Small claims court value

MarkAnthony

Doylers wrote: »

Hahaha very true but in that situation you could infer the EU legislation that covers you up until 2 years?

There is no such legislation, dont get me started :pac:

Joseph

Doylers wrote: »

Hahaha very true but in that situation you could infer the EU legislation that covers you up until 2 years?

Ireland has not enacted this EU directive into Irish law as our consumer law is supposedly more powerful than this (I mention in previous post about having up to 6 years for redress).

Doylers wrote: »

I suppose the question I have from reading this is would a judge if it went to court, decide a value themselves i.e. give you the price of the phone vs a repair. As for the contact I am still paying it

You would go to the small claims with some proof showing the cost of a new replacement phone out of contract and you would likely be awarded that cost.

Contract wise once you've a phone that can make calls etc then it's still valid I'd imagine.

whiterebel

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sales of Goods Act was written in 1893, I somehow doubt it has much about mobile phones in it :pac:

Sale of Goods and Suppy of services Act 1980. Didn't mention much about molbiles then, either but it doesn't need to.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/enacted/en/html

MarkAnthony

whiterebel wrote: »

Sale of Goods and Suppy of services Act 1980. Didn't mention much about molbiles then, either but it doesn't need to.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/enacted/en/html

Doesn't need to mention anything about Dinasours either. However Dinasours were never mentioned as something being specifically covered.

Doylers

I think i'll just go for it and see what happens :pac: I'll ask for the full whack of a replacement phone just a bit worried about going that route since the per month cost include the price of the phone. Best case scenarios they don't contest and I get the price of a new phone or the judge gives me the cost of a repair. I'm better off asking for more I think since it can always go down but theres no chance of getting more then I ask for. Any objections?

Citizens info

Bear in mind that you can normally only claim the amount for which you are directly out of pocket, in other words, the amount you paid for the faulty goods and/or any cost involved in having them repaired. It is therefore a good idea to keep all receipts and documentation to show what these amounts are.

MarkAnthony

I'm not trying to turn this into a legal lesson, but you do have a duty to mitigate loss.

It might be more reasonable to get the repair done and then claim the cost (as someone above suggested). Trying to claim for incidentals while you wait for the case to be heard is not going to come across well.

Again straying off into the legal lessons, common law courts are not their to force anyone to do anything simply award damages to make the person whole. They will only go as far as neccesary in that regard.

Doylers

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm not trying to turn this into a legal lesson, but you do have a duty to mitigate loss.

It might be more reasonable to get the repair done and then claim the cost (as someone above suggested). Trying to claim for incidentals while you wait for the case to be heard is not going to come across well.

Again straying off into the legal lessons, common law courts are not their to force anyone to do anything simply award damages to make the person whole. They will only go as far as neccesary in that regard.

What do you mean claim for incidentals ? So you'd be on the opinion go for price of claim vs price of a replacement ?

MarkAnthony

Let's say you're paying €50 a month. It takes 6 months to finally get to 'court'. You can't turn round and say I couldn't access the service for 6 months so I want €300. You will also only get a % of the phone vlaue as you've had the use of it for 18 months.

You're better off presenting your actual damages - e.g. a reasonable repair or if it's too much to repair, the cost of a secondhand replacement.

Sleeper12

Doylers wrote:

I think i'll just go for it and see what happens I'll ask for the full whack of a replacement phone just a bit worried about going that route since the per month cost include the price of the phone. Best case scenarios they don't contest and I get the price of a new phone or the judge gives me the cost of a repair. I'm better off asking for more I think since it can always go down but theres no chance of getting more then I ask for. Any objections?

There is a 25 Euro fee to lodge a claim in the small claims court. If it gets as far as the court itself they give everyone the same appointment, I think it's 10:30am even though you may not be called till 4pm. So you need to have the full day boxed off just in case. The small claims court is extremely sympathetic towards the claimant. I think you will do well there.

drunkmonkey

Doyle's is the reason their saying its out of warranty just because it's over 12mts old? If so get onto Apple and try and get a senior advisor on the case that's the best route of action.
Apple will force Meteors hand, if not ask Apple to book the phone in directly with them but it shouldn't come to that.

Doylers

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Doyle's is the reason their saying its out of warranty just because it's over 12mts old? If so get onto Apple and try and get a senior advisor on the case that's the best route of action.
Apple will force Meteors hand, if not ask Apple to book the phone in directly with them but it shouldn't come to that.

Yeah thats their reason. I have but the fight isn't with apple and to be totally fair I feel I should push meteor myself to try stop this carry on. I have submitted to the small claims so just waiting to hear back from them about if I can continue on . FYI I asked for the repair cost + 25 fee to claim so lets see what happens.

drunkmonkey

It'll be well out of warranty by the time it's settled, Forget the small claims court, did you buy online? If you bought from a store it might not be owned by meteor so you could even be taking the wrong business to court.
Nobody makes a call on whether an iPhone is in or out of warranty unless their Apple approved, who told you it was out of warranty; it wasn't meteor it must have been a 3rd party?
Seriously sensior advisor is the only way to go, this small claim might not be even settled in 2yrs. Sherrif won't even dream of collecting unless everything is 100% with the case, it's not as simple as you think to collect money once you have a judgement.

Joseph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It'll be well out of warranty by the time it's settled, Forget the small claims court, did you buy online? If you bought from a store it might not be owned by meteor so you could even be taking the wrong business to court.
Nobody makes a call on whether an iPhone is in or out of warranty unless their Apple approved, who told you it was out of warranty; it wasn't meteor it must have been a 3rd party?
Seriously sensior advisor is the only way to go, this small claim might not be even settled in 2yrs. Sherrif won't even dream of collecting unless everything is 100% with the case, it's not as simple as you think to collect money once you have a judgement.

It doesn't matter that it will be out of warranty. The small claims court is quite efficient, it will not take 2+ years.

Lux23

It seems to me that the legislation is on the OP's side as technically they are obliged to offer a fix for six years. The warranty or guarantee has no bearing on your consumer rights here so just forget about it.

Find the information on your rights on line, print it out and bring it to the shop explaining what you want them to do. If they say the fault is down to misuse, ask them to prove this independently? After all how does a guy in a shop know how the fault has occurred? If this doesn't work, make an official complaint to Meteor's customer service department. If you don't get what you want then you should go to the Small Claims and you will probably win.

drunkmonkey

Joseph wrote: »

It doesn't matter that it will be out of warranty. The small claims court is quite efficient, it will not take 2+ years.

It does as if the sheriff doesn't collect, Apple won't touch it, nows the time time to deal with Apple not flap about with the SCC. Not every avenue is exhausted by op he just thinks this is an easy route to getting what he wants, it's not as easy as dealing with Apple that I can guarantee him.

Doylers

Im confused why people think its up to Apple to fix though can someone explain why. Granted you get a one year limited warranty with them and if anything happens you can go direct to them. After that their under no obligation to fix it, it would be their decision if they wanted to out of curiosity.

The only hand I can 'legally' force is meteors with the legislation. Would apple fix it if I kept at them and escalated it to tier 2.....maybe. And to an extent I want to see how this plays out with meteor since their saying its not their problem.

Thank you for your email and I am sorry to hear you are experiencing issues with your Meteor handset.

I can advise that when you signed your Meteor contract, you've agreed with the network Terms and Condition. Under the return and repair policy, we can only offer free repair under the manufacturer warranty. As the warranty elapsed, unfortunately we are unable to offer repair at this stage. You can send your phone for repair under your own expense.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause you.

Sleeper12

Doylers wrote:

The only hand I can 'legally' force is meteors with the legislation. Would apple fix it if I kept at them and escalated it to tier 2.....maybe. And to an extent I want to see how this plays out with meteor since their saying its not their problem.

I actually thought you'd win hands down in the small claims court. As I said in an earlier post they side very much for the consumer. It'll be very interesting to see if the contract you signed can effect your rights. Possibly if they can argue that you didn't pay full price for the phone then you can sign away your rights? I honestly don't know but please keep us posted.
Good luck on the day.

Doylers

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I actually thought you'd win hands down in the small claims court. As I said in an earlier post they side very much for the consumer. It'll be very interesting to see if the contract you signed can effect your rights. Possibly if they can argue that you didn't pay full price for the phone then you can sign away your rights? I honestly don't know but please keep us posted.
Good luck on the day.

I'm extremely interested myself, I will indeed whatever happens might help others in the future.

drunkmonkey

If Meteor are refusing to fix the phone you contact apple support, the case will be escalated to a senior advisor who will contact the repair company or meteor on your behalf to get the issue resolved. Warranty as per Apple website, http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/ just tell Apple they are a reseller of your products and won't help you. They won't be long sorting them out.

I've no doubt you'd get a judgment if you are 100% correct in who your actually looking for a judgment against and confident the sheriff will be able to recover the amount your looking for.

Look you can still go the small claims court route while putting pressure on Apple, just because your doing one you shouldn't give up on the other. One phone call to Apple maybe 2 is all it will take to get the matter resolved.

drunkmonkey

Doylers wrote: »

I'm extremely interested myself, I will indeed whatever happens might help others in the future.

Im speaking from experience, I'm trying to save you time, money and get your phone fixed. You don't need to see what happens other people have already done it.

Lux23

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Im speaking from experience, I'm trying to save you time, money and get your phone fixed. You don't need to see what happens other people have already done it.

Experience of what though? Are you saying Meteor would refuse to pay out after the Small Claim case gone against them? This isn't some little phone shop on Moore Street, it's a very large company who are unlikely to want to risk a visit from the Sheriff.

purplecow1977

With the small claims court, will the other party pay the €25 charge for me if it is found in my favour?
I'm having an issue with something I posted already about and it doesn't appear that I'll be given a refund so small claims court will be next step. I don't think it's fair to pay €25 for something that isn't even my fault. I'm wondering if that cost will be repaid to me. Thanks.

drunkmonkey

No the €25 is gone there's a sheriffs fee as well if you need one but that's refundable if the sheriff is able to collect, but costs can't be awarded if it goes against you, you have to factor in the cost of your time etc as well and see if it's worth it.
Who ever your claiming against can also counter claim so in the case of a business they could look for parts, labour etc that they've provided.
The first part of the process is mediation.

purplecow1977

Thanks drunkmonkey. SCC was recommended as next step by the Consumer people.
Long story short bought something for a car, it doesn't work, business are refusing to take it back as they have a 'no returns' policy. (It's been posted back, with a letter of complaint but still nothing)

drunkmonkey

Did you get a signed delivery to an exact person?

The "no returns" policy doesn't hold water as long as the goods were new.

They'll probably just ignore the scc and wait for the sherrif and offer him a few chairs to auction when he arrives, they's why I'm saying it better be worth it as you may have to take 3 trips to court. The business probably won't bother taking any.

The first step though is someone mediates between you and the business from the courts office before it actually goes to court, you'll have a fair idea how it's going to go once the clerk talks to the business on your behalf.
You need specifics 100%, name and address of business and if you had the person the clerk should contact you'd make life easy for him.
Have a word with the business one more time, if no luck just ask who the court should get in contact with.

I don't hold any faith in the advice of the consumer agency there way to quick to recommend the scc.

purplecow1977

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Did you get a signed delivery to an exact person?

The "no returns" policy doesn't hold water as long as the goods were new.

They'll probably just ignore the scc and wait for the sherrif and offer him a few chairs to auction when he arrives, they's why I'm saying it better be worth it as you may have to take 3 trips to court. The business probably won't bother taking any.

The first step though is someone mediates between you and the business from the courts office before it actually goes to court, you'll have a fair idea how it's going to go once the clerk talks to the business on your behalf.
You need specifics 100%, name and address of business and if you had the person the clerk should contact you'd make life easy for him.
Have a word with the business one more time, if no luck just ask who the court should get in contact with.

I don't hold any faith in the advice of the consumer agency there way to quick to recommend the scc.

When the item was received, they phoned to remind that there were no returns (as they stated already on their website). It wasn't a 'new' item but cost over €100 and was meant to work!

It seems so wrong that a faulty item can be sold without any redress.

drunkmonkey

Probably not worth it for €100 if you have a job you'd need to take time off work to go to court a few times. Not sure if you even have a case as it was no returns and used.

Is the item fixable, would they meet you half way on getting it working.

purplecow1977

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Probably not worth it for €100 if you have a job you'd need to take time off work to go to court a few times. Not sure if you even have a case as it was no returns and used.

Is the item fixable, would they meet you half way on getting it working.

I needed a replacement so when that wasn't working I bought another one that did work.

Not worth it for €100? that is such a shame. What a rip off that people can sell things and not have to ensure that they even work. If I sold a phone that doesn't work on donedeal for €100, you're saying it's that much hassle for the other person to fight their corner that it's probably not worth it? What an eye opener

I understand it was 'no returns' but if something doesn't work, surely this 'no returns' thing is obsolete?

drunkmonkey

That's pretty much it, buyer beware and don't buy a phone from done deal. In you case though I'm assuming it was a scrapper would they have not just exchanged it for you if it was faulty, I presume you'd no way of testing it until it was fitted.
You could go the scc route and might make €75 in 6mts, but tot up you time and see what 4 days without work and probably another day between phone calls and working with sheriff would cost you, would you have much change out of €750 in costs you can't claim for?

I'd say Doyler who stared this thread might be ok as meteor will probably buckle and apologise at the mediation stage but he'll have spent €25 and been without his phone longer than necessary had he followed through with Apple directly.

purplecow1977

Thanks for your advice. Very helpful. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but it seems justice doesn't always prevail! Lesson learned.