John Giles to be dropped by RTE

gormdubhgorm

There is one thing about Giles I really enjoyed.
Certain things always really annoyed him.
For example:
If Danny Mills was mentioned or if it was said that teams always play better with 10 men.

breffni bogballer

All good things must come to an end,probably should have went with Bill, i think this will be Eammons last gig as well

Arghus

Giles is a class act and he'll be sorely missed.

darlett

Jayop wrote: »

Anyone who says it's a bad decision or that they'll miss him seems to be of the opinion that football analysis in itself should be entertainment. I feel it should be informative.

I certainly feel its better as a form of entertainment. Football's not so very complicated that those who are watching it regularly need telling during every match about the workings of the offside trap. Granted Neville and Carragher worked well as a unit on Sky but them aside I don't think I can regard any other analysts on ITV, Sky, BBC as significantly informative compared to the panel. Significantly boring yes. This talk of 15 years past the sell-by date is way out. The Panel will indeed be missed by me and many.

RugbyLover123

Gary Neville aside, I think people have a problem with every pundit regardless of what station they work with.

I quite liked listening to Giles, Dunphy & Brady a few years ago purely because they had the tendency to say something controversial and not just the bland stuff pundits always say.

But times have changed and when you are a pundit for a match and you don't know the players playing bar 3 or 4 then it's time to go. Incredibly frustrating watching that panel the last few times and they don't have a clue about the players or teams they're talking about!

As far as Giles on Newstalk goes, I've listened to him a few times and every time he goes off on a tangent about some team/player from the 50/60s and how they'd wipe the floor in today's game. Hiding his lack of knowledge on the modern game and players by comparing it to his time.

XR3i

rumour on the twitter has it that rte have to increase the wages of tubridy and darcy , so they gonna get rid of gilesy

fcuk rte

#nopaytvlicence

bucketybuck

Rte is the only station where I'll actively avoid or mute the halftime analysis, and its all because of the horse**** from those 3 lads. Sad to think that there are legions of barstool gombeens out there who think "the panel" is the best of craic and wet themselves at what they might say next. :rolleyes: I suspect a large overlap between fans of the Panel and fans of Mrs Browns Boys.

osarusan

I always thought Giles was a very good analyst of a game in progress. Able to see stuff that other analysts couldn't.

But his lack of any research ("I don't know too much about this team Bill") which seemed to be something of a badge of honour for him annoyed me a lot. He would still go on stereotypes of teams (like the dour defensive German team) well after they'd changed completely.

I actually think Sadlier is pretty good but the rapidfire format of mid/post match discussion doesn't suit him the best.

razorblunt

As someone that lives away, I love catching up games when home and hearing Dunphy and Giles give their honest opinion on what they're seeing.
Paul Scholes and Gary Neville are the only two I can see that will do that on other stations. Souness keeps a lid on it on Sky somewhat compared to when he's on other shows.

Switzerland vs Ukraine years ago at the Euros was a prime example, the most awful 0-0 at half time, Souness with his Sky hat still on tried to find positives talking about "tactics, nerves and poise". Bill threw the question to Giles who started off a rant about "its the worse game of football he's seen in a long while, you'd see better down the park". Souness then jumped back in with his true feelings, shackles released.

Unearthly

Agree with most that his days are well over.

Used to love watching them squirm when Ronaldo kept banging in the goals after they spent all pre match doubting him.

Bill was the biggest loss

Say Your Number

They were the only ones to highlight Ronaldo's negative side, they were proven wrong ultimately but at least they were weren't afraid to say what they thought of him, did any other channel dare to say a bad word about him.

darlett

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rte is the only station where I'll actively avoid or mute the halftime analysis, and its all because of the horse**** from those 3 lads. Sad to think that there are legions of barstool gombeens out there who think "the panel" is the best of craic and wet themselves at what they might say next. :rolleyes: I suspect a large overlap between fans of the Panel and fans of Mrs Browns Boys.

Fair play to you. Most would be more embarrassed to admit they don't avoid or mute the likes of Jamie Redknapp, Mikey Owen, McManaman etc. A intersection B of the relevant Venn diagram shows a large overlapping of fans of Jamie and fans of Loose Women, so all things considered I'll take my chances with the company down at the bar... where supposedly people go to listen to the h/t analysis. Er, ok.

bucketybuck

darlett wrote: »

Fair play to you. Most would be more embarrassed to admit they don't avoid or mute the likes of Jamie Redknapp, Mikey Owen, McManaman etc.

I don't listen to Redknapp or Owen either, the difference is that they are irrelevant, their boring cliches are just there in the background and I take no notice of them.

The rte panels on the other hand are actively annoying, their trolling comments and proud ignorance actively demand that they be switched off.

Mr.Micro

Giles just has an on and off button! No ad lib or humour, dull and dry. It was frequently amusing to see the predictions of the panel and then all the back tracking after they got it wrong. The whole format of Giles et al is stale and dated now, often talking about games that old people would struggle to remember and completely irrelevant to today. That's RTE though as well, stale.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Say Your Number wrote: »

They were the only ones to highlight Ronaldo's negative side, they were proven wrong ultimately but at least they were weren't afraid to say what they thought of him, did any other channel dare to say a bad word about him.

But they went completely overboard in their criticism of him and refused to give him credit for how great he was long after it was obvious that he was a truly great player.It was quiet embarassing after a while listening to their critcisms of him.

Richard Hillman

Giles once said about Ronaldo that he won't be considered as one of the great players because he doesn't track back :pac:

Say Your Number

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But they went completely overboard in their criticism of him and refused to give him credit for how great he was long after it was obvious that he was a truly great player.It was quiet embarassing after a while listening to their critcisms of him.

That was mainly Dunphy who went over the top, Gilesy was critical but he wasn't as dramatic about it, when everyone else was fawning over him it was refreshing to hear someone to highlight what a vain spoilt brat he could be at times, Giles summed him up perfectly a few years ago "He does things great players do, but he also does things that great players don't do"

deaddonkey15

I think they over did the Ronaldo criticism at the time, like they do the with the Premier League bashing now. They talk about it on practically every Champions League night. It's quite predictable and boring.

Arghus

Giles was/is the best at analysisng a game as it's playing out right there and then and has insight, wit and charm. And does his best to be oftentimes ludicriously entertaining - "He's a headbanger Bill/ Would he kill his Granny?". Honestly, I don't care all that much if he's behind the times in the research department. He's worth his weight in gold in other ways.

Compare that to the Richie Sadlier generation - They know all the names, they know all the formations but what do they do with all of it: NOTHING.

Is there any bit of insight from the upcoming generation of RTE pundits that gave you a new understanding? Honestly? I doubt it. Okay, maybe you didn't learn a lot from Johnny recently either, but at least he was entertaining. These new fellas don't even have that in their favour!

That_Guy

Dennis Irwin was brilliant when they had him in for the World Cup the odd time. He's not got the most exuberant of voices (see: Father Ted) but I thought he was very underrated. I'd like to see him back.

EDIT: I'm not a big fan of TV punditry anyway and rarely watch it these days but the build up to Ireland games are always quite enjoyable on RTE given the hyperbole thrown around the place.

tayto lover

runnerholic wrote: »

Still the best analyst and reader of a game on TV. I will sorely miss him.

I used to live in One Channel land myself.

Brian?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But they went completely overboard in their criticism of him and refused to give him credit for how great he was long after it was obvious that he was a truly great player.It was quiet embarassing after a while listening to their critcisms of him.

Giles has said repeatedly that Ronaldo is a great player, many times over the last few years.

He's a great player and a huge spoiled brat of a man. The way he treats team mates is a disgrace. The RTE panel were the only ones to highlight this, even though it was blindingly obvious.

Contrast how Giles speaks about Messi, he never says a bad word about him.

tayto lover

Brian? wrote: »

Giles has said repeatedly that Ronaldo is a great player, many times over the last few years.

He's a great player and a huge spoiled brat of a man. The way he treats team mates is a disgrace. The RTE panel were the only ones to highlight this, even though it was blindingly obvious.

Contrast how Giles speaks about Messi, he never says a bad word about him.

Ah now who could speak blasphemy about the world's best player Messi?

Brian?

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah now who could speak blasphemy about the world's best player Messi?

Actually the only one I know of is Ronaldo, he despises Messi apparently.

dinorebel

"He was a good commentator Eamonn but not a great one"

Dirty Dingus McGee

Brian? wrote: »

Giles has said repeatedly that Ronaldo is a great player, many times over the last few years.

He's a great player and a huge spoiled brat of a man. The way he treats team mates is a disgrace. The RTE panel were the only ones to highlight this, even though it was blindingly obvious.

Contrast how Giles speaks about Messi, he never says a bad word about him.

He was a great player for a long while before the RTE panel started to give him the credit he deserved, they finally had to cave in at some stage.

Ulysses Gaze

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He was a great player for a long while before the RTE panel started to give him the credit he deserved, they finally had to cave in at some stage.

The panel always said that Ronaldo did a lot of the things that the great players could do, but did some things that the great players would never do.

Mainly this was in relation to his histrionics, whining at his team mates and diving which they, and lots of people, despise about Ronaldo.

deaddonkey15

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The panel always said that Ronaldo did a lot of the things that the great players could do, but did some things that the great players would never do.

Mainly this was in relation to his histrionics, whining at his team mates and diving which they, and lots of people, despise about Ronaldo.

A lot of great players have done as bad if not worse things than Ronaldo.

vidor

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He was very conservative and very out of touch with the game. I dont prescribe to this thought of that he was a great reader of the game either (as a pundit).

Giles was held up as some sort of Jesus figure to a lot of middle-aged to older Schoolboy coaches. His crazed conservatism would have filtered down to the coaches and to coaching. Wanting to see wingers turned to full-backs, full-backs turned to Centre-backs etc. If he got his hands on a young Ronaldo, he would have been playing as a hybrid full back/winger. Zlatan would have been turned to Dirk Kuyt.

He was also a very in-favour of kicking characters out of the game. Everybody needed to say nothing, do nothing and "concentrate on their football". He wanted drones that kept their mouths shut. It was amazing how uncomfortable David Beckham made him.

I really disliked him and that is before we get to his unproffessionalism of turning up to work and barely knowing who is playing.

Nailed it. I switched off from listening to that panel for the past few years but all of the above rings true. Speaking his mind is one thing, but good luck making sense of it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A lot of great players have done as bad if not worse things than Ronaldo.

Watching the 1982 world cup match against Italy it's very noticeable how Zico lost the head with a fair few of his team mates and even in an interview in more recent times had a cut at one of his team mates for missing chances in the game against Italy.

It's extremely petulant behaviour yet nobody would use it to claim Zico wasn't an all time great player.

deaddonkey15

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Watching the 1982 world cup match against Italy it's very noticeable how Zico lost the head with a fair few of his team mates and even in an interview in more recent times had a cut at one of his team mates for missing chances in the game against Italy.

It's extremely petulant behaviour yet nobody would use it to claim Zico wasn't an all time great player.

Yeah, I doubt you'd get any on that RTE panel claiming Roy Keane wasn't a great player despite his many and far more serious antics than Ronaldo.

Dempsey

Brian? wrote: »

Actually the only one I know of is Ronaldo, he despises Messi apparently.

I'd say he despises the fact that Messi has a team playing with him and he's playing with Perez's toys.

Seems the expectation on here is that a pundit should have you half way to your uefa badges by the end of the evening. :pac:

Giles read games and gave his opinion, alot of the matches got the tired cliches because they were shít matches and the players involved were making the same mistakes as those did back in the 1900's! He didnt need to say more!

PhlegmyMoses

To paraphrase the man himself, he was a good pundit, not a great one, Bill. My main problem with Giles has always been his use of intangibles and nonsense jargon to describe why a player is good. Honesty of effort, heart, strength of character - all immeasurable and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. He'd tell you that this is what separates the good from the great but seems to really struggle when a player doesn't fit in to these pre defined boxes but still manages to be the best on the park.

His old school views just don't really tally with reality anymore and he hasn't moved with the times. It's always good to change things up when they get stale and that particular panel has been stale for the past 5 or 10 years.

Kirby

He got lazy. That's the bottom line of why I disliked him as a pundit. Yes, he was old but he was still collecting a paycheck. Not a small one either. The least he could ****ing do is google who the players are 30 minutes before air but he couldn't even be arsed doing that. That's inexcusable.

fozz10

You can usually filter people who know very little about football by 2 things: 1: If they don't rate John Giles as a pundit & 2: If they do rate Richie Sadlier - Thats one gone now damn

Liam O

fozz10 wrote: »

You can usually filter people who know very little about football by 2 things: 1: If they don't rate John Giles as a pundit & 2: If they do rate Richie Sadlier - Thats one gone now damn

These people lack moral courage alright. Wanting a pundit to have heard of players in a game they are analysing is ridiculous from them.

deaddonkey15

fozz10 wrote: »

You can usually filter people who know very little about football by 2 things: 1: If they don't rate John Giles as a pundit & 2: If they do rate Richie Sadlier - Thats one gone now damn

I don't rate Giles as a pundit. Looks like I don't know anything about football.

jaykay74

He doesn't show enough honesty of effort as a pundit for me

adox

Dunno if I'm missing an in joke or something but several posts paraphrasing Giles with " he's a a good.....not a great...."

A Dunphy line.

adox

fozz10 wrote: »

You can usually filter people who know very little about football by 2 things: 1: If they don't rate John Giles as a pundit & 2: If they do rate Richie Sadlier - Thats one gone now damn

Condescending,narrow minded nonsense.

eagle eye

I still enjoy listening to John Giles whether it's on RTE as a panelist or on the phone-in to Newstalk.

I also enjoyed reading his articles in the Evening Herald many years ago.

I think the new pundits on RTE for the most part are pretty bland compared to Giles, Brady and Dunphy. They aren't always right but they are far more enjoyable to listen to.

dr.kenneth noisewater

I think Giles is still good with regards Ireland games but is hopeless on club football. He's always forgetting players names and is always harking back to how things were better in his day. It can be painful listening to him on OTB at times but some of the nonsense he comes out with and the lads never pull him up on anything he says. But I think he nails it more often than not with regards the national team though.

Pro. F

Kirby wrote: »

The least he could ****ing do is google who the players are 30 minutes before air but he couldn't even be arsed doing that. That's inexcusable.

But then he'd just be lying to you about what he knows and pretending to have insight when all he has is knowledge of the players' names and records. There are loads of pundits who do that and they are boring to listen to. Giles was just honest about it. Then, once the first half of was done, he'd have actually insightful things to say.

irishguitarlad

I guess its was giles time to go. Was good around 2006 when a lot of us audience didnt know much about the foreign leagues but now its so easy to stream games that we have all become like analysts in a way. At least dunphy watches Spanish league even though he can spout some awful **** about it at times. Saddler isnt a good replacement for giles though, the man is very annoying.

Pro. F

Lots of posters are saying that the modern game has passed Giles by, but it's all very vague. Could anybody tell me which of his well known thoughts on the game are now outdated?

Is it his idea that you need players who will work hard and be disciplined? Is it his idea that getting on the ball and passing it about is effective? Is it his belief that you need goal scorers and creativity? Or his belief that player confidence is important?

I'm failing to see which of these aspects of the game are now no longer important.

RedemptionZ

Pro. F wrote: »

Then, once the first half of was done, he'd have actually insightful things to say.

That's hardly a great endorsement! And it's not like he can decrypt everything about a team from one or two halves. I've never heard his analysis and thought to myself 'wow'. Though to be fair that's the case for nearly all of the pundits on RTE, BBC and the like, but at least the rest do some preparation beforehand.

He's been on RTEs payroll for a very long time now. He should be making apt preparations for his analysis. This might just include watching footage of the teams he's getting paid to talk about and maybe remembering who the key players are. Now I understand he's old and it's completely natural that his passion for the job has waned somewhat and the analysis has probably become more of a chore than anything but if that's the case he should hang up his boots or accept(or perhaps rather his fans should accept) that he is not above criticism for his complete lack of preparation.

I still think he's a legend, just am also happy with the decision for him to be dropped.

Coat22

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

I think Giles is still good with regards Ireland games but is hopeless on club football. He's always forgetting players names and is always harking back to how things were better in his day. It can be painful listening to him on OTB at times but some of the nonsense he comes out with and the lads never pull him up on anything he says. But I think he nails it more often than not with regards the national team though.

I used to turn off when his OTB spot came up on Thursdays - I thought it was cringeful - he talks to the lads like they're idiots and adds nothing whatsoever in terms of insight. Its sad but in a way I think OTB are taking the piss with their Giles segment.

Pro. F

RedemptionZ wrote: »

That's hardly a great endorsement! And it's not like he can decrypt everything about a team from one or two halves.

Not everything, but 45/90 minutes of football is more than enough time to see plenty to analyse.

Edit:

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I've never heard his analysis and thought to myself 'wow'.

I know I have. His explanations of the skills and mental attributes that are important in the game and how they affect play; his exact explanations (with replays) of how you can tell good technique from inferior (something I don't think I've ever seen another analyst do); his talk on the psychology of players, managers and teams - has all been revelatory to me over the years. And whenever I've talked about those things to other football fans (even recently), a lot of the time it has been new information to them.

Also, himself and Eamo's ideas on the problems with youth development in this part of the world were years ahead of anything being said on other channels.

Nowadays, I'm already familiar with most of his knowledge so it's not new to me, but that's not Giles' fault. Football is a simple game after all and there are still many people out there who the ideas are new to.

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Though to be fair that's the case for nearly all of the pundits on RTE, BBC and the like, but at least the rest do some preparation beforehand.

He's been on RTEs payroll for a very long time now. He should be making apt preparations for his analysis. This might just include watching footage of the teams he's getting paid to talk about and maybe remembering who the key players are. Now I understand he's old and it's completely natural that his passion for the job has waned somewhat and the analysis has probably become more of a chore than anything but if that's the case he should hang up his boots or accept(or perhaps rather his fans should accept) that he is not above criticism for his complete lack of preparation.

I still think he's a legend, just am also happy with the decision for him to be dropped.

But now you're holding him to a higher standard than what the majority of pundits actually do.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Pro. F wrote: »

Not everything, but 45/90 minutes of football is more than enough time to see plenty to analyse.

Edit:

I know I have. His explanations of the skills and mental attributes that are important in the game and how they affect play; his exact explanations (with replays) of how you can tell good technique from inferior (something I don't think I've ever seen another analyst do); his talk on the psychology of players, managers and teams - has all been revelatory to me over the years. And whenever I've talked about those things to other football fans (even recently), a lot of the time it has been new information to them.

Also, himself and Eamo's ideas on the problems with youth development in this part of the world were years ahead of anything being said on other channels.

Nowadays, I'm already familiar with most of his knowledge so it's not new to me, but that's not Giles' fault. Football is a simple game after all and there are still many people out there who the ideas are new to.



But now you're holding him to a higher standard than what the majority of pundits actually do.

No he's not.

Most pundits have good prior knowledge on the teams they are commenting on.

Billy86

ebbsy wrote: »

Terrible move. Having to listen to nonsense from the likes of Richard Sadlier pollutes my ears. People saying things for the sake of it.

Its like the time Clive Everton was dropped from the snooker and Ken Doherty was brought in.

Don't mean to be too harsh on Giles here (he's just long past his sell by date, as opposed to the clown he is associated with), but the fact is that Sadlier tends to know his stuff whereas Giles genuinely struggles to know who most of the guys on the pitch are. The 2014 World Cup was especially embarrassing in that situation, not even knowing the names of many of the players out there, even when the game was finished.

Seems a perfect gentleman, he's a very good speaker, and I'd have all the time in the world for him as a guest giving stories about 'way back when' etc. But the guy has been getting dated since the turn of the century, never mind in 2016.