Cars are getting way too technical

bimble

Its not that long ago when you could fix a car yourself with a few spanners a screw driver and a basic socket set.
But to see what they are putting into cars now is just insane, and where will it stop.
Cars that park themselves, if you cannot park a car you should not be driving in the first place
Stop and start at traffic lights, where the money you saved on fuel goes to pay for twice as many starter motors
Then there's the cars that stay a certain distance from the car in front again, basic driving skills, that the driver should be capable of. what happen if the owner of a car with this tech has to drive a car or van without these aids, they have become reliant on, it would be carnage
While safety should always come 1st we are headed to the day when the driver will be a thing of the past
Then there's the fact that I don't want a car full of tech, power steering and central locking is as high tech as I want. 10 or 20 years from now will we be able to buy a car you drive yourself
Not to mention the fact that with all this tech, cars are no more reliable than they were in the early 90s
Now cars have to be hooked up to a computer which from my experience tell the technician absolutely nothing so end up change several parts until the problem is solved so it ends up costing more. Bring back the simple cars with simple mechanics and simple to fix, that we drive ourselves

Eric Cartman

all the new tech is to stop bad drivers driving badly , which is a good thing. Most of it replaces human observational skills, which sadly are lacking in a lot of motorists.

A lot of it can be turned off. Also despite the onset of most of this tech, A decent diagnostic system / brand configuration software is really the only major new tool in the box. These tools are accessible to enthusiasts and even make it easier (when combined with the internet) to diagnose faults like rough running or whats making a car run lean / rich.

Atlantic Dawn

Some systems are but then you have the benefits of the ODB connection where it will tell you where the issue is rather than having to examine almost every area of an engine or electrical system to diagnose.

CiniO

bimble wrote: »

Its not that long ago when you could fix a car yourself with a few spanners a screw driver and a basic socket set.
But to see what they are putting into cars now is just insane, and where will it stop.
Cars that park themselves, if you cannot park a car you should not be driving in the first place
Stop and start at traffic lights, where the money you saved on fuel goes to pay for twice as many starter motors
Then there's the cars that stay a certain distance from the car in front again, basic driving skills, that the driver should be capable of. what happen if the owner of a car with this tech has to drive a car or van without these aids, they have become reliant on, it would be carnage
While safety should always come 1st we are headed to the day when the driver will be a thing of the past
Then there's the fact that I don't want a car full of tech, power steering and central locking is as high tech as I want. 10 or 20 years from now will we be able to buy a car you drive yourself
Not to mention the fact that with all this tech, cars are no more reliable than they were in the early 90s
Now cars have to be hooked up to a computer which from my experience tell the technician absolutely nothing so end up change several parts until the problem is solved so it ends up costing more. Bring back the simple cars with simple mechanics and simple to fix, that we drive ourselves

If everyone thinked like you, we'd still be in stone age.

And don't worry - with selfdriving cars, those who want to drive, will still do.

Del2005

bimble wrote: »

Its not that long ago when you could fix a car yourself with a few spanners a screw driver and a basic socket set.
But to see what they are putting into cars now is just insane, and where will it stop.
Cars that park themselves, if you cannot park a car you should not be driving in the first place
Stop and start at traffic lights, where the money you saved on fuel goes to pay for twice as many starter motors
Then there's the cars that stay a certain distance from the car in front again, basic driving skills, that the driver should be capable of. what happen if the owner of a car with this tech has to drive a car or van without these aids, they have become reliant on, it would be carnage
While safety should always come 1st we are headed to the day when the driver will be a thing of the past
Then there's the fact that I don't want a car full of tech, power steering and central locking is as high tech as I want. 10 or 20 years from now will we be able to buy a car you drive yourself
Not to mention the fact that with all this tech, cars are no more reliable than they were in the early 90s
Now cars have to be hooked up to a computer which from my experience tell the technician absolutely nothing so end up change several parts until the problem is solved so it ends up costing more. Bring back the simple cars with simple mechanics and simple to fix, that we drive ourselves

Stop start cars don't start from the starter, they use different tech.

They are bringing back simple cars. EVs only have one moving part! The rest of a car can still be fixed with a vice grips and lump hammer.

I'd say that there's maybe a decade left for cars, and car ownership, as we currently know them. By then there'll be no controls inside and you will order up a car like getting a taxi now.

colm_mcm

Stop start cars mostly use the starter, hybrids tend to use the traction motor to start the engine, but in most cases it's just a normal, if upgraded starter motor.

grogi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Stop start cars mostly use the starter, hybrids tend to use the traction motor to start the engine, but in most cases it's just a normal, if upgraded starter motor.

Psa is using a reversible alternator

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

I'd say that there's maybe a decade left for cars, and car ownership, as we currently know them. By then there'll be no controls inside and you will order up a car like getting a taxi now.

Even if such cars will exist on a market, I'd say it's going to me way more then 10 years, and even once this happens, it's going to be niche market - as most people will still go for option of car they can actually drive.

bazz26

Cianos

CiniO wrote: »

Even if such cars will exist on a market, I'd say it's going to me way more then 10 years, and even once this happens, it's going to be niche market - as most people will still go for option of car they can actually drive.

I'd say a very large % of people would go for driverless cars if given the choice, once it breaks past the pioneer niche that is. Safety will be the biggest concern of course - in that people will not trust the computer, but the numbers will eventually prove that driverless cars are much safer than human driving.

Google's driverless cars have already beaten all safety expectations by a long shot and the tech is just going to get better.

I'd hazard a guess that in 20-30 years driving a car on public roads will start to be seen as a reckless and irresponsible thing to do much the same way as drink driving is now.

vectra

bimble wrote: »

Its not that long ago when you could fix a car yourself with a few spanners a screw driver and a basic socket set.
But to see what they are putting into cars now is just insane, and where will it stop.
Cars that park themselves, if you cannot park a car you should not be driving in the first place
Stop and start at traffic lights, where the money you saved on fuel goes to pay for twice as many starter motors
Then there's the cars that stay a certain distance from the car in front again, basic driving skills, that the driver should be capable of. what happen if the owner of a car with this tech has to drive a car or van without these aids, they have become reliant on, it would be carnage
While safety should always come 1st we are headed to the day when the driver will be a thing of the past
Then there's the fact that I don't want a car full of tech, power steering and central locking is as high tech as I want. 10 or 20 years from now will we be able to buy a car you drive yourself
Not to mention the fact that with all this tech, cars are no more reliable than they were in the early 90s
Now cars have to be hooked up to a computer which from my experience tell the technician absolutely nothing so end up change several parts until the problem is solved so it ends up costing more. Bring back the simple cars with simple mechanics and simple to fix, that we drive ourselves

I suppose you don't use a smartphone either?
Watch tv from an antenna possibly?
Pullout the paper map on a journey instead of having satnav?

Etc. Etc,,

Voodoomelon

Some interesting new tech out there. The new E-Class can lock and unlock the car via your smartphone, you don't even need to order a key. You can even send authorisation to a family member's phone at home for example if you're abroad, so they can access the car.

I think the real innovations will be non-motoring related items, like a hugely detailed HUD that fills the windscreen, with intelligent and dynamic icons, speed limits, directions etc that overlay what you see outside. Like the road ahead lighting up with arrows or waypaths, or an arrow off in the distance pointing at your destination, etc.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Even if such cars will exist on a market, I'd say it's going to me way more then 10 years, and even once this happens, it's going to be niche market - as most people will still go for option of car they can actually drive.

With the speed of technical improvement it'll be quicker than you think. The vast majority of people see driving as a chore and since most cars by then will be EV there'll be very little driving fun for the enthusists. The real killer of human driving will be insurance as humans are the biggest cause of crashes so to physically control a vehicle you'll have to pay a huge premium, along with the fact that tracking technology (which is voluntary for now ) will take the last bit of fun out of driving.

eeguy

CiniO wrote: »

Even if such cars will exist on a market, I'd say it's going to me way more then 10 years, and even once this happens, it's going to be niche market - as most people will still go for option of car they can actually drive.

Take 15 minutes of your life to watch this video. Really eye opening
https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_sees_the_road?language=en

grogi

Cianos wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that in 20-30 years driving a car on public roads will start to be seen as a reckless and irresponsible thing to do much the same way as drink driving is now.

It will be reserved to the most eccentric millionaires out there. The insurance premiums for human driving will be astronomical and only those crazy from the richest will be able to afford that.

Jayop

ABS, Traction control, Auto Braking etc. These are life saving technologies that only an imbecile wouldn't embrace. Stop Start I have no issue with because the car is fitted with an upgraded starter so it's not going to want replacing twice as often.

You can still do 90% of what the amateur mechanic would have done anyway, servicing, brakes etc.

sandra06

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

Jayop

sandra06 wrote: »

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

Aye but the car from years ago is about 20 times more likely to end up in the ditch in snow, ice or wet roads.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

With the speed of technical improvement it'll be quicker than you think.

Maybe, I'm not going to argue about that, but I just don't see it widely available within next 10 years.
Maybe 30...

The vast majority of people see driving as a chore

I don't think so.
There's surely a good bit of population which indeed don't like to drive, but I'd say majority of people like to drive, and wouldn't choose self driving car.

and since most cars by then will be EV there'll be very little driving fun for the enthusists.

Why do you think driving EV might not be fun?
I find drive anything to be fun - doesn't need to be combustion engine, provided it's fast

The real killer of human driving will be insurance as humans are the biggest cause of crashes so to physically control a vehicle you'll have to pay a huge premium,

Don't think so.
In vast majority of the world insurance cost currently in negligible (even though it's humans driving now), so I don't see the reason why it should change in the future.
Ireland is bit different, where insurance cost is silly high, but world doesn't start and doesn't end within Ireland.

along with the fact that tracking technology (which is voluntary for now ) will take the last bit of fun out of driving.

People won't let that happen.

CiniO

sandra06 wrote: »

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

You could fix it with a hammer then, if you had a right hammer - if you didn't you wouldn't be able to fix it.

Exactly same as now - garage couldn't program the new sensor (whatever you mean by that) because they didn't have right equipment to do it.
Just change the garage for one which will be able to fix basic stuff.

wonski

sandra06 wrote: »

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

To be fair abs is not high tech. It is pretty standard feature on cars for 15-20 years now

I drove some old cars and let's just say I prefer modern stuff.

Mourinho

I've said it before and will say it again, the drawback to these cars is the fact they are electric.

They will only be useful if and when electronic charging ports are as common as petrol stations and can charge a battery fully in say 5-10 minutes at worst.

What good is a self driving car if you run out of a charge outside of a large city or a person has to sit in their car at a station for an hour waiting on it to charge?

A self driving petrol/diesel might have a chance at moment. Another thing to remember is they will likely have to retain manual controls by law. California I think have or at least are looking at manual controls having to be retained in any self driving car.

sandra06

CiniO wrote: »

You could fix it with a hammer then, if you had a right hammer - if you didn't you wouldn't be able to fix it.

Exactly same as now - garage couldn't program the new sensor (whatever you mean by that) because they didn't have right equipment to do it.
Just change the garage for one which will be able to fix basic stuff.

the car has to go on a comp to be reprogrammed ,,the garage that ordered the sensor told her they could do it think they were chancing there arm

Markcheese

Its one of those " where does it stop" things, i've 2 diesels in with different mechanics at the moment , and both of them flat out ... a lot of diesel fuel system problems and a lot of general electronic faults...
I think most electronics are there to sell new cars ( thats what car companies do ) ,and is great as long as you change in 5 to 7 years...
Who really wants stop start, electric hand brake, electric seats, electric rear windows, even heated seats, climate control ect but they're nice gadgets and if you're offered them you'd have them.
( met my mam on the road yesterday and she wound down the rear window of her car to chat to me cos she pressed the wrong switch )

sandra06

Jayop wrote: »

Aye but the car from years ago is about 20 times more likely to end up in the ditch in snow, ice or wet roads.

true ,,i had a old bmw 2001 and i would not drive it in ice or snow it was like jelly on the road

kirving

Cars are becoming more complex, or course, but in 99% of cases, the technology is fantastic.

Who in God's name wants to be adjusting points or carbs or spark plug gap or any of that crap on their daily driver?

The last oil and filter service on my car cost me a grand total of €46 for parts, and I could do it myself with a few simple tools, and that would be considered a new-ish car.

Yeah my clutch change was a much bigger job than it would have been 20 years ago, but it lasted 100 thousand miles when my dad used to have to change his every 30k.

Stability control has saved me from wrapping the car around a tree in the snow.

I diagnosed an intermittent issue with the air-con causing someones car to misfire via the DTC code given on the dashboard.

My car has failed to start once in over 2 years, due to what I believe was a low battery in the key. I can't see that being the case 20 years ago.



Volvo have stated that by 2020, noone should be killed or injured in a new Volvo car. Obviously that's a very bold statement to make, but the technology for this to actually make this happen is here, and that can only be a good thing.

El_Duderino 09

CiniO wrote:

I don't think so. There's surely a good bit of population which indeed don't like to drive, but I'd say majority of people like to drive, and wouldn't choose self driving car.

I currently commute 90 mins each way to work a bus and a train. I read books, watch TV shows or movies on the tablet, read the news or have a snoozy-snooze (public servant so i don't actually work on the commute). I don't mind the commute because I get to use it to relax on the way home.

I would hate to be driving in traffic for 90 mins each way. A driverless commute to work would be more comfortable and I wouldn't have to share my space. I think lots of people would take the driverless car to work.

It's a totally different thing to driving for pleasure.

Also worth mentioning that driverless and electric cars will probably become more expensive and will need a rethink about he whole idea of owning a car. It's likely that we will lease the car rather than buying it outright. Cars will he easier to refit and lease again rather than scrapping.


Cars replaced horse and cart and walking. There was almost no chance of a car accident because there were so few cars. Now fatal car accidents are a fact of normal life. Driverless cars could almost solve that problem. Some people think this kind of change is Scarry and to he avoided. Its just normal progress.

Sam Russell

sandra06 wrote: »

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

What happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he tried to fix the producer with a hammer?

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Maybe, I'm not going to argue about that, but I just don't see it widely available within next 10 years.
Maybe 30...


I don't think so.
There's surely a good bit of population which indeed don't like to drive, but I'd say majority of people like to drive, and wouldn't choose self driving car.


Why do you think driving EV might not be fun?
I find drive anything to be fun - doesn't need to be combustion engine, provided it's fast


Don't think so.
In vast majority of the world insurance cost currently in negligible (even though it's humans driving now), so I don't see the reason why it should change in the future.
Ireland is bit different, where insurance cost is silly high, but world doesn't start and doesn't end within Ireland.



People won't let that happen.

The US army is testing a fleet of self driving trucks this summer. When they first set a competition for autonomous vehicles none got far, the next year several finished and in later competitions even motorbikes finished. The thing currently holding back autonomous vehicles isn't technology it's who will the vehicle kill when it's a choice between a child and an OAP, no one is getting into a car programmed to kill the occupants.

An EV has no gearbox and torque from zero rpm there will be very little driver interaction bar flooring the accelerater coming out of corner and it won't matter what speed you enter as it'll pull the same regardless, so it'll be fast but boring. People don't like automatics now where with knowledge you can play with the gears to get the best out of the car, with an EV there will always be full torque available and no gears to play with.

Trackers are becoming common in commercial vehicles and already with young drivers. Soon if you want to drive without a tracker you'll be paying a premium for the privilege and with governments looking to implement "congestion" management they'll be in vehicles quicker than you think. The current plan is for vehicles to call the emergency services in a crash with their location in order to do that the vehicle will have to have GPS tracking and black boxes will record the last few minutes before the crash, which the insurance company and law enforcement will use to attribute blame.

So it'll be sit drinking pints in an autonomous vehicle or have big brother watching your every move, I know which one I'll choose.

Del2005

Sam Russell wrote: »

What happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he tried to fix the producer with a hammer?

He got a pay rise.

eeguy

Trucks, trains, planes busses and cars will all be autonomous in the next few decades.

It'll be gradual and in many cases there might be a jobsbridge standing by in the cabin to hit the red button if something goes goes wrong, but it will happen.

There's too much money behind this revolution for it to fail.

CiniO

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I currently commute 90 mins each way to work a bus and a train. I read books, watch TV shows or movies on the tablet, read the news or have a snoozy-snooze (public servant so i don't actually work on the commute). I don't mind the commute because I get to use it to relax on the way home.

I would hate to be driving in traffic for 90 mins each way. A driverless commute to work would be more comfortable and I wouldn't have to share my space. I think lots of people would take the driverless car to work.

I commute to work 15-20 minutes on empty, narrow, bendy country roads, where I can really enjoy my drive. I love taking bends at high speeds, accelerating hard and braking hard. This is what makes me happier.
I can't imagine sitting in a machine which is driven by a computer without me interacting.
And I think there's lots of people like me there, who won't let normal cars disappear for driverless cars.

Also, even if my drive was through the city in traffic jams, I'd still love that, and wouldn't let computer drive my car.

Cars replaced horse and cart and walking. There was almost no chance of a car accident because there were so few cars. Now fatal car accidents are a fact of normal life. Driverless cars could almost solve that problem. Some people think this kind of change is Scarry and to he avoided. Its just normal progress.

There was plenty fatal accidents in times when people were commuting by horses, carts. Early cars were also deadly.
I don't think it's just normal progress to get rid of regular vehicles, and it won't happen.

The same way they were saying that TV will cause people to stop reading books or newspapers. As you can see it never happend, and people use both.

Jayop

In 1978 there was 678 road deaths in Ireland
In 2015 there was 165 road deaths in Ireland

Cars are much much safer now than they were.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

The US army is testing a fleet of self driving trucks this summer. When they first set a competition for autonomous vehicles none got far, the next year several finished and in later competitions even motorbikes finished. The thing currently holding back autonomous vehicles isn't technology it's who will the vehicle kill when it's a choice between a child and an OAP, no one is getting into a car programmed to kill the occupants.

So technology is advancing, but as you point out there are still problems, and I can't see many of them solved soon.
I'm giving a rough guess of about 30 years, before self driving cars will become available to general public.

An EV has no gearbox and torque from zero rpm there will be very little driver interaction bar flooring the accelerater coming out of corner and it won't matter what speed you enter as it'll pull the same regardless, so it'll be fast but boring. People don't like automatics now where with knowledge you can play with the gears to get the best out of the car, with an EV there will always be full torque available and no gears to play with.

Don't worry. Driving will still be fun.
And your example with automatic transmission is actually good here.
As you can see, even though automatic is meant to be more convenient, plenty of people choose manual just for the sake of driving pleasure.
The same will happen with self driving cars.

Trackers are becoming common in commercial vehicles and already with young drivers.

In Ireland and UK - maybe.
There's still plenty of places in the world, where this is not the case, and won't be because people won't let it happen.

Soon if you want to drive without a tracker you'll be paying a premium for the privilege and with governments looking to implement "congestion" management they'll be in vehicles quicker than you think. The current plan is for vehicles to call the emergency services in a crash with their location in order to do that the vehicle will have to have GPS tracking and black boxes will record the last few minutes before the crash, which the insurance company and law enforcement will use to attribute blame.

That's actually a good idea to have a black box, for attributing blame at accident.
But not to spy on people.

So it'll be sit drinking pints in an autonomous vehicle or have big brother watching your every move, I know which one I'll choose.

I'd choose to drive my car, and not let anyone spy on me.

Sam Russell

I think autonomous cars could well find their way into public transport, like replacing taxis in some way.

We currently have Dublin bikes where you hire by the hour or so, and Go-Car cars you can hire by the hour, so if Go-Car vehicles became autonomous, then it would be attractive for the occasional foray into the busy city traffic with no worries. I would try it out for certain - could be fun like being in a limo swilling champagne.

sandra06

sandra06 wrote: »

the problem with all the high tec stuff on cars is if it breaks down can cost a fortune to fix my sis has a peouget car and the abs breaking system went faulty ,garage ordered new sensor cost 150 ,,garage put new sensor on and they cant programme it has to go to peouget garage which has been priced at nearly 200 if it was yrs ago you could fix it with a hammer like jeremy clarkson

Not a hammer. He's a spanner!

Jayop

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think autonomous cars could well find their way into public transport, like replacing taxis in some way.

We currently have Dublin bikes where you hire by the hour or so, and Go-Car cars you can hire by the hour, so if Go-Car vehicles became autonomous, then it would be attractive for the occasional foray into the busy city traffic with no worries. I would try it out for certain - could be fun like being in a limo swilling champagne.

I think there's absolutely no doubt that Taxi drivers will be one of the next industries to be wiped out by robots. Imagine running a taxi company using driver less cars??

No wages
24 hour service with no breaks
No worries about working nights/weekends
No complaints from customers about annoying drivers

It's a winner all round from the perspective of everyone but the drivers.

El_Duderino 09

CiniO wrote:

I commute to work 15-20 minutes on empty, narrow, bendy country roads, where I can really enjoy my drive. I love taking bends at high speeds, accelerating hard and braking hard. This is what makes me happier. I can't imagine sitting in a machine which is driven by a computer without me interacting. And I think there's lots of people like me there, who won't let normal cars disappear for driverless cars.

Sounds like fun... for 15-20 mins. Do it for an hour and a half each way and it will become a chore and it's 3 hours of dead time out of your life, every working day. We're talking about different things.

CiniO wrote:

Also, even if my drive was through the city in traffic jams, I'd still love that, and wouldn't let computer drive my car.

It's possible for 20 mins. I'm talking about a long commute. 3 hours of traffic isn't fun because you still have all the domestic jobs to do when you get home and then you can think about socialising... whilst sitting in traffic. Still having fun?

CiniO wrote:

There was plenty fatal accidents in times when people were commuting by horses, carts. Early cars were also deadly. I don't think it's just normal progress to get rid of regular vehicles, and it won't happen.

As if to illustrate the point that there is a shift in thinking about to happen. Why do we need to accept road fatalities as part of life? Driverless cars would iliminate most causes of death from road accidents.

Saying it won't happen is naive. It will happen slowly but all technology goes from innovative, to useful, to common, to obsolete, to retro.

CiniO wrote:

The same way they were saying that TV will cause people to stop reading books or newspapers. As you can see it never happend, and people use both.

TV hasn't killed reading but it definately has changed how people spend their free time. I wouldn't advise investing in paper printing because... technology and progress.

That's what they said about the car never replacing the horse and cart.
Driverless cars will become the norm and will replace the old fashioned manual driven cars in time. As someone has pointed out already, you can't find a fully manual car anymore. I wonder if you would enjoy your car so much if it didn't have any artificial intelligence or driver aids.

There will probably always be some manually driven cars but mostly as a novelty given enough time.

TrailerBob

Jayop wrote: »

In 1978 there was 678 road deaths in Ireland
In 2015 there was 165 road deaths in Ireland

Cars are much much safer now than they were.

Really is a key point here... Whatever about cars going autonomous, the technology is making them astronomically safer. There would have been far less cars on Irish roads in the 70's too. (Granted it's a mix of road improvement too)

Don't forget that most of the technology in a car is stuff you don't see, especially design features like crumple zones and reduced drag coefficients for fuel economy .

I do like the balance of good design and easy home maintenance you get with cars in the early 2000's

El_Duderino 09

CiniO wrote:

So technology is advancing, but as you point out there are still problems, and I can't see many of them solved soon. I'm giving a rough guess of about 30 years, before self driving cars will become available to general public.

Totally wrong on this point. To quote JFK 'We will go to the moon in this decade, and do the other thing'. Keep an eye in the technology section of your favourite publication and you'll see driverless car news every week. A few weeks ago they had the laws changed in the us to make sure driverless cars were legal. Same in the UK. Google cars have clocked up a colossal number if kilometres and had their first crash a few weeks ago too. The recent technology fare in Las Vegas was dominated by driverless electric.

Why are people so afraid of driverless cars? It's just normal progress.

Jayop

TrailerBob wrote: »

Really is a key point here... Whatever about cars going autonomous, the technology is making them astronomically safer. There would have been far less cars on Irish roads in the 70's too. (Granted it's a mix of road improvement too)

Don't forget that most of the technology in a car is stuff you don't see, especially design features like crumple zones and reduced drag coefficients for fuel economy .

I do like the balance of good design and easy home maintenance you get with cars in the early 2000's

Aye the reduction of deaths is amazing. I know it's not all down to cars being safer. You've probably better driving, more people wearing seatbelts, safer roads, less drink driving. But like you said there's many more cars on the road now and people drive faster so I'd say the cars being safer play a significant role.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

That's actually a good idea to have a black box, for attributing blame at accident.
But not to spy on people.



I'd choose to drive my car, and not let anyone spy on me.

Driving is a privilege not a right and cars are being developed now which read road signs, along with much more accurate satellite navigation when Europe gets Galileo working, do you honestly think that government's aren't going to start either restricting speed or just straight out fining for traffic offences which your vehicle will tell them about. You won't have a choice to be monitored as it'll be a safety device checked during periodic roadworthiness checks.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

I commute to work 15-20 minutes on empty, narrow, bendy country roads, where I can really enjoy my drive. I love taking bends at high speeds, accelerating hard and braking hard. This is what makes me happier.
I can't imagine sitting in a machine which is driven by a computer without me interacting.
And I think there's lots of people like me there, who won't let normal cars disappear for driverless cars.

Also, even if my drive was through the city in traffic jams, I'd still love that, and wouldn't let computer drive my car.



There was plenty fatal accidents in times when people were commuting by horses, carts. Early cars were also deadly.
I don't think it's just normal progress to get rid of regular vehicles, and it won't happen.

The same way they were saying that TV will cause people to stop reading books or newspapers. As you can see it never happend, and people use both.

If you look at the crash statistics on the RSA site most fatal and serious injuries occur on narrow bendy country roads, autonomous vehicles won't crash on these.

I'd be interested in mechanics thoughts on the way cars are going. Will we see a situation where a newly qualified mechanic now will have to go back and re train in 15 years. With electric cars etc it looks like you will could have different mechanics for different types of cars.

The electrical systems and computers are getting so complicated aswell I can't see how it won't go this way.

How can a person trained to take an engine apart and rebuild it , be expected to rebuild an electric motor or repair a cars computer system in say 10 years when they go to the next level in complications, without further training..

Jayop

Jasmine Damp Skirmish wrote: »

I'd be interested in mechanics thoughts on the way cars are going. Will we see a situation where a newly qualified mechanic now will have to go back and re train in 15 years. With electric cars etc it looks like you will could have different mechanics for different types of cars.

The electrical systems and computers are getting so complicated aswell I can't see how it won't go this way.

Any mechanic working for a main dealer undergoes constant training and upskilling. This will be no different and I'd imagine the electric cars will probably have less things that can go wrong with them anyway. Much much fewer moving parts.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Any mechanic working for a main dealer undergoes constant training and upskilling. This will be no different and I'd imagine the electric cars will probably have less things that can go wrong with them anyway. Much much fewer moving parts.

Yeah but say an Indy?

I would imagine you could get computer engineers now who would struggle understanding a new high end cars electrics systems let alone a mechanical engineer\mechanic

El_Duderino 09

Jayop wrote:

Any mechanic working for a main dealer undergoes constant training and upskilling. This will be no different and I'd imagine the electric cars will probably have less things that can go wrong with them anyway. Much much fewer moving parts.

It's the reduction in overall mechanical maintenance that mechanics will be most worried about. There are less mechanical parts than today's cars and they are less likely to break since there isn't as much heat created in electric cars. I would like to hear a mechanic's opinion but I wouldn't take it for gospel.

My FIL was a newly qualified painter when the paint roller was a controversial invention. Each roller was going to put 3 men out of work. I know what those men thought about the roller but I also know the roller was a necessary progression in painting.

Jayop

Jasmine Damp Skirmish wrote: »

Yeah but say an Indy?

I would imagine you could get computer engineers now who would struggle understanding a new high end cars electrics systems let alone a mechanical engineer\mechanic

The Indy is still going to be doing a lot of the work they currently do. Brake and suspension work, tyres and the likes. Anything relating to the main motor or battery will have to be looked after by a main dealer.

In all honesty though there wont even be that much work for the main dealer any more. Tesla for example try to fix electrical and SW issues remotely and will only send a tech if they can't do that.

If a motor goes bang there's sweet fa Tesla can do with an update. that's gona be the huge limit on these cars. Who gona buy a 10 year old electric car if you need to bring it to a main dealer if something happens to the motor.

Jayop

Jasmine Damp Skirmish wrote: »

If a motor goes bang there's sweet fa Tesla can do with an update. that's gona be the huge limit on these cars. Who gona buy a 10 year old electric car if you need to bring it to a main dealer if something happens to the motor.

Well clearly if a motor goes whallop then you're banjaxed anyway. What's the expected lifespan on a can nowadays anyway? I'm sure that the average electric will last as long as the average petrol or diesel will. If you buy a 10 year old BMW now and the engine goes it's for the scrapper. No big difference.

DublinDilbert

Jayop wrote: »

Well clearly if a motor goes whallop then you're banjaxed anyway. What's the expected lifespan on a can nowadays anyway? I'm sure that the average electric will last as long as the average petrol or diesel will. If you buy a 10 year old BMW now and the engine goes it's for the scrapper. No big difference.

The design life for a car is about 10,000 hours. Electric motors are much more robust than any engine, lots of 3 phase motors running in industry 24-7. Only things that will ever need replacing are the bearings.

Definitely getting more reliable / robust. Look at the prius for example, the automatic transmission is a complex task to design, but actually very simple. The prius cvt is probably the simplest design you could get.

Also on the prius the air conditioning compressor is electric, so much smaller unit, no need to bolt to the engine. Doesn't need to have long pipes or deal with heat/vibration. Electric compressors are widely used in domestic fridges 24-7, without a problem.