Small claims court value

Doylers

Quick question, bought a phone on contract with meteor. Phone is fault a year and a half into the 2 year contract they refuse to repair it under the sales of goods act.

When applying for the small claims court can I ask for the value of an out of warranty repair(321.30) or can I only ask for the value I initially paid for the phone of 150. We all know monthly premiums include a % of the value of the phone.

Joseph

It would be reasonable to ask for the value of the out of warranty repair

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I thought you could only go after the original purchase price. But, I could be wrong.

njs030

Does the phone have a 2 year warranty? Generally the 2 year contract applies to the line rental and most phones only have a one year warranty.

rock22

notjustsweet wrote: »

Does the phone have a 2 year warranty? Generally the 2 year contract applies to the line rental and most phones only have a one year warranty.

Warranty is not relevant

njs030

rock22 wrote: »

Warranty is not relevant

How so? He wants them to repair it under warranty!

Sleeper12

Sale of goods act in the case of mobile phones is the first 12 months. You are 6 months late for this. Many manufacturers offer a 24 months warranty Samsung is one & I think Apple are another.

Joseph

notjustsweet wrote: »

How so? He wants them to repair it under warranty!

No I'm sure he just wants it repaired, warranty be damned. Warranties are a tool companies use to make you think you're out of luck once the warranty has expired.

Under Irish law you have up to six years to get redress for something, depending on the situation. For example it's reasonable that a 50 euro phone might only last a year but a 600+ euro phone should last 3/4+ years. This is all depending on circumstances of course.

Taking for granted the OP's phone is a high end phone then 18 months of use is not an acceptable length of time for the phone to cease working correctly and he is within his legal rights to have that problem dealt with. OP has asked retailer to fix the issue, they refused.

Srameen, I've heard of people claiming other related expenses to it. In this case you could argue that you should be reimbursed for part of the contract duration since the phone is provided as part of the contract.

Joseph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sale of goods act in the case of mobile phones is the first 12 months. You are 6 months late for this. Many manufacturers offer a 24 months warranty Samsung is one & I think Apple are another.

Please direct me to where it states this in the legislation.

Sleeper12

Joseph wrote:

Please direct me to where it states this in the legislation.

Joseph wrote:

Taking for granted the OP's phone is a high end phone then 18 months of use is not an acceptable length of time for the phone to cease working correctly and he is within his legal rights to have that problem dealt with. OP has asked retailer to fix the issue, they refused.

I'd take it for granted that the phone is not a high end phone. As I said earlier these usually have a 2 years parts and Labour warranty. If the carrier said that they can't do anything for him after 18 months then it suggests to me that it is not a high end phone or the carrier feels that the damage is wear and tear.

Maybe the op could post details of the make and model of the phone and a description of the problem with the phone. It would stop up taking things for granted.

L1011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'd take it for granted that the phone is not a high end phone. As I said earlier these usually have a 2 years parts and Labour warranty. If the carrier said that they can't do anything for him after 18 months then it suggests to me that it is not a high end phone or the carrier feels that the damage is wear and tear.

Maybe the op could post details of the make and model of the phone and a description of the problem with the phone. It would stop up taking things for granted.

150 price on a 24 month contract would indicate a fairly high end phone to me.

You are completely deluded believing the Sale of Goods Act only applies for 12 months to phones, also.

foggy_lad

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sale of goods act in the case of mobile phones is the first 12 months. You are 6 months late for this. Many manufacturers offer a 24 months warranty Samsung is one & I think Apple are another.

Rubbish.

The sale of goods act states that the goods must be fit for purpose. must be reasonably durable and if a repair is offered or attempted it must be permanent.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html

Consumer contracts are protected by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980.

Under this Act the purchaser of goods has a number of rights - the main ones are

Goods must be of merchantable quality – goods should be of reasonable quality taking into account what they are meant to do, their durability and their price
Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do
Goods must be as described - the buyer must not be mislead into buying something by the description of goods or services given orally by a salesperson or an advertisement.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods#2

What are your consumer rights?

The solution to the problem can depend on a number of things • Have you examined the item and are happy that it is what you agreed to buy?

Have you ‘accepted’ the item?
Did you agree that the product is what you want and have used it without any issues for a period of time?
Is the problem with the item major or minor?

If you bought an item that has a fault, either major or minor, you have different rights depending on different things. Your contract is with the retailer or supplier who sold you the product so if there is a fault, it is up to them to fix it. In all cases you should act quickly. We have given a few examples below of the most common problems callers to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission have.

Reject item - Full refund

If you agreed to buy something and it simply does not work from the outset, then you are entitled to reject the goods and get a refund from the seller. Examples include a new washing machine which fills with water but does not spin or drain, or a new TV set which the audio doesn’t work on. In both of these examples, the consumer has discovered a major problem/fault with the item as soon as they go to use it for the first time. In the shop they agreed to buy it, but clearly there is something wrong with the one they were given. The consumer has not “accepted” the item – they brought the item home but it does not do what it said it would and the consumer had the right to reject it. They can return it to the shop and demand a full refund. This will terminate the contract they had for the item with the seller.

Repair

If you start using the item for some time then it is deemed that you have accepted the item. But if you discover a fault then you are entitled to have the item repaired or replaced free of charge – provided you did not cause the damage. If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it. In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can say no - but if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.

Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.

Replacement

If it is impossible to repair the item, or if it is more convenient than repairing it, then the seller may replace it for you. For example, if you bought a laptop and it overheated, causing significant damage to itself, it may be very difficult or even impossible for the seller to have the laptop fixed for you, so they may offer to replace it instead. If you opt for a replacement, it should be the same as the item you bought, or of similar quality and price. You should not have to pay extra for a replacement and should be given the difference in price if the replacement costs less than the item you originally bought.

Price reduction

If the item has been repaired or replaced and it is still not doing what it is supposed to do correctly, you could look to have a reduction in the price you paid for it, if you are happy to put up with it. For example, if you bought a bicycle with 21 gears which develops a fault and needs to be repaired. After the repair you are told that the bike now only has 18 working gears. You may still be happy to keep it with 18 working gears but you could look for a reduction in the price you paid for it.
- See more at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods#2

Sleeper12

L1011 wrote:

150 price on a 24 month contract would indicate a fairly high end phone to me.

150 Euro for a phone on a 24 month contract with Meteor would definitely not be a high end phone. After looking at their website I see high end phones ranging from 400 to 800 on a 24month contract.

Like I said it would be helpful if op were to post details of the issue and the phone. This could make a huge difference to any discussion here. Peoples idea of wear and tear could differ greatly for example. Everyone here, including myself are just surmising. In reality we've very little it facts.

L1011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

150 Euro for a phone on a 24 month contract with Meteor would definitely not be a high end phone. After looking at their website I see high end phones ranging from 400 to 800 on a 24month contract.

Like I said it would be helpful if op were to post details of the issue and the phone. This could make a huge difference to any discussion here. Peoples idea of wear and tear could differ greatly for example. Everyone here, including myself are just surmising. In reality we've very little it facts.

If your idea of high end only covers Apple's limited products, perhaps.

Pretty much all the phones above 50 quid on a 24 month contract cost hundreds to buy sim-free and would be easily expected to last a hell of a lot longer than 18 months.

You don't understand the basics of the law so giving you more facts won't help!

njs030

L1011 wrote: »

If your idea of high end only covers Apple's limited products, perhaps.

Pretty much all the phones above 50 quid on a 24 month contract cost hundreds to buy sim-free and would be easily expected to last a hell of a lot longer than 18 months.

You don't understand the basics of the law so giving you more facts won't help!

I agree with this, my phone was phone of the year and still free on a contract.

The problem is without knowing what the fault is it's hard to advise Op properly.

Duvetdays

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'd take it for granted that the phone is not a high end phone. As I said earlier these usually have a 2 years parts and Labour warranty. If the carrier said that they can't do anything for him after 18 months then it suggests to me that it is not a high end phone

It doesn't matter if it's a high end Samsung or a cheap as chips Samsung they still come with a 2yr warranty. 25month warranty actually most manufacturers come with. The extra month is to allow for shipping and waiting to be sold. If the warranty checker the repair centres use shows its out of warranty that's were the receipt kicks in to show it was bought within a 2year period. Apple are one of the only manufacturers that have a 1yr (13mth warranty)

L1011

Duvetdays wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it's a high end Samsung or a cheap as chips Samsung they still come with a 2yr warranty. 25month warranty actually most manufacturers come with. The extra month is to allow for shipping and waiting to be sold. If the warranty checker the repair centres use shows its out of warranty that's were the receipt kicks in to show it was bought within a 2year period. Apple are one of the only manufacturers that have a 1yr (13mth warranty)

Manufacturers warranties are irrelevant when it comes to consumer rights enforcement, at that.

It is legitimate to expect a phone of that cost to work for the full time of its contract and beyond - 18 months is far too early to fail.

Meteor's outsourced customer care is terrible and they don't understand the basics of Irish law. Letters get a lot further, usually.

njs030

L1011 wrote: »

Manufacturers warranties are irrelevant when it comes to consumer rights enforcement, at that.

It is legitimate to expect a phone of that cost to work for the full time of its contract and beyond - 18 months is far too early to fail.

Meteor's outsourced customer care is terrible and they don't understand the basics of Irish law. Letters get a lot further, usually.

Again it depends what happened. Physical damage isn't covered, nor is misuse.

L1011

notjustsweet wrote: »

Again it depends what happened. Physical damage isn't covered, nor is misuse.

Obviously. However, your initial statement about warranties is still irrelevant.

theteal

What's wrong with the phone, OP?

njs030

L1011 wrote: »

Obviously. However, your initial statement about warranties is still irrelevant.

I phrased it badly however you wouldn't believe the amount of people who damage the phone and expect it to be fixed.

Sleeper12

Duvetdays wrote:

It doesn't matter if it's a high end Samsung or a cheap as chips Samsung they still come with a 2yr warranty. 25month warranty actually most manufacturers come with. The extra month is to allow for shipping and waiting to be sold. If the warranty checker the repair centres use shows its out of warranty that's were the receipt kicks in to show it was bought within a 2year period. Apple are one of the only manufacturers that have a 1yr (13mth warranty)

This is my point exactly. There is not enough information here. If phone has 24 months warranty and its not being repaired under the warranty then the shop has decided that its normal wear and tear or damage caused by the op. Unless op posts all the facts then its a pointless discussion. Some are taking low end phone some high end phone.some say it's in warranty some say not. None of us know.

A manufacturers warranty is offered on top of your standard legal rights. It should be seen as something extra they give you.

Joseph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is my point exactly. There is not enough information here. If phone has 24 months warranty and its not being repaired under the warranty then the shop has decided that its normal wear and tear or damage caused by the op. Unless op posts all the facts then its a pointless discussion. Some are taking low end phone some high end phone.some say it's in warranty some say not. None of us know.

A manufacturers warranty is offered on top of your standard legal rights. It should be seen as something extra they give you.

OP hasn't stated the cost of his plan per month. The price of the phone is relative to the cost per month, so it could be a high end phone. Regardless of whether it is a 200 or a 600 euro phone it is not acceptable that it should stop working correctly within 18 months. We have to take OP at face value that his phone has developed a fault, it's not for us to decide whether OP is exaggerating normal wear and tear.

Again, warranties are not something extra given to you, it is a mechanism used by manufacturers to make you think once you're out of warranty you're out of luck.

Sleeper12

Joseph wrote:

OP hasn't stated the cost of his plan per month. The price of the phone is relative to the cost per month, so it could be a high end phone. Regardless of whether it is a 200 or a 600 euro phone it is not acceptable that it should stop working correctly within 18 months. We have to take OP at face value that his phone has developed a fault, it's not for us to decide whether OP is exaggerating normal wear and tear.

Joseph wrote:

Again, warranties are not something extra given to you, it is a mechanism used by manufacturers to make you think once you're out of warranty you're out of luck.

I say for the third or fourth time unless op gives full details it's just guess work here by everyone. I for one would be very interested to know what reason meteor gave for not offering a repair or replacement. They didn't just say no. They gave a reason

Doylers

I'm just reading though everything now so i'll update this post when I finish reading everything in more detail.

Phone is an iPhone 6 by the way. The repair cost I quoted is the out of warranty cost by apple if I were to repair it myself. Apple have also advised that it is with meteor to sort out.

I suppose coming at it from an ex-apple employee view, Apple always cover phone that have a manufacturing defect after 1 one year limited warranty. So if a phone died after 3 years they would fix it free of charge since their obligated too.I assumed meteor would be the same

As for the fault, the phone switches off at around the 40-50% mark so imagine being out and you think oh i'll take a photo but then the phone dies constantly. I troubleshooted with apple they indicate a hardware fault. The battery is testing fine so to them it indicates something else hardware related.

Theres no misuse to the phone, infact its actually insured incase I do kill it, to which the meteor store rep said "Sure you would be better of hopping it off a wall, it would cost less then if meteor charged you to repair it".

Can a mod chime here: I have an email from meteor saying no to the repair can I post it?

Joseph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I say for the third or fourth time unless op gives full details it's just guess work here by everyone. I for one would be very interested to know what reason meteor gave for not offering a repair or replacement. They didn't just say no. They gave a reason

I have experienced a flat no before.

Doylers wrote: »

I'm just reading though everything now so i'll update this post when I finish reading everything in more detail.

Phone is an iPhone 6 by the way. The repair cost I quoted is the out of warranty cost by apple if I were to repair it myself. Apple have also advised that it is with meteor to sort out.

I suppose coming at it from an ex-apple employee view, Apple always cover phone that have a manufacturing defect after 1 one year limited warranty. So if a phone died after 3 years they would fix it free of charge since their obligated too.I assumed meteor would be the same

As for the fault, the phone switches off at around the 40-50% mark so imagine being out and you think oh i'll take a photo but then the phone dies constantly. I troubleshooted with apple they indicate a hardware fault. The battery is testing fine so to them it indicates something else hardware related.

Theres no misuse to the phone, infact its actually insured incase I do kill it, to which the meteor store rep said "Sure you would be better of hopping it off a wall, it would cost less then if meteor charged you to repair it".

Can a mod chime here: I have an email from meteor saying no to the repair can I post it?

Based on your extra info I stand behind my previous posts. If you wanted you could try ringing Apple and telling them the retailer isn't playing ball, they might get onto the retailer.

ssmith6287

If Apple would repair it after 3 years, why dont you just take them up on the offer. At least it would get genuine parts. If you leave it to meteor to repair it they might not

Doylers

ssmith6287 wrote: »

If Apple would repair it after 3 years, why dont you just take them up on the offer. At least it would get genuine parts. If you leave it to meteor to repair it they might not

He mentioned that in the context of if I had purchased it off them. Since I didn't they would require me to pay. The sales of goods act applies to the seller so its only meteor I can really try force

MarkAnthony

Sales of Goods Act was written in 1893, I somehow doubt it has much about mobile phones in it :pac:

wmpdd3

A customer where I worked previously, won a claim on a 2 year old phone, they were awarded a new phone or the cost of buying a new one out of contact. (680 euro iirc. ) the company sourced a replacement phone.

The contract was set aside, the customer still had to pay it no matter when the outcome.

Doylers

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sales of Goods Act was written in 1893, I somehow doubt it has much about mobile phones in it :pac:

Hahaha very true but in that situation you could infer the EU legislation that covers you up until 2 years?

wmpdd3 wrote: »

A customer where I worked previously, won a claim on a 2 year old phone, they were awarded a new phone or the cost of buying a new one out of contact. (680 euro iirc. ) the company sourced a replacement phone.

The contract was set aside, the customer still had to pay it no matter when the outcome.

I suppose the question I have from reading this is would a judge if it went to court, decide a value themselves i.e. give you the price of the phone vs a repair. As for the contact I am still paying it