Has Limerick always been deprived ?

dave 27

Well there still is those terraced housing, up by the top of Henry St, and all the streets out and parallel to o connell Avenue, in fact it's almost like a town in itself up that part

Cookiemunster

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

The thing I've noticed with Limerick that differs with other cities is how the city centre is practically encircled with social housing. Within Childers road you have Garryowen, Roxboro, Janesboro, Ballinacurra Weston etc & they all border the city centre. Then you have Thomond Gate, Kings Island - St Marys park at the King Johns castle end of the city centre.

With the other cities once you leave the immediate city centre there's old residential terraces and then further out you might see social housing that was built in the 40's, 50's, 60's etc - rarely would you see estates that border the city centre.

You do realize that the likes of Janesboro and Prospect are where they are is because when they were built in the 1930's they were on the outskirts of the city don't you? Limerick is small and places like Castletroy and Raheen didn't exist when these estates were originally built.
When I grew up in the 80's there wasn't a Childers Rd and there were basically only fields beyond where it is now (except for late 60s/early 70s Southill).

zulutango

It's the building outwards that has done greatest damage to Limerick. We're spreading a small population over a wide area and therefore we've a heap of derelict and vacant sites. We really should be looking at developing and renovating the old buildings and preferably in the centre before we do anything on greenfield sites. The other big problem with the way the city has developed is that we are, by and large, utterly car dependent, and that causes a huge amount of problems and challenges.

Cityslicker1

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You do realize that the likes of Janesboro and Prospect are where they are is because when they were built in the 1930's they were on the outskirts of the city don't you? Limerick is small and places like Castletroy and Raheen didn't exist when these estates were originally built.
When I grew up in the 80's there wasn't a Childers Rd and there were basically only fields beyond where it is now (except for late 60s/early 70s Southill).

Cork, Galway & Waterford are small too - but those city centres are not surrounded by social housing estates. In Limerick you have elegant Georgian Terraces like Mallow street, Pery square & even the Peoples park, then you literally walk to the top of Mallow street and there's housing estates like Hyde road, Ballinacurra Weston etc.

You just don't see that in the other three cities. Imagine walking to the end of South Mall in Cork or Eyre Square in Galway and seeing boarded & burnt out houses with piebald ponies tied to trees - you just don't see it. Limerick citys main attraction is King John's castle and again the whole area is social housing - I think even the grounds of the castle had council housing at one time. Even the Maldron hotel is surrounded by estates - can you imagine booking the Maldron hotel in Waterford with it encircled by rows and rows of social housing - just looks odd.

Cookiemunster

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Cork, Galway & Waterford are small too - but those city centres are not surrounded by social housing estates. In Limerick you have elegant Georgian Terraces like Mallow street, Pery square & even the Peoples park, then you literally walk to the top of Mallow street and there's housing estates like Hyde road, Ballinacurra Weston etc.

You just don't see that in the other three cities. Imagine walking to the end of South Mall in Cork or Eyre Square in Galway and seeing boarded & burnt out houses with piebald ponies tied to trees - you just don't see it. Limerick citys main attraction is King John's castle and again the whole area is social housing - I think even the grounds of the castle had council housing at one time. Even the Maldron hotel is surrounded by estates - can you imagine booking the Maldron hotel in Waterford with it encircled by rows and rows of social housing - just looks odd.

Again. These estates were built in the 1930s. There was no such thing as 'social housing' back then. Most of the houses in places like Janesboro and Hyde Road were and are owned by their residents.
My grandparents lived in Rathbane for 50 years. They owned their house. These old estates weren't built as 'social housing'. Southill and Moyross which were built in the late 60s/early 70s were the first social housing projects built in Limerick.

While I agree that the Hyde Rd is in a state that's something that's occured in the last 20 years. It has nothing to do with the houses being put where they are 80 years ago.
And Rathbane/Janesboro/Southill were there decades before the Maldron. It didn't stop the developers putting it where it is and it doesn't seem to affect it's business.

Cityslicker1

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Again. These estates were built in the 1930s. There was no such thing as 'social housing' back then. Most of the houses in places like Janesboro and Hyde Road were and are owned by their residents.
My grandparents lived in Rathbane for 50 years. They owned their house. These old estates weren't built as 'social housing'. Southill and Moyross which were built in the late 60s/early 70s were the first social housing projects built in Limerick.

While I agree that the Hyde Rd is in a state that's something that's occured in the last 20 years. It has nothing to do with the houses being put where they are 80 years ago.
And Rathbane/Janesboro/Southill were there decades before the Maldron. It didn't stop the developers putting it where it is and it doesn't seem to affect it's business.

Regardless of when they were built or how they were built - there isn't this type of housing estates surrounding the city centre's of Galway, Cork & Waterford. A visitor gets off the train in Limerick and if they look left the first view they see is a long row of boarded up houses and council estates. It gives anyone a bad first impression.

zulutango

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Regardless of when they were built or how they were built - there isn't this type of housing estates surrounding the city centre's of Galway, Cork & Waterford. A visitor gets off the train in Limerick and if they look left the first view they see is a long row of boarded up houses and council estates. It gives anyone a bad first impression.

Yep, there's no getting away from that. The sad thing is that the improvement efforts, when they do eventually happen, are mediocre at best.

Reputable Rog

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Cork, Galway & Waterford are small too - but those city centres are not surrounded by social housing estates. In Limerick you have elegant Georgian Terraces like Mallow street, Pery square & even the Peoples park, then you literally walk to the top of Mallow street and there's housing estates like Hyde road, Ballinacurra Weston etc.

You just don't see that in the other three cities. Imagine walking to the end of South Mall in Cork or Eyre Square in Galway and seeing boarded & burnt out houses with piebald ponies tied to trees - you just don't see it. Limerick citys main attraction is King John's castle and again the whole area is social housing - I think even the grounds of the castle had council housing at one time. Even the Maldron hotel is surrounded by estates - can you imagine booking the Maldron hotel in Waterford with it encircled by rows and rows of social housing - just looks odd.

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Cork, Galway & Waterford are small too - but those city centres are not surrounded by social housing estates. In Limerick you have elegant Georgian Terraces like Mallow street, Pery square & even the Peoples park, then you literally walk to the top of Mallow street and there's housing estates like Hyde road, Ballinacurra Weston etc.

You just don't see that in the other three cities. Imagine walking to the end of South Mall in Cork or Eyre Square in Galway and seeing boarded & burnt out houses with piebald ponies tied to trees - you just don't see it. Limerick citys main attraction is King John's castle and again the whole area is social housing - I think even the grounds of the castle had council housing at one time. Even the Maldron hotel is surrounded by estates - can you imagine booking the Maldron hotel in Waterford with it encircled by rows and rows of social housing - just looks odd.

You have a rather appalling attitude, do you think social housing should be located exclusively in outer suburbs.
With regard to Cork walk across the bridge from South Mall and your into the Barrack Street/Bandon Road/Pouladuff area which has its own problems and are cheek by jowl with UCC, St Finbarres and Hayfield Manor.
All cities have social housing areas close to tourist areas, I really fail to see your point.

Cityslicker1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

You have a rather appalling attitude, do you think social housing should be located exclusively in outer suburbs.
With regard to Cork walk across the bridge from South Mall and your into the Barrack Street/Bandon Road/Pouladuff area which has its own problems and are cheek by jowl with UCC, St Finbarres and Hayfield Manor.
All cities have social housing areas close to tourist areas, I really fail to see your point.

I think it's being realistic - I have no issue with social housing and understand that every city does have an element but in Limerick many of these areas have very high profile criminals at the edge of the city centre. These areas are proven to have high crime & anti social behaviour so yes I would prefer if Limerick city centre wasn't surrounded by estates & I'm sure the majority would agree.

What's wrong with Barrack street in Cork & how can you compare it to the area right of the train station in Limerick. Barrack street is a street - No piebalds, sulkies, boarded up houses etc that looks quaint, maintained & clean - there's no comparison.

iguana

zulutango wrote: »

Yep, there's no getting away from that. The sad thing is that the improvement efforts, when they do eventually happen, are mediocre at best.

That's because the improvement efforts focus on the wrong things. There was very little ever wrong with the houses and the estates themselves. I was among the first residents in Craevel Park, Moyross when it was built. The house was lovely, we had decent front and back gardens, lots of green areas to play in. We were a little far from the city centre to walk in and out easily (though we did on occasion) but the bus service was reasonably reliable. There were local shops in the estates, my dad's rugby club, with clubhouse that hosted social functions, was at the back of our house. Initially there was no school and we were bussed to St Mary's in a specially hired bus and in 1985 Corpus Christi opened. There was a church, which is an important social meeting point for some people. And lots of social events for adults were held in the school at night, like dance/aerobics classes. We had residents social events, annual neighbourhood sports days, best garden competitions, etc. I only lived there for slightly over 4 years but it was in all honestly idyllic.

The problems that occur/occurred in estates like Moyross aren't caused by poor houses and bad planning. I mean look at Hyde Road. It's in the city, so there is no lack of amenities. The main road is wide and tree lined with grass areas on either side of the road, and smaller roads between the houses and the green areas. Every few blocks there are larger green areas. It should be lovely, yet it's ugly and beset by social problems. And those problems are caused by bad policies and some of the residents. First and foremost, able-bodied tenants in social housing should be responsible for all but structural maintenance of their homes. In return for low rent and near absolute security of tenure, it should be a condition of the tenancy that the house is nicely maintained. Outside paintwork should be kept reasonably up to date, gardens reasonably tidy. Houses don't need to be perfect but decent and clean. Instead the corporation officially takes responsibility for this and either doesn't do it/does it years past when it was needed. Many tenants don't bother maintaining their houses as officially the corporation should be doing it but in reality don't. It leads to dwindling pride in one's home, which leads to houses falling toward dereliction, which leads to complete lack of pride in one's neighbourhood.

What happens then, is that the tenants who are most likely to take pride in their homes, make a huge effort to get out of the area. Using the low rents as an opportunity to save a deposit and move to a nicer area. While those who can't afford to do that or who tenant purchased their corporation house are left in an estate that is getting worse due to an overall lack of pride from their neighbours. Some estates manage okay, largely due to high rates of tenant purchase. Garryowen for example, has a high rate of privately owned houses and while not without some issues, is full of beautifully maintained houses and gardens, clearly lived in by people who take pride in their home.

So I think that is the answer to the problems in failing corporation estates. Make people responsible for their homes and encourage them to be proud of them. Knocking perfectly good houses and shifting people into other neighbourhoods where their neighbours may be resentful or even fearful of their presence, will never solve anything. But making people proud of where they live and reforming communities, while having no tolerance for ongoing anti-social behaviour will.

zulutango

Couldn't agree more with that!!

I was referring to the mediocre plans to upgrade Colbert Station (currently underway), Davis Street and Parnell Street though. As a city we should be striving for a far higher calibre of public realm improvement.

Cookiemunster

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

What's wrong with Barrack street in Cork & how can you compare it to the area right of the train station in Limerick. Barrack street is a street - No piebalds, sulkies, boarded up houses etc that looks quaint, maintained & clean - there's no comparison.

Would you please point out where you've seen all of this in Garryowen, Roxboro or Janesboro? Weston/Hyde Rd. I'll give you. And as it's the closest estate to the city center it looks very bad, but the other areas listed are nothing like Weston/Hyde Rd.

zulutango

The area around the Milk Market, i.e. Watergate flats, Broad Street, Sean Hueston Place, John's Gate, etc. is fairly dire, to be fair.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

The area around the Milk Market, i.e. Watergate flats, Broad Street, Sean Hueston Place, John's Gate, etc. is fairly dire, to be fair.

I agree. My point wasn't that these run down areas don't exist, but that they're not all full of horses and sulkies, boarded up houses and drug lords.

goochy

I live in cork and have a problem with Barrack street . it's near colleges and has great potential to be a residential street only - convert empty shops to houses.
however barrack street stands out as there is not that many streets that rundown in cork.
graffiti has become a big problem in inner city though . Very unsightly.

Cityslicker1

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Would you please point out where you've seen all of this in Garryowen, Roxboro or Janesboro? Weston/Hyde Rd. I'll give you. And as it's the closest estate to the city center it looks very bad, but the other areas listed are nothing like Weston/Hyde Rd.

I don't think there's a day where I'm not stuck behind a sulkie - Limerick is the only place where I've actually seen signs on the roads for no sulkies - there's even no sulkie signs on the avenue down to UL. Roxboro, Janesboro, Weston - Is that practically the same area - they run into each other and no real major differences between them. I'm sure all locals know of each other.

stefanovich

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

I don't think there's a day where I'm not stuck behind a sulkie - Limerick is the only place where I've actually seen signs on the roads for no sulkies - there's even no sulkie signs on the avenue down to UL. Roxboro, Janesboro, Weston - Is that practically the same area - they run into each other and no real major differences between them. I'm sure all locals know of each other.

I like seeing the lads out on sulkies. What's the big deal? You in a rush or something? I think it adds character to the place.

moby2101

stefanovich wrote: »

I like seeing the lads out on sulkies. What's the big deal? You in a rush or something? I think it adds character to the place.

You like the sulkies?? Are you for real ? These f***wits treat animals like commodities and practically run them into the ground, they are totally illegal, no insurance to be on a public roadway and cause mayhem when they decide to take the poor animals out ... Ah sure yore right tis a lovely sight

Cookiemunster

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

I don't think there's a day where I'm not stuck behind a sulkie - Limerick is the only place where I've actually seen signs on the roads for no sulkies - there's even no sulkie signs on the avenue down to UL. Roxboro, Janesboro, Weston - Is that practically the same area - they run into each other and no real major differences between them. I'm sure all locals know of each other.

So you've seen them on the road and you have no idea where the actually came from? There is no one living in Roxboro or Janesboro with horses and sulkies. There are however two halting sites in the area. One across from the Maldron and one off the Old Cork Road. This is were the sulkies are from. Not the estates.

And trust me, Weston does not run into Janesboro and Roxboro. They are two completely different areas and the locals don't all know of each other.

Poxyshamrock

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And trust me, Weston does not run into Janesboro and Roxboro. They are two completely different areas and the locals don't all know of each other.

Weston is literally "on the other side of the tracks". :pac:

stefanovich

moby2101 wrote: »

You like the sulkies?? Are you for real ? These f***wits treat animals like commodities and practically run them into the ground, they are totally illegal, no insurance to be on a public roadway and cause mayhem when they decide to take the poor animals out ... Ah sure yore right tis a lovely sight

Some of them treat the animals very well. I don't agree with animal cruelty of course. I thought horses have automatic right of way in this country but I could be wrong.

goochy

could limerick be Irelands Detroit but on a lesser scale ?

jbkenn

goochy wrote: »

could limerick be Irelands Detroit but on a lesser scale ?

Emphatically NO, there is no comparison between Limerick and Detroit.

zulutango

goochy wrote: »

could limerick be Irelands Detroit but on a lesser scale ?

That's a silly question, to be fair.

Limerick is actually a fairly thriving city but is just very poorly managed.

Red King

The Limerick - Detroit comparison (how did that ever become a thing) is waaay off the mark.

The worst parts of Detroit, of which there are many, more closely resemble a city in Syria than anything else these days. I'm not even joking. Have a look at some of these images of Detroit and thank your lucky stars that you live in Limerick.







Just google Detroit urban decay or look at some of the videos on youtube. It is absolutely horrific, mindblowing in fact that such a city exists in America.

daniels.ducks

One thing that no one has metioned yet is the people. Limerick natives are some of the nicest, down to earth, proud people that you'll ever meet. Massive sporting city, some great pubs and places to eat out, cheap rent, three great colleges, I could go on. Yes, some parts are not that niceaesthetically but it's a place I felt comfortable and happy to say I lived there for 4 years. Hopefully will get the chance to again.

goochy

OP here. Was in limerick today . First time in 6 mths . City was quiet but looked well. Wasn't a huge amount of empty shops. Surprised at how few tourists and people in pubs there were.

However outskirts were terrible .estate in Castletroy opp. Cinema and supervalu and other parts of castletroy seem to be full of unkept rented houses ? It used to be a high end area?

Was in moyross.had been before and it was bad enough but st Mary's estate opp. King johns castle was like a war zone ! I lived in dublin up until the early 90s and I was actually scared driving through the estate.
The road/ estate between punches cross and train station was also shocking - what's that area called ?
Limericks halting sites being in high profile locations is a big blight on the environment.

Why is there x3 topaz stations on the dock road or was I seeing things ?

One thing I noticed is there only the well off and very poor live around the city and suburbs . There's very few middle of the road places.
.
There's also very few settled and well maintained council areas.

There's no other place in Ireland with council estates like limerick

Kids growing up and also the Celtic tiger bringing jobs to even the lower classes mean even dublins council estates have to better

I think the people living in these parts of limerick must be settled travellers? As they are big into horses and only travellors could live in such squalor.

It's not the government / council's fault. It's a lifestyle choice.

celligraphy

goochy wrote:

Was in moyross.had been before and it was bad enough but st Mary's estate opp. King johns castle was like a war zone ! I lived in dublin up until the early 90s and I was actually scared driving through the estate. The road/ estate between punches cross and train station was also shocking - what's that area called ? Limericks halting sites being in high profile locations is a big blight on the environment.

That's bit of a lie now to be honest ,it was hardly a war zone ...

johnnyryan89

celligraphy wrote: »

That's bit of a lie now to be honest ,it was hardly a war zone ...

Doubt he was even there, seems he gets all his info from reading Paul William's column in the paper and watcing Donal McIntyre's ground breaking special on Limerick.

moleyv

I'd love to hear his description of Mogadishu.