A little advice needed.

DannyyBoy

Well lads,
I am after handing in my first FCA1 form to the garda station, this was exactly a month and a week ago. I have not heard anything back from them in anyway shape or form, no phone calls no letters or anything. I was told by my local Gun Dealer that if you hear nothing at all back after a month you should start knocking on some doors I.e. Ring them up and see what the story is. If I want to try to bypass them just brushing me aside, who should I ring specifically? The Supers office? And if it is not on file what should I do then? I know I'm probably being very impatient but there are some rabbits currently destroying our field with cattle in it

I'm living in the Enniscorthy area and when I rang up the garda station before I handed in my application I was told that there wasn't a specific garda that deals with Firearms in the station, contrary to what I have been reading all over the place. So I went and just handed the application in to the garda that was at the desk with very little questions asked. Is it weird that they don't have a FO in the station, or would the sergeant just deal with these applications?

Most likely the Gardai were just busy around St. Paddys day and Easter with all the events on etc. So I'm probably just being really impatient but I'm sure you all know the feeling of waiting to hear if you can go and pick up your lovely new firearm When applying do people always get a letter to say the application is in review or does it not happen in some places?

Thanks for anyone that can drop some wisdom and experience on this, much appreciated lads!

cookimonster

If you read the post 'usual waiting time....Dublin north' ..http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057555025 ..... you'll see that a single individual dealing with applications and renewals can wreck havoc on the system either by poor management techniques or simply being overloaded by other duties.

I'm not familiar with Enniscorthy Garda Station but if it's under staffed due to retirement, illness etc it is possible that a guard hasn't being a signed the responsibility for firearms applications etc.

If the station is a district HQ station then ring the Superintendents office to find out weather the application has being processed, if it isn't then ring the district HQ anyway and you may find out the point of contact in your local station.

To be honest 5 weeks is nothing in the grand scheme of things and sometimes you'll get paper work with out the acknowledgement letter ever been sent out.

Don't bother with the park as you haven't received a ye or nea yet and they won't do anything at the moment.

Press for a point of contact then go from there.

Cass

DannyyBoy wrote: »

I was told by my local Gun Dealer that if you hear nothing at all back after a month you should start knocking on some doors

Terrible advice.

legally they have 3 months to process the application or more accurately to make a decision on it. 3 months is a long time when you're waiting but to be told to start knocking on doors and ringing people when you're only a third of the way into it is silly. It'll only serve to annoy and irritate the person dealing with the applications and at the end of the day it's a person, unfortunately, so they can take the hump.

If I want to try to bypass them just brushing me aside, who should I ring specifically?

There is no such position as Firearms Officer. Its a term we, and An Gardaí use, but no actual position exists. It's why in some smaller stations they don't have one and usually the Sergeant of the station will deal with them. You wno't be able to go over the FOs head. .

The Supers office?

The Super simply doesn't take his own calls. He has a secretary or Garda dealing with those things. You won't get past them. Stay trying to contact whomever is processing the application

And if it is not on file what should I do then?

There is no file, as such. You are meant to get a letter to say your application has been received and will be processed in due course. Unfortunately these either never come out or arrive a couple o days before the actual grant letter. It's a joke and not the way the system was designed to work. However as these are only printed and posted when your details are entered onto pulse it means there could be weeks or months between when you drop of the application to when you receive the notification.

I know I'm probably being very impatient but there are some rabbits currently destroying our field with cattle in it

We've all been there. You need to temper your eagerness with practicality. IOW don't allow your want to get it quick to turn into you becoming a nuisance were they avoid your call.

So I went and just handed the application in to the garda that was at the desk with very little questions asked. Is it weird that they don't have a FO in the station, or would the sergeant just deal with these applications?

As above. No such thing as FO, and in small stations its usually the Sergant or they share the responsibility.

My local station is the same. Only three Gardaí. I left one substitution in, meant ot be done in 2 weeks, and after 4 weeks i finally got someone to find the substitution still sitting on the "to do" pile. Took it directly to the main station, and keep going there from now on.

When applying do people always get a letter to say the application is in review or does it not happen in some places?

As above you should but the system does not work as it should.

There is no harm to keep a finger on the pulse. However avoid dogging them, and don't try to go directly to the Super. It won't work and you'll only piss of the person that deals with the applications.

Your best bet is to go to the station. Harder to fob you off when you're standing there. But be patient.

cookimonster

To clarify a point the only reason to contact the Supers office at the moment or in the near future is to find out has your application got that far, as it ends up on the desk of the office staff and in this case get a point of contact in your station as the staff in the Supers office will be familiar with the guard processing the local stations paper work.
Cass is quite right you won't get past the office staff and just in case they offer you a email contact for the Superintendent at present I would ignore that avenue as it is way too early to be making complaints.

Cass, you lucky that you can bypass the station, I suggested the same thing with my renewals at my local station, which is the district HQ and the Sgt in the Supers office said that it would just be passed back down the corridor to the 'station FO' for processing before being returned to her desk!!!!!
There's public service bureaucracy for you

DannyyBoy

Sound for the advice lads and clearing things up, it's much appreciated coming from people that have been through the process and can tell me what's going on! Never ceases to amaze me how helpful people are on here

Cass

cookimonster wrote: »

Cass, you lucky that you can bypass the station,

My local was closed two years ago. The next nearest one has only three Gardaí and only one on duty at any time.

Problem is they haven't a clue. Making up laws, not understanding what needs done, asking for things that are not needed, and more annoyingly letting my paperwork sit there for weeks on end due to sick days, holidays, and then when they do turn up everyday stuff. I got fed up with the lack of understanding and me having to, frankly, do their job so i rang the main station. The FO their is pretty good and told me to ignore the local station and bring everything directly to the main station.

So it saves two things. Having to deal with the locals and even if i did not waiting for the local station to send it to the main station anyway.

Cass

DannyyBoy wrote: »

Sound for the advice lads and clearing things up, it's much appreciated coming from people that have been through the process and can tell me what's going on! Never ceases to amaze me how helpful people are on here

We've all been there. Thing is, unfortunately, it never ends. You will continue to get days like this over the years. Just be patient and try to go with it.

At the same time don't be fobbed off. If the allotted time is up, or you are getting messed around be stern, but polite. Know when to "push" a little.

If you need any advice or help just ask. The lads & ladies here will not steer you wrong.

cookimonster

My father had the same problem when he moved to the country on retirement, the local station was only manned during the day, if at all.
In his case the Sgt was insisting he deal with the local 'non existent' guard's, who where hardly ever there, to hand the paper work into or when there was someone there it was the usual 'I don't deal with firearms documentation '......
After a bit of twoing and froughing and eventually some forcefully conversations with the Garda Sgt he managed to bypass the local shop and deal directly with the main station.

goz83

It's a joke, it really is. The local FO rang me of a Tuesday to bring in ID and proof of magazine restriction on the Saturday. He was fostered for an evening to early morning shift. I arrive after 9 and he was off...finished early to cover Easter celebrations the next morning in town.

I popped to the station twice tonight and he is out on patrol. The other guards won't even take the letter and copy of my ID...it's a stupid, backward system and causes you to chase them when you shouldn't need to do anymore than drop in the completed fca1. What's worse is they give you wrong info all the time. I'm now told I need to book an appointment, but the last time I was told they don't do appointments. :mad:

Cass

goz83 wrote: »

The other guards won't even take the letter and copy of my ID...

This comes back to my previous statement about there being no such thing as an FO.

ANY Garda can take your paperwork, should sign you a receipt and then leave it by for whomever is dealing with the applications. However not only will they not do this they point blank refuse to and even if they do take the paperwork most i've seen, heard or dealt with won't issue a receipt.

So who is going to leave so much personal information with a Garda with no acknowledgement that it was handed in given the amount of "we lost your application" cases we've seen over the years?

hexosan

But where in the legislation does it say they have to issue a receipt. We can't kept harping on about legislation and then make up our own. Personally I think there should be a receipt section attached to the application.

goz83

Well if they can't won't issue a receipt, they can at least make a note in their big black book. To be honest, I feel like it's just a waste of time leaving a name in the station. I know they're busy, but it takes just as much time entering my details into the book as it would for them to take my documents.

I've sent an email with the scanned documents attached.

Vizzy

Cass wrote: »

This comes back to my previous statement about there being no such thing as an FO.

ANY Garda can take your paperwork, should sign you a receipt and then leave it by for whomever is dealing with the applications. However not only will they not do this they point blank refuse to and even if they do take the paperwork most i've seen, heard or dealt with won't issue a receipt.

So who is going to leave so much personal information with a Garda with no acknowledgement that it was handed in given the amount of "we lost your application" cases we've seen over the years?

Just on this point, I handed in two firearm renewals this morning and asked the Garda for some form of receipt or letter stating "Two firearm renewals submitted today by Mr X,signed Garda 123".
Told me that they didn't issue receipts for firearm related application and "what did I need it for anyway? "
I said that I didn't want to be in possession of an unlicenced firearm if the applications got misplaced or delayed.
He told me "nothing gets misplaced here" and he wrote down his name and said "you will know my name from now on,Mr X".

Jawgap

Vizzy wrote: »

Just on this point, I handed in two firearm renewals this morning and asked the Garda for some form of receipt or letter stating "Two firearm renewals submitted today by Mr X,signed Garda 123".
Told me that they didn't issue receipts for firearm related application and "what did I need it for anyway? "
I said that I didn't want to be in possession of an unlicenced firearm if the applications got misplaced or delayed.
He told me "nothing gets misplaced here" and he wrote down his name and said "you will know my name from now on,Mr X".

It took me three attempts to get my licence a few years ago - I handed one application in to the local station, it went missing. The next one went in to the divisional station and it got mislaid, the third one (also into the divisional station) made it through!

If I was the OP I'd ring the Super's office and speak to the admin assistant just to confirm they have the application.

My renewal is going in soon and as per the previous application I'm just going to make a note of the date/time it was submitted and the no. of the Guard who receives it. At least if it goes astray I'll have a starting point to begin asking.

jb88

Jawgap wrote: »

It took me three attempts to get my licence a few years ago - I handed one application in to the local station, it went missing. The next one went in to the divisional station and it got mislaid, the third one (also into the divisional station) made it through!

If I was the OP I'd ring the Super's office and speak to the admin assistant just to confirm they have the application.

My renewal is going in soon and as per the previous application I'm just going to make a note of the date/time it was submitted and the no. of the Guard who receives it. At least if it goes astray I'll have a starting point to begin asking.

They are so used to me at the local station now, they issue a receipt with everything without even me asking, its only taken 10 years.

Cass

hexosan wrote: »

But where in the legislation does it say they have to issue a receipt. We can't kept harping on about legislation and then make up our own. Personally I think there should be a receipt section attached to the application.

I never said that there was legislation for it. I said "should get a receipt".

As i described above the process is you submit the application, get a receipt for it within 10 days (as per the Commissioners Guidelines)...........

Commissioner's Guidelines wrote:

All applications will be examined at the district office (or divisional office if the application refers to a restricted firearm) to ensure their validity and written notification will be forwarded to the applicant of its validity within 10 working days of receipt at the station

...................., wait for the application to b processed, and within 3 months get a decision. If successful you get the granted letter, if not a refusal. If it's the grant you pay at the PO and your license arrives within the week.

The problem arises when this never happens. Not once have i, or anyone i know, ever received the receipt either at all, or within 10 days. 100% of the time i've received it either just before the grant letter arrives, with the grant letter or on some occasions after the grant letter.

So i used to ask for a receipt but now bring my own. If they refuse to sign it i take it home and try again later. If they still refuse to sign it i send it by registered post. all of that only applies if i cannot put it in the hands of my FO.

Vizzy wrote: »

He told me "nothing gets misplaced here" and he wrote down his name and said "you will know my name from now on,Mr X".

That is something at least. It doesn't have to be a novel just a basic receipt/acknowledgement of the forms being handed in.

goz83

I dropped into the station again tonight. The FO is off. I explained the situation in brief to the Gard and he took a copy of the dox I was to submit. He signed, I signed and he said he would put it in the pigeon hole for the FO. That's something.

Vizzy

Update on this.

Handed in my applications on 31/3/2016 and the approvals arrived today in the post. They were posted on 5th April so a 7 day turnaround.:D

Credit where credit is due.

Delighted. Only need to pay for them now.

DannyyBoy

UPDATE:
So I finally got a "receipt" in the post to say they have received the application, the super will review it and it can take up to 3 months...blah...blah. It is dated exactly 10 days after I handed in the application but I didn't receive it until 3 weeks after that point Hmmmm let's hope for the best, let the real wait commence!

BTW I have scoured this forum nonstop and read close to almost every post about licencing for the last 3 years, I love all the information that is on here. Now that I know a bit more about the process of applying for a licence I realized a few things I could of done better.

What do you lads think of this, I applied for the rifle mainly for Varmint control on my own land, which is about 10 acres (not much I know). Since we have horses and other peoples cattle on the lads for most of the year we didn't want to put down poison and the likes because of the obvious risks it poses, so getting a rifle was the next best thing. Now this was the only permission I put down on the application as I didn't know of anywhere else I could shoot at the time and I didn't know it would be better to put down 2 large permissions.

Since putting in the application I have been to the local rifle club about 5 times to see what it was like, I didn't think I would enjoy it but boy did it get me hooked. I want to join the club, but since I'm a student I don't really have €150 to splash on a membership that I may not ever get to avail of if my application get's refused. So obviously that didn't go on the application either. I am a member of a shotgun club for the last 7 years, and after having a quick chat with one of the founding members of the club, he said that I could shoot on the land and help with any pests that were about. Now I know it's too little too late at this point, but do you think the Super will just throw my application away or do you think there is a chance they might come back to me and ask any more questions so that I can provide them with some more information? Or what could I do to help the process?

Cass

Firstly, glad to hear it's being processed.

DannyyBoy wrote: »

Or what could I do to help the process?

At this point not much. If they have any issues they'll contact you.

In my experience the receipt you received comes in three ways:

1. Before you get the license
2. At the same time you get the license
3. After you get the license

As two and three are now moot it's most likely option 1. Therefore (and it's by no means a guarantee) i'd expect a grant letter shortly. Maybe even this week.

Fingers crossed all should go well.

However in the future you have the gist of it so run with that process when applying again (and there will be again )

DannyyBoy

Cass lad you are a great asset to this forum, thanks for the help. Sure look I will wait and see what happens, I haven't heard anything from my referees that they have had a call or anything but I'm hopeful to get contacted again in the next month.

arrowloopboy

The problem with Enniscorthy is that you rarely see the same guard twice,i deal in oilgate ,and theirs only 1 guard /partime ,and it makes the whole process so much easier.
More importantly,what are you buying:D.

DannyyBoy

arrowloopboy wrote: »

The problem with Enniscorthy is that you rarely see the same guard twice,i deal in oilgate ,and theirs only 1 guard /partime ,and it makes the whole process so much easier.
More importantly,what are you buying:D.

Yeah that is so true, I wasn't expecting many Garda to be working in the station, I dealt with a female garda when I handed in my application, I went back the next day to hand in another piece of information and he asked who did you deal with last time, I said a lady Garda and he then tells that is very useful as there is over 20 female Gards in the station, nevermind the rest of the male Garda Hahaha

I put a deposit on a CZ 452 Style rifle in .22lr, god just thinking about it now and I'm dying to get the rifle and fire off a few shots at the range

DannyyBoy

Another Update:
So I have the Supers secretary a ring and she kindly check my application and rang me back later. She told me the Super wants to have a meeting which I'm happy to do, more than likely it will be questions about why you want the gun, moderator etc right?

If you have been reading this thread you would know I didn't have any permissions on my application except my own property, do you think it is worth signing up with the local rifle range, or is it too late now? I was going to do it after I got the rifle so I didn't waist the money if I got refused. Do you think it would help to show him I'm a member of a rifle range or just seem weird that I'm adding in information now?

freddieot

Personally I'd join up. I don't think it would hurt.

You could explain to him that you had always the intention of joining the range but could not do it until now as you needed to get the cash together first. That's pretty true for a lot of people as setting up in target shooting is not cheap.

As you were meeting him anyway, you decided to stretch yourself to pay for the membership as soon as you could just to have everything on side from the get go and you know they 'prefer' if people join a club before getting the firearm.

Then you have the land and the club membership.

Luckysasha

I got my .22 rifle for pest control on our farm. The only question I was asked by the guard handling my application was how big was the farm. Anything over 40 acres is grand he told me.

BattleCorp

DannyyBoy wrote: »

Another Update:
So I have the Supers secretary a ring and she kindly check my application and rang me back later. She told me the Super wants to have a meeting which I'm happy to do, more than likely it will be questions about why you want the gun, moderator etc right?

If you have been reading this thread you would know I didn't have any permissions on my application except my own property, do you think it is worth signing up with the local rifle range, or is it too late now? I was going to do it after I got the rifle so I didn't waist the money if I got refused. Do you think it would help to show him I'm a member of a rifle range or just seem weird that I'm adding in information now?

You have your application submitted so you can't really put down target shooting as your reason for having the firearm at this stage. A better and cheaper idea might be to bring a few more land permissions to the meeting. Surely you know some people who would be willing to give you permissions?

DannyyBoy

BattleCorp wrote: »

You have your application submitted so you can't really put down target shooting as your reason for having the firearm at this stage. A better and cheaper idea might be to bring a few more land permissions to the meeting. Surely you know some people who would be willing to give you permissions?

Yeah that's what I was thinking, I can't really get any other permissions right now as I knew a farmer well that had 400 acres but he isn't allowing anyone in the land this year! So I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment, I won't be able to get any more permissions even though I want too as I'm up in college until I travel home to meet him...

cookimonster

DannyyBoy wrote: »

...... I am a member of a shotgun club for the last 7 years, and after a quick chat with one of the founding members of the club, he said that I could shoot on the land and help with any pests that were about.....

When you say 'shotgun club' do you mean clays or game, if it's game then why don't you use your membership for your permissions, many an avid game shooter possess a rifle for vermin control.
If it's clays then obviously it's a different kettle and any permission given would be particular to circumstances of the club's set up.

DannyyBoy

FINAL UPDATE: So I just had the chat with the Super and my application was refused on the grounds that I don't have a reason for possession of the firearm. I am in college at the moment, so not at home 4 days a week as I go to college in Dublin. He said that I would barely get out to shoot the rifle as I'm not home that often and it's a big responsibility for my parents to have a firearm in the house when I'm gone. Even though my father has a shotgun in the safe. The other reason was that the size of the land I have is not suitable for dealing with vermin with a firearm, as it's only 10 acres, which I understand.

I told him I'm a member of a Gun club, and have been for 5 years, that shoots game and has many people in the club that go our shooting vermin on land that is owned my farmers but they give permission to the gunclub to shoot on. I have been out shadowing my Father and Cousin many times when we were out shooting, they were showing me what they do and why.

He basically gave me those two points as reasons for refusal, told me to concentrate on my studies in college and come back in a few years.

I had been in a bit of trouble with the Garda once about 3 years ago, a very small possession of weed, which he brought up and asked me about, but I gave honest answers and told him how I have changed myself taking up a lot of sport etc and it taught me a invaluable lesson. He said that I showed good intentions and it didn't really effect his decision making.

Not much I can really do here then is there? He came across as a person who is not a big fan of firearms, and told me there are too many people with firearms out there. I was hoping to join you guys in the wonderful world of shooting but I guess this is not my calling, I hope you guys enjoy your shooting

P.S. He told me I it was my right to bring it to the court to appeal it, but I'm just a student with not a huge amount of money and would have no idea what to do, so I told him I probably wouldn't but still unsure.

BattleCorp

DannyyBoy wrote: »

FINAL UPDATE: So I just had the chat with the Super and my application was refused on the grounds that I don't have a reason for possession of the firearm. I am in college at the moment, so not at home 4 days a week as I go to college in Dublin. He said that I would barely get out to shoot the rifle as I'm not home that often and it's a big responsibility for my parents to have a firearm in the house when I'm gone. Even though my father has a shotgun in the safe. The other reason was that the size of the land I have is not suitable for dealing with vermin with a firearm, as it's only 10 acres, which I understand.

I told him I'm a member of a Gun club, and have been for 5 years, that shoots game and has many people in the club that go our shooting vermin on land that is owned my farmers but they give permission to the gunclub to shoot on. I have been out shadowing my Father and Cousin many times when we were out shooting, they were showing me what they do and why.

He basically gave me those two points as reasons for refusal, told me to concentrate on my studies in college and come back in a few years.

I had been in a bit of trouble with the Garda once about 3 years ago, a very small possession of weed, which he brought up and asked me about, but I gave honest answers and told him how I have changed myself taking up a lot of sport etc and it taught me a invaluable lesson. He said that I showed good intentions and it didn't really effect his decision making.

Not much I can really do here then is there? He came across as a person who is not a big fan of firearms, and told me there are too many people with firearms out there. I was hoping to join you guys in the wonderful world of shooting but I guess this is not my calling, I hope you guys enjoy your shooting

P.S. He told me I it was my right to bring it to the court to appeal it, but I'm just a student with not a huge amount of money and would have no idea what to do, so I told him I probably wouldn't but still unsure.

Did you get a refusal in writing?

If you get two permissions from farmers there is nothing to stop you applying again tomorrow.

Don't be so hasty to give up.