A little advice needed.

BrownTrout

DannyyBoy wrote:

I told him I'm a member of a Gun club, and have been for 5 years, that shoots game and has many people in the club that go our shooting vermin on land that is owned my farmers but they give permission to the gunclub to shoot on. I have been out shadowing my Father and Cousin many times when we were out shooting, they were showing me what they do and why.

Surely he can't refuse you if your in a gun club and have hunting as your reason for wanting a gun?

Cass

DannyyBoy wrote: »

FINAL UPDATE: So I just had the chat with the Super and my application was refused on the grounds that I don't have a reason for possession of the firearm.

If you only shoot once a year that is your choice. The Super's job is not to deem how often you shoot and if its enough, its to determine whether you are a suitable person to hold a firearm.

The other reason was that the size of the land I have is not suitable for dealing with vermin with a firearm, as it's only 10 acres, which I understand.

You said earlier you never mentioned club membership on the application, but if you told him in person that should suffice. Did you provide proof in the form of club membership details, etc?

Not much I can really do here then is there?

Yes. Plenty.

Appeal it if you want. You get the refusal in writing (VERY IMPORTANT), and then lodge an appeal with the district courts.. It doesn't cost much to do this part. The case itself can cost a bit, but if successful you can claim for expenses.

He came across as a person who is not a big fan of firearms, and told me there are too many people with firearms out there.

That is his opinion and not part of his job. He determines the suitability of an applicant and does not legislate. Firearms are legal, so if some bias was involved in his decision making you have a stronger case for appealing.

The first thing you do is get that refusal in writing as you are entitled to. If you intend to appeal you must logde the appeal in the court within 30 days of the date of the refusal (written one). Get the refusal, and then take a little time to decide how you want to proceed.

As Battelcorp said you can re-apply immediately. The Super is trying to bluff you by saying come back in a few years. He has no legal authority to set a time frame on when you apply. The law makes no such restrictions so the Super most definitely does not.

DannyyBoy

I'm waiting on the refusal in writing as we speak, it should be the end of the week.

Since he told me verbally that I was refused for "not having a reason for holding a firearm", I was thinking that now I am a member of a Rifle Shooting Club, should I reapply with target shooting as my reason, as I genuinely really like it, I feel like it's more black and white than him deciding if my land is big enough to shoot on blah....blah..

Or will he come back and say you changed your reasons, and find any excuse to refuse me again? I know you guys will never know what will actually happen just wanted some opinions from experienced gun owners.

Now one of the main points he had a problem with was that I was in college in Dublin 4 days a week i.e. not at home. He said having a firearm in the house is "a big responsibility for your mother". I understand where he is coming from completely, but if it is locked up in a safe that meets all the laws requirements is that not enough? It felt like he just wanted any reason to doubt my application, and make a point that he didn't want me to have it while I was still young and in my college years.

Cass

When you join a target range they keep a membership list. Each year (actually twice a year under legislation) the range may be audited/checked but at least every year the range informs the local Supers Office who has rejoined and who has not. The reason for this is there is a trend of people joining to get a firearms license they ordinarily wouldn't get and then not bothering to attend. As the license lasts for 3 years the issue rarely comes up between renewals.

That being said if you have joined/are joining and intend on going then by all means re-apply. If you get called in again you simply tell the Super that your first need for the firearm as hunting, but you also intended to join a range to target shoot. The refusal simply sped up your plan to join. When you re-apply make sure to tick hunting and target shooting on the reason for this firearm box. If you are a member of a gun club then supply the membership details of the club too.

With regard to the spending 4 days a week in Dublin. Very politely ask the Super to point out where in ANY legislation it says that you must shoot either competitively, frequently or "X" amount of times per year. This might seem like smart thing to do, but its a genuine question. If has used this as a reason to refuse you i'll be dumbfounded. I know he said it to you, but i cannot wait to see what is said on your refusal. I'll almost guarantee he won't be saying that as there is no basis in law for it.

Lastly about your Mother. I got this for a while as i keep my guns stored in my Fathers house. The security we had we tens times more than level 4 on the list and we were licensed on each others firearms so i could not afford the thousands it would take to set up the same security in my own house. I got my Father and Mother to write to a letter (about three lines) saying they gave me permission to store my firearms in their house. I then got my Father to add a personal note that he was a firearm owner and we shot together regularly.

You can do the same. Write i yourself and have your Mother sign it, or have her write it herself. Just outline that she has no issues with a firearm being stored on the premises as your Father already is a firearm owner, and that she has no access to the safe, or knowledge of where the safe keys are stored. This will void any "concerns" the Super has about your firearm being in the house when he discovers such a situation already exists.

Just remember you cannot give too much information. However as i said above i'm fairly confident that the refusal will not say half of what he said to you in person as the issue about time spent shooting, etc. is not a legal requirement. Supers and Chief Supers tried this years ago when lads were re-applying for pistols and semi auto rifles. They demanded range attendance records, competition attendance records, etc. While everyone was able to provide these any person that did not meet whatever standard the Super/CS set out was refused. This is illegal and when the lads received their refusals in writing it only said about concern for the public safety.

Luckysasha

Correct my if I'm wrong, my understanding is if your shooting at a range only and storing the gun there, then you don't need to license it.

BattleCorp

Luckysasha wrote: »

Correct my if I'm wrong, my understanding is if your shooting at a range only and storing the gun there, then you don't need to license it.

Yes, that's true but that's of no use if you want to shoot at other ranges etc.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Yes, that's true but that's of no use if you want to shoot at other ranges etc.

I'd apply again straight away showing proof of membership of a range/rifle club/2 permissions for hunting/vermin control.

Cass

As Battlecorp said you can, but it's very restrictive. No bringing it home, to other ranges, etc.

Its a very useful tool for a beginner, for someone that wants to try shooting, for someone that only shoots on one range, doesn't want the gun stored at home, etc. For me it simply wouldn't suit, but it might for others.

The OP seems to want to do vermin control too so it might not be an option.

Cass

BTW, when you get the refusal and re-apply you will have to tick the box that asks "Have you ever been refused a license".