Protest outisde IFI in city west today.

pheasant tail

Neville Fickling has a good article in the most recent pike and predators edition about the protest at Cirywest. He said a re analysis of IFI's scientific evidence against the pike was carried out and released in PDF form at the same time, anyone know where this is?

pheasant tail

twin_beacon wrote: »

John, are IFI in breach of any European regulation, for culling a native species? (if it has been proven that pike are native to all the lakes the nets are being set)

It's good to be looking at this but I certainly can't see anything coming out if it. Europe has as far as I know, made it compulsory for IFI to manage trout and salmon populations in these wild lakes, by any means possible. Even if for example, protected species such certain birds, comorants, or even for example seals can be culled if they are proven to impact trout snd salmon stocks on these lakes. The issues lies there though in the actual scientific clarification, beyond any reasonable doubt, that pike or any other species actually impacts the stocks intended for protection and that their removal will have no spin-off negative affects for the fishery

kildare lad

Pike are proven to be native by a report done by the IFI a year or two ago. They shouldnt be allowed to keep gillnetting just to appease the trout men. Its a waste of resources that are badly needed needed elsewhere. Apparently the IFI are to cease stocking trout now as well. thats the dodder and tolka screwed. Any wild trout that are left in that will be gone in a season or two.

They really are a useless organisation, granted it has good people on the ground, but the decision makers are dinosaurs. They cant see outside there little bubble live in. On their facebook page they try and promote pike fishing, showing pics of nice pike caught recently but yet they slaughter thousands every year. They dont know their arse from there elbow.

twin_beacon

kildare lad wrote: »

Apparently the IFI are to cease stocking trout now as well. thats the dodder and tolka screwed. Any wild trout that are left in that will be gone in a season or two.

I heard that alright, this is going to be a massive blow to angling in Ireland, as there are some very large angling clubs on those rivers, with lots of young anglers. With the amount of abuse those rivers get by flowing through a large city (water quality and poaching), the future does not look good for their wild trout stocks.

jkchambers

There was a meeting of the main angling federations last night and the closure of hatcheries was high on the agenda. These closures could have a dire effect on the many clubs who rely on stock from Roscrea to keep their waters stocked and club memberships reasonable. The Dodder runs behind my house and it is great to see the scores of kids on the river from St Patricks Day onwards. While there are wild trout in the Dodder they rely on stockies to provide enough fish to keep the kids interested. The federations are working on a strategy to fight these closures.
You would never know, trout anglers may soon be joining us pike anglers protesting outside the IFI offices. All should remember that anglers are fighting against IFI policies that are decided on high and not against the rank and file staff of IFI who also seem to be rather annoyed with their management these days

thefisherbuy

twin_beacon wrote: »

I heard that alright, this is going to be a massive blow to angling in Ireland, as there are some very large angling clubs on those rivers, with lots of young anglers. With the amount of abuse those rivers get by flowing through a large city (water quality and poaching), the future does not look good for their wild trout stocks.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, I heard this alright what other rivers do they stock other than the dodder and tolka? The tolka last year got s very bad pollution, killed everything the bad thing is that it kills insects too which would stop the surviving trout feeding, ifi need to get there head straight, the environment agency has stocked 2 million in 2015 alone, that is aside salmoids and also fish stocked out of stillwaters fisheries..

jkchambers

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking the thread, I heard this alright what other rivers do they stock other than the dodder and tolka? The tolka last year got s very bad pollution, killed everything the bad thing is that it kills insects too which would stop the surviving trout feeding, ifi need to get there head straight, the environment agency has stocked 2 million in 2015 alone, that is aside salmoids and also fish stocked out of stillwaters fisheries..

Dozens of clubs all around the country get trout from IFI

twin_beacon

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking the thread, I heard this alright what other rivers do they stock other than the dodder and tolka? The tolka last year got s very bad pollution, killed everything the bad thing is that it kills insects too which would stop the surviving trout feeding, ifi need to get there head straight, the environment agency has stocked 2 million in 2015 alone, that is aside salmoids and also fish stocked out of stillwaters fisheries..

I remember that alright, the company that caused the pollution got a very small fine. Id say John would be more informed than me as to what other rivers are stocked. There are lots of stocked rainbow lakes too, some are man made, others are natural. The future doesn't look good for these lakes, which is a shame.

thefisherbuy

Yea that's right Twin, a very small fee, I just relised there's a few lake's near me that get stocked by ifi, What will happen now to them? already this has caused outrage, I suppose we will be seeing more protests!

pheasant tail

Just seen that the public service extended the deadline for applying to the IFI National Forum, must be low on numbers applying. Anyone who wants to get their say across and hopes to influence any new policies and developments should apply for this

jkchambers

pheasant tail wrote: »

Just seen that the public service extended the deadline for applying to the IFI National Forum, must be low on numbers applying. Anyone who wants to get their say across and hopes to influence any new policies and developments should apply for this

Earlier this morning I posted this on the IFPAC Facebook page
" At many meetings of the first forum members were asked to comment on certain issues. They were given no advance notice of the issues and members were divided up into different groups and each given a different issue to discuss. After an hour all got together to report on and discuss the issues. Then everyone went home and never heard back from IFI on whether they paid the slightest bit of attention to the forums views. At the first meeting of the new forum it will be essential that forum members make it perfectly clear to IFI that they do not want to be wasting their time at these forum meetings and that , in future, business at the forum meetings must be done in a proper structured way with detailed feedback on how their views have been taken into account by IFI. We believe that the actual online application form is some piece of work but if you are anyway interested do go ahead and apply. Closing date is 5th May."

Bogwoppit

jkchambers wrote: »

Earlier this morning I posted this on the IFPAC Facebook page
" At many meetings of the first forum members were asked to comment on certain issues. They were given no advance notice of the issues and members were divided up into different groups and each given a different issue to discuss. After an hour all got together to report on and discuss the issues. Then everyone went home and never heard back from IFI on whether they paid the slightest bit of attention to the forums views. At the first meeting of the new forum it will be essential that forum members make it perfectly clear to IFI that they do not want to be wasting their time at these forum meetings and that , in future, business at the forum meetings must be done in a proper structured way with detailed feedback on how their views have been taken into account by IFI. We believe that the actual online application form is some piece of work but if you are anyway interested do go ahead and apply. Closing date is 5th May."

Where can you find the application form?
I had a look at their website but couldn't see it.

bluezulu49

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Where can you find the application form?
I had a look at their website but couldn't see it.

You need to register and log on to public jobs to download an Adobe Acrobat link to the interactive form on their website. Link appears only to work with Acrobat.

pheasant tail

jkchambers wrote: »

Earlier this morning I posted this on the IFPAC Facebook page
" At many meetings of the first forum members were asked to comment on certain issues. They were given no advance notice of the issues and members were divided up into different groups and each given a different issue to discuss. After an hour all got together to report on and discuss the issues. Then everyone went home and never heard back from IFI on whether they paid the slightest bit of attention to the forums views. At the first meeting of the new forum it will be essential that forum members make it perfectly clear to IFI that they do not want to be wasting their time at these forum meetings and that , in future, business at the forum meetings must be done in a proper structured way with detailed feedback on how their views have been taken into account by IFI. We believe that the actual online application form is some piece of work but if you are anyway interested do go ahead and apply. Closing date is 5th May."

The application form is actually a joke, and it already gives me an idea of the type of people that are sought and are likely to be there. I know it didn't work well the last time John but I went ahead and applied anyway. It's easy for us all to post on a forum here and give out about this and that and how we think things should be done. But if we have any chance of change or want to offer our input or recommendations in any areas, then we should take any chance we have that comes along IMO

jkchambers

pheasant tail wrote: »

The application form is actually a joke, and it already gives me an idea of the type of people that are sought and are likely to be there. I know it didn't work well the last time John but I went ahead and applied anyway. It's easy for us all to post on a forum here and give out about this and that and how we think things should be done. But if we have any chance of change or want to offer our input or recommendations in any areas, then we should take any chance we have that comes along IMO

Good to hear that you applied and I hope more did. The angling federations were asked to each nominate 2 people and I can confirm that the Irish Federation of Pike Angling Clubs (IFPAC) have nominated 2.

jkchambers

jkchambers wrote: »

There was a meeting of the main angling federations last night and the closure of hatcheries was high on the agenda. These closures could have a dire effect on the many clubs who rely on stock from Roscrea to keep their waters stocked and club memberships reasonable. The Dodder runs behind my house and it is great to see the scores of kids on the river from St Patricks Day onwards. While there are wild trout in the Dodder they rely on stockies to provide enough fish to keep the kids interested. The federations are working on a strategy to fight these closures.
You would never know, trout anglers may soon be joining us pike anglers protesting outside the IFI offices. All should remember that anglers are fighting against IFI policies that are decided on high and not against the rank and file staff of IFI who also seem to be rather annoyed with their management these days

Word is that the Minister was not informed that IFI planned closing the hatcheries before IFI announced it and that he is not happy. He has had lots of representations on the issue from angling interests and local T.D.s and I have heard of the calls he has made. Word is that there will be a public consultation on the matter, which I am sure, will find in favour of retaining the hatcheries. Another cock up by IFI senior management.

twin_beacon

good news, hopefully they will stay open.

Zzippy

jkchambers wrote: »

Word is that the Minister was not informed that IFI planned closing the hatcheries before IFI announced it and that he is not happy. He has had lots of representations on the issue from angling interests and local T.D.s and I have heard of the calls he has made. Word is that there will be a public consultation on the matter, which I am sure, will find in favour of retaining the hatcheries. Another cock up by IFI senior management.

I hear they were closed as they were losing money and don't have the money to keep them open. It's all well and good for the minister to step in and say otherwise, but who's going to pay for it? New minister playing politics but I bet he doesn't stump up the funds...

NeverWaining

Zzippy wrote: »

I hear they were closed as they were losing money and don't have the money to keep them open. It's all well and good for the minister to step in and say otherwise, but who's going to pay for it? New minister playing politics but I bet he doesn't stump up the funds...

They spend a fortune on gill netting and removing pike which is something an increasing number of anglers (pike and trout) don't agree with. If a decent public campaign against the gill netting ever comes along they could easily be forced to stop it.
I'd imagine many are arguing that this is the obvious place to save money right now.

Zzippy

NeverWaining wrote: »

They spend a fortune on gill netting and removing pike which is something an increasing number of anglers (pike and trout) don't agree with. If a decent public campaign against the gill netting ever comes along they could easily be forced to stop it.
I'd imagine many are arguing that this is the obvious place to save money right now.

Do they? Do you know how much is spent on gillnetting (which I don't agree with either, btw) vs running the fish farms? My understanding is that one is far far more expensive than the other. I agree that gillnetting should be stopped, but the money saved would be so small in comparison to the hatchery running costs that it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

NeverWaining

Zzippy wrote: »

Do they? Do you know how much is spent on gillnetting (which I don't agree with either, btw) vs running the fish farms? My understanding is that one is far far more expensive than the other. I agree that gillnetting should be stopped, but the money saved would be so small in comparison to the hatchery running costs that it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

No I admit I don't know how much the fish farms cost to run nor how much they make back from it. But they're looking to cut costs and obviously feel that the money spent on gill netting shouldn't be touched.


I do know it costs IFI a whopping €31.72 to gill net each and every pike. Average size of fish very small, maybe 2lbs. And they slaughter thousands and thousands every year with this method.
IFI spent well over half a million euro on gill netting pike between 2010 and 2014.

€31.72 per dead pike and they charge anglers €45 membership fee for the Midlands Fisheries waters to keep the ball rolling.
Don't get me wrong, I'd still be against it if it was costing them .50c to kill a pike. But €31.72!!

Money well spent?

jkchambers

Zzippy wrote: »

I hear they were closed as they were losing money and don't have the money to keep them open. It's all well and good for the minister to step in and say otherwise, but who's going to pay for it? New minister playing politics but I bet he doesn't stump up the funds...

I was told that around 2 years ago the IFI CEO got permission to appoint Canadian consultants to look at the fish farms at a cost of around €50,000. The Canadian company presented their report, rumour has it that a certain person didnt like it and sent it back for amendment, version 2 arrives and is sent back, version 3 arrives and is sent back. I understand that version 4 is the latest one. I further understand that this is now in the hands of trout anglers who are most anxious to get their hands on version 1. When I hear the contents I will report back.

Zzippy

jkchambers wrote: »

I was told that around 2 years ago the IFI CEO got permission to appoint Canadian consultants to look at the fish farms at a cost of around €50,000. The Canadian company presented their report, rumour has it that a certain person didnt like it and sent it back for amendment, version 2 arrives and is sent back, version 3 arrives and is sent back. I understand that version 4 is the latest one. I further understand that this is now in the hands of trout anglers who are most anxious to get their hands on version 1. When I hear the contents I will report back.

FOI is a powerful tool in the right hands...

jkchambers

Zzippy wrote: »

FOI is a powerful tool in the right hands...

FOI has gone in I believe

a148pro

NeverWaining wrote: »

No I admit I don't know how much the fish farms cost to run nor how much they make back from it. But they're looking to cut costs and obviously feel that the money spent on gill netting shouldn't be touched.


I do know it costs IFI a whopping €31.72 to gill net each and every pike. Average size of fish very small, maybe 2lbs. And they slaughter thousands and thousands every year with this method.
IFI spent well over half a million euro on gill netting pike between 2010 and 2014.

€31.72 per dead pike and they charge anglers €45 membership fee for the Midlands Fisheries waters to keep the ball rolling.
Don't get me wrong, I'd still be against it if it was costing them .50c to kill a pike. But €31.72!!

Money well spent?

Where does the 31.72 figure come from, is it annual reports?

Am I right in thinking all pike are catch and release? Why don't they just let the europeans keep and eat them as the eat pike on continent?

jkchambers

a148pro wrote: »

Where does the 31.72 figure come from, is it annual reports?

Am I right in thinking all pike are catch and release? Why don't they just let the europeans keep and eat them as the eat pike on continent?

Pike removal costs were tabulated twice by IFPAC. All the information has been tabulated from freedom of information requests

NeverWaining

a148pro wrote: »

Where does the 31.72 figure come from, is it annual reports?

Am I right in thinking all pike are catch and release? Why don't they just let the europeans keep and eat them as the eat pike on continent?

That image that jkchambers just posted was sent around Facebook a while back, I worked it out from there. Electrofishing seems to work out a lot cheaper per fish.


I think you're allowed to keep two pike under a certain size. Not sure. Most practice catch and release for all pike. Except the fisheries board who still slaughter thousands every year.

jkchambers

NeverWaining wrote: »

That image that jkchambers just posted was sent around Facebook a while back, I worked it out from there. Electrofishing seems to work out a lot cheaper per fish.


I think you're allowed to keep two pike under a certain size. Not sure. Most practice catch and release for all pike. Except the fisheries board who still slaughter thousands every year.

Those tables were put up on the IFPAC facebook page earlier this year and lots of people shared the post. An angler is allowed to take 1 puke under 50 cms for the table not 2.

kildare lad

jkchambers wrote: »

Those tables were put up on the IFPAC facebook page earlier this year and lots of people shared the post. An angler is allowed to take 1 puke under 50 cms for the table not 2.

they shouldnt be allowed to take any at all... all coarse fish should be catch and release. My local river has been ruined because of the four a day rule, I understand that its a handy rule if u deadbait which i do, but it allows people to use the river as a meal ticket.I dont bother goin down there anymore even tho its 5mins from my house.
The scary thing is that its actually patrolled because theres salmon goin up it. So u can only imagine how bad it is on canals that arent patrolled. Is it true theres only two baliffs fisheries officers* policing the whole of dublin/kildare area?

MOD: Edited as per charter