Changes in JCs

pinkypinky

I was away over the weekend and shocked to see the changes in JCs. They've got rid of the butchers counter and replaced it with prepacked meats. The wall of wonder has moved to where the butchers was. Disappointed to hear on talking to the staff that the butchers have lost their jobs. The person I spoke to indicated the Lidl was a part of the problem and was worried about her own. I remember being disappointed with An Bord Pleanala's decision to allow it to be built there.

Stheno

Is there no fresh butchers at all anymore?

carltonleon

Stheno wrote: »

Is there no fresh butchers at all anymore?

No, all made redundant. All pre packed stuff now. I went up there on Sat to get a leg of lamb but they had none left and they told me that the butchers was being ripped out that night. I ended up going down to Hennigans(butcher in Applewood) to get it. I reckon they could lose business over it, that personal touch is being diminished.

SmartinMartin

Gawd, that brings back memories! I worked weekends and after school in the old shop on Main St. I remember stacking the shelves for the very first time in the new store just in time for easter opening. Can't remember what year, I think it was around 1980. Actually it could have been '78.
Bloody Ell, it was 1977. I can't be that old!

Stheno

carltonleon wrote: »

No, all made redundant. All pre packed stuff now. I went up there on Sat to get a leg of lamb but they had none left and they told me that the butchers was being ripped out that night. I ended up going down to Hennigans(butcher in Applewood) to get it. I reckon they could lose business over it, that personal touch is being diminished.

That's a shame for the staff, there was one older man in the butchers who was a pleasure to deal with. I hope they all find other work soon

Michael8000

Very surprising to say the least.

Dizzyblonde

I was up there on Friday and it was sad, the butchers all saying goodbye because they were finishing up on Saturday. There were something like 15 butchers, as far as I know, and over 70% of their meat was prepacked anyway so they were definitely overstaffed. It's such a pity they didn't keep any of the butchers though.

I suppose they have to make a lot of changes in order to stay afloat and to compete with the multiples.

mickmmc

JCs are facing significant challenges:

Aldi Ireland have a planning notice up on the gate at the infill site next to the Parochial House on Seatown Road (opposite Fingal Community College). Aldi want to increase the parking to 77 spaces from 67 in the previous planning permission granted and to amend the opening hours. A developer purchased the site and applied for planning for a convenience store; planning was granted and the site was sold to Aldi Ireland.

An Bord Pleanala granted planning for a second Lidl store on Dublin Road ( close to Pinnock Hill).

There is uncertainty over the future of the Fingal County Council library on JCs site. My understanding is that Fingal County Council rent the premises from JCs. Fingal County Council have plans to build a new library and theatre on the car park site at the junction of Seatown Road and North Street. If the library closes at JCs that will lead to a drop in footfall.

dslamjack

Thank's mickmmc for that,God how many supermarkets does a town need,let alone the immediate area,even if the house's that planned for the area are ''ever'' built.
I count 7 stores off my head to include Lidl,Jc's,Dunnes Stores,Supervalue,C+T'S,Tesco Express,Spar and according to golden pages 12 stores all within a half mile of main street.
Surely the council should be addressing the homeless issue and sites like the one mentioned above for Aldi + Lidl,ear marked for housing the elderly or social housing to try a bring life back in to the village,just look at the state of main street now,a derelict eyesore and I'm not talking about the empty shops adjoining the Castle.

pinkypinky

I'm derailing my own thread now but I understood the library situation was renovation on the current site. They've had consultation images up on the notice boards in JCs a while back.

ongarboy

I remember RTE had a documentary on JCs a couple of years back just before JC himself passed away and Fergal Quinn was brought in to help them modernise for 21st century retailing. It seemed that while the family were very well meaning and liked by their local customers, they were falling behind when it came to embracing what is needed to be a successful supermarket retailer competing against all the international multiples. While Quinn gave them some good tips, I wonder if that was enough. 15 butchers in one supermarket seems like way too many.

To the poster who questioned how Swords can sustain all the supermarkets, it should be noted that the town is one of the largest in the country. The 2011 census stated it had around 37000 people and I bet next month's 2016 Census could have it surpass 40000 population. There is also the catchment area that shop there (Donabate, Malahide, Portrane, Naul, Kinsealy etc) which is 1000s more so I think the market is there. I'm just suprised that there isn't a large Tesco in the town. The Tesco Express is just a convenience Spar type store. Rural towns that only have 2000 people have proper Tesco supermarkets (eg Swinford, Abbeyfeale, Ballinamore etc).

Personally, I don't think the main street is a shambles. I think it's mature tree lined avenue is very attractive and I don't recall that many vacant units (expect for those around the castle which I understand Fingal Co Co have plans to develop a tourist/civic amenity in the future). Having Penneys open onto the main street and give direct pedestrian access to Pavillions via Swords Central has helped liven the main street at that end also.

dslamjack

You are right ongarboy,I am being a bit harsh ,when the Castle project is completed ,the village will be spectacular, the derelict building are due for demolition soon,and I'm sure the empty units will be leased when things pick up with the castle project.
Mickmmc started a thread on it here ,http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057560526 ,I only hope Jc's can hold on,with all the new housing plans for above it at Rathbeale and Lissenhall.
Jc's is great , they were allways very good to their regulars,and the staff are brilliant,allways say hello,and the wall of wunder is brill, and all the other deal's up at the till's,and the fella on the speaker is great,allways some thing on offer,I think thats where lidl +aldi got the idea for their specials from.

rushfan

I've been shopping in JC'S for almost 25yrs, always found it to be a great place to shop. Yes, as dslamjack says , the staff are brill. The floor staff, butchers, checkout staff, all helpful and obliging. I have ALWAYS found management to be stand offish, aloof , and generally reluctant to engage with their customers. I believe part of their problem is that they've too many managers. Sad to see the butchers lose their jobs, I played football with some of them in the past, great guys. I'm not on Facebook, but have it on good authority that JC's were being slaughtered because of this decision.

mickmmc

The Swords Cultural Quarter Masterplan on the FCC website has plans for a library/theatre at the staff car park at North Street/Seatown Road.

I did have a look at JC's planning application for renovation of the library/new cafe on their site. Planning was granted by An Bord Pleanala on 9th February 2016 (F15A/0024).

There seems to be public silence from Fingal County Council management about the proposed renovated library in JCs.

L1011

That's the charity calender done for (as the least important impact of this, though)

Stheno

dslamjack wrote: »

I count 7 stores off my head to include Lidl,Jc's,Dunnes Stores,Supervalue,C+T'S,Tesco Express,Spar and according to golden pages 12 stores all within a half mile of main street.

Sorry for being slightly ot, but what is C+Ts and where is the Tesco?

rushfan

Stheno wrote:

Sorry for being slightly ot, but what is C+Ts and where is the Tesco?

Tesco is in Ridgewood, off the Forest Rd. C & T is the old name for what's now Centra in River Valley.

Dizzyblonde

L1011 wrote: »

That's the charity calender done for (as the least important impact of this, though)

Once seen, never forgotten :eek:

dslamjack

Actually an auld friend in Rivervalley was telling me C+T's is gone this 5/6 years,I did't think it was that long ,that was family run too,I still call the Centra C+T's,like Peters supermarket in Malahide.
The C+Ts in Holmpatrick in Skerries was related to the Rivervalley one I think,could have been brother's ,I can't remember.
That's the danger if too many of the ''multiple'' supermarkets open in an area, small shop's/stores in area's like Applewood or Rivervalley become uneconomic and not financially viable.
Then you end up having to drive or walk a pilgrimage to get a pint of milk or the paper,hopefully Jc's can hold out , it has been a fantastic employer over the year's.
God rest JC ,he always said hello or had a bit of laugh with you,and year's ago if a family around the area had a death or a misfortune,JC himself would be down to call at the house and offer help etc.
Hopefully there will be no more job loss's at Jc's,the way thing's are going , the kid's will be asking us what's a butcher in a few year's,God forbid in all harm and his holy and blessed mammy.

Stheno

Ah I was in JCs tonight :eek:

Very strange with the wall of value gone, this massive big space now for the bread, and the new wall of value is not the same.

Seemed quiet as well.

dslamjack

15 butchers for a store that size would not really be unusual in the ''old'' day's,considering they had a meat - beef , a pork and a poultry counter.
That would equate probably to a senior butcher with 1th ,2th 3rd and 4th year apprentice's on each counter,I'm not sure how many years butchers would train ,but it must be 4 or 5 I'm sure and probably for longer for other aspect's of the trade.
As I was saying above and you only have to look at Moore St now with all the butchers gone to see how a profession and trade is in danger of dying out.
I don't buy meat or poultry anywhere where there is no butcher in store ,especially any pre packed meat etc,maybe it's me and my trust levels but I don't fancy eating ''chicken'' that could have been swimming in a puddle on a foreign shore in a previous life, ta very much.
At least if their's a trained butcher and meat counter in a store,you know the butcher is qualified with all the inspection's etc.
People go on about quality,traceability,product's being organic etc ,I for one would not be taking any old stamp or fancy guarantee on an out of store pre packed item as gospel,maybe again it's just me ,but I remember the scandal about beef stamp's and 10 year old beef.

Joaney

I went in to do my shopping last night and having been away for a little while I was shocked when I saw the changes in JCs store. I feel the whole atmosphere of JCs, in which I have loyally given my custom for 30 years, has changed for the worse. I know they are facing issues with lots of other retailers moving into the area but I think they are approaching the solution in a completely wrong way. Imagine my shock when I turned the corner and discovered there is no longer a fresh butchery section. I spoke with the consultant overseeing the relaunch of the store and in fairness he was very polite and explained why the changes were needed and what further improvements were going to happen. I asked how I would now buy a piece of meat (like for instance round roast) which I would like to select a certain size, etc. I was informed that I could come in and give my order to the new firm supplying the meat. I asked what if I needed it immediately, like if I was having someone for dinner that day, to be told I couldn't have that. I also informed the consultant that I didn't think it was financially viable for me to have to make two journeys to buy a piece of meat as I do not live in Swords - one visit to order it today and another to collect it tomorrow. It wasn't good for the environment either if I had to drive in and out twice and there are many other butchers I can go to, but unfortunately this will mean I will also do my other grocery shopping in these centres also.

Another change coming is a coffee shop to attract in younger shoppers. Now I understand that JCs need to reach out to attract newer customers as us, their older and more loyal customers, may kick the bucket soon (I am only in my early 50s!!), so I suggested that it might be a death wish to do this at the expense of losing their loyal regular customers and still not attracting in the younger people they are targeting.

I also brought up the fact that while I thought the improvements made the shop look a lot cleaner I was not happy with the huge price hikes which I have witnessed over the last six months (and which I have always brought to the attention of management). For instance Robert Roberts Decaff tea was always €3.99 for 80 teabags and is still that price in Dunnes, Tescos, SuperValue, etc. Suddenly they were €5.20 in JCs. In fairness after discussing this with a member of the management team things were rectified and the teabags are once again on a par with the bigger retailers at a price of €3.99. Recently I've also noticed their sugar has gone up from 79c to 99c, an increase in one go of 20c on one item. How many other items have jumped and I have only noticed these price hikes because I call myself a savvy shopper and know the prices in the different stores (a must when you salary has been cut three times in the recession).

I really hope JCs remain an active part of Swords but I don't hold out much hope if their prices keep escalating, if they keep removing services and choices which their customers want (like fresh meat not pre-packed) and if they don't regain the happy atmosphere among the staff that have worked there for as long as I can remember. There is a noticeable deterioration in the atmosphere in the shop. It is, in my opinion, no longer the pleasant experience it used to be to do a weekly shop here.

Here's to embracing change that suits everyone, including the customer, and not forcing older people out to the bigger supermarkets.

dslamjack

Welcome to Boards,Joaney,an excellent first post,I think you mentioned the real killer ''a consultant'',once they get involved it's all down hill after that.
I'm not a great fan of Ryanair's Michael O'Leary,but I remember him being interviewed and being asked would he bring in consultant's to help improve the airlines image- What he replied was - what pay 12 Useless losers to sit around a table for 12 month's charging a fortune to tell you what your all ready overpaid management should be doing all ready and not waiting to be told.
I hate to say it ,but he was right, and it has been said above that Jc's management above have become aloof from their customers,which is the biggest pity.
Any company's biggest asset is their staff,in my book a bad staff equals a bad company,you can't have one without the other.
I was in Supervalue in Lusk and Skerries yesterday,they both have really friendly helpfull local staff and both have at least 2 butchers and meat/poultry/fish counters,even if the area +display is small.
At least you can talk to them and get the best cut and advice to suit your need's.
Lidl +Aldi might be all that at the moment,but if a member of staff ,if you could find one smiled or said hello,ye'd faint.
I've actually seen fights and row's in those stores among the clientèle at the check out's,rushing to beat each other to an opening till,some of them would walk on you.
The staff in some of those stores where that dour they had to be trained to''say hello'',so now you get a kind of half hearted/mundane hello at best.
I posted on the consumer forum here the other day,before this thread was started about being greeted at the front door of Homestore and more in Airside last Sunday,my self and the wife are still getting over the shock at being greeted in such a polite warm welcoming manner by a young member of staff,immaculate in appearance and obviously very attentive to customer's.
What the management of Jc's have failed to do,like a lot of other old traditional family business's is to change with the times,while retaining the the old value's of a friendly personalised customer service while still providing the value and convenience of modern shopping need's.
If the like's of Supervalue and Spar can do it and remain in business,then there's no reason Jc's can't continue to be a pillar of the shopping experience in Fingal.

Stheno

I find the staff in Lidl beside JCs pretty friendly tbh.

There's a couple in JCs who would turn your milk sour with the faces/manner on them.

Most of the staff in JCs are grand though

pinkypinky

The butcher counter is a real loss and while I'll continue to do my main shopping in JCs, I'll be going to Applewood for my meat because I want smaller amounts at a time. I also spoke to the meat consultant guy and pointed out that it's no use to me buying larger packs of meat.

dslamjack

There should actually be a customer service and personality development test for anybody dealing with the public.
I'm sure we've met them all, the cashier with the personality of a clamper with a hangover and bad toothache,the sales assistance that look's so bored,you think their asleep or in a coma,when you disturb them,the arm automatically lift's and point's with a limp finger to a point in now where and all without making eye contact.
Some time's I wonder have they been sentenced by a local judge as part of a judgement to work with the public,so they do so under duress.
Then you have the one's that must have saved up 10 packet's of Tayto to get a name tag and a title.
O'hh,let's not forget the one's you want to knock/knock on the forehead,,er helo helo anybody in ...
I remember a few year's ago, being in a certain hardware store once at the check out , 5 of them there yapping and standing, none of them at a till,(early morning)an eternity passed while I waited,there were big roll's of insulation on display,so I lay back in to them and shouted to them to wake me up when they were ready to get going -- Just as a suit walked on to the floor,Lordy ye'd swear someone had died they jumped that much, I got my paint and brush's for nothing and the manager's card if I ever had a problem again.
But seriously how/why some of these people sentence themselves and more importantly the poor paying publish to their misery is beyond me,I mean if you don't like the public, serving them or working with them,get another job,life is too short if you hate or dislike a job that much,even to go through the motion's for the sake of it.
Yep there should be a public service licence ,that can be endorsed as well as penalty point's and ban's for bad customer service , just like a driving licence.
Call Centre's , now I'd apply the death sentence for ...

Dizzyblonde

It's a real shame about the butchery department, and a pity they couldn't keep even a couple of butchers on. By the sound of it though, they're doing what is necessary to keep the supermarket open. If they didn't take drastic measures all their staff would soon be out of a job.

I love the new cheese/deli counter, and find the staff as helpful and friendly as ever and I hope the store goes from strength to strength. On more than one occasion Mr Dizzy has found himself at the checkout with a trolley full of shopping and no wallet, and he's been given sent home with the shopping, and receipt, and told he could pop back the next day with payment. I've regularly seen elderly customers being accompanied around the store by a member of the staff, helping them with their shopping. These things just don't happen anywhere else that I've ever shopped.

Edit: We've just had an envelope in the door from JC's, with a letter thanking the people of Swords for their custom. The shop is more than a hundred years on the go and they've included a flyer and a copy of the Proclamation for the Centenary of the Rising

dslamjack

Originally posted by Dizzyblonde - Edit: We've just had an envelope in the door from JC's, with a letter thanking the people of Swords for their custom. The shop is more than a hundred years on the go and they've included a flyer and a copy of the Proclamation for the Centenary of the Rising

My mother went to school with Jc's mother,in the old school house in Cloghran ,where the Alsaa is now , they have been long time employers in Sword's ,not only that but all the supplier's and farm's around the area,from egg's fruit n veg etc.
I have been caught out myself at the till's before and no problem, they also cashed people's pay cheque's, back in the day,which saved a lot of hassle of going to the bank first to get cash to do the shopping.
I know they used to drop off groceries to old folk ,but I think they actually dropped some of them back home,they go out of their way for the elderly.
That's because they have been shopping in Jc's for Donkey's year's.
It is a pity they did't hold on to at least 1 or 2 of the butcher's,hopefully they will put that right in time.
As you said D, hopefully these changes are in time to save the store,because it would be a terrible terrible loss to not only Sword's but to the whole of Fingal if Jc's were to go, let's hope we never see that day.

plodder

I noticed the changes there the other evening. The wide open space down the end is a bit disorienting to be honest. If I wanted that I'd probably go to Supervalu in the Pavilions. I really hope they know what they are doing and don't throw away what was different and special about JCs. Very sorry to hear about the butchers too, but the place was obviously over-staffed. I think they said as much recently on a program, where they acknowledged if they didn't own the building and had to pay rent, the business would have folded long ago. That's the way things seem to be going.

jwwb

Very surprising what they've done. I would have made dedicated journeys to purchase meat there and while I was there would have picked up some things.

By getting rid of the butchers they seem to be more moving to compete directly with the discounters and there can only be one winner in that contest. Foolish to get rid of the things that make you different.

Wishbone Ash

I know it won't be popular to say here but I could never see the appeal of JC's. In saying that, I've probably only been in there maybe 5 or 6 times in the past 30 years but it just didn't do it for me.

dslamjack wrote: »

My mother went to school with Jc's mother,in the old school house in Cloghran ,where the Alsaa is now....

Apologies for going off topic and being pedantic but wasn't that school further up a bit opposite Kealy's (where the entrance to the Green Long Term parking is now?)

dslamjack

You're right ,it was about opposite Kealy's , give or take,

Originally posted by Wishbone Ash -- Apologies for going off topic and being pedantic but wasn't that school further up a bit opposite Kealy's (where the entrance to the Green Long Term parking is now?)

there's actually an old cottage adjacent to Kealy's, a lot of bands used to practise there,including the well known group U2 when they were starting out.
I can't remember what year the school was demolished ,the site was idle for year's and only the front wall remained,how long is the Alsaa there 30 years ?.

rushfan

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I know it won't be popular to say here but I could never see the appeal of JC's. In saying that, I've probably only been in there maybe 5 or 6 times in the past 30 years but it just didn't do it for me.

Each to their own I guess ( kinda like cycling eh?? 😉 ) , but I always found it cheaper than Tesco or Stupidquinns etc. I could quote a few examples but don't want to come across as a supermarket anorak.

Wishbone Ash

dslamjack wrote: »

...I can't remember what year the school was demolished ,the site was idle for year's and only the front wall remained,how long is the Alsaa there 30 years ?.

It closed in 1967 and I think it was demolished in the late 1970's.

TheDoc

I was wondering where the butchers had went, considering the changes to the bakery area and the wall of value.

Thinking about it, while I bought plenty of meat in JC's, it was never from the butcher counter, but from the packs on the isles opposite. I somewhat assumed that was all prep'd by the instore butchers, so will be annoyed if thats gone, as it was some good stuff. And to be fair, the only reason I was still going in there. I do a kinda lazy Saturday/Sunday visit there for just breakfast stuff. We do our shop in Aldi. Can't say I see the Lidl beside being the issue, since they do not have a butchers, and the general consensus I hear is their meat isn't as good as Aldi, and that Jc's stuff was better again.

I'd say the issue is more with the butchers themselves getting their **** in order. you have one of thsoe Meat Company places that does good business down by the Christian Brothers school, and I hear nothing but good things about the butchers in Applewood. Meaning to pop in there actually since its just around the corner from me, but seemingly its great value and quality.

kowloon

Used to buy meat in JC's, would do a regular shop while I was there but it was the meat counter that got me to go out of my way. The butchers there were excellent. Anyone have a recommendation for a good meat supplier around Fingal?

dslamjack

Howley's here in Lusk,up beside the village store,Padraig and his excellent staff,the best quality and value ...http://www.howleysbutchers.ie/

micraX

Some of the butchers now working at Country Crests farm shop in Jones garden center.

T-Maxx

micraX wrote:

Some of the butchers now working at Country Crests farm shop in Jones garden center.

I saw the photo and article in the local paper and figured as much. Good news, I hope the other folks get sorted as well.

ann0

Stheno wrote: »

Is there no fresh butchers at all anymore?

there is a handful of butchers left.i think they are prepacking the meat themselves.a lot of what they made themselves is still there only prepacked.

sharkman

ann0 wrote: »

there is a handful of butchers left.i think they are prepacking the meat themselves.a lot of what they made themselves is still there only prepacked.

All meat is now pre-packed off premises by another butchers .

Ginny

Really? Crap, from what we were told a few butchers were kept and were packaging the meat in the back room that is left near the fish counter.

sharkman

Ginny wrote: »

Really? Crap, from what we were told a few butchers were kept and were packaging the meat in the back room that is left near the fish counter.

New supplier from today : http://www.mkmeats.eu/about.asp

carltonleon

Have been in JCs the last 2 weekends and the shop is not half as busy as previously. I would worry for its future, I have to say.

sharkman

carltonleon wrote: »

Have been in JCs the last 2 weekends and the shop is not half as busy as previously. I would worry for its future, I have to say.

I agree , I'm a regular in there and it's going nowhere FAST ! Getting rid of the butchers was economic suicide. They have got rid of some of their best assets ( the staff that brought the customer back week in week out) and are investing in technology. I'm wondering who JC's kids are listening too , I know the man would be disgusted at the current shop .

Uriel.

Yeah,
I've been a regular shopper there for decades. There is a definite and considerable drop in footfall, which I think is such a pity. I do worry about its long-term future, especially when the new Aldi and Lidl open.

Personally I think Swords will be worse off losing such a long standing indigenous business and employer. The price of so-called progress.

On a slightly different but related track, I am still regularly annoyed by the decision to allow Lidl build where they did - traffic can be a real pain at peak times on a single lane road, predominately due to cars queuing to enter which is a result of inadequate car park spaces and car park space(i.e. too close to the entrance leaving little on premises queuing space).

Dizzyblonde

It's a pity they didn't keep a few butchers and a smaller butchers section, it would have made a huge difference.

carltonleon

Totally agree about the butchers. I think some of the butchers were on big money but at least they should have kept a smaller butchers, in my opinion.
What is noticeable is the 4 or 5 of the tills are not open at all even at peak time.

rushfan

Agree with all of the above. JC'S definitely seems to be on a bit of a slide. I see they have a number of self service tills now at the off licence end. Also, one of the staff told me last week that they are reopening a small butchers counter soon. I'm not impressed either with the meat selection.

carltonleon

rushfan wrote: »

Agree with all of the above. JC'S definitely seems to be on a bit of a slide. I see they have a number of self service tills now at the off licence end. Also, one of the staff told me last week that they are reopening a small butchers counter soon. I'm not impressed either with the meat selection.

Reopening a small butchers counter would be a good step. I thought that they might do something like this were the higher paid lads/ladies would be made redundant and then a few months later reopen a smaller counter with much lower paid butcher staff.

pinkypinky

Small butchers counter is a good idea. I've complained twice about meat (them not having what I wanted, or just in too large quantities) in the last couple of months.

I've no objection to self-service check-outs when I only have a couple of items. I was in at lunch time today and it did save me several minutes queuing.