Summer Transfer Window - 2016

Skylinehead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A class defender who Man City were fairly happy to release. Listen to Boateng speak and you'll know how highly he values the work Pep did with him. He always had potential but until Pep it was just that; potential.

Pique played a very decent percentage of his games for Zaragoza in midfield. He rarely started for Man Utd. Another player with potential who, after working with Pep, became, in my view, the best centre back in world football.

How can I hold these views? Because I have, and do, follow Guardiola's career.

I agree with you on Pique, but the Boateng one is blatantly untrue. It wasn't just 'potential' - he spent the season before Guardiola arrived winning a treble as one of the most important players in the team. He was world class then, world class when Guardiola arrived, and world class now.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

And yet he was not the all round magnificent centre back that he is today. What you see today is a player that has been carefully moulded through countless hours of work, instruction and practice.

That's just nonsense and I will just leave it here. You smell scent even if Pep farts so there is no point in arguing more than 2 posts. It will just go in circles.

Andersonisgod

Skylinehead wrote: »

I agree with you on Pique, but the Boateng one is blatantly untrue. It wasn't just 'potential' - he spent the season before Guardiola arrived winning a treble as one of the most important players in the team. He was world class then, world class when Guardiola arrived, and world class now.

Boateng himself has acknowledged how much better he is as a player due to Pep. Anyone who has watched him before Pep and then during and after Pep can see the glaringly obvious differences in the player. Anyone who has read "Herr Pep" knows that Guardiola made Boateng a personal project of his.....but sure....whatever.....I'll leave my points there at the door.

Buford T. Justice XIX

*unfollow*

Skylinehead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Boateng himself has acknowledged how much better he is as a player due to Pep. Anyone who has watched him before Pep and then during and after Pep can see the glaringly obvious differences in the player. Anyone who has read "Herr Pep" knows that Guardiola made Boateng a personal project of his.....but sure....whatever.....I'll leave my points there at the door.

This is your quote:

Lol at the idea that Pep didn't play a crucial role in pushing Pique and Boateng on to be two of the best centre backs in the world.

Boateng already was. Next.

Andersonisgod

Skylinehead wrote: »

This is your quote:



Boateng already was. Next.

One top season, in a team set up to defend and he's one of the best? I'm out, pointless debate.

Skylinehead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

One top season, in a team set up to defend and he's one of the best? I'm out, pointless debate.

He was widely regarded as one of the best centre halves of the season, yes. He then continued to be one of the best.

"Set up to defend"? Did you watch Bayern at all that season, or are you just parrotting that they sat back and soaked up pressure, like a Mourinho side against big teams? They were nothing like that. They controlled the ball for most of their games, even when they destroyed one of the greatest possession teams ever to exist 7-0 they saw plenty of it. They attacked opponents hard and fast, but don't equate that to parking the bus.

For all your adulations for Guardiola, you seem to have a very limited understanding of his predecessor.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

One top season, in a team set up to defend and he's one of the best? I'm out, pointless debate.

CantGetNoSleep

Is Boateng moving somewhere? Last 3 pages only about him?

Giggsy11

Bayern team that reached CL finals and won the treble later were set up to defend? *facepalm*

MD1990

Andersonisgod wrote: »

One top season, in a team set up to defend and he's one of the best? I'm out, pointless debate.

Bayern scored 98 goals in the league in 12/13. Pep's Bayern was never as good as Heynckes Bayern that is a fact. A problem with Bayern under Pep is changed systems too often too. Also under Pep Bayern had huge injury problems never before seen at the club.

rob316

JH Bayern set up to defend, that is just laughable. His Bayern team would have torn Pep's to shreds. The football they played was sensational when they won the CL something Pep never matched.

rob316

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Is Boateng moving somewhere? Last 3 pages only about him?

No, just once again AIG is so blinded by Pep Gaurdiola he has to be called out on his verbal diarrhoea.

Andersonisgod

rob316 wrote: »

No, just once again AIG is so blinded by Pep Gaurdiola he has to be called out on his verbal diarrhoea.

Here I was thinking I'd just highlighted a glaring lack of mass knowledge. Strange.

Mickeroo

Please return to the topic of transfers folks, thanks.

Kobe248

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A class defender who Man City were fairly happy to release. Listen to Boateng speak and you'll know how highly he values the work Pep did with him. He always had potential but until Pep it was just that; potential.

Pique played a very decent percentage of his games for Zaragoza in midfield. He rarely started for Man Utd. Another player with potential who, after working with Pep, became, in my view, the best centre back in world football.

How can I hold these views? Because I have, and do, follow Guardiola's career.

Did you actually watch him in Spain pre Barca because I did

A manager speaking well about his current boss

Have a look whats being said about Conte at Chelsea right now, take it with a pinch of salt

Zlatan loves Jose, in no way did Jose make Zlatan

And Pique is in no way the best cb in the world, hes not even the best spanish cb

Boateng was well into his potential aswell

Rating a player on the circus that is Man City is the same as rating Pogba on the sideshow that is the french national team

Both which you seem to do, anyways Im going to leave it here, Ive been told stories about being nice

Edit:sorry had posted already

Jayop

Craig Norwood has basically confirmed the Pog transfer. Here's the last 4 people he's followed.



(United's photographer for those who don't follow the club closely)

Giggsy11

Jayop wrote: »

Craig Norwood has basically confirmed the Pog transfer. Here's the last 4 people he's followed.



(United's photographer for those who don't follow the club closely)

Norwood is not ManUtd official photographer.

https://twitter.com/CraigNorwood/status/758977719585562624

dr.kenneth noisewater

Gomis gone to Marseilles on season long loan deal

dr.kenneth noisewater

[font=Helvetica, Arial, freesans, sans-serif]Adriano has joined Besiktas from Barca for 600,000[/font]

Jayop

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Norwood is not ManUtd official photographer.

https://twitter.com/CraigNorwood/status/758977719585562624

Cheers, he's pretty close to it though and is spot on with his transfer gossip more often than not.

MisterAnarchy

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

[font=Helvetica, Arial, freesans, sans-serif]Adriano has joined Besiktas from Barca for 600,000[/font]

600k for a 31 year old of such quality is peanuts.
Barcelona need to stop giving players away so cheaply.

Fellaini to Sunderland?

Mourinhio weeding out the spoofers.

inforfun

Vietto from Atletico to Sevilla.

Would be fantastic if Sampaoli can make Sevilla click like he made U de Chile and Chile click and keep Madrid (2x) and Barcelona behind them this season or next
Will need to win a few more matches away from home than last year for that.....

The Talking Bread

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Fellaini to Sunderland?

Mourinhio weeding out the spoofers.

Wouldn't call him a spoofed. Just never settled in and the football didn't suit him. Was a bad move. But he has many good attributes as a player

Giggsy11

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Fellaini to Sunderland?

Mourinhio weeding out the spoofers.

:rolleyes:

GavRedKing

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Fellaini to Sunderland?

Mourinhio weeding out the spoofers.

He'd surely get a game for better placed sides than Sunderland still in the EPL and abroad I would be willing to bet.

Wages could be an issue though and more likely to be paid in the English game with all the money flying around.

Kirby

Not being a good centre midfielder doesn't make you a spoofer to be fair. He's a forward. Thats where he can utilize his skillset. That fact that a certain dutch manager periodically played him in the centre isn't really his fault. What are you going to do? Say "No boss, I'm not playing there!" Moyes got the best out of him. He knew where to play him.

Corholio

20 years this week Shearer moved for a world record fee of £15m.

£15m now gets you Jordan Ibe. How times have changed.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Wouldn't call him a spoofed. Just never settled in and the football didn't suit him. Was a bad move. But he has many good attributes elbows as a player

FYP.

Corholio

Corholio wrote: »

20 years this week Shearer moved for a world record fee of £15m.

£15m now gets you Jordan Ibe. How times have changed.

Shearer would be worth some money now. What a player he was

ASOT

Corholio wrote: »

20 years this week Shearer moved for a world record fee of £15m.

£15m now gets you Jordan Ibe. How times have changed.

1e got you a hundred jellies 20 years ago, now it doesn't even get you one Fredo. How times have changed.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

He'd surely get a game for better placed sides than Sunderland still in the EPL and abroad I would be willing to bet.

Wages could be an issue though and more likely to be paid in the English game with all the money flying around.

He's pretty limited for a team that wants to challenge for top 4 and beyond tbh and was astounded Utd kept him for so long.

Headshot

inforfun wrote: »

Vietto from Atletico to Sevilla.

Would be fantastic if Sampaoli can make Sevilla click like he made U de Chile and Chile click and keep Madrid (2x) and Barcelona behind them this season or next
Will need to win a few more matches away from home than last year for that.....

oh man I never knew Sampaoli went to Seville. Im very very excited now. I remember watching his De Chile team destroy teams in Copa Sudamericana.

What a team he had.

Jayop

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Shearer would be worth some money now. What a player he was

Shearer today at the level he was when moving from Blackburn to Newcastle (Ugh still get sick thinking about that one) would probably break all transfer records. Easily a 100m+ player in today's markets.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Shearer today at the level he was when moving from Blackburn to Newcastle (Ugh still get sick thinking about that one) would probably break all transfer records. Easily a 100m+ player in today's markets.

He was fantastic with Newcastle but argubly better for Blackburn

inforfun

Headshot wrote: »

oh man I never knew Sampaoli went to Seville. Im very very excited now. I remember watching his De Chile team destroy teams in Copa Sudamericana.

What a team he had.

Those were the days. That La U team is one of my all time favourite teams Many nights of short sleep in 2010/11.
Came up just short for winning the Copa libertadores a year after the Copa SA and they kept selling forwards and appointing Bielsa clones and are now a bit ****.

gosplan

Anyone in the know about Spanish football here know what Jesé is like?

1 goal every 180 mins for Madrid in the league last year.

Jayop

RoboKlopp wrote: »

He was fantastic with Newcastle but argubly better for Blackburn

I don't disagree, that's why I feel that would have been the point his fee would have been at it's highest.

One funny thing to me is that Shearer has been held in such high esteem as the greatest goal scorer in modern times to have been from England and to have played in the premier league. When Shearer was Rooney's age he had scored 259 goals in all comps to Rooney's 262 and 199 League goals (including old first division) to Rooney's 178.

What fee would an 18 year old Rooney command in today's market?

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

I don't disagree, that's why I feel that would have been the point his fee would have been at it's highest.

One funny thing to me is that Shearer has been held in such high esteem as the greatest goal scorer in modern times to have been from England and to have played in the premier league. When Shearer was Rooney's age he had scored 259 goals in all comps to Rooney's 262 and 199 League goals (including old first division) to Rooney's 178.

What fee would an 18 year old Rooney command in today's market?

Dunno but it'd be collosal

eagle eye

Shearer did it in a lot less games than Rooney.

raze_them_all_

SHearer also did it against lessar talent and fit players, Superb player for his time, would still be able for it today, just not at the same prolific level

GavRedKing

Jayop wrote: »

I don't disagree, that's why I feel that would have been the point his fee would have been at it's highest.

One funny thing to me is that Shearer has been held in such high esteem as the greatest goal scorer in modern times to have been from England and to have played in the premier league. When Shearer was Rooney's age he had scored 259 goals in all comps to Rooney's 262 and 199 League goals (including old first division) to Rooney's 178.

What fee would an 18 year old Rooney command in today's market?

Shearer had a few 20-25 league goal seasons and a few 30+ goal seasons, shearer through injuries had a good couple of lowq goal scoring seasons too.

I think Rooneys only ever broke 20 twice, hes nearly always managed to get between 10-15 though throughout his career.

But on your question of what an 18 year old Rooney would cost, its probably in the 60-80m price bracket, especially if he went from Everton - Utd again in the current money climate.

I still think Henry is the best CF the EPL has seen, his goal/games ratio blows both out of the water and its pretty insane.

Dirty Dingus McGee

GavRedKing wrote: »

Shearer had a few 20-25 league goal seasons and a few 30+ goal seasons, shearer through injuries had a good couple of lowq goal scoring seasons too.

I think Rooneys only ever broke 20 twice, hes nearly always managed to get between 10-15 though throughout his career.

But on your question of what an 18 year old Rooney would cost, its probably in the 60-80m price bracket, especially if he went from Everton - Utd again in the current money climate.

I still think Henry is the best CF the EPL has seen, his goal/games ratio blows both out of the water and its pretty insane.

Henry had none of his non peak years at arsenal which stacks things in his favour.So his goals per game record would be inflated compared to most top class strikers from in history of the premier league.Still the best striker in the leagus history though.

Corholio

I'd have Shearer as main striker all day long. I think in the modern era of deeper tactics and a lot of forwards not being 'strikers' how rare it was and still is to find a goalscorer like him. The type of player he was he would have been prolific in any era, and only for his injuries there would be no need for any comparison between him and Rooney's scoring records because they wouldn't be close.

Don't wanna derail transfer thread with Shearer talk though :P

Gueye to move almost certainly to Everton but Di Matteo confirmed other clubs could come in late for him.

MisterAnarchy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

SHearer also did it against lessar talent and fit players, Superb player for his time, would still be able for it today, just not at the same prolific level

Shearer played in much inferior sides to Rooney though .
If Shearer hadnt been so stubborn and joined Utd instead of Newcastle he'd have broken all sorts of records.

He was a clinical finisher with both feet and head,physically and mentally strong ,good temperament,a leader .
No comparison between him and Rooney ,Shearer was a much superior player.

Jayop

GavRedKing wrote: »

Shearer had a few 20-25 league goal seasons and a few 30+ goal seasons, shearer through injuries had a good couple of lowq goal scoring seasons too.

I think Rooneys only ever broke 20 twice, hes nearly always managed to get between 10-15 though throughout his career.

But on your question of what an 18 year old Rooney would cost, its probably in the 60-80m price bracket, especially if he went from Everton - Utd again in the current money climate.

I still think Henry is the best CF the EPL has seen, his goal/games ratio blows both out of the water and its pretty insane.

For the time he played in the league Henry was unreal, but as was mentioned he spend almost his entire peak in the league.

eagle eye wrote: »

Shearer did it in a lot less games than Rooney.

Rooney now
520 games
245 goals

Shearer > 2000/01
505 games
266 goals

Not a huge difference.

Corholio wrote: »

I'd have Shearer as main striker all day long. I think in the modern era of deeper tactics and a lot of forwards not being 'strikers' how rare it was and still is to find a goalscorer like him. The type of player he was he would have been prolific in any era, and only for his injuries there would be no need for any comparison between him and Rooney's scoring records because they wouldn't be close.

Goals per games take injuries out of the equation and as I showed above there's not much there of a difference especially given how often Roo played out of position.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Shearer played in much inferior sides to Rooney though .
If Shearer hadnt been so stubborn and joined Utd instead of Newcastle he'd have broken all sorts of records.

He was a clinical finisher with both feet and head,physically and mentally strong ,good temperament,a leader .
No comparison between him and Rooney ,Shearer was a much superior player.

One thing to remember is that I doubt Shearer played any more than a handful of games in his career anywhere other than as the main striker and the entire set up in every side he played in was to make the most out of him and to create chances for him. Rooney has played huge chunks of his career at midfield or as a wide forward and his goal scoring ratio is still pretty comparable by any method you wish to compare them. Goals by age 30, goals per game etc.

Anyway, I'm getting way off topic here and it wasn't my intention. I suppose the core point was that I'd probably see those two with maybe a young Gerrard as the English players who could command a 100m fee in today's market in the PL era.

Corholio

Jayop wrote: »

Goals per games take injuries out of the equation and as I showed above there's not much there of a difference especially given how often Roo played out of position.

They don't if he would have scored more goals. If he scored 70 or 80 more goals than Rooney, regardless of games, there would be no even starting the comparison. That's not to mention the effect of having the serious injuries he had.

Jayop

Corholio wrote: »

They don't if he would have scored more goals. If he scored 70 or 80 more goals than Rooney, regardless of games, there would be no even starting the comparison. That's not to mention the effect of having the serious injuries he had.

I don't understand your point. The goals per game ratio removes injuries from the equation because it only points to the games they actually played in and removes the periods they were injured.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

I don't understand your point. The goals per game ratio removes injuries from the equation because it only points to the games they actually played in and removes the periods they were injured.

Shearer had a few bad seasons where he as coming back from injuries and wasn't at his best and so that would impact on his stats for those years.

His scoring record for Blackburn is simply insane.