Poor quality of rental properties in Ireland..

Elemonator

My family are own dozens of rental properties. I'm sure you are a decent old stick OP but from what I've seen, landlords won't invest huge sums in making a house a palace. They will go for functional and liveable. I know for a fact all our family owned properties are well kept and are modern. We have always been there for the tenant but I would say 60pc of the tenants never had any respect for the property. Problems we have come across in the past are:

-Mould growing under kitchen appliances
- They had huge house parties and there was spilt drink over the suite, carpet and kitchen chairs.
- They never cleaned up after dinner, everything had to be steam cleaned.
- A few tenants had extra people staying there and that was not agreed upon.
- Tenants have also had dogs that created a further mess.
- One of them p***** a mattress and damaged the front door drunkenly trying to get back in, and still tried to claim his deposit back.
- Beds have been smashed and mattresses robbed.

All the above is the stories for just 3 houses. After one particular occupant moved out, I think about 20,000 euros was spent redoing the small house that it was. I know the vast majority of tenants are good people saving for a deposit or looking for a temporary solution but do keep these things in mind.

Sleeper12

Pawwed Rig wrote:

Is it really surprising that someone would want nice stuff in their house? Are tenants not able to buy nice stuff too if they desire it? Or are you seriously suggesting that a rental house should be decorated with the best decor that a landlord can afford??

I am saying that a lot of landlords cry poverty to me when I am at their rental properties. When I am in their homes they want the best of everything. We have a lot of slumlords in Dublin.
I replaced a broken 15 year old shower a few months back. The female foreign Tennant never left the bathroom the whole time I was there. Beautiful girl in her late 20s & I wasn't fooling myself that she wanted to chat to me twice her age. It was a bit strange her staying there Is what I'm saying.
Anyway job done I pack the old shower, hose, pole & head into the box from the new shower. She said I can leave the old shower. I say that if she wants I'll take it away for recycling. She says that the reason she never left the bathroom was because her landlord wouldn't repair or replace the broken shower. She was watching how to change the shower because she intended to put the old broken shower back when she was leaving & try sell the newer one. She handed 300 of her own money to me so she could have a hot shower.
The big problem with rental property in Ireland is that you have individual landlords owning a few properties. Many attempt to do repairs themselves ofter quite badly. In other countries you have big companies owning thousands of properties. This then run like a proper business. Properties are properly maintained & none of this rubbish of you'll have to move out my daughter is moving in.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In other countries you have big companies owning thousands of properties. This then run like a proper business. Properties are properly maintained & none of this rubbish of you'll have to move out my daughter is moving in.

Big companies owning all the housing stock is far far from the great thing some people appear to believe. There will be no paying under market rate for "good tenants, there will be no second chances with late rent, rent increases will happen as regularly as allowed, they are they purely to make profit they will care even less about tenants than a LL owning just one property.

Just look at the news over the last while in both cork and dublin rented house owned by big companies are in the spot light for giving notice to all people in the complexes.

I think the system here where you deal with the LL when you want something and he only owns one or maybe a few properties is a far better and more personal way for renting, a few bad LLs shouldn't be a reason to change everything.

beauf

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Germany, being the best mainland example of a rental market, has good rent control regulation in place - lets start there.

Germany has the same problem of rising rents. Which is why they tried rent control.

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2016/02/berlin-rent-control-cbre-report/458700/

defrule

If you consider how student halls work, granted the rooms are small but that is not the point. They are owned and managed by the university and kept in good condition and repairs are done properly as they are contracted out. You are unlikely to move into a student hall with faulty wiring, dodgy water pipes or mould on walls.

The same principle could work for apartments but there needs to be a lot apartments and plenty of companies competing for tenants, like hotels.

beauf

Last time I looked student halls were among some of the most expensive accommodation for students.

Speedwell

beauf wrote: »

Last time I looked student halls were among some of the most expensive accommodation for students.

Where I went to school the price included a meal hall ticket and all bills paid. Yes, granted, the price per unit of floor space was astronomical.

The Randy Riverbeast

beauf wrote: »

Last time I looked student halls were among some of the most expensive accommodation for students.

Student accommodation tends to provide everything. All you need is to feed yourself. They also have security which I cant imagine being cheap.

Pawwed Rig

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am saying that a lot of landlords cry poverty to me when I am at their rental properties. When I am in their homes they want the best of everything.

That is just treating the rental as a business though which seems to be what you want. Where the business (ie the property) has excess profit it could be reinvested into said property. It would make very little economic sense for a landlord to keep ploughing external money into the property. A landlord should provide the minimium. If the tenant want the best stuff then they should buy it themselves.

Speedwell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

(I)f the tenant(s) want the best stuff then they should buy it themselves.

Oh, sure I agree. I would rather rent a place unfurnished except for major appliances, like I did when I lived in America. But if you rent an apartment furnished, you ought not to be obliged to furnish it yourself just because the landlord thinks half-destroyed shameful trash is good enough for the likes of you.

newacc2015

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am saying that a lot of landlords cry poverty to me when I am at their rental properties. When I am in their homes they want the best of everything. We have a lot of slumlords in Dublin.
I replaced a broken 15 year old shower a few months back.

Im sorry, but I totally disagree with you. You might be dealing with a handful of bad landlords. If you only dealt with houses on the NCR in Dublin. You would think all rental accommodation was slum like. Yet if you only dealt with housing in the IFSC or Sandyford, you would think all rental accommodation was incredible. You may have observational bias

Do you know how much is in your clients bank accounts? They probably are losing money on their rental properties, as a lot of landlords actually are. What is wrong with a landlord wanting to spend more money on the house in lives in and looks after (unlike a lot of tenants who dont respect their landlords properties)? If a client asked you for a toilet bowl and sink. Would you buy the €69 set or the €300 set? I imagine you would more likely buy the €69 set for a client and the more expensive set for your own home

Do you not think a shower can last 15 years? I have plenty of neighbours with Miras from the 1980s/1990s still going strong. Should they replace them for the sake of replacing them like you are basically suggesting?

Sleeper12

Pawwed Rig wrote:

That is just treating the rental as a business though which seems to be what you want. Where the business (ie the property) has excess profit it could be reinvested into said property. It would make very little economic sense for a landlord to keep ploughing external money into the property. A landlord should provide the minimium. If the tenant want the best stuff then they should buy it themselves.

You see its this mentally that proves small landlords for the most part very bad for the rental sector.
If it is to be run as a proper business then if the landlord can't make money from it then he/ she should sell their failed business. Being in negative equity and being behind on your mortgage is not the fault of the tenant and is not a valid excuse not to maintain the property. My point for the third time is the landlord that cries poverty when it comes to basic repairs and maintenance of the rental property and then want me to provide top of the range appliances for their own homes are slumlords. Believe it or not your duty as a landlord is to provide proper repair and maintenance to the rental property even if it means your own home has to do without. Even if it means that you can't keep your own home to the same standard. Even if your own home is falling apart.

To know if your rental property is up to standard I would suggest that landlords ask themselves would I like to live. Would my wife like living here. Would I be happy with my own mother living here. If you can honestly answer yes to all the above then you are probably doing things right. If you answered no then you are doing something wrong. Tenants should not have to replace an electric shower. A rental house should not have years worth of grass growing out of the gutters.

KomradeBishop

newacc2015 wrote: »

Im sorry, but I totally disagree with you. You might be dealing with a handful of bad landlords. If you only dealt with houses on the NCR in Dublin. You would think all rental accommodation was slum like. Yet if you only dealt with housing in the IFSC or Sandyford, you would think all rental accommodation was incredible. You may have observational bias

Do you know how much is in your clients bank accounts? They probably are losing money on their rental properties, as a lot of landlords actually are. What is wrong with a landlord wanting to spend more money on the house in lives in and looks after (unlike a lot of tenants who dont respect their landlords properties)? If a client asked you for a toilet bowl and sink. Would you buy the €69 set or the €300 set? I imagine you would more likely buy the €69 set for a client and the more expensive set for your own home

Do you not think a shower can last 15 years? I have plenty of neighbours with Miras from the 1980s/1990s still going strong. Should they replace them for the sake of replacing them like you are basically suggesting?

Any citation showing landlords losing money in rental properties? (and not counting misleading things such as mortgage repayments)

tea_addict

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You see its this mentally that proves small landlords for the most part very bad for the rental sector.
If it is to be run as a proper business then if the landlord can't make money from it then he/ she should sell their failed business. Being in negative equity and being behind on your mortgage is not the fault of the tenant and is not a valid excuse not to maintain the property. My point for the third time is the landlord that cries poverty when it comes to basic repairs and maintenance of the rental property and then want me to provide top of the range appliances for their own homes are slumlords. Believe it or not your duty as a landlord is to provide proper repair and maintenance to the rental property even if it means your own home has to do without. Even if it means that you can't keep your own home to the same standard. Even if your own home is falling apart.

To know if your rental property is up to standard I would suggest that landlords ask themselves would I like to live. Would my wife like living here. Would I be happy with my own mother living here. If you can honestly answer yes to all the above then you are probably doing things right. If you answered no then you are doing something wrong. Tenants should not have to replace an electric shower. A rental house should not have years worth of grass growing out of the gutters.

there are no real consequences for delinquent tenants in this country , the irish mindset is for the most part one of thinking its ok to not pay people for certain things and accommodation is one of them unfortunately

germany is often held up as a paradigm of the ideal when it comes to renters rights , try not paying rent in germany and see how long you get to remain on

the received wisdom in this country is that tenants have no rights , as usual the reality is often very different ,just because the area is grey and without the slightest proper legal framework does not mean tenants are in a bob cratchet situation

beauf

Speedwell wrote: »

Oh, sure I agree. I would rather rent a place unfurnished except for major appliances, like I did when I lived in America. But if you rent an apartment furnished, you ought not to be obliged to furnish it yourself just because the landlord thinks half-destroyed shameful trash is good enough for the likes of you.

If you're not happy with the furniture. Don't rent the property. If there's nothing affordable with furniture to the standard you want. Then perhaps it's not economical to do so.

Speedwell

beauf wrote: »

If you're not happy with the furniture. Don't rent the property. If there's nothing affordable with furniture to the standard you want. Then perhaps it's not economical to do so.

If the landlord is going to treat their property with contempt and me with contempt, then I will be happy to oblige them by treating the landlord with contempt as well.

tea_addict

Speedwell wrote: »

If the landlord is going to treat their property with contempt and me with contempt, then I will be happy to oblige them by treating the landlord with contempt as well.

you sound like a charming tenant , someone will draw the short straw and end up with you

beauf

Speedwell wrote: »

If the landlord is going to treat their property with contempt and me with contempt, then I will be happy to oblige them by treating the landlord with contempt as well.

You could better do that by providing higher quality rental accommodation, at cheaper price than that LL and putting them out of business.

beauf

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Any citation showing landlords losing money in rental properties? (and not counting misleading things such as mortgage repayments)

are more people becoming LL or are they leaving the market.

Speedwell

tea_addict wrote: »

you sound like a charming tenant , someone will draw the short straw and end up with you

From what I understand, landlords prefer tenants who take care of their property, pay on time, and are good neighbors to the people who live near them. No landlord has had any reason to complain about me in twenty years. Renting is a business, and I refuse to do business with people who treat me with contempt.

Speedwell

beauf wrote: »

You could better do that by providing higher quality rental accommodation, at cheaper price than that LL and putting them out of business.

You first, moneybags.

beauf

Sleeper12 wrote: »

....The big problem with rental property in Ireland is that you have individual landlords owning a few properties. ....In other countries you have big companies owning thousands of properties. This then run like a proper business. ....

That happens here too. They see that they make more money selling the properties than renting them. Thus reducing the supply of properties for rental even further.

There are huge problems of supply in other capital cities aswell. Its not unique to Ireland.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/rent-cap-legislation-in-force-berlin-germany

beauf

Speedwell wrote: »

You first, moneybags.

Its logical too assume then, you don't think its a viable business either.

Speedwell

beauf wrote: »

Its logical too assume then, you don't think its a viable business either.

It's logical for you to assume that I'm renting because renting makes sense for me, and home ownership does not. The issue isn't lack of cash, though I prefer to keep that cash parked in my retirement account where it is drawing interest, thanks.

The issue is not whether I think I can do it better, but whether my landlord can do it adequately.

beauf

Your personal living arrangements are irrelevant.

You just keep confirming you think its madness to be a LL. Its better leaving money somewhere else.

Speedwell

beauf wrote: »

Your personal living arrangements are irrelevant.

You just keep confirming you think its madness to be a LL. Its better leaving money somewhere else.

I'm a tenant. The business arrangements of landlords are their business. If home ownership made sense for me in my situation, I would buy a house. If being a landlord made sense for me, I would be a landlord. Since renting makes sense for me, I am a tenant. My living arrangements are irrelevant to your argument, I agree; I am not arguing your argument and have no intention of engaging with you about whether being a landlord does, on the whole, make sense or not. Clearly plenty of people are managing to make it make sense for them. I am making my business arrangements with my landlord make sense for both me and my landlord.

beauf

In fairness the Govt thought the same so they outsourced it. Seems like no one wants to be a LL.

Gator88

I've been a landlord with several properties for over 30 years and even I have to say we need much more regulation. The standard of a lot of rented accommodation is absolutely terrible. If you are getting good money in rent its simply not good enough to send down cast off furniture and appliances from the big house. I've plenty of friends think it is ok but its not the right way to do things. Treat your tenants badly and you'll have bad tenants.
Some people should not be in the business plain and simple. Tenants should be treated with dignity and respect. I can see from the general tone of the comments here that many look down on their tenants. Some of the comments here are down right shameful. It is pure snobbery to suggest that all bad landlords have property on the scr but not in other areas.

beauf

Long term tenants in my experience tend to want their own furniture. That seems to work out better for everyone.

Landlord supplying furniture almost never works out because no two tenants want the same furniture. (one wants a double the next wants two singles the next want it as a study with no bed etc).

Then it gets damaged a lot, and after its been all replaced for the nth time, the LL just stops spending any money on it. Because its not economical to do so.

Its probably why unfurnished is so popular in other countries. You get a new painted rental. You give it back newly painted. No furniture. No arguments about the furniture.

beauf

Speedwell wrote: »

I'm a tenant. The business arrangements of landlords are their business. ....Clearly plenty of people are managing to make it make sense for them. ...

The figures suggest otherwise.

There were just 3,600 properties available to rent nationwide at the beginning of February, the lowest point on record. ...That compares to over 5,200 a year ago and almost 16,000 five years ago.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0209/766511-daft-ie-rental-report/