Will you upgrade to a PlayStation 4.5 if it's released?

TerrorFirmer

I would imagine framerate would be far better which would be a major plus at 1080p. Look at how sluggish games like Fallout 4 are on both consoles.

Neo and Scorpio will display at 4K but not a chance games will natively run in 4K. You'd need an absolute juggernaut of a console to do that - something in the region of a €1k PC or more (current consoles are comparable to about a €400 Gaming PC build)

qrx

I think Microsoft have moved beyond the Xbox Vs PS sales debate. I think they're comfortable in their second place and are now moving onto bigger things, namely services. They want you to use their ecosystem and the Scorpio is needed in order to offer people a console for the next generation. It's coming next year because, basically, that is when 4K gaming on an affordable (and I mean affordable at the higher end) console is realistically possible. It's going to be expensive, so if you can't afford it you'll get the exact same experience on an Xbox One or an Xbox One S minus the 4K and VR. You'll also have the option to play Xbox Anywhere games on your own PC rig. It's about investing in their ecosystem and staying with them long term and more importantly continuing to engage in the ecosystem. All your games come with you no matter what hardware rig you progress to. I don't think any of this has anything to do with Sony. If anything, it's more to do with Steam.

As Phil Spencer said himself, Console sales numbers mean nothing when that console is sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

Penn

qrx wrote: »

I think Microsoft have moved beyond the Xbox Vs PS sales debate. I think they're comfortable in their second place and are now moving onto bigger things, namely services. They want you to use their ecosystem and the Scorpio is needed in order to offer people a console for the next generation. It's coming next year because, basically, that is when 4K gaming on an affordable (and I mean affordable at the higher end) console is realistically possible. It's going to be expensive, so if you can't afford it you'll get the exact same experience on an Xbox One or an Xbox One S minus the 4K and VR. You'll also have the option to play Xbox Anywhere games on your own PC rig. It's about investing in their ecosystem and staying with them long term and more importantly continuing to engage in the ecosystem. All your games come with you no matter what hardware rig you progress to. I don't think any of this has anything to do with Sony. If anything, it's more to do with Steam.

As Phil Spencer said himself, Console sales numbers mean nothing when that console is sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

The trouble is though, they've said all such games will be playable on the existing/launch Xbox One. No one gets left behind, and if you can play a game on the Scorpio, you can play it in another room with your existing XB1. Graphics may get better if you're playing on the Scorpio, but in terms of other game features (larger maps, more NPCs etc) they'll still be limited by the launch XB1.

Which means that's fine for the next few years, but in another 3-4 years creating an XB1 'play anywhere ecosystem' will be a hindrance and they'll end up having to abandon it anyway and move on to an 'Xbox Two ecosystem', which largely defeats the whole purpose. PCs can be upgraded with new parts, but unless they do the same with their consoles, they will always have to create a new ecosystem, which is basically what generations of consoles are anyway.

qrx

Penn wrote: »

The trouble is though, they've said all such games will be playable on the existing/launch Xbox One. No one gets left behind, and if you can play a game on the Scorpio, you can play it in another room with your existing XB1. Graphics may get better if you're playing on the Scorpio, but in terms of other game features (larger maps, more NPCs etc) they'll still be limited by the launch XB1.

Which means that's fine for the next few years, but in another 3-4 years creating an XB1 'play anywhere ecosystem' will be a hindrance and they'll end up having to abandon it anyway and move on to an 'Xbox Two ecosystem', which largely defeats the whole purpose. PCs can be upgraded with new parts, but unless they do the same with their consoles, they will always have to create a new ecosystem, which is basically what generations of consoles are anyway.

I took it they meant you won't get left behind in this generation (that is the Xbox one, one s and Scorpio generation). Obviously there will come a time when they stop making games for the original Xbox One, but that will come post Scorpio. But even then, you'll still be able to play all your Xbox One games. It's the same with PC games, except as this is a console the games developers will have specific hardware to target, of varying performance.

And obviously you won't be able to play VR games on the Xbox One. But it remains to be seen if VR will become main stream. Realistically if it does it will be long past the Scorpios life span.

Oafley Jones

shuffles03 wrote: »

Haven't Sony sent detailed Neo specs to all developers? If so, I would imagine that means the specs are locked down/too far into development to change now. I think it could be a case where MS have made a bold move to try and out jump Sony with the refresh. I may be wrong but I've read that when everything is locked down (as in the case with Sony), a complete spec change would not be possible/horrifically expensive. If that turns out to be the case maybe Sony can overclock the internals in the same way MS did when the One launched.

I'd say they're beyond a reference design now and they're locked into the production cycle. I imagine that if they're targeting to launch by late November they'll need to start production next month at the very latest. That or have an absolutely tiny amount of stock.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

The trouble is though, they've said all such games will be playable on the existing/launch Xbox One. No one gets left behind, and if you can play a game on the Scorpio, you can play it in another room with your existing XB1. Graphics may get better if you're playing on the Scorpio, but in terms of other game features (larger maps, more NPCs etc) they'll still be limited by the launch XB1.

Which means that's fine for the next few years, but in another 3-4 years creating an XB1 'play anywhere ecosystem' will be a hindrance and they'll end up having to abandon it anyway and move on to an 'Xbox Two ecosystem', which largely defeats the whole purpose. PCs can be upgraded with new parts, but unless they do the same with their consoles, they will always have to create a new ecosystem, which is basically what generations of consoles are anyway.

In a few years they'll revise the entry level Xbox One and give it more juice. That's how Microsoft is going to work it's new 'no generations' business model. Exactly like smartphones and tablets where they revise the model but the OS stays the same.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

In a few years they'll revise the entry level Xbox One and give it more juice. That's how Microsoft is going to work it's new 'no generations' business model. Exactly like smartphones and tablets where they revise the model but the OS stays the same.

:rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100066363&postcount=1416

Pickpocket

Does 60fps have an effect on the gameplay at all? Does that extra smoothness mean more accurate shooting, jumping, etc?

If so then maybe I'd like to see it become standard, but right now I don't like it. It reminds me of The Hobbit and Eastenders. A horrible, silky-smooth soap opera effect.

I saw some clips of Dark Souls 3 running at 60fps and it looked terrible to my eyes. Perhaps I'm an old dinosaur but I'll miss the lower, more filmic, frame-rates if we leave them behind completely.

Captain Chaos

Pickpocket wrote: »

Does 60fps have an effect on the gameplay at all? Does that extra smoothness mean more accurate shooting, jumping, etc?
.

Play The Last of Us on PS3 and then on PS4, aiming is much easier at 60fps than 30fps especially when head shots mean so much.

Same with GTA5, the difference between the PS3 and 4 versions are big and makes the experience so much better with the higher frame rates and larger draw distances.

Pickpocket

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Play The Last of Us on PS3 and then on PS4, aiming is much easier at 60fps than 30fps especially when head shots mean so much.

Same with GTA5, the difference between the PS3 and 4 versions are big and makes the experience so much better with the higher frame rates and larger draw distances.

Ah I see. If it's a step forward then I'm all for it. You can't stop progress. I just wish that the improved performance could be achieved without that visual sheen. I genuinely don't like the look of it.

I guess I'm just so used to watching 24fps films. I think The Hobbit was 48fps and it looked desperate, like a live broadcast of Children in Need. I can't imagine what a 60fps film would look like.

Anyway there's no point in comparing films and games in that regard.

I guess I'll just have to get used it, although as a console gamer it's not of immediate concern.

Myrddin

Pickpocket wrote: »

Does 60fps have an effect on the gameplay at all? Does that extra smoothness mean more accurate shooting, jumping, etc?

If so then maybe I'd like to see it become standard, but right now I don't like it. It reminds me of The Hobbit and Eastenders. A horrible, silky-smooth soap opera effect.

I saw some clips of Dark Souls 3 running at 60fps and it looked terrible to my eyes. Perhaps I'm an old dinosaur but I'll miss the lower, more filmic, frame-rates if we leave them behind completely.

With all due respect, (indeed each to their own), but nothing, absolutely nothing in the year 2016 should be playing at sub-60fps. It's why the current generation has been so poor imo, they're pushing up the resolution at the cost of frame rate, and it shows, badly.

60fps should be the bare minimum for consoles by now. Indeed, someone mentioned GTA V & The Last if Us as examples of the benefits...these are great examples as we can directly compare both to their 30fps siblings. I find games infinitely more enjoyable when they've a silky smooth framerate, than I do when they're choppy & jumpy. For all the criticism Nintendo get, they do tend to push 60fps.

Regards videos, I kinda see that differently to games...but here's an example on YT (there are many). Make sure to play it full screen. I remember it being a bit jarring when I first started seeing them, but I'm very used to them now & they look way more 'life like', than 30fps. I'm not sure I'd want that for films etc, but for regular videos, I think they look great

Pickpocket

Myrddin wrote: »

I find games infinitely more enjoyable when they've a silky smooth framerate, than I do when they're choppy & jumpy. For all the criticism Nintendo get, they do tend to push 60fps.

Aesthetically, I'd prefer a game with a rock solid (not a choppy/jumpy) 30fps over one that's 60fps. However, so many console game aren't even locked in at 30fps so clearly there's a lot of work to be done there. Whatever about 60fps, I do be genuinely amazed when a new game can't cope with 30fps.

Myrddin wrote: »

Regards videos, I kinda see that differently to games...but here's an example on YT (there are many). Make sure to play it full screen. I remember it being a bit jarring when I first started seeing them, but I'm very used to them now & they look way more 'life like', than 30fps. I'm not sure I'd want that for films etc, but for regular videos, I think they look great

I don't. It looks 'live' and unpolished, despite its smoothness.

In fairness, I have to back track a bit here. I've only ever played The Last of Us on PS4 and while I can't say the 60fps stood out for me, I still can't imagine playing it in any other way.

Myrddin

Pickpocket wrote: »

rock solid 30fps

I'd consider that the bare limits of playability on modern machines. It's a damning indictment of the current gen that this has become the accepted standard.

I don't. It looks 'live' and unpolished, despite its smoothness.

Interesting, I've become quite used to it & consider it very polished now. It was a bit jarring the first few times though, it looked slightly sped up or something...but I don't see that any longer. Again though, I consider video a bit different to games. For games, the "30fps is more cinematic" argument holds no weight at all, it's there purely because they're not powerful enough to give anything higher...not for effect.

Pickpocket

In fact, I'm gonna have to back-track completely. I've just looked up a list of 60fps PS4 and there's plenty of game there that I loved the look of without registering the fact that they were 60fps.

The Witness.
Flower.
Journey.
Wolfenstein: The New Order
Pro Evo 2016
Metro Redux

That's food for thought!

Grayditch

I'll get one. I trust Sony again.

Myrddin

Pickpocket wrote: »

In fact, I'm gonna have to back-track completely. I've just looked up a list of 60fps PS4 and there's plenty of game there that I loved the look of without registering the fact that they were 60fps.

The Witness.
Flower.
Journey.
Wolfenstein: The New Order
Pro Evo 2016
Metro Redux

That's food for thought!

Indeed. As I said, it can take a 'bedding in' period for your eyes/brain to get used to it (hell, we've been looking at sub 30fps for decades). Once you do though, anything less becomes quickly unacceptable. The PC guys would laugh at us here lauding 60fps, those guys are pushing significantly more than that even.

Pickpocket

Myrddin wrote: »

I'd consider that the bare limits of playability on modern machines. It's a damning indictment of the current gen that this has become the accepted standard.



Interesting, I've become quite used to it & consider it very polished now. It was a bit jarring the first few times though, it looked slightly sped up or something...but I don't see that any longer. Again though, I consider video a bit different to games. For games, the "30fps is more cinematic" argument holds no weight at all, it's there purely because they're not powerful enough to give anything higher...not for effect.

I'm gonna tread carefully here in light of the fact that I seem to be doing a 180 degree turn on this issue, but I would still disagree with you here, up to a point.

I really dislike the look of both Tomb Raider (PS4) and The Nathan Drake Collection, particularly Uncharted 2. The latter is one of my favourite games of all time. I feel that it's the high watermark of the 'videogame as blockbuster', at which so many others have tried and failed. I disliked the look of that remaster so much that I couldn't play it. It's a very specific example, but that game was more cinematic at a lower frame-rate and the 60fps killed it for me.

o1s1n

Myrddin wrote: »

Regards videos, I kinda see that differently to games...but here's an example on YT (there are many). Make sure to play it full screen. I remember it being a bit jarring when I first started seeing them, but I'm very used to them now & they look way more 'life like', than 30fps. I'm not sure I'd want that for films etc, but for regular videos, I think they look great

The main thing I took from that video is that I need to dig out SOTN and play through it again :pac:

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

The main thing I took from that video is that I need to dig out SOTN and play through it again :pac:

Lol, I only looked it up for an example but ended up watching it again Derek really is fantasticly watchable.

@Pickpoket, I totally get what you're saying re Uncharted 2...I wonder though, is that only because you're so used to it at looking/playing the way it is, that anything different takes away from it for you? I bet the folks used to watching black & white tv gave out about the new fangled colour tv sets (I jest I jest )

Pickpocket

Myrddin wrote: »

I totally get what you're saying re Uncharted 2...I wonder though, is that only because you're so used to it at looking/playing the way it is, that anything different takes away from it for you?

Very possible. I suspect my reservations about Dark Souls 3 in 60fps stem from that as well, having just beaten the game on PS4.

Jesus... I think this is the first time I've changed my opinion on Boards without have to be humiliated in After Hours.

Myrddin

Pickpocket wrote: »

Jesus... I think this is the first time I've changed my opinion on Boards without have to be humiliated in After Hours.

Welcome to the Games category....where the sun shines....in 60fps

readyletsgo

I see Microsoft dropping the Xbox console after the Scorpio and focusing Xbox software on PC in the future, no more Xbox console after that.

I can kinda see the same for Sony now too, have a playstation eco system on PC for all exclusives, but I would think Sony will stick with a ps5 for a few years after that too as the console market is a goldmine. So when that starts to plummet they will drop the hardware.

Just a thought.

Myrddin

readyletsgo wrote: »

I see Microsoft dropping the Xbox console after the Scorpio and focusing Xbox software on PC in the future, no more Xbox console after that.

I can kinda see the same for Sony now too, have a playstation eco system on PC for all exclusives, but I would think Sony will stick with a ps5 for a few years after that too as the console market is a goldmine. So when that starts to plummet they will drop the hardware.

Just a thought.

I seriously doubt it, the console market is a lucrative one. What I could see though, is the next iteration of Xbox (post-Scorpio) running essentially Windows 10 (or whatever is current by then)...meaning that Xbox & PC will essentially be the same platform, just with different hardware.

It's more complicated for Sony though, as they can't just ship with their rival's OS on their post-Neo consoles. Perhaps they won't need to though, if they go another route (perhaps game streaming will be viable by the the post-Neo era), they can have the market all to themselves.

Interesting times ahead though.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

:rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100066363&postcount=1416

You need to read your own post again. You've even bolded it lol.

They won't adapt a smartphone approach every year but every few years which is exactly what I've been saying for a week now.

Upgraded consoles not adapting a smartphone style approach (new version every year), maybe every 4-5 years and based on whats deemed as a new inflection point of technology (for instance, 4K and VR)

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

In a few years they'll revise the entry level Xbox One and give it more juice.That's how Microsoft is going to work it's new 'no generations' business model. Exactly like smartphones and tablets where they revise the model but the OS stays the same.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

You need to read your own post again. You've even bolded it lol.

They won't adapt a smartphone approach every year but every few years which is exactly what I've been saying for a week now.

And what I've been saying is what Phil Spencer himself has been saying:

One thing though that we should make sure everyone understands, every game that comes out in the Xbox One family will run on the original Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Scorpio, so we had some questions if there are going to be Scorpio exclusive games. No, the line of games you get to play is the same, regardless of [one you own].

Which, again, means games will have to be able to run on the original Xbox One. They haven't tried to skip past those questions, or given PR speak to dance around the issue, he has flat out said multiple times that games will be playable on the original Xbox One, that no one gets left behind, and that if for example you bought a Scorpio and put your original XB1 in another room, the game would still be playable on your original XB1.

You can "Oh well he means this..." and "What he's actually doing is this..." all you like. Doesn't change the fact that you're basing your comments on nothing, and I'm going by what Phil Spencer himself has willfully and purposefully said is a core tenement to the purpose of the Scorpio and Xbox One 'play-anywhere' system several times in several different interviews.

Digital Solitude

Myrddin wrote: »

I seriously doubt it, the console market is a lucrative one. What I could see though, is the next iteration of Xbox (post-Scorpio) running essentially Windows 10 (or whatever is current by then)...meaning that Xbox & PC will essentially be the same platform, just with different hardware.

It's more complicated for Sony though, as they can't just ship with their rival's OS on their post-Neo consoles. Perhaps they won't need to though, if they go another route (perhaps game streaming will be viable by the the post-Neo era), they can have the market all to themselves.

Interesting times ahead though.

Nothing stopping Sony running a bastardised Ubuntu or similar, they can have the PC and console markets, and if Linux is a viable gaming OS a lot of people will jump ship

F1ngers

Failsafe 00 and Penn: Take your discussion back to the other thread please - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057598706.

FAILSAFE 00

It must be a bitter pill to swallow having bought the original PS4 with Sony talking up how powerful the console was from announcement to as far as post launch. Every moment they got they were saying how amazingly powerful the PS4 was.

For a new Sony customer I think the Neo will be well worth purchasing but for someone with a PS4 already I think its a shame they have to folk out again after all the talk from Sony.

jonerkinsella

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It must be a bitter pill to swallow having bought the original PS4 with Sony talking up how powerful the console was from announcement to as far as post launch. Every moment they got they were saying how amazingly powerful the PS4 was.

For a new Sony customer I think the Neo will be well worth purchasing but for someone with a PS4 already I think its a shame they have to folk out again after all the talk from Sony.

When I bought mine on launch day ( nearly 3 years ago ) it was and STILL IS the fastest console around today.

Why are there so many moaners that just moan for the sake of it on Boards. All your all doing is destroying threads for everyone else.

I think that every forum section should have a bitching thread in every section where the whingers can just get it all out :rolleyes:

I am going to buy a 4.5 because Sony have beaten Microsoft to a pulp this time round and I can't see anything changing on the horizon...and I have a killer PC as well just in case anyone tries to throw that in.

Otacon

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It must be a bitter pill to swallow having bought the original PS4 with Sony talking up how powerful the console was from announcement to as far as post launch. Every moment they got they were saying how amazingly powerful the PS4 was.

For a new Sony customer I think the Neo will be well worth purchasing but for someone with a PS4 already I think its a shame they have to folk out again after all the talk from Sony.

Why do existing PS4 owners 'have to' fork out again? The leaked documentation to developers specify that all PS4 software will be compatible across both versions of the system. The only new feature being added is 4K media playback so it's the same as the Xbox One S in that regard.