When aren't you a Catholic?

Frank Bullitt

hinault wrote: »

Indeed you did not cover that.

You didn't state whether or not you had discussed the reason for your being baptised with the people who had you baptised.

At a guess, it appears that you didn't discuss your being baptised with the people who had you baptised.

Its clear as day that he was baptized by his catholic parents because it was their choice. An infant child can't make that decision.

Like it was pointed out before in this thread, if baptism was left until the person was of age to make their own mind up, I would hazard a guess that the number of baptized in Ireland would be quite different.

I, like many born in Ireland, was baptized. But I would tick the 'No' box in this if I were home.

I have not believed anything to do with Catholicism, find their teachings encourage hate more than anything, and they strike a severe divide amongst people still in Irish society. They have done more harm than good.

Hopefully the number of 277,000 will go up since the last census.

Annasopra

Speedwell wrote: »

Oh well, to me honesty is putting down the answer that is closest to my opinion about public policy in an instrument designed to gauge people's probable opinions about matters of public policy, but you do as you think wisest.

But they are not asking you what your opinion on public policy is!!!!

Speedwell

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But they are not asking you what your opinion on public policy is!!!!

Sure they are. Otherwise why would they care?

Annasopra

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I may be a bit behind the times but is there not a Catholic Register or something that you can request to be removed from - if it is something you are serious about?

I personally have been baptised and the whole shebang but will be recording no religion on my form - there are only three reasons you will see me in a church, hatches, matches and dispatches - and only if I'm invited, on a few occasions I have found an excuse to skip the church part altogether

As far as I'm concerned if you are not a practicing Catholic who goes to mass and genuinely believes in the Catholic dogma then you have no business ticking the Catholic box on the census form or even identifying as Catholic - it's a religion and should be treated with respect, you either are one or you are not

There used to be an option to formally defect from the Church but not anymore


http://www.thejournal.ie/count-me-out-closes-because-of-catholic-church-defection-system-chage-1028259-Aug2013/

realdanbreen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't object Somebody splashed some water on my head decades ago. It's a total irrelevance.

So? if it's irrelevent to you then what's your problem?

Annasopra

Speedwell wrote: »

Sure they are. Otherwise why would they care?

No. They're not. They are asking questions on your life circumstances to determine public policy for the overall population. It's nothing to do with your opinion on the matter.

I mean don't be silly

If you go down that route -

"oh we need more schools I'll put down I have five children even though I've none"

"Oh I think gay marriage is great and we should show have mores lesbians in the country so I'll put down my husband is a woman"

"Oh rural Ireland doesn't get enough investment so I'll pretend I live in the countryside even though I live in the city centre."

Speedwell

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. They're not. They are asking questions on your life circumstances to determine public policy for the overall population. It's nothing to do with your opinion on the matter.

I mean don't be silly

If you go down that route -

"oh we need more schools I'll put down I have five children even though I've none"

"Oh I think gay marriage is great and we should show have mores lesbians in the country so I'll put down my husband is a woman"

"Oh rural Ireland doesn't get enough investment so I'll pretend I live in the countryside even though I live in the city centre."

No, don't be silly. The other questions are not about your opinions. The question about religion is literally about your opinions.

Annasopra

Speedwell wrote: »

No, don't be silly. The other questions are not about your opinions. The question about religion is literally about your opinions.

No. It's not your opinion. It's a factual question about how you define yourself. You are not being asked - should the state remove itself from catholic schools and hospitals. You are not being asked if we should have a religious constitutional preamble. You are asked a factual question on how you define yourself in a religious manner. Not your opinion on the religion. Not your opinion on public policy to do with religion etc.

The question on religion is not a question on your opinion on public policy.

Ush1

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. They're not. They are asking questions on your life circumstances to determine public policy for the overall population. It's nothing to do with your opinion on the matter.

I mean don't be silly

If you go down that route -

"oh we need more schools I'll put down I have five children even though I've none"

"Oh I think gay marriage is great and we should show have mores lesbians in the country so I'll put down my husband is a woman"

"Oh rural Ireland doesn't get enough investment so I'll pretend I live in the countryside even though I live in the city centre."

So they're asking should religious dogma influence public policy and if so, which religion should have the most influence?

People saying just put this that or just put that make me laugh.

The question is either relevant and worth asking (i.e has tangible purpose other than filling out a form for the sake of it) or it's not worth asking at all. If it's the former, then how its answered should be taken seriously.

Annasopra

Ush1 wrote: »

So they're asking should religious dogma influence public policy and if so, which religion should have the most influence?

People saying just put this that or just put that make me laugh.

The question is either relevant and worth asking (i.e has tangible purpose other than filling out a form for the sake of it) or it's not worth asking at all. If it's the former, then how its answered should be taken seriously.

No

They are not asking you anywhere if religious dogma should influence public policy!!!!!

Maximus Alexander

realdanbreen wrote: »

So? if it's irrelevent to you then what's your problem?

What problem? I never claimed to have had a problem with having been baptised.

Ush1

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No

They are not asking you anywhere if religious dogma should influence public policy!!!!!

Seems to be in conflict to what you said earlier. So why are they asking the question?

cowboyBuilder

The word "Atheist" is annoying to me at this stage, is there a word for someone who doesn't believe in fairies or witches ?

Do I need to put down "round earther" on the census form too ?

Annasopra

Ush1 wrote: »

Seems to be in conflict to what you said earlier. So why are they asking the question?

To determine public policy based on demographic statistics - not your opinion on public policy

Ush1

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

The word "Atheist" is annoying to me at this stage, is there a word for someone who doesn't believe in fairies or witches ?

Do I need to put down "round earther" on the census form too ?

A good one I had was when I was when I was filling out a form for St James' hospital and under religion it had options for 'None' and 'Atheist'.

Annasopra

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

The word "Atheist" is annoying to me at this stage, is there a word for someone who doesn't believe in fairies or witches ?

Do I need to put down "round earther" on the census form too ?

Just put down no religion

Ush1

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

To determine public policy based on demographic statistics - not your opinion on public policy

But that is your opinion on public policy!

If you are answering the question in the knowledge that this will effect public policy (and as we've said, why else would they ask), then you have offered your opinion on public policy.

You've done it even furthermore if you don't really take the question seriously. You're saying, I may not even believe or be accurate with what I'm putting down but this is what I would like to see.

Why do you think there is a campaign for people to select no religion?

superfurry1

Im ticking the catholic box, for selfish reasons really, only to frustrate hubert, the only atheist in the village who will choke on his flat white and be embalmed and buried in a Guardian news papier mache combination turtleneck.:D

Maximus Alexander

Ush1 wrote: »

A good one I had was when I was when I was filling out a form for St James' hospital and under religion it had options for 'None' and 'Atheist'.

Some people don't like to be referred to as 'atheist' because there's a whole Richard Dawkins atheist cult thing going on these days. Perfect example of why:

superfurry1 wrote: »

Im ticking the catholic box, for selfish reasons really, only to frustrate hubert, the only atheist in the village who will choke on his flat white and be embalmed and buried in a Guardian news papier mache combination turtleneck.:D

Also, I'm sure there are people who believe there's a God of some sort but don't subscribe to a particular religion.

Ush1

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Some people don't like to be referred to as 'atheist' because there's a whole Richard Dawkins atheist cult thing going on these days.

Do you know any atheists who consider atheism their "religion"? I reckon none would be more accurate.

lawred2

thattequilagirl wrote: »

They should definitely break it down into practicing and non-practicing.

definitely

but then maybe that cohort of non practicing should grow up and be more honest with themselves... they have no religion.

Shenshen

Ush1 wrote: »

Do you know any atheists who consider atheism their "religion"? I reckon none would be more accurate.

Outside the internet? Not really. Online there are some cases that make me look for another option to describe my non-existing beliefs, just so as to not associate myself with them.

Ush1

Shenshen wrote: »

Outside the internet? Not really. Online there are some cases that make me look for another option to describe my non-existing beliefs, just so as to not associate myself with them.

My point is that no atheist considers atheism their "religion". It wouldn't make sense.

The question was clearly written by someone who didn't understand what they were asking.

Atheism = No religion. No religion is the only option needed.

Maximus Alexander

Ush1 wrote: »

Do you know any atheists who consider atheism their "religion"? I reckon none would be more accurate.

That's a good point actually. Atheist shouldn't be on there at all.

Annasopra

Ush1 wrote: »

But that is your opinion on public policy!

If you are answering the question in the knowledge that this will effect public policy (and as we've said, why else would they ask), then you have offered your opinion on public policy.

You've done it even furthermore if you don't really take the question seriously. You're saying, I may not even believe or be accurate with what I'm putting down but this is what I would like to see.

Why do you think there is a campaign for people to select no religion?

No it's not your opinion on public policy. They are asking you what religious belief you hold not "do you think all state schools should be catholic" or "do you think we should have a purely secular state"

Your opinion on this doesn't come into it. They want to know only what religion you hold or if you hold none. Your opinion on state policy and religion is not being asked at all anywhere on the form.

beach_walker

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I was baptised and I'm not Catholic.

Speedwell wrote: »

Once you're baptised, you mean, you can consider yourself Catholic or not, and the Church doesn't care one way or the other because it's already made up its mind and it's not changing it, don't confuse it with facts.

*swish* Jeez lads, just having a laugh to the nonsense "black and white" statement. I think I explained myself well enough up to that point.

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

So there are requirements to being a Catholic? I thought anyone could just call themselves Catholic and anyone who questioned them was an ignorant militant atheist.

No, they've mainly kept to telling people what they and aren't. And worrying that the proles will be confused by a tickbox.

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Your opinion on state policy and religion is not being asked at all anywhere on the form.

Excellent point. People just seem to have decided what this question is and isn't for. I've asked elsewhere (because I disagree with the State even asking it) and was told it's just for analysis purposes and allowing easy comparisons throughout the years.

You get your input on State policy with elections and through your local TDs lads.

Ush1

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No it's not your opinion on public policy. They are asking you what religious belief you hold not "do you think all state schools should be catholic" or "do you think we should have a purely secular state"

Your opinion on this doesn't come into it. They want to know only what religion you hold or if you hold none. Your opinion on state policy and religion is not being asked at all anywhere on the form.

I didn't say it asked those questions verbatim, but its most certainly asking your opinion on public policy.

Just to answer my own question I put to you that you skipped over, the reason there is a campaign to select no religion is because people don't take it seriously.

This is especially true of a question about religion which is more than anything, opinion. It is NOT a statement of fact.

lawred2

beach_walker wrote: »

Excellent point. People just seem to have decided what this question is and isn't for. I've asked elsewhere (because I disagree with the State even asking it) and was told it's just for analysis purposes and allowing easy comparisons throughout the years.

You get your input on State policy with elections and through your local TDs lads.

Yes but it gives the vested interests the ammunition/excuses they need to maintain certain status quos..

VinLieger

beach_walker wrote: »

Excellent point. People just seem to have decided what this question is and isn't for. I've asked elsewhere (because I disagree with the State even asking it) and was told it's just for analysis purposes and allowing easy comparisons throughout the years.

You get your input on State policy with elections and through your local TDs lads.

Listening to the ads on the radio about filling in your referendum forms they very specifically mention the census results being used to form public policy

smash

A guy from the census was on the radio last week and said that they didn't have the funds to rework the form to ask if people were atheist, agnostic or even if you're practising your religion so the form will be identical to the 2012 form. It's a total cop out... It's 3/4 extra fields and no doubt they did edit the form to update the year!