapers, some people are just .... moaners full stop.

mewso

I don't see trolling here but I do see uncivil behaviour. Thecageyone if you can't be civil please just don't bother posting. If you want to change peoples' minds about something a good way is to welcome them and offer to answer any questions they might have rather than accusing them of having alterior motives for posting in a thread in a forum where they are perfectly entitled to do so.

Thecageyone

mewso wrote: »

I don't see trolling here but I do see uncivil behaviour. Thecageyone if you can't be civil please just don't bother posting. If you want to change peoples' minds about something a good way is to welcome them and offer to answer any questions they might have rather than accusing them of having alterior motives for posting in a thread in a forum where they are perfectly entitled to do so.

Trolling is trying to get a rise out of people in a very specific area. You only have to check their previous posts. When it's people who have never visited that area or entered any discussion on the subject in the past. But ... let them at it, precisely what they want. this place is pretty dead lately anyway.

There is nothing uncivil about any of my posts. Just truth. You being a mod doesn't change that, you're just giving them what they came for now. good luck.

mewso

Thecageyone wrote: »

There is nothing uncivil about any of my posts. Just truth. You being a mod doesn't change that, you're just giving them what they came for now. good luck.

You are the one giving them what they want if you really think they are all trolls. If all they want is a rise then you are the only one I can see here who has risen. Now since you decided to argue with me I'm probably supposed to ban you or whatever but I'm tired so lets just leave it at that please.

dee_mc

I vape but I wouldn't do so in a pub, cafe or restaurant. Certainly not in the cinema.
I walked by a guy on the street the other day just as he was exhaling and I could actually taste that it was a cola flavour e-cig liquid - ok it probably wasn't harmful 'second hand' but it was unpleasant and a bit weird and with that in mind I'd be conscious of not inflicting my vape on anyone else.
It's very simple to just pop out to a smoking area or a bathroom or whatever if you really need a hit!

nuttyboy79

Discretion is key in all of this. Big clouds in a cinema/restaurant nope little clouds/double inhales yup if I'm asked to stop no problem away I go outside (not to the smoking area though it smells there).

As for harm from nicotine in 2nd hand vape there's nicotine in tomatoes it occurs in some vegetables.



http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619

JackieChang

Parachutes wrote: »

I was thrown out of the pictures mid film the weekend without a refund.

I am delighted you were thrown out. I would have thrown you out too if I was working there. If I was a customer, I would have reported you. And I'm a vaper! How could you possibly think vaping in the cinema is OK?

Also, people who say there is no smell from vaping are liars. Vaping often stinks. I couldn't even stealth vape one tobacco flavour I had in work as people complained that the office smelled like mouldy socks. And whenever I go into a vape shop, there's a disgusting sickly sweet vape smell that I can't stand. I definitely wouldn't want any of that in a restaurant or cinema. And even if it doesn't smell, a cloud floating around the place is distracting and annoying.

I have now switched to unflavoured vape juice, and if I ever vape inside it is very very discreet.

Anyway, I found my new favourite vape slang on Reddit recently - "Vapehole".

Zelda247

JackieChang wrote: »

I am delighted you were thrown out. I would have thrown you out too if I was working there. If I was a customer, I would have reported you. And I'm a vaper! How could you possibly think vaping in the cinema is OK?

Also, people who say there is no smell from vaping are liars. Vaping often stinks. I couldn't even stealth vape one tobacco flavour I had in work as people complained that the office smelled like mouldy socks. And whenever I go into a vape shop, there's a disgusting sickly sweet vape smell that I can't stand. I definitely wouldn't want any of that in a restaurant or cinema. And even if it doesn't smell, a cloud floating around the place is distracting and annoying.

I have now switched to unflavoured vape juice, and if I ever vape inside it is very very discreet.

Anyway, I found my new favourite vape slang on Reddit recently - "Vapehole".

I disagree. My husband uses Liquia Tobacco flavour and there is absolutely no smell whatsoever.

j26m

Zelda247 wrote: »

I disagree. My husband uses Liquia Tobacco flavour and there is absolutely no smell whatsoever.

Some smell, some don't.
I have one that proper stinks, others that smell nice, and some where you wouldn't even know someone was vaping nearby.

esforum

8mm wrote: »

New study proves there is no second-hand vaping:

e-cigarette aerosol contains less volatile compounds than normal exhaled breath

http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/226-sp

Please stop with the "who knows what's in those yokes" type assumptions - we know what's in them and we know this saves lives.

about as neutral and independent as Nick Nayler

I personally dont vape but I have to say it doesnt bother me if others do. I am a little strange though, as an ex smoker I still actually still like the smell of people smoking whereas the biggest cigarette nazis are usually former smokers.

I can understand people not liking it around food especially when eating and the cinema one would annoy me if it was leaving clouds but then compared to whatn some asshats do during a movie, its a minor issue

(apologies for not being a regular but then how does one become a regular without a first visit??)

JustShon

Why exactly is it such a hassle to pop outside to vape?

I don't vape in restaurants, cinemas, shopping centres or anywhere but my home or outside.

It just doesn't bother me to nip outside. What's the issue with it?

Zelda247

I don't vape at all but if someone is sitting beside you vaping and there is no smell whatsoever what is the harm in it, its no more than the steam coming from a pot or kettle, why would it bother anyone.

actuallylike

Zelda247 wrote: »

I don't vape at all but if someone is sitting beside you vaping and there is no smell whatsoever what is the harm in it, its no more than the steam coming from a pot or kettle, why would it bother anyone.

It's annoying, just like if someone (to use your example), brought a pot or a kettle into a pub or cinema and sat beside you and had steam (albeit harmless steam) blowing in your face, it would be rude.

I'd love if someone brought a kettle into a cinema actually!

Shinobollo

actuallylike wrote: »

It's annoying, just like if someone (to use your example), brought a pot or a kettle into a pub or cinema and sat beside you and had steam (albeit harmless steam) blowing in your face, it would be rude.

I'd love if someone brought a kettle into a cinema actually!

It's great to see new posters in this forum. Especially those who understand the difference between smoke and harmless steam from a kettle ! Welcome

Grayson

j26m wrote: »

Some smell, some don't.
I have one that proper stinks, others that smell nice, and some where you wouldn't even know someone was vaping nearby.

Every juice I have smells different. Most are fruity dessert ones so they smell quite nice but the tobacco ones smell of well, tobacco.

I've started sub ohm recently but I've learned not to do it outside as much. They fun part is the clouds it produces but it's not nice for someone to walk into. I was vaping outside a pub a few weeks ago and the clouds were slowing drifting up the pavement. It's actually better to vape when there's a bit of a breeze
Even walking along the road with a friend I have to make sure to walk on their down wind side so when I exhale a big cloud of vapor doesn't hit their face.

youdipstick

When I vape Liqua French Pipe (Nautilus) in the house or car,most of my friends say it smells like a decomposed body :D:D I thought,where the hell did they come across a decomposed body before:D:D I do sneakly bring FP & other flavours into the car & they know when I am vaping FP.There must be a rotten smell off it but I can't smell it,I just enjoy the taste.
Anyone else had this problem with FP.

Shinobollo

youdipstick wrote: »

When I vape Liqua French Pipe (Nautilus) in the house or car,most of my friends say it smells like a decomposed body :D:D I thought,where the hell did they come across a decomposed body before:D:D I do sneakly bring FP & other flavours into the car & they know when I am vaping FP.There must be a rotten smell off it but I can't smell it,I just enjoy the taste.
Anyone else had this problem with FP.

Never had that when I used FP in the past. However, I did have the same problem with almost the entire HALO range - particularly the tobacco flavours.
The boss would regularly ask if I was vaping the Cats Piss again no matter which one I was using. Being a dutiful husband, I'd sneak another one in every now and again but was sussed every time.

Then at a wedding one day when a friend asked me the exact same question, I decided there must be something to this. Yet I'd never noticed it.

Not long after I was standing beside someone vaping and picked up a similar pungent aroma - as someone with a serious dislike of cats and the smell of piss generally :-) - it was horrible.

Curious, I asked what they were using only to be told that it was Tribeca. Lesson learnt !

Must be something Halo use in their base.
But I suppose just like taste, smell can be subjective and I say that as someone who works in a multicultural office with a desk (too) near the microwave :-P

Captain Chaos

Zelda247 wrote: »

I don't vape at all but if someone is sitting beside you vaping and there is no smell whatsoever what is the harm in it, its no more than the steam coming from a pot or kettle, why would it bother anyone.

There is a smell from vaping, it's very, very strong. I hate having to breath in all their chemicals as I'm out walking. Most of them are like steam trains. It's just ridiculous at this stage. I agree that they should be treated exactly the same as smokers, no exceptions.

If you can't smell some vaping from 10 feet away there is something wrong with your nose.

Thecageyone

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is a smell from vaping, it's very, very strong. I hate having to breath in all their chemicals as I'm out walking. Most of them are like steam trains. It's just ridiculous at this stage. I agree that they should be treated exactly the same as smokers, no exceptions.

If you can't smell some vaping from 10 feet away there is something wrong with your nose.

What chemicals? If you're so against it you'll have done some research, so what chemicals do you imagine you're breathing in?

AngryDiMaria

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is a smell from vaping, it's very, very strong. I hate having to breath in all their chemicals as I'm out walking. Most of them are like steam trains. It's just ridiculous at this stage. I agree that they should be treated exactly the same as smokers, no exceptions.

If you can't smell some vaping from 10 feet away there is something wrong with your nose.

Idiotic post of the day

lee_baby_simms

Interesting study:

http://www.sciencecodex.com/new_study_finds_exhaled_ecigarette_vapour_particles_disappear_within_seconds-180599

bpmurray

The reason tobacco smoking was banned from the workplace was because of the impact that smoke was having on the health of the workers, including those in pubs, restaurants, etc. This new replacement for tobacco seems to actually have quite a few risks associated with it, so it's actually not unreasonable for people to demand that they not partake in the vaper's habit. In other words, if you smoke or vape, don't expect others to smoke or vape along with you.

Shinobollo

bpmurray wrote: »

The reason tobacco smoking was banned from the workplace was because of the impact that smoke was having on the health of the workers, including those in pubs, restaurants, etc. This new replacement for tobacco seems to actually have quite a few risks associated with it, so it's actually not unreasonable for people to demand that they not partake in the vaper's habit. In other words, if you smoke or vape, don't expect others to smoke or vape along with you.

I don't recall seeing you here before so welcome to the Vapers forum and many thanks for your invaluable contribution.
Funny, but I couldn't see any reference to second hand vapour in the article you linked to.
However, I did see mention of a food additive that could potentially harmful to the consumer.
Do you check every single ingredient in everything you eat and drink ?
Do you boycott restaurants that serve red meat or use sizzling plates to serve food ?
Do you avoid places where people use aerosol deodorants, after-shaves and perfumes ?
I could go on and on and on...
Unless the answer to all the above is no, it's time you invested in a plastic bubble.
I'm probably going to end up with a ban for this but I'm sick and tired of the holier than thou, I don't do it so you can't brigade dropping in here spewing pure bollox without taking the time to do some genuine research first.
It takes a lot to get me animated - just ask herself - and this is not specifically aimed at you personally but please don't just grab the first anti vaping sensationalist headline you can find and tell us all to piss off.
Research both sides before passing comment. By all means join in when you have statistical data that demonstrates the dangers of second hand vaping.
Until then...

AngryDiMaria

Shinobollo wrote: »

I don't recall seeing you here before so welcome to the Vapers forum and many thanks for your invaluable contribution.
Funny, but I couldn't see any reference to second hand vapour in the article you linked to.
However, I did see mention of a food additive that could potentially harmful to the consumer.
Do you check every single ingredient in everything you eat and drink ?
Do you boycott restaurants that serve red meat or use sizzling plates to serve food ?
Do you avoid places where people use aerosol deodorants, after-shaves and perfumes ?
I could go on and on and on...
Unless the answer to all the above is no, it's time you invested in a plastic bubble.
I'm probably going to end up with a ban for this but I'm sick and tired of the holier than thou, I don't do it so you can't brigade dropping in here spewing pure bollox without taking the time to do some genuine research first.
It takes a lot to get me animated - just ask herself - and this is not specifically aimed at you personally but please don't just grab the first anti vaping sensationalist headline you can find and tell us all to piss off.
Research both sides before passing comment. By all means join in when you have statistical data that demonstrates the dangers of second hand vaping.
Until then...

Amen to that. Better out than in.

JH_raheny

Never argue with an ignorant, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience