Which 1916 rebel site would you fight in?

KingBrian2

If you were serving as a Volunteer in the 1916 rising which Rebel location would you want to be stationed in?

Del.Monte

This is supposed to be the History Forum not AH, but if you must - the College of Surgeons would have been a good choice as there was plenty of good restaurants close by. The Stephen's Green Club or the Royal Irish Automobile Club would have been delighted to welcome any friend of Countess Markievicz.

KingBrian2

Del.Monte wrote: »

This is supposed to be the History Forum not AH, but if you must - the College of Surgeons would have been a good choice as there was plenty of good restaurants close by. The Stephen's Green Club or the Royal Irish Automobile Club would have been delighted to welcome any friend of Countess Markievicz.

Where should this be put?

Mr.Nice Guy

I think your best chance of survival would be at Jacob's Biscuit Factory commanded by Thomas MacDonagh, since it saw the least fighting.

ted1

Stephens green and get them to relies there is no way to hold it. Then I'd take the castle instead

endacl

Not the GPO anyway. There wouldn't have been room to swing a cat, what with everybody's great-grandad being there. I'll go for Boland's too. But I'll have left late and stepped into Mulligan's of Poolbeg St on the way. Sure, it would've all been over by the time I got there...

bobbyss

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you were serving as a Volunteer in the 1916 rising which Rebel location would you want to be stationed in?

An interesting question.

I actually don't know the lay out of most of the locations but didn't Collins say that the GPO was a bad location? Couldn't it have been surrounded?

I don't know what happened exactly in Stephen's Green, did they just go into the Green itself and dig trenches? I am most probably wrong in that as I could not see the sense of it. But I think they were sniped at from the buildings around it if they had done so.

I don't even know where the College of Surgeons is or why they would have wanted to take it.

paul71

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you were serving as a Volunteer in the 1916 rising which Rebel location would you want to be stationed in?

Ashbourne, only place which had any level of success and pointed the way to the successful tactics used in the later war of independence.

KingBrian2

bobbyss wrote: »

An interesting question.

I actually don't know the lay out of most of the locations but didn't Collins say that the GPO was a bad location? Couldn't it have been surrounded?

I don't know what happened exactly in Stephen's Green, did they just go into the Green itself and dig trenches? I am most probably wrong in that as I could not see the sense of it. But I think they were sniped at from the buildings around it if they had done so.

I don't even know where the College of Surgeons is or why they would have wanted to take it.

They came under heavy fire after the Brits took the Shelbourne and they abandoned the Square which had been completely barricaded.

The location I would pick would be Dublin Castle. A frontal attack on HQ. It ended up being a rooftop sniper attack against insurmountable British forces.

Arkady

The Shelbourne, so I could pick off as many terrorists with the .303 in and around the green as possible.

davycc

paul71 wrote: »

Ashbourne, only place which had any level of success and pointed the way to the successful tactics used in the later war of independence.

+1 Tomas Ashes men ended up with more prisoners and captured more weapons than they could carry. id take that flying column option myself

paul71

davycc wrote: »

+1 Tomas Ashes men ended up with more prisoners and captured more weapons than they could carry. id take that flying column option myself

Ashbourne was the accidental birthplace of the flying column. It showed that a dozen men with bicycles and shotguns could exceed anything 2,000 men with muasers could acheive.

davycc

Arkady wrote: »

The Shelbourne, so I could pick off as many terrorists with the .303 in and around the green as possible.

:rolleyes: sure you would

pinkypinky

Jacobs: they had all the biscuits.

meathstevie

paul71 wrote: »

Ashbourne was the accidental birthplace of the flying column. It showed that a dozen men with bicycles and shotguns could exceed anything 2,000 men with muasers could acheive.

Small bicycle mounted unit tactics were hardly invented by the Volunteers/IRA in Ashbourne. The Belgian Army during the summer of 1914 carried out numerous guerilla style attacks against the advancing German Army using small bike mounted units and small arms. Some would argue that these harassing attacks contributed substantially to the BEF, French and bulk of the Belgian army being able to stabilise their front in what would become known as the Western Front.

a148pro

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They came under heavy fire after the Brits took the Shelbourne and they abandoned the Square which had been completely barricaded.

The location I would pick would be Dublin Castle. A frontal attack on HQ. It ended up being a rooftop sniper attack against insurmountable British forces.

I thought the Castle was virtually undefended and they missed a trick?

Interestingly I was thinking about this a lot over the weekend but I reckoned I would have probably adopted a "wait and see" approach over 1916 but would almost definitely have gotten involved in the war of independence. Any easy statement to make from the comfort of my laptop 100 years later and free!

KingBrian2

a148pro wrote: »

I thought the Castle was virtually undefended and they missed a trick?

Interestingly I was thinking about this a lot over the weekend but I reckoned I would have probably adopted a "wait and see" approach over 1916 but would almost definitely have gotten involved in the war of independence. Any easy statement to make from the comfort of my laptop 100 years later and free!

It was virtually undefended and nearly fell. I could see why some would be more committed to the war of independence even so i'm not convinced the landing of the arms was the only reason to attempt an insurrection. Mobilisation order had already been given out and enough volunteers showed up to show the British we were serious about what we wanted.

Stojkovic

Defo Mount Street Bridge.

Picking off the Imperialist infidels at will.

Would have been great craic.

recedite

pinkypinky wrote: »

Jacobs: they had all the biscuits.

Moore St has a McDonalds very handy, in the ILAC centre.

Lt Dan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you were serving as a Volunteer in the 1916 rising which Rebel location would you want to be stationed in?

Eh, the one in which you were ordered to go

The one with less fighting. Definitely not in South Union and most certainly not in St Stephen's Green.

Why didn't the Green not take the Shelbourne? Nice food, beds and a chance to snip at those Trinity boys

Lt Dan

recedite wrote: »

Moore St has a McDonalds very handy, in the ILAC centre.

It might have been Mac Donald's then.

Lt Dan

Stojkovic wrote: »

Defo Mount Street Bridge.

Picking off the Imperialist infidels at will.

Would have been great craic.

Until you realise that De Valera failed to send reinforcements, there are only two of you left in one house, and the British were getting through the door

Lt Dan

Del.Monte wrote: »

This is supposed to be the History Forum not AH, but if you must - the College of Surgeons would have been a good choice as there was plenty of good restaurants close by. The Stephen's Green Club or the Royal Irish Automobile Club would have been delighted to welcome any friend of Countess Markievicz.

Great Choice, just stay out of the Green.

Trenches? Wtf?

Lt Dan

bobbyss wrote: »

An interesting question.

I actually don't know the lay out of most of the locations but didn't Collins say that the GPO was a bad location? Couldn't it have been surrounded?

I don't know what happened exactly in Stephen's Green, did they just go into the Green itself and dig trenches? I am most probably wrong in that as I could not see the sense of it. But I think they were sniped at from the buildings around it if they had done so.

I don't even know where the College of Surgeons is or why they would have wanted to take it.

Sadly, you are correct on the trenches. With so many buildings with access to the roof, they picked an open green, dug trenched and got picked off. The British, even with a lousy shot must have thought that it was Christmas. Even just rattling a volley of shots a few meters away from the gang in the trenches would have sacred the poor buggers into surrendering. Credit to them, they held out as well as they could.

College of Surgeons might have been more easily defended. Decent supply of medicine and access to the roof for a spot of sniping

Lt Dan

Remarkable that none of the men thought taking over Heuston Station and Connolly Station as we now know them was a good idea and knock out the rail lines coming from Belfast and the Curragh/Athlone.

Might have been a decent escape route too.

Second location to go for would have been Dun Laoighre Ports and of course the castle (why no advance scouting? Collins if he had been a leader would probably have know who was going to the races in addition "to what they had for breakfast")

Sure we all know that the boys from the country who would have rised would have came to Dublin, like they did for All Ireland Final day on their bikes and horse and cart .Jeez.

South Union, close to Heuston was a great spot, pity the poor buggers got the brunt of the attacks. Bolands was good too

KingBrian2

An often unspoken location was the raid on the Phoenix Park and subsequent opening explosion in the battle. A successful operation to confiscate arms for use by the volunteers.

recedite

Lt Dan wrote: »

Remarkable that none of the men thought taking over Heuston Station and Connolly Station as we now know them was a good idea and knock out the rail lines coming from Belfast and the Curragh/Athlone.

Might have been a decent escape route too.

You are missing the point of the rising. It was a Grand Gesture. Hold some key landmark buildings for a while. Get martyred by the enemy (by as many of them as possible, to show how brave you are). Die as a hero and make the news headlines.

KingBrian2

recedite wrote: »

You are missing the point of the rising. It was a Grand Gesture. Hold some key landmark buildings for a while. Get martyred by the enemy (by as many of them as possible, to show how brave you are). Die as a hero and make the news headlines.

Yes that was only after the arms were intercepted before that they had radically different plans. Some of the Rising leaders themselves campaigned to prevent the rising from taking place. De Valera, The Rahilly and Maude Gonne among others were sceptical of the ambush tactics employed by the Rebels. Considering the enormous weight of the British at that time without decent back up they were doomed.

Lt Dan

recedite wrote: »

You are missing the point of the rising. It was a Grand Gesture. Hold some key landmark buildings for a while. Get martyred by the enemy (by as many of them as possible, to show how brave you are). Die as a hero and make the news headlines.

It was more than a grand gesture. Pearse and Plunkett genuinely thought , at least publicly , that the rest of the country would rise and come to Dublin and somehow win a battle or two. More might have came but for McNeill's action. I can't believe that guys like Connolly , Major Mac Bride who had real military experience (and I think , though could be wrong, JJ Ginger O'Neill) and the main co-leader of ICA (Jack?) would not have given their views. The other signatories weren't down with dying first, Independence second

Funny, few ever talk about The O'Rahily. He followed McNeill's orders to get around the country to call things off. Yet, unlike McNeill, he still went out to fight. We are all aware too of how he died

recedite

Lt Dan wrote: »

Funny, few ever talk about The O'Rahily. He followed McNeill's orders to get around the country to call things off. Yet, unlike McNeill, he still went out to fight. We are all aware too of how he died

He wasn't just following McNeill's orders, he knew they would lose the fight and die.

Like his fellow gentleman scholar and Volunteer Chief of Staff Eoin MacNeill, he opposed any armed action by the Volunteers unless it was defensive – a reaction to the British suppression of the movement or the introduction of conscription into Ireland.
So when the secret plan of the Military Council was revealed to the formal leadership of the Volunteers at the last minute on Good Friday 1916, O’Rahilly opposed it and supported MacNeill in trying to call it off....


Over the next 24 hours O’Rahilly drove (in fact he had a heavy cold and hired a taxi, which must have been expensive) through Cork, Kerry, Limerick and Tipperary on Saturday night to Sunday morning, telling the Volunteer units there not to mobilise and that MacNeill had been deceived. There at least, in his native Munster, he seems to have been effective, as the Volunteers did not stir...
Arriving back in Dublin, exhausted and ‘covered in grime’ O’Rahilly assumed the rebellion had indeed been averted. But it had only been put off for a day. On Easter Monday, he was greeted, unexpectedly with the sounds of battle. In the capital the insurrection had gone ahead despite his and MacNeill’s efforts.
In a quixotic gesture, worthy perhaps of his class and generation, he joined the fighting anyway at the rebel headquarters at the GPO. He turned up ‘immaculately uniformed’ and driving his top of the range De Dion automobile. Two famous quotes are attributed to him. “Well, I’ve helped to wind up the clock” he is said to have declared – “I might as well hear it strike!” And just as telling, “it is madness but it is glorious madness”.

Like officers killed on the Western Front in 1914, he was shot down leading a charge, sword in hand. According to one Volunteer, ‘he had covered only a few yards when he was shot from the barricades and he fell forward, his sword clattering in front of him’. There is no doubting the bravery of his actions in leading the charge from the GPO to Moore Street, but O’ Rahilly’s death was more agonising than glorious. After being shot he lay for hours overnight alone dying slowly of blood loss. He managed to scribble off a farewell note to his wife and that night was heard crying for water.

I can't help thinking of that last episode of Blackadder, when he goes over the top waving his revolver in one hand and his baton in the other, as they charge the German machine guns.