Is my body transform possible?

IR1SH RANG3R

Hi All,

I have a very basic question that I couldn't think where to put so gonna stick it in here. So the below picture shows me currently on the left (after losing about a stone doing 5x5) and on the right shows my ultimate goal (10 points if you can guess who :P ).

My question is, is this transformation possible? Should I start by bulking or cutting (I'm assuming cutting)? I know the basics about weight loss and macros etc. so no need for detail. I'm just trying to get back into it after a long break away (and slipping back into bad habits) and I want to have an achievable goal to shoot for and a solid plan that I know will get me there!

Thanks!

Dtp1979

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Hi All,

I have a very basic question that I couldn't think where to put so gonna stick it in here. So the below picture shows me currently on the left (after losing about a stone doing 5x5) and on the right shows my ultimate goal (10 points if you can guess who :P ).

My question is, is this transformation possible? Should I start by bulking or cutting (I'm assuming cutting)? I know the basics about weight loss and macros etc. so no need for detail. I'm just trying to get back into it after a long break away (and slipping back into bad habits) and I want to have an achievable goal to shoot for and a solid plan that I know will get me there!

Thanks!

Have a read of this thread from a few days ago. I found it very informative.

IR1SH RANG3R

Is there supposed to be a link there?

Alf Veedersane

Anything is possible if you go about it the right way.

You're still in cutting territory so tracking based in knowing your maintenance calories is the way forward.

Dtp1979

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Is there supposed to be a link there?

Sorry!!
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/99174067

jack923

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Hi All,

I have a very basic question that I couldn't think where to put so gonna stick it in here. So the below picture shows me currently on the left (after losing about a stone doing 5x5) and on the right shows my ultimate goal (10 points if you can guess who :P ).

My question is, is this transformation possible? Should I start by bulking or cutting (I'm assuming cutting)? I know the basics about weight loss and macros etc. so no need for detail. I'm just trying to get back into it after a long break away (and slipping back into bad habits) and I want to have an achievable goal to shoot for and a solid plan that I know will get me there!

Thanks!

Well if it was me I would get my body fat percentage down to about 10% and then start lifting but many will disagree

Oregano_State

jack923 wrote: »

Well if it was me I would get my body fat percentage down to about 10% and then start lifting but many will disagree

Lifting while cutting is the best way to go. Maintains your lean body mass as much as possible while losing fat.

I would advise him to aim to lose no more than 0.5kg per week in order to maintain muscle mass.

Dtp1979

Oregano_State wrote: »

Lifting while cutting is the best way to go. Maintains your lean body mass as much as possible while losing fat.

I would advise him to aim to lose no more than 0.5kg per week in order to maintain muscle mass.

And when he gets to 10-12% bodyfat, continue the same lifting routine, only this time clean bulk?

Greenmachine

Not sure who you are aiming to look like. a few pooints
But his arms are huge compare to yours
You can most likely reduce your body fat with consistent diet and exercise
No one can put a time frame, or predict exact results

MightyMandarin

Greenmachine wrote: »

Not sure who you are aiming to look like. a few pooints
But his arms are huge compare to yours
You can most likely reduce your body fat with consistent diet and exercise
No one can put a time frame, or predict exact results

If you strip away the fat his everything is likely huge compared to OP's, but there's no need to worry imo. The physique on the right is easily achievable in 1-2 years if the OP does it correctly.

I'd start with a slow cut for a few months, just to get to a reasonable level of leanness and then clean bulk your way back up, but very slowly.

Mellor

Yes it's possible
You should cut now
Keeping lifting too, may answer stick with the 5x5

MightyMandarin

Just out of curiosity OP, what's your height/weight? It might be able to give you a better idea when to stop cutting as it's difficult to base it on looks when most people only notice the changes through progress photos or just the numbers on the scale.

IR1SH RANG3R

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Just out of curiosity OP, what's your height/weight? It might be able to give you a better idea when to stop cutting as it's difficult to base it on looks when most people only notice the changes through progress photos or just the numbers on the scale.

I'm currently 5'9 25 years of age and weigh 170 pounds. Read that it'd be an idea to cut until I can see my abs then start bulking. Also I do the Ice Cream fitness 5x5 but should this be 3x5 when cutting?

MightyMandarin

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

I'm currently 5'9 25 years of age and weigh 170 pounds. Read that it'd be an idea to cut until I can see my abs then start bulking. Also I do the Ice Cream fitness 5x5 but should this be 3x5 when cutting?

I'd be wary of the whole 'cut until I see abs' thing as it's very hard to see them when there's probably barely any decent level of muscle there. I know myself that when starting out (and I wasn't much leaner than you btw) that 'cutting until I see abs' was nearly an impossible task. What I would suggest, is to set an arbitrary number; for you let's say 160lbs and give you at least 12 weeks to hit it. Any quicker than 12wks and you'll likely be burning whatever muscle you have on you already.

Once you hit ~160lbs then just work your way back up slowly adding ~1lb a week and don't stop until you hit at least 175-180lbs, not even if you feel fat again. If you find yourself gaining less than 1lb/week, then just eat a little bit more each day and if more than 1lb/week a little bit less.

The key to any sort of 'body transformation' is patience and consistency with your training and diet. You might need motivation for the first few weeks, but once you get into the habit of training and preparing meals you won't even have to think about it.

Any proper set:rep range is acceptable, but sticking with 5x5 is favourable imo. Don't be afraid to do 6x6, 5x3 (for heavier weights), and even 3x8 for some isolation work either. As long as you're getting stronger you'll make progress.

Dtp1979

To build muscle, would he be better off doing body builder workouts or more strength based excersises?

MightyMandarin

Dtp1979 wrote: »

To build muscle, would he be better off doing body builder workouts or more strength based excersises?

Both are strength-based.

I never understand why people think bodybuilding and powerlifting/strength training are mutually exclusive. Bodybuilders live by 'progressive overload' in their training which is exactly what strength training is about too. Some people love to think that bodybuilders are just big, but you'd be hard pressed to find a proper bodybuilder who can't bench 3 plates or squat 4.

Powerlifters focus on the 'big 3' but building muscle and losing fat (aka bodybuilding) is also an integral part of increasing one's total. If you can fill out your weightclass and have a lean, muscular physique, you have a better potential to be stronger than someone who carries a lot of fat.

But to answer your question properly, anything will add muscle so long as his diet is in check. One could even do calisthenics or crossfit and still build muscle.

Irishcrx

Yes it's possible to get a body like that , anything is possible with the right time, effort and training.

Like others have said , your best off starting to lift now and cutting weight down until you lose the Belly and bodyfat and then starting to lean bulk back up , will probably take a couple of cutting and bulking cycles to get to where you want to be.

Abs are like any other muscle in the body , you have to grow them first and then worry about getting them to show. If you have never lifted weights, you most likely don't have the abs to show. Start working them. Your core will be worked with most exercises you start doing on heavy lifts but you can do isolation exercises as well.

Once you get lean focus on full body work outs , at 5'9 you are going to want to get wide, you can't change your height (I'm 5'9 too) but you can get much broader and that leads to the powerfull look your after. Work your back, shoulders , arms , traps and don't forget leg day!

Zillah

I'm convinced my abs don't pop for genetic reasons. My core is very strong but it just seems to grow as a block rather than as separate segments, regardless of body fat.

Point being, try not to get too hung up on specific visual qualities. Get leaner and stronger and you'll look and feel better. Great to have an ideal target in mind but just don't get focused on it.

Greenmachine

MightyMandarin wrote: »

If you strip away the fat his everything is likely huge compared to OP's, but there's no need to worry imo. The physique on the right is easily achievable in 1-2 years if the OP does it correctly.

I'd start with a slow cut for a few months, just to get to a reasonable level of leanness and then clean bulk your way back up, but very slowly.

My point was more the OP has no arms to speak of if he stripped the fat his he might be left with skin and bone.

Greenmachine

MightyMandarin wrote: »

If you strip away the fat his everything is likely huge compared to OP's, but there's no need to worry imo. The physique on the right is easily achievable in 1-2 years if the OP does it correctly.

I'd start with a slow cut for a few months, just to get to a reasonable level of leanness and then clean bulk your way back up, but very slowly.

My point was more the OP has no arms to speak of if he stripped the fat his he might be left with skin and bone. This is come a skin a bone fella that could never build his arms. Never had a b/f issue. But could not get those guns.

Transform

Greenmachine wrote: »

My point was more the OP has no arms to speak of if he stripped the fat his he might be left with skin and bone. This is come a skin a bone fella that could never build his arms. Never had a b/f issue. But could not get those guns.

id be stunned if you couldnt get there in about 6 months with regular training and nutrition but obviously longer if you dont get strong as duck and only lock down nutrition monday to thursday

IR1SH RANG3R

Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate it. I'm not really new to all of this, I had some moderate success (hard to tell from the pics) in dropping weight before but it wouldn't have been the healthiest of cuts. I'm gonna stick to the Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 and will post up my full plan (diet and training) for critique and refinement when I get it together. Again appreciate the help

Mellor

Greenmachine wrote: »

My point was more the OP has no arms to speak of if he stripped the fat his he might be left with skin and bone. This is come a skin a bone fella that could never build his arms. Never had a b/f issue. But could not get those guns.

MightyMandarin's point was that if you stripped back his whole body, the other pics would have more muscle all over.

If you personally have small arms. It's down to your training pland and/or your nutrition. And if you struggle to build muscle on your arms, its unlikely that you have much muscle anywhere else.

MightyMandarin

Mellor wrote: »

MightyMandarin's point was that if you stripped back his whole body, the other pics would have more muscle all over.

If you personally have small arms. It's down to your training pland and/or your nutrition. And if you struggle to build muscle on your arms, its unlikely that you have much muscle anywhere else.

This should be the first thing said to anyone who claims their arms are skinny/undersized. Any time I talk to someone in person who makes this claim, their arms are always in proportion to their body because they're skinny all over.

Anyone looking to get 'big arms' should focus on building their chest,back and shoulders, and the arms will most certainly follow.

Greenmachine

MightyMandarin wrote: »

This should be the first thing said to anyone who claims their arms are skinny/undersized. Any time I talk to someone in person who makes this claim, their arms are always in proportion to their body because they're skinny all over.

Anyone looking to get 'big arms' should focus on building their chest,back and shoulders, and the arms will most certainly follow.

I will agree. One there. I still feel the leanness in the torso will be the easiest to achieve but a suitable strength program will certain build up his traps, lats, delts, triceps etc.

Mellor

Greenmachine wrote: »

I will agree. One there. I still feel the leanness in the torso will be the easiest to achieve but a suitable strength program will certain build up his traps, lats, delts, triceps etc.

Torso tends to carry more fat than other body parts (such as arms) in males. If you've achieved a lean torso, everything else will look after itself.
A strength program will also build his arms also (triceps are a large part of that). I find it really hard to envision somebody that has decent chest, back, trap, delt mass. But can never build his arms.

Greenmachine

Mellor wrote: »

Torso tends to carry more fat than other body parts (such as arms) in males. If you've achieved a lean torso, everything else will look after itself.
A strength program will also build his arms also (triceps are a large part of that). I find it really hard to envision somebody that has decent chest, back, trap, delt mass. But can never build his arms.

Your reading me wrong was saying that training arm alone won't do it. He would have to hit the other group I mentioned.

Mellor

Greenmachine wrote: »

Your reading me wrong was saying that training arm alone won't do it. He would have to hit the other group I mentioned.

Nobody suggested training arms only . Our point was that he'll need to strip fat and add muscle all over. You were the one who singled out arms specifically as being somehow different to the rest.

Irishcrx

You hit all muscle groups together and they should all grow together so that you are equally proportioned.

Remember your arms are always working , not only when isolated...deadlift , bench press , dips , pull ups , shrugs , squats your arms are always involved in the movement so there always at work.

Just train them along with everything else and focus on the body as a whole , given time and correct stimulas/diet they will follow along.

It doesn't happen over night it takes months to see a differance , year or two of hard training to have a decent size from where your at.

Triangla

Transform wrote: »

id be stunned if you couldnt get there in about 6 months with regular training and nutrition but obviously longer if you dont get strong as duck and only lock down nutrition monday to thursday

Comments like the above amaze me, they really do. "Stunned if you couldn't get there in about 6 months with regular training and nutrition". 6 months later the person doesn't reach that state, thinks there's something wrong with them and quits.

The OP, going by the pic and the fact he's looking for advice is obviously new to weight training.

6 months from where he is now to the desired state is very achievable in 6 months if he's a movie star being spoon fed training regimes and the perfect food at the perfect time with nothing else in his life to do except work out and recover.

In the real world, it will take a long time to build up a solid foundation of strength. As per previous posters, 5 x 5 is a good starting point but make sure to join a good gym where you will be shown how to perform exercises properly and get some advice on food.

There's a lot of leg work in 5 x 5 so you may decide to do it for a few months then stop for a while to focus growth elsewhere. Legs have big muscles and take a lot of resources to build size. Once you're working out regularly and watching the calories muscle will build up and fat will reduce.

Throw in some cardio work a day or two a week, long walks or cycles to get the heart rate going also.

Keep your expectations of results in the real world, it will take time and effort, there will be setbacks but keep plugging away. It may take 1 or 2 years but once you get to where you want to be you'll be happy you did it.

Form is everything, get this right from day 1. Life what you can lift, not what you can swing.

MightyMandarin

Triangla wrote: »

There's a lot of leg work in 5 x 5 so you may decide to do it for a few months then stop for a while to focus growth elsewhere. Legs have big muscles and take a lot of resources to build size. Once you're working out regularly and watching the calories muscle will build up and fat will reduce

Wtf does that mean? You should be focusing growth everywhere, all the time, not just going on a 3 month blast for legs and then another 3 months for chest, for example. Everything should be in proportion, so working each muscle group 1-2x per week is what's needed.

Hanley

Mellor wrote: »

MightyMandarin's point was that if you stripped back his whole body, the other pics would have more muscle all over.

If you personally have small arms. It's down to your training pland and/or your nutrition. And if you struggle to build muscle on your arms, its unlikely that you have much muscle anywhere else.

that is such an insanely rock solid point. bravo!

Mellor

Triangla wrote: »

Comments like the above amaze me, they really do. "Stunned if you couldn't get there in about 6 months with regular training and nutrition". 6 months later the person doesn't reach that state, thinks there's something wrong with them and quits.

He clear said it can be 6 months if you lock everything down, and will be longer if you are less strict with nutrition.

There no way a person nails it for 6 months and doesn't get anywhere. I don;t think he was saying you'll look like that pic in 6 months. The post was a reply to a "can't get anywhere" type post.

...but make sure to join a good gym where you will be shown how to perform exercises properly and get some advice on food.

The advice you'll get from a gym for free will be mediocre at best tbh. You certainly get better advice here or elsewhere on line if you put the effort into getting feedback.

There's a lot of leg work in 5 x 5 so you may decide to do it for a few months then stop for a while to focus growth elsewhere. Legs have big muscles and take a lot of resources to build size.

What you you suggest instead of 5x5?
Not working your legs will severely slow progress imo

Irishcrx

Mellor wrote: »

He clear said it can be 6 months if you lock everything down, and will be longer if you are less strict with nutrition.

There no way a person nails it for 6 months and doesn't get anywhere. I don;t think he was saying you'll look like that pic in 6 months. The post was a reply to a "can't get anywhere" type post.


The advice you'll get from a gym for free will be mediocre at best tbh. You certainly get better advice here or elsewhere on line if you put the effort into getting feedback.


What you you suggest instead of 5x5?
Not working your legs will severely slow progress imo

A lot of people seem to think at the start , ah sure my legs are a grand size I'll leave them until later down the line.

Don't, start working them straight away along with everything else. Other than them being strong muscles they are also required for the core lifts in a huge way.

Working your legs also releases additional testosterone to the body , which will help everything along in terms of growth upper and lower body.

Greenmachine

Mellor wrote: »

Nobody suggested training arms only . Our point was that he'll need to strip fat and add muscle all over. You were the one who singled out arms specifically as being somehow different to the rest.

Only because they were near polar opposite with the guy he was comparing himself with. He will lose weight quicker than he will add inches to his arm, but determination and consistency, he can potentially a real transformation.

I am out of this thread at this point. I am being realistic here not making any false promises to anyone. Somehow people are getting seriously butt hurt and that is not my intention.

Irishcrx

Greenmachine wrote: »

Only because they were near polar opposite with the guy he was comparing himself with. He will lose weight quicker than he will add inches to his arm, but determination and consistency, he can potentially a real transformation.

I am out of this thread at this point. I am being realistic here not making any false promises to anyone. Somehow people are getting seriously butt hurt and that is not my intention.

I don't think anyone is getting butt hurt but look your giving them the reality of the situation and that's better than false promises.

You see everywhere these days pictures of extremely ripped guys 'TRANSFORMED IN 8 WEEKS' YOU CAN DO IT TOO...

It gives people an unrealistic expectation , those photos you see obvious to most who train take a hell of a lot longer to reach than 8 weeks/12 weeks unless them people were already training beforehand.

You don't just wake up in the morning and become Zack Effron , you can achieve that ripped look but it takes time and work , drop weight , add muscle mass , drop fat, add muscle mass...it takes time.

And IMO people are better hearing the truth and then deciding if they are in or out.

Brian?

A lot of back and forth that doesn't really help the OP, so I haven't read the whole thread.

My advice is to forget the cut/bulk idea. Have your body fat measured. Vary your calorie intake based on that. Eat a calorie deficit if you're over your BF target and a surplus if you're under. Pick 2 % thresholds, say 17 and 14. Eat a deficit until you hit 14 and then a surplus until you hit 17. Both the deficit and surplus, no more that 500kcals.

All the while you focus on getting stronger. What 5x5 are you doing?

JJayoo

Zach Effron for the bonus 10 points


And OP I believe in you

Dtp1979

JJayoo wrote: »

Zach Effron for the bonus 10 points


And OP I believe in you

Bieber for 10

JJayoo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Bieber for 10

100% my boy Zach

Triangla

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Wtf does that mean? You should be focusing growth everywhere, all the time, not just going on a 3 month blast for legs and then another 3 months for chest, for example. Everything should be in proportion, so working each muscle group 1-2x per week is what's needed.

I said that in relation to 5 x 5 which involves squatting 3 days a week every week. In time the OP may decide that chain (involving legs) is strong enough and may decide to develop another area a bit more.

This is the basis of body building. You don't just train everything all of the time. You look in the mirror and ask yourself should that muscle be bigger, should that muscle be smaller?

You may decide to do a month or two where you focus more on smaller muscles like biceps or triceps or pecs.

My legs respond very quickly to training and I find I have to lay off squats to keep them where I want them to be. I have trouble buying jeans as I can't squeeze my calves into some brands.

The OP has a specific goal in mind so will want to emphasise certain muscles more than others.

Triangla

Mellor wrote: »

He clear said it can be 6 months if you lock everything down, and will be longer if you are less strict with nutrition.

There no way a person nails it for 6 months and doesn't get anywhere. I don;t think he was saying you'll look like that pic in 6 months. The post was a reply to a "can't get anywhere" type post.


The advice you'll get from a gym for free will be mediocre at best tbh. You certainly get better advice here or elsewhere on line if you put the effort into getting feedback.


What you you suggest instead of 5x5?
Not working your legs will severely slow progress imo

In the real world that the OP inhabits, he will not get from picture A to picture B in 6 months. It may be a goal to do it in that time frame but it is unrealistic and will not happen.

Choose a realistic timeframe to achieve your goal, this increases the probability of success and reduces the probability of injury.

I said join a good gym so he can be shown how to perform lifts correctly. I have been members of good and bad gyms. Good gyms are where the staff are available and on hand to help you out when you start off.

He can do 5 x 5 but skip squats one or two days a week - if he so chooses. As per my previous posts he may decide he is happy with his legs and substitute in isolation movements for muscles he wants to develop or compound movements like Turkish get ups to help strengthen his core and shoulders in line with picture B.

Legs are also worked in the deadlift and in cardio such as walking and cycling that I suggested.

Mellor

Triangla wrote: »

In the real world that the OP inhabits, he will not get from picture A to picture B in 6 months. It may be a goal to do it in that time frame but it is unrealistic and will not happen.

Nobody said it would take the OP 6 months.
The 6months was to a different poster who said he could build his arms.

I agree that the need to squat everyday dimishes after a while. Not every 5x5 routine involves squats everyday though. No need to worry about what to do next for a few months though.

I'm aware that there are good gyms and not so good gyms. But in general, coaching that's free isn't very good, I wouldn't expect somebody to rely on it.
Obviously I don't include "inclusive coaching" in a premium gym as free.

Alf Veedersane

Triangla wrote: »

He can do 5 x 5 but skip squats one or two days a week - if he so chooses. As per my previous posts he may decide he is happy with his legs and substitute in isolation movements for muscles he wants to develop or compound movements like Turkish get ups to help strengthen his core and shoulders in line with picture B.

Legs are also worked in the deadlift and in cardio such as walking and cycling that I suggested.

The OP needs a properly structured programme - not 5x5 but with ad hoc changes like walking/cycling for squats etc. Or any program where he's tweaking it because he won't know what to tweak or why. Better off getting a program from a trainer amd following it or sticking to a set program. Not having to think about what he has to do will serve the OP much better.

And neither walking or cycling will work the legs in any meaningful way when it comes to building muscle.

Transform

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The OP needs a properly structured programme - not 5x5 but with ad hoc changes like walking/cycling for squats etc. Or any program where he's tweaking it because he won't know what to tweak or why. Better off getting a program from a trainer amd following it or sticking to a set program. Not having to think about what he has to do will serve the OP much better.

And neither walking or cycling will work the legs in any meaningful way when it comes to building muscle.

walking working the legs, that made me lol, my postman would have shredded and super strong legs otherwise

MightyMandarin

Triangla wrote: »

This is the basis of body building. You don't just train everything all of the time. You look in the mirror and ask yourself should that muscle be bigger, should that muscle be smaller?

Legs are also worked[...]in cardio such as walking and cycling

You say you're talking about bodybuilding, and then you claim walking and cycling will work your legs. I forgot Rob Heffernan and Chris Froome were going around with 30" quads. You haven't a clue what you're on about.

The rest of your argument was nonsense aswell. The only time someone should even think about stopping training a certain bodypart to focus on another is when they've reached a high level of bodybuilding and that bodypart is just overshadowing their other areas and ruining their physique. This is purely for competitive bodybuilders and would be applicable to about 0.001% of regular gym-goers.

You're just trying to give yourself an excuse to stop squatting (presumably because you don't like it). Also, If your jeans are too tight then buy a bigger size or get a more tapered fit. Having bigger legs should give one more motivation to squat, not to get lazy and stop.

Transform

went shopping for jeans in a few places recently - couldt fit into 90% of what was on offer, didnt stop squatting the next week just found a pair that suited my body
nailed it, lol


but seriously, most guys that think about body part training too much are, in my experience, seriously lacking some base strength and likely use the word "bro" and "aesthetics" far too much when the answer is lets talk when you have a double body weight deadlift, 1.5 x body weight squat and can dip and chin for reps with 20kg added weight, oh and they usually lack ANY true intensity in their training.

ThinkProgress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The OP needs a properly structured programme - not 5x5 but with ad hoc changes like walking/cycling for squats etc. Or any program where he's tweaking it because he won't know what to tweak or why. Better off getting a program from a trainer amd following it or sticking to a set program. Not having to think about what he has to do will serve the OP much better.

And neither walking or cycling will work the legs in any meaningful way when it comes to building muscle.

I'd be really disappointed if someone transformed their physique, but didn't have to think or learn anything about themselves during that process.

Plus I would consider it very unlikely that someone could actually achieve a level of perfection without doing so...

Walking and cycling will be beneficial for creating great legs, and all round physique... It's just that their effects are not as easy to see as the effects of something like squats.

I know the discussion was about "pure bodybuilding" principles... But from my perspective, even though bodybuilding is the sport of aesthetics... I don't consider bodybuilders to have the best legs or all round physiques.

Squats are a great. I love doing squats... But just doing squats - or just doing strength exercises in general - will not produce perfect legs!

Much more variety is required. (Just my personal opinion)

ThinkProgress

@transform - Damn you. Nobody should have to to view something like that shortly before consuming food... lol

That post needs a graphic content warning at the top!

Alf Veedersane

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I'd be really disappointed if someone transformed their physique, but didn't have to think or learn anything about themselves during that process.

Plus I would consider it very unlikely that someone could actually achieve a level of perfection without doing so...

Walking and cycling will be beneficial for creating great legs, and all round physique... It's just that their effects are not as easy to see as the effects of something like squats.

I know the discussion was about "pure bodybuilding" principles... But from my perspective, even though bodybuilding is the sport of aesthetics... I don't consider bodybuilders to have the best legs or all round physiques.

Squats are a great. I love doing squats... But just doing squats - or just doing strength exercises in general - will not produce perfect legs!

Much more variety is required. (Just my personal opinion)

Following a structured programme and thinking for yourself are not mutually exclusive.

The OP wants results. 'Playing around' might get him there but it will take him a hell of a lot longer and he still might not be any wiser than following a structured programme.

Mellor

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I know the discussion was about "pure bodybuilding" principles... But from my perspective, even though bodybuilding is the sport of aesthetics... I don't consider bodybuilders to have the best legs or all round physiques.

I agree. But that has little to do with their routine, and much more to do with their intake. Some like like a physiques model is essentially a bodybuilder with lower calories and pharma. And most of the general public would consider them to have a much great "all round physiques".


Besides, I don't think we we're actually discussing bodybuilding. That was a suggestion from a poster who advocated no squats after a while.

Powerlifting, olympic lifting, Bodybuilding, Physique/Aestheics, calisthenics, gymnastics, etc are all highly specialized aspects of training. Picking at the differences between one or the other is completely off the OP's radar at this stage. It's not what he should be focusing on imo