Leylandii v Privet (Golden Varieties)

MarkAnthony

Hi all,

I've a very exposed front garden I'd like to put a hedge up in. It's probably a boundary of about 10m. I was very taken with someone's very well kept and thin Golden Privet and was strongly considering that. However I'd like something fairly quick growing so that ideally, it's a good sized hedge in around a year. (Around 5ft stopping visibility from the road.)

I was browsing this website and they make the Golden Leylandii look very nice and it would be a bit cheaper. I've been warned off them though by my father who seems to equate them with the spawn of satan. I'm willing to give it a trim every few months and I probably won't be here past 60, should I still avoid it?

Many Thanks!

HeidiHeidi

The spawn of Satan is the least I'd call it!

I inherited a leylandii hedge in a tiny town garden in my first house and it was a nightmare. Impossible to trim as it oozed sticky resin, and grew like billy-o. But still managed to develop dead patches in places.

Hateful stuff.

I've seen a house local to me that has Red Robin (don't know the official name) as a hedge and I think it's lovely. If you got well established plants it grows and thickens quite quickly.

eta http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056185115 thread about it here

Sonnenblumen

Although Red Robin (Photinia) would be a popular choice for a hedge and a much better alternative to Leylandii/Privet, the Photinia does still require a reasonable level of maintenance and can be a little tricky to get right.
Another hardy option but less fussy than Red Robin is Viburnum Tinus, evergreen, tough and producing plenty of flower late in year/early new year would IMO be a better choice.

MarkAnthony

Thanks folks! I've my heart set on a golden privet after seeing the great job someone had done with one. I'll have a look for the google map link. I think what you're saying is a Privet is going to grow pretty quickly too?

Thanks again for the advice!

MarkAnthony

Link

Doesn't really do it justice as it's looking a lot nicer now, but to be fair that kinda gives me some info on how fast it grows!

Skrynesaver

Another strong hedging plant is escollonia.

Your father is right, anything other than Leylandii, it grows about a metre a year and it is not possible to maintain in the longer term.

MarkAnthony

The other thing... a bit unrelated. I'm luck enough to have a nice side plot I'm going to use for veggies. If I but a bird table in the front garden am I asking for trouble from birds eating everything on the veggie plot?

MarkAnthony

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Another strong hedging plant is escollonia.

Your father is right, anything other than Leylandii, it grows about a metre a year and it is not possible to maintain in the longer term.

Spoke to him again there, my mother was in the background shouting about how I won't get a decent lawn lol! So I think Golden Privet. I did see Euonymus in homebase. Just did a google there, doesn't look like it gets favourable reviews! Thoughts? Also it was bloody expensive where I can get privet plant at a fiver or less a pop.

MarkAnthony

While I advise caution while searching for anything bush related, especially when you misspell something and it's corrected to enormous bush this gave me a laugh!

http://thedailysouth.southernliving.com/2009/05/15/five-awful-plants-for-the-front-of-your-house/

Oldtree

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The other thing... a bit unrelated. I'm luck enough to have a nice side plot I'm going to use for veggies. If I but a bird table in the front garden am I asking for trouble from birds eating everything on the veggie plot?

Will need to mind the vegies from the birds anyway (the ones they like) and the slugs and snails and... and... :D:D

wildlifeboy

I have tewn metres of a mix of green and golden privet around my house and I love it I went for 5 golden 5 green 5 golden 5 green etc, on reflection a stupid idea as I should have stuck with one variety, the green grows a lot quicker. but I still love them, trim in may and august and itll be grand. although you wont need to trim it for a few years. keep the young plants thin at the top and thick at the base so encourage thickness in the early stages and much around them to prevent weeds although I didn't and they still grew through the grass.it will take a long time though, I grew mine from cuttings about 5 years ago and only now are forming a good hedge but that wont be a problem for you if you grow more mature ones.

Discodog

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Another strong hedging plant is escollonia.

Your father is right, anything other than Leylandii, it grows about a metre a year and it is not possible to maintain in the longer term.

Leylandi can make a super hedge. It just needs regular cutting. It provides excellent sound & wind protection.

MarkAnthony

Thanks everyone! Any suggestions for someone who'll deliver to Dublin 5. I found readyheadge pretty useless. I'd be looking for someone who offer a bit of advice by email. I've been pretty spoiled by quickcrop for my veggie garden so if anyone knows a bush and fruit tree seller along those lines I'd be delighted to get a recomendation please.

MarkAnthony

Any thoughts on Yew bushes btw?

Discodog

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Any thoughts on Yew bushes btw?

Yew is very slow growing.

MarkAnthony

Okay been told Golden Privet is quite slow growing, so now thinking Laurel perhaps? Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help folks!

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

Leylandi can make a super hedge. It just needs regular cutting. It provides excellent sound & wind protection.

A truely horrible hedging plant. Non native and absolutley no wildlife value. They have introduced planning controls for Leylandii in the UK

In Britain and Ireland, x Cupressocyparis Leylandii is estimated to be the cause of over 20,000 ongoing neighbour disputes. The disputes usually centre on encroachment or the exclusion of sunlight; many of these problems end up in court or worse still, the local accident and emergency room.

Here is the leylandii tree law as it stands in Britain...
- If Leylandii or another form of hedge is encroaching on a neighbour's garden, the neighbours is entitled to trim back the hedge to the boundary themselves, but must return the trimmings to the owner. This law also pertains to Ireland as well.
That solves the sideways growth of the tree for a while, next is the upward growth. You are not entitled without permission to reduce your neighbours tree in height, often done to allow extra sunlight to sites. This is where your people skills will be put to the test as you try to convince your neighbour to top his trees or allow you permission to do so.

- In Britain, if the neighbour digs his heels in and stubbornly refuses to reduce the height of the trees or hedge, then you can contact you local council. A complainant must prove they have tried to resolve matters privately first before approaching their local council. If the council deems the hedge excessive, they can ( under the anti-social behavior act 2003 ) order it to be reduced in height to two metres.

- Failure to comply with this order could mean a fine of £1,000.

Source: http://www.gardenplansireland.com/articles/article21.html

MarkAnthony

So I phoned a few places and ended up dealing with a lovely lady called Joe in Caragh Nurseries. Ended up ordering some tallish Laurel from them, absolutely delighted with the service and I'll be using them again come Oct/Nov for the trees I want.

Thanks everyone for the help!

gozunda

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Okay been told Golden Privet is quite slow growing, so now thinking Laurel perhaps? Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help folks!

I have a 5.5 foot hedge of green privet that I grew from cuttings. The cuttings came from an old derelict garden and the variety has the advantage of been localised and relatively quick to mature. Tbh some of the 'golden' varieties can be too much bling for my own taste. I like plants that are green (I'm a real rebel!).

You wont have a full 5 foot hedge in a year but given decent sizes plants to start with there is no reason that this couldn't be achieved over two growing seasons providing soil and weather conditions are favourable. Tbh most normal woody plants do take a little time to establish but that's half the fun of gardening.

Hoof Hearted2

gozunda wrote: »

A truely horrible hedging plant. Non native and absolutley no wildlife value. They have introduced planning controls for Leylandii in the UK



Source: http://www.gardenplansireland.com/articles/article21.html

You're wrong, it makes an excellent hedging plant (and has as much wildlife value as any other evergreen hedge), and that's why it's has been and continues to used in formal settings in large stately home gardens.
The problem with them arises when they are not maintained correctly (they need to be trimmed at least 4 times a year IMO), but the vast majority of people who buy them don't appreciate and are not prepared for what that workload entails.
To summarise the problem is not the plant but the person who maintains it.

gozunda

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

You're wrong, it makes an excellent hedging plant (and has as much wildlife value as any other evergreen hedge), and that's why it's has been and continues to used in formal settings in large stately home gardens.
The problem with them arises when they are not maintained correctly (they need to be trimmed at least 4 times a year IMO), but the vast majority of people who buy them don't appreciate and are not prepared for what that workload entails.
To summarise the problem is not the plant but the person who maintains it.

No 'you're wrong'

I substitute your opinion for fact!

Did you read the link and detail I included for this disgusting hedging in the UK or what?

Large stately homes eh? The variety only dates from 1888 and arose from a hybrid of chamaecyparis and cuspressus in the Leighton Estate near Welshpool. In VERY big gardens it may be allowed to grow to its maximum height of 100 feet as a TREE. And as a hedging plant - It is most commonly found in very small suburban gardens where it's growth rate and potential size has made it completely unsuitable for the average garden. Plenty of more eafily managed and frankly better hedging varieties out there.Tbh.

As for wildlife it's a dead zone owing to some fairly nasty sticky resin & the complete lack of light results in the death of other vegetation. Compared to a native evergreen like holly it doesn't have a look in.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

No 'you're wrong'

I substitute your opinion for fact!

Did you read the link and detail I included for this disgusting hedging in the UK or what?

Large stately homes eh? The variety only dates from 1888 and arose from a naturally occurring hybrid of chamaecyparis and cuspressus in the Leighton Estate near Welshpool. In VERY big gardens it may be allowed to grow to its maximum height of 100 feet as a TREE. And as a hedging plant - It is most commonly found in very small suburban gardens where it's growth rate and potential size has made it completely unsuitable for the average garden. Plenty of more eafily managed and frankly better hedging varieties out there.Tbh.

As for wildlife it's a dead zone owing to some fairly nasty sticky resin & the complete lack of light results in the death of other vegetation. Compared to a native evergreen like holly it doesn't have a look in.

I must tell the birds that nest in mine every year. It's not banned in the UK. I was trimming a clients leylandi & it's a superb 5ft hedge. Looks almost as good as Yew.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

I must tell the birds that nest in mine every year. It's not banned in the UK. I was trimming a clients leylandi & it's a superb 5ft hedge. Looks almost as good as Yew.

I reckon the birds sit in it due to lack of anything else to do lol...

Nope didn't sat anything about 'banning' lol. Im not big into banning anything tbh. Just that due to the species massive growth rate it makes keeping the monster under control very very difficult in an average garden.

I did forget to mention that Leylandii roots (which being a tree species are huge) extract so much water that they can cause soils to shrink, leading to subsidence in buildings.

As to wildlife - why believe me! Here is what the wildlife trust thinks of it.

The spread of Leyland Cypress at the expense of planting native trees and hedges has not been great news for our wildlife, diminishing nectar and berry sources and suitable nesting areas. Our gardens can provide habitats for all kinds of wildlife, so instead of using exotic species, try planting native shrubs and trees. To find out more about wildlife-friendly gardening, visit our Wild About Gardens website: a joint initiative with the RHS, there's plenty of facts and tips to get you started.

Source:http://mobile.wildlifetrusts.org/site/wildlifetrusts?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlifetrusts.org%2Fspecies%2Fleyland-cypress&utm_referrer=#2769

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

I reckon the birds sit in it due to lack of anything else to do lol...

Nope didn't sat anything about 'banning' lol. Im not big into banning anything tbh. Just that due to the species massive growth rate it makes keeping the monster under control very very difficult in an average garden.

I did forget to mention that Leylandii roots (which being a tree species are huge) extract so much water that they can cause soils to shrink, leading to subsidence in buildings.

As to wildlife - why believe me! Here is what the wildlife trust thinks of it.



Source:http://mobile.wildlifetrusts.org/site/wildlifetrusts?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildlifetrusts.org%2Fspecies%2Fleyland-cypress&utm_referrer=#2769

Monster :eek: Are sure that you aren't confusing it with a Triffid? It's a very useful plant & all it needs is a regular trim. Massive growth, huge roots ? Just keep it as a small/medium hedge.

It can be an absolute life saver. One of my client's neighbours decided to build an extension. Leylandi was the one plant that could form a quick privacy screen.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

Monster :eek: Are sure that you aren't confusing it with a Triffid? It's a very useful plant & all it needs is a regular trim. Massive growth, huge roots ? Just keep it as a small/medium hedge.
It can be an absolute life saver. One of my client's neighbours decided to build an extension. Leylandi was the one plant that could form a quick privacy screen.

You missing the point clearly.:/

Leylandii is a tree species with a maximum height of 100 feet and a branch spread of up to 16 feet. It grows roots to match even where it is pruned to hedge size.

Compare this with a hedge / bush species such as privet with a max height of 12 feet and spread of 6 feet. Much easier to control and won't try and take over your garden...

As a huge (monster/big/very large) tree - Lelylandii requires almost religious prunning. Even missing one seasons pruning could result in excessive labour at dangerous height the following year.

Like a person with long hair - cutting the hair doesn't change the persons size. Exactly the same principal as the roots of leylandii which will continue to grow unhindered beneath ground. This is why the roots are HUGE!

You appear to have a lot of clients/neighbours/others with Leylandii hedges - You better warn them lol.

Ps How did the Leylandii hedge save your man's life btw? That's a new one

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

You missing the point clearly.:/

Leylandii is a tree species with a maximum height of 100 feet and a branch spread of up to 16 feet. It grows roots to match even where it is pruned to hedge size.

Compare this with a hedge / bush species such as privet with a max height of 12 feet and spread of 6 feet. Much easier to control and won't try and take over your garden...

As a huge (monster/big/very large) tree - Lelylandii requires almost religious prunning. Even missing one seasons pruning could result in excessive labour at dangerous height the following year.

Like a person with long hair - cutting the hair doesn't change the persons size. Exactly the same principal as the roots of leylandii which will continue to grow unhindered beneath ground. This is why the roots are HUGE!

You appear to have a lot of clients/neighbours/others with Leylandii hedges - You better warn them lol.

Ps How did the Leylandii hedge save your man's life btw? That's a new one

That's untrue. Any tree's roots with be in proportion to it's height. I have suggested keeping the hedge to a maximum of 6 feet. The idea that it will become out of control if you miss a cut is also wrong.

I have cut a lot of hedges.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

That's untrue. Any tree's roots with be in proportion to it's height. I have suggested keeping the hedge to a maximum of 6 feet. The idea that it will become out of control if you miss a cut is also wrong.
I have cut a lot of hedges.

Well let me put it like this. What you say may be true for a tree left to go naturally. With Leylandii the trouble is you are severely constraining the height of the tree to make it into a hedge.

The result is that in the case of a mature Leylandii hedge (ie a tree variety) the root lenght is significantly greater than a hedge of a bush variety. I have seen an excavated (read bulldozed!) mature Leylandii hedge and the extent of the roots would put the frighteners on you!

I have also seen Leylandii that have been left uncut and yes they can get out of control very quickly due to their extremly high rate of growth.

Again don't believe me? Look it up! It not just me saying this. For sure as long as there are Leylandii hedges - their will be hedge cutters who make good money lol .

I don't doubt you have cut hedges. So have I plus a degree in Horticulture.

Hoof Hearted2

gozunda wrote: »

No 'you're wrong'

I substitute your fact based views for the populous ill-informed and incorrect opinion that the majority hold!

Did you read the link and detail I included for this disgusting hedging in the UK or what?

Large stately homes eh? The variety only dates from 1888 and arose from a hybrid of chamaecyparis and cuspressus in the Leighton Estate near Welshpool. In VERY big gardens it may be allowed to grow to its maximum height of 100 feet as a TREE. And as a hedging plant - It is most commonly found in very small suburban gardens where it's growth rate and potential size has made it completely unsuitable for the average garden. Plenty of more eafily managed and frankly better hedging varieties out there.Tbh.

As for wildlife it's a dead zone owing to some fairly nasty sticky resin & the complete lack of light results in the death of other vegetation. Compared to a native evergreen like holly it doesn't have a look in.

FYP
And FYI it was the Castlewellan estate in Nordy Ireland where they cultivated the Golden version × Cuprocyparis leylandii 'Castlewellan, that is most commonly found in GB and Ireland.

gozunda

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

I substitute your fact based views for the populous ill-informed and incorrect opinion that the majority hold!
FYP
And FYI it was the Castlewellan estate in Nordy Ireland where they cultivated the Golden version × Cuprocyparis leylandii 'Castlewellan, that is most commonly found in GB and Ireland.

(Miaow!) Oh that's a bit hasty considering you're the one that first claimed "you're wrong" lol

Guess what in your own terminology you're wrong again! But either way it's alway nicer to say I disagree with your opinion ...

And if you are going to give your opinion at least try and back it up with some trusted references .

As previously detailed the first recorded hybrid of Chamaecyparis x Cuspressus was in Leighton Park Welshpool. How do we know this? Well it was recorded there and the name funnily enough Leylandii was given to the hybrid by C.J Leyland in 1888 - brother in law of the Owner of Leighton Estate! Since this first hybrid there have been at least 40 other recorded forms producing varieties exhibiting different characteristics such as Haggerston Grey and Robinson's Gold etc etc

Sources:
Field Guide to Trees and Shrubs of Britain. p.273
Trees of Britain and Northern Europe p.68-69


I know I already quoted how Leylandii plantings are estimated to be the cause of over 20,000 ongoing disputes.

I think we can make that 20,001 ....

Look I do get it you like Leylandii but the body of evidence does appear to show that at best the hybrid causes significant problems when planted in small to medium sized gardens even to the point of one recorded fatality!

In 2001, retired Environment Agency officer Llandis Burdon, 57, was shot dead after an alleged dispute over a leylandii hedge in Talybont-on-Usk, Powys.

Source: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/mother-trees-sets-neighbours-war-2204948

Personally I wouldn't let it with 150 miles of me I I had the choice.

MarkAnthony

Thanks again guys, the bushes arrived today, gonna spend the weekend planting!

Oldtree

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Thanks again guys, the bushes arrived today, gonna spend the weekend planting!

Looks like it will be a damp weekend, perfect for planting.
If they are bare root keep the roots damp and out of the wind in a plastic bag while planting.
If in pots give the pots a good soak before planting.
Keep an eye on them after planting and make sure they get enough water while they settle in and esp if the summer is dry.