Golf 'Fitness' - Irish Times

Kevinmarkham

An interesting piece in the Irish Times today about the current rage in Pro golf to be all muscled up... Some very interesting points... and another great reason not to go to the gym and finish that Easter egg.

ShivasIrons

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

An interesting piece in the Irish Times today about the current rage in Pro golf to be all muscled up... Some very interesting points... and another great reason not to go to the gym and finish that Easter egg.

There is so much wrong with this article it's difficult to know where to start but let's look at the title line:

'Obsession with weights overlooks the fact that golf is a mental game'

This shows straight away that the author of the article has no clue. If you are useless at golf and can't swing a club but have an outstanding mental game, guess what, you are useless at golf, no matter how good your thinking you will always be useless.

Golf is a physical game, swinging the club is a physical act, putting is a physical act. The better your physical shape the better your ability to play good golf.

This does not mean you have to be ripped, golf fitness is about the body being able to function properly, it's possible to be overweight and still have a body that functions well.

The author should have tested Angel Cabrera to see what his physical capabilities are. I'm sure he'd find out that he's strong, has speed and moves his body well, all very important for golf. Just because he's a belly doesn't means he's unfit for golf, all it means is that he eats too much.

Why would the paper of record get such an uninformed person to write an article? No research behind it, no knowledge shown and apparently a very closed mind that he can even contemplate that working on fitness might be a good thing.

Paulzx

I don't have strong feelings on this either way. There's no doubt you need to be "golf fit" to play golf at that level. For many golfers that doesn't involve hours in the gym but for others it does.

The main question that needs to be asked is would all of the many hours in the gym be better spent practising? I would presume that pro golfers put so many hours practice in already that they are not neglecting their actual golf game by spending numerous hours doing physical training.

Amateur hackers like us would be better spending 2 hours on our short game than two hours lifting weights if we wish for gains purely in our golf game

Kevinmarkham

ShivasIrons wrote: »

There is so much wrong with this article it's difficult to know where to start but let's look at the title line:

'Obsession with weights overlooks the fact that golf is a mental game'

This shows straight away that the author of the article has no clue. If you are useless at golf and can't swing a club but have an outstanding mental game, guess what, you are useless at golf, no matter how good your thinking you will always be useless.

Golf is a physical game, swinging the club is a physical act, putting is a physical act. The better your physical shape the better your ability to play good golf.

This does not mean you have to be ripped, golf fitness is about the body being able to function properly, it's possible to be overweight and still have a body that functions well.

The author should have tested Angel Cabrera to see what his physical capabilities are. I'm sure he'd find out that he's strong, has speed and moves his body well, all very important for golf. Just because he's a belly doesn't means he's unfit for golf, all it means is that he eats too much.

Why would the paper of record get such an uninformed person to write an article? No research behind it, no knowledge shown and apparently a very closed mind that he can even contemplate that working on fitness might be a good thing.

All I can say is that if Faldo and Azinger feel it necessary to mention it then there must be people in the game who regard this strengthening regime as being overdone.

A couple of years back I was playing against a 14 year old who kept saying Shane Lowry was fat and he needed to lose weight to get better. Personally, I think Shane has done pretty well for himself and, as you point out, Cabrera gets tremendous power from somewhere... and it's not the gym.

I agree with a lot of what the article's author says. Natural talent can be fine-tuned but muscling up guarantees nothing. Would Shane necessarily be a better golfer if he started bench-pressing 350 lbs and lost four stone? Maybe, and maybe not.

ShivasIrons

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

All I can say is that if Faldo and Azinger feel it necessary to mention it then there must be people in the game who regard this strengthening regime as being overdone.

A couple of years back I was playing against a 14 year old who kept saying Shane Lowry was fat and he needed to lose weight to get better. Personally, I think Shane has done pretty well for himself and, as you point out, Cabrera gets tremendous power from somewhere... and it's not the gym.

I agree with a lot of what the article's author says. Natural talent can be fine-tuned but muscling up guarantees nothing. Would Shane necessarily be a better golfer if he started bench-pressing 350 lbs and lost four stone? Maybe, and maybe not.

Shane Lowry is a great example, started working on his fitness in January of last year and had his best year ever. Ask him if he feels it helped his game, he will tell you absolutely.

As for taking opinions from Azinger and Faldo, just because they were good golfers doesn't automatically make them experts on the game, have they studied the swing, bio mechanics, fitness etc. or are they just peddling old wives tales that have no basis?

From listening to Faldo on the TV I don't think he has, I would put little weight in his opinions, they don't sound researched to me.

ForeRight

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

All I can say is that if Faldo and Azinger feel it necessary to mention it then there must be people in the game who regard this strengthening regime as being overdone.

A couple of years back I was playing against a 14 year old who kept saying Shane Lowry was fat and he needed to lose weight to get better. Personally, I think Shane has done pretty well for himself and, as you point out, Cabrera gets tremendous power from somewhere... and it's not the gym.

I agree with a lot of what the article's author says. Natural talent can be fine-tuned but muscling up guarantees nothing. Would Shane necessarily be a better golfer if he started bench-pressing 350 lbs and lost four stone? Maybe, and maybe not.

Lowry went on a training regime and did lose weight and did get better over the past 2 years

Dirty Dingus McGee

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Shane Lowry is a great example, started working on his fitness in January of last year and had his best year ever. Ask him if he feels it helped his game, he will tell you absolutely.

As for taking opinions from Azinger and Faldo, just because they were good golfers doesn't automatically make them experts on the game, have they studied the swing, bio mechanics, fitness etc. or are they just peddling old wives tales that have no basis?

From listening to Faldo on the TV I don't think he has, I would put little weight in his opinions, they don't sound researched to me.

If you only work sitting at a desk all day being physically fit will help.

Dr_Colossus

You only have to look at or talk to Mr. Fitness, aka Gary Player, to realise the benefits of fitness and gym work towards golf and general well being. Mr. Player at now over 80 is a remarkable specimen and advertisement counteracting the article above.

WHIP IT!

A horrific, horrific piece of journalism... I've said it here before and I'll repeat it again - there are no drawbacks to getting stronger.

Tiger's training regime did not cause his injury problems. The term "bulking up" is a misnomer - strength training actually makes you more flexible. Rory et al will also concentrate a lot on mobility work, which helps the body move and behave more efficiently - ie, the way it was intended.

Nobody has ever said you have to be in terrific shape to play good golf. But if you're a professional, with all day and night to dedicate to the game, and you have an almost endless amount of money to employ the best trainers/nutritionists etc - then why wouldn't you, to gain that extra 5% that could make all the difference?

DuckSlice

Better fitness/strength definitly would aid everyone's game in my opinion. Doesn't have to be to the extents that Rory does, which is what the article is based on more or less.

I know if I had more flexibility my game would improve, especially my long game. Having changed from a physical job to now more or less a desk job I can see I have lost distance in my game. But at the same time if ya can't hit the ball out of the centre of the club then all the fitness in the world won't help you its lessons you need!

Kevinmarkham

etxp wrote: »

Better fitness/strength definitly would aid everyone's game in my opinion. Doesn't have to be to the extents that Rory does, which is what the article is based on more or less.

Yea, and I think that's the point. There's no harm in being strong, fit and healthy, but some of the guys are going overboard. Obviously it's an opinion... but it shows up why lengthening courses is a pointless exercise.

What was that stat from one hole yesterday when Day and Rory drove a combined distance of 720+ yards.

WHIP IT!

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yea, and I think that's the point. There's no harm in being strong, fit and healthy, but some of the guys are going overboard. Obviously it's an opinion... but it shows up why lengthening courses is a pointless exercise.

What was that stat from one hole yesterday when Day and Rory drove a combined distance of 720+ yards.

I wonder was it the Par-five where Rory went Driver-7iron and Day went Driver-9iron and both were LONG in two! :eek:

PARlance

Healthier Body, Healthier Mind. I think that was the case with Lowry. He did get fitter but I don't credit his improved form as a direct result of any physical changes. He improved his focus, saw fitness as a part of that, and the fitness regime went to help his mental attitude further.

I can't say I'm a fan of seeing guys lifting crazy weights or being excessive with it. I would class Rory as excessive. But at the end of the day, it is a mental game (moreso than a physical one), and if someone believes they need to be doing all that to improve, then they need to be doing all that.

ShivasIrons

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yea, and I think that's the point. There's no harm in being strong, fit and healthy, but some of the guys are going overboard. Obviously it's an opinion... but it shows up why lengthening courses is a pointless exercise.

What was that stat from one hole yesterday when Day and Rory drove a combined distance of 720+ yards.

How are some guys going overboard?

Kevinmarkham

ShivasIrons wrote: »

How are some guys going overboard?

Does Rory need to be bench pressing 350 lbs - twice his own body weight - to play the game better?

I know people will say he can hit it farther (as if he needs to) and maybe he'll have more energy at the finish... but my favourite golf adage is: you drive for show, you putt for dough

That's why I agree with the author of the article. Whether it's a monthly Medal for you or me, or a Pro playing a Major, tournaments are won and lost around the green... and that is more mental than physical.

WHIP IT!

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Does Rory need to be bench pressing 350 lbs - twice his own body weight - to play the game better?

I know people will say he can hit it farther (as if he needs to) and maybe he'll have more energy at the finish... but my favourite golf adage is: you drive for show, you putt for dough

That's why I agree with the author of the article. Whether it's a monthly Medal for you or me, or a Pro playing a Major, tournaments are won and lost around the green... and that is more mental than physical.

But that makes the assumption that his gym work is 'replacing' part of his short-game work. I can't imagine that's the case at all.

HighLine

Lots of ignorance in that article. I'm sure Mr Player might not agree with the following..

Since every sport has its fashionable trends, golf is hardly unique in its faddishness. But its focus on muscle is as dumb as it is essentially cosmetic.

ShivasIrons

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Does Rory need to be bench pressing 350 lbs - twice his own body weight - to play the game better?

I know people will say he can hit it farther (as if he needs to) and maybe he'll have more energy at the finish... but my favourite golf adage is: you drive for show, you putt for dough

That's why I agree with the author of the article. Whether it's a monthly Medal for you or me, or a Pro playing a Major, tournaments are won and lost around the green... and that is more mental than physical.

How many of the best putters in the world are actually on the PGA Tour? Mark Broadie reckons the figure is probably zero. It's ball striking that gets players on tour. That's not to discount putting, it's important but being a world class putter and not being able to hit the ball out of your shadow won't get you on tour.

When you can move a ball with your mind then golf will be a mental game, as it stands at the moment you need a club to hit the ball and it's a physical action to move that club and hit that ball, for all shots too, putts and chips included.

As golf is a physical game, being in better physical condition can never be a hindrance, tell me what's wrong with being more flexible, stronger, faster and having extra stamina, then you can tell Rory McIlroy to stop working out.

CMOTDibbler

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Does Rory need to be bench pressing 350 lbs - twice his own body weight - to play the game better?

I know people will say he can hit it farther (as if he needs to) and maybe he'll have more energy at the finish... but my favourite golf adage is: you drive for show, you putt for dough

I don't think he's bench pressing that weight. He does a lot of squats up to 100kgs as far as I know and this is aimed at strengthening his lower back where he had problems some years ago.

All the weights he does are either as above or for flexibility. He has some videos of being wired up to a 3d system that maps the muscles he uses in his golf swing and translates that into a workout for them.

ForeRight

Lifting weights doesn't "bulk" anyone up. It will make you lean.
Bodybuilding is done with food consumption with heavy lifting.

Rory doing trx and compound movements such as bench, squat and deadlifting is making his core super strong and making him a very lean, strong and agile man.

He obviously enjoys his training while on tour and fair play to him. Plenty of others probably drink and smoke at night on tour while Rory trains. Each to their own.

Who is anyone to question what a guy at the top of his field on the world stage is doing.

galwaylad14

That's genuinely one of the worst articles I have ever read. The author has no idea what he's talking about.

His sole argument against weight lifting is his (quiet dubious) claim that Tiger's injuries are down to lifting weights. Even if they are, he's just one person. Lifting weights will make him more flexibile and stronger. Both advantages for golf. Someone said earlier that he already hits it far enough, but that's not just what this is about. Because of this weightlifitng he's able to get himself in better positions in the golf swing. He'll be better able to produce consistent swings due to having more strength and being better able to move his body into the correct positions.

As others have said it's not about being in great shape (though Rory is), it's about having strength in the right areas and being able to move the body effectively. If you don't eat right then you'll look more like Lowry than Rory but both are in good condition for making good golf swings.

He mentions Cabrera in the article, big belly and a chain smoker. But look at him swing. Look at the turn he can make, look at his balance, look at his power. At a guess I'd say Cabrera just naturally has that but he is actually in good condition to play golf. He has the strength and the movement.

valoren

Golf is a game that is literally 1.5 seconds of speed, power and precision followed by 10 to 15 minutes of walking to the ball waiting for the next 1.5 seconds of speed, power and precision.

The author should have focused more on this 10/15 minute period as the mental aspect of the game i.e. your mental state after bombing it 300+ yards into the trees/crowd. That's the mental aspect of the game I believe. You have 10/15 minutes thinking time between shots.

It's a case of focusing on what is sexy with the media and players.
Squats, dead lifts, bench pressing et al are considered sexy. That this is beneficial to a golfers conditioning is accepted. Yet stretching and increasing flexibility is also as beneficial.

Yoga, flexibility training and the like is just not sexy. It doesn't sell copy.
So you'll get articles expounding the benefits of benching 300 pounds and little to nothing about the latest golf flexibility stretch for example.

There's a certain masculinity and machismo attached to bombing drives. That same masculinity is not portrayed by the other aspect of the game. The 'finesse' of your wedge game, the 'precision' of your putting, the 'delicacy' required for chipping and 'softness' for pitching. It isn't as sexy. It isn't macho and it doesn't sell as well as "Moar Power!".

Cabrera was mentioned above.

I have seen Cabrera play. I've seen John Daly play. What was the most surprising to me was while their power and length off the tee was simply incredible, it was their short games that blew me away. Their touch was absolutely fantastic. Finesse, delicacy, softness. They had it all.

newport2

The guys on the PGA tour are not "bulked up", They just look it on wide screen TVs. I remember seeing Tiger Woods for the first time in real life and I couldn't believe my eyes. Despite looking so muscular with big biceps on TV, he was like a pencil! They are just really lean and muscular, which is not "bulked-up", undermining the whole premise of the article.

Mantis Toboggan

Didn't read the entire article but I will say that building muscle does not improve flexibility in fact it makes you less flexible.

I do think physical fitness is important in golf but at the same time I think McIlroy over does it lifting those insane weights, I can't see wow that will benefit his game.

Also for the average Joe like 95% of golfers with limited time 50 hours in the range will be much more beneficial that 50 hours lifting weights, imo.

CMOTDibbler

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Didn't read the entire article but I will say that building muscle does not improve flexibility in fact it makes you less flexible.

I do think physical fitness is important in golf but at the same time I think McIlroy over does it lifting those insane weights, I can't see wow that will benefit his game.

Also for the average Joe like 95% of golfers with limited time 50 hours in the range will be much more beneficial that 50 hours lifting weights, imo.

ForeRight explains it very clearly above.

Keano

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Didn't read the entire article but I will say that building muscle does not improve flexibility in fact it makes you less flexible.

I do think physical fitness is important in golf but at the same time I think McIlroy over does it lifting those insane weights, I can't see wow that will benefit his game.

Also for the average Joe like 95% of golfers with limited time 50 hours in the range will be much more beneficial that 50 hours lifting weights, imo.

Don't agree that building muscle makes you less flexible. Do Rory and others not disprove this theory?

WHIP IT!

newport2 wrote: »

The guys on the PGA tour are not "bulked up", They just look it on wide screen TVs. I remember seeing Tiger Woods for the first time in real life and I couldn't believe my eyes. Despite looking so muscular with big biceps on TV, he was like a pencil! They are just really lean and muscular, which is not "bulked-up", undermining the whole premise of the article.

Completely agree. Same goes for the "portly" types. About 3 years ago I literally walked past Shane Lowry at Carton House, walking in the opposite direction, and didn't recognise him. He looks "very heavy" to me on TV, but he's actually just "somewhat heavy". I couldn't believe it was him to be honest.

Camera adds 10 pounds and all that, etc etc...

CMOTDibbler

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Completely agree. Same goes for the "portly" types. About 3 years ago I literally walked past Shane Lowry at Carton House, walking in the opposite direction, and didn't recognise him. He looks "very heavy" to me on TV, but he's actually just "somewhat heavy". I couldn't believe it was him to be honest.

Camera adds 10 pounds and all that, etc etc...

And there are a lot of cameras on him at the tournaments

Dr Devious

The pros and the good amateurs ALL hit it a country mile, and they're all fairly comfortable too with an iron from around 200 yards to the green. Getting it down the hole from 30 yards or less is can be more of a issue for most of them. They are loads guys who smash it 300 yards+ and then collapse near the hole. Dustin Johnson, Quiros, Westwood, Colsaerts, etc. On the other side they are guys who aren't long at all but who get the job given an opportunity because they have great belief in themselves, GMac being the obvious, Jimenez, Donald, etc. Of course the mindset has a big part in golf, you have it or you don't, its easier to coach a guy to bomb it down the fairway than to teach him how to close the deal when he mentally in turmoil. How many times have we seen people implode on the course when under pressure. I'd gladly be deadly from 30 yards in that 300 yards out any day. Mental attitude is a big factor in seperating the good from the great.