Poor quality of rental properties in Ireland..

beauf

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Actually no, that doesn't agree with you at all - AirBnb is effectively a 'grey' market, a market where the rentals are more profitable because they sidestep regulations, that would otherwise make such rentals illegal.

That is not a sign of an unprofitable rental market - it's a sign of an unregulated/should-be-illegal market, being more profitable.

That whats I said and you're still agreeing with me. It more attractive for LL to move to other markets.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

That's false logic - the existence of this thread, doesn't prove that anything is uneconomical for landlords - as there are plenty of other potential explanations for poor rental quality, which have been discussed throughout the thread.Where are costs going to go, that makes rental income unprofitable exactly? You can't count mortgage payments in this btw.

If it made economic sense to put in expensive furniture, for example it increased profitability then they would do it.

There was a time when LL would struggle to get tenants unless a property was made more attractive. Laminate floors and leather couches were almost de facto standard.

beauf

KomradeBishop wrote: »

No, you're saying the market is demanding high rents, because of the previously low rents pre-crisis - and that somehow it is 'averaging out' - you have no backing for this, it is an argument which makes no economic sense.

It basically make hay while the sun shines.

KomradeBishop

beauf wrote: »

That whats I said and you're still agreeing with me. It more attractive for LL to move to other markets.



If it made economic sense to put in expensive furniture, for example it increased profitability then they would do it.

There was a time when LL would struggle to get tenants unless a property was made more attractive. Laminate floors and leather couches were almost de facto standard.

That's an argument for closing the grey/should-be-illegal alternative market though - not an argument for making the primary rental market more 'attractive' i.e. lucrative for landlords.

No way in hell, should the main rental market be adopting, to accommodate the AirBnB short-term-rental type profits market.

On the latter: That is no excuse for the low standards in quality - an argument that amounts to "because they can get away with it" is no excuse - quality must be kept at a good standard, and if landlords wont voluntarily keep it like this, it needs to be enforced through regulation.

KomradeBishop

beauf wrote: »

It basically make hay while the sun shines.

Ya the rents are being jacked up, "because they can" basically - it has nothing to do with prior periods of low rent.

Macha

Macha wrote: »

Thanks for that, good to see it's come down. Gives me hope.
.

Surely it's seen (or should be anyway) as a bad thing, people should aspire to own their own home not to be stuck in long term renting.

Macha

Valentina Unimportant Food wrote: »

Surely it's seen (or should be anyway) as a bad thing, people should aspire to own their own home not to be stuck in long term renting.

What's wrong with long-term renting?

This is part of the attitude towards renting that has resulted in such poor quality rental properties in Ireland. Nobody wants to rent and only people who have to like poor people or students do it so why make a property nice?

As long it's possible to have security of tenure, a nice range of good quality rental properties in good locations to choose from and the right within reason to furnish and alter the place to suit various tastes, why not rent long term? Unfortunately, these conditions don't exist in Ireland.

Boater123

Boater123 wrote: »

And some could argue that outside intervention is the reason why Ireland's property market and especially the rental market, are in a state disequilibrium.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Yea well where are they? I'd like to see someone try and argue that here, and watch while other posters tear such shoddy arguments apart.

Boater123 wrote: »

Well go ahead then.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

I don't see any arguments here matching what you claim - there have pretty roundly (even among landlords) been calls for increased regulation.

Coming back to this mein Komarade, (good deflection with airbnb BTW) if you genuinely saying that the amount of steps successive governments have taken over the rental and property markets through legislation, have had no effect on the current rental situation, then how can you expect to be taken seriously??

I know I can't take your arguments seriously.

You can't even see how contradictory your arguments are or how some of the points you are making on other peoples posts in an effort to counter their argument, actually support them.

The idiom involving a horse and water comes to mind.

You said "others" could tear such arguments apart yet say at the same time say more regulation is needed so as to effect change in the markets.

I also tried to bring the thread back to the OP, but am guilty of being led up the garden path with thread drift. (not as guilty as you though)

Start a thread on AIr BNB being illegal, and How past regulation/ legislation has in no way influenced the current situation, and I'll see you there

Oh and one on the fact that the Irish rental will not try to behave like a free market (despite outside influences) and doesn't react to supply and demand, which is not the reason for differentiating rents over time.

Yeah that should cover it.

beauf

Speedwell wrote: »

If I ran a restaurant, ....

In other industries, people are required to provide healthful and decent products that work. Other industries prosper under those conditions. It might be instructive for the rental property industry in this country to consider this.

They'd certain want to consider the high failure rate of restaurants.

Boater123

Macha wrote: »

What's wrong with long-term renting?

As long it's possible to have security of tenure, a nice range of good quality rental properties in good locations to choose from and the right within reason to furnish and alter the place to suit various tastes, why not rent long term? Unfortunately, these conditions don't exist in Ireland.

I agree, nothing wrong with long term renting in the manner you suggest. In some ways it makes perfect sense, and would suit a lot of people, both Landlords and tenants.

It is a shame that these conditions don't exist over here.

I'm sure that if it was easier for LL's to remove the infrequent bad tenant and had decent recourse through the legal system when dealing with them, then things would change.

beauf

I don't think anyone has a problem increased regulation, and quality. It all prevents disputes. It will increase costs. No issue there either. It will reduce supply even further.

Macha

Macha wrote: »

What's wrong with long-term renting?

This is part of the attitude towards renting that has resulted in such poor quality rental properties in Ireland. Nobody wants to rent and only people who have to like poor people or students do it so why make a property nice?

As long it's possible to have security of tenure, a nice range of good quality rental properties in good locations to choose from and the right within reason to furnish and alter the place to suit various tastes, why not rent long term? Unfortunately, these conditions don't exist in Ireland.

It's a waste of money and leaves you with nothing to show for your money. Also noting to pass on to you kids.

Renting makes sense for short time (less than 5 years say) periods, people that are not setting in an area for long. Outside of this if you can afford it buying is a much better option. Of course not everyone can afford to buy but these people are very likely to not be able to afford high quality rentals either.

Boater123

Valentina Unimportant Food wrote: »

It's a waste of money and leaves you with nothing to show for your money. Also noting to pass on to you kids.

Renting makes sense for short time (less than 5 years say) periods, people that are not setting in an area for long. Outside of this if you can afford it buying is a much better option. Of course not everyone can afford to buy but these people are very likely to not be able to afford high quality rentals either.

Aye some people have that opinion and nothing wrong with it. I own my own property, long term rental would not suit me personally.

Others see it as a better option for reasons that suit them.

They don't have property taxes, maintenance costs, appliance replacement, freedom to move without estate agents and solicitors fee's, interest on mortgage repayments, interest rate uncertainty, the worry of property crashes and negative equity, inheritance taxes.

In some European countries, especially in the cities where the initial cost of property is high (like Dublin), it can work out cheaper to rent.

Macha

Boater123 wrote: »

I'm sure that if it was easier for LL's to remove the infrequent bad tenant and had decent recourse through the legal system when dealing with them, then things would change.

Well, I think both must be protected. I've had nightmare landlords in Dublin. And my parents are landlords so I've heard the horror stories from both sides. The whole sector needs better regulation but it's not like we have to reinvent the wheel. The next government just needs to look at what's done in various other countries and adapt for Ireland.

Valentina Unimportant Food wrote: »

It's a waste of money and leaves you with nothing to show for your money. Also noting to pass on to you kids.

Renting makes sense for short time (less than 5 years say) periods, people that are not setting in an area for long. Outside of this if you can afford it buying is a much better option. Of course not everyone can afford to buy but these people are very likely to not be able to afford high quality rentals either.

I'd just have to echo what Boater123 says. There are a lot of costs involved in owning that don't occur when renting.

And even when you do buy, it's no guarantee to leave anything to your kids as the property may have to be sold off to pay for nursing home costs. I'd rather my parents enjoy the money they worked hard for than worry about me. I'll make my own way in the world.

Sure, buy if you want to but it shouldn't be so hard to be a long-term renter.

KomradeBishop

Boater123 wrote: »

Coming back to this mein Komarade, (good deflection with airbnb BTW) if you genuinely saying that the amount of steps successive governments have taken over the rental and property markets through legislation, have had no effect on the current rental situation, then how can you expect to be taken seriously??

I know I can't take your arguments seriously.

You can't even see how contradictory your arguments are or how some of the points you are making on other peoples posts in an effort to counter their argument, actually support them.

The idiom involving a horse and water comes to mind.

You said "others" could tear such arguments apart yet say at the same time say more regulation is needed so as to effect change in the markets.

I also tried to bring the thread back to the OP, but am guilty of being led up the garden path with thread drift. (not as guilty as you though)

Start a thread on AIr BNB being illegal, and How past regulation/ legislation has in no way influenced the current situation, and I'll see you there

Oh and one on the fact that the Irish rental will not try to behave like a free market (despite outside influences) and doesn't react to supply and demand, which is not the reason for differentiating rents over time.

Yeah that should cover it.

From what I can see, people are arguing that a lack, not an excess, of outside intervention is the problem here.

Where are the arguments otherwise?

The_Conductor

Guys- as the thread has become so completely derailed from its stated subject- closing it, while the moderators decide on a course of action. It is not appropriate to redirect/repurpose threads- as has happened here.