Tesla Model 3

ted1

I think for euro sales they had to go with the lower priced model. PAYE and VAT just makes the other cars to expensive

Shefwedfan

Interesting, I might be ordering a tesla after all.....

Still no sign of RHD prices so will see when they arrive

CFC007

Autopilot reduced from 5k down to 3k. Hopefully we’ll see some pricing soon for us.

ted1

“If a $35,000 car is still too rich for your blood, during a call with Musk, he stated that cheaper Tesla vehicles would enter the market in 2-3 years. He reiterated probably closer to three years.”

Is that a new model ?

embraer170

If we compare the price of a US long-range to the same car in European markets, we could expect a European Standard Plus with metallic pain and the basic autopilot to cost about €47,000 (before subsidies).

SaintsYB

When they get rid of brick and mortar stores, how will deliveries take place? They'll still have service centres so to them?

yabadabado

hatrack wrote: »

Looks like the $35,000 Model 3 is finally launching.

Only a few days ago lads here saying it would never happen:rolleyes:
Great news.

unkel

CFC007 wrote: »

Autopilot reduced from 5k down to 3k. Hopefully we’ll see some pricing soon for us.

This seems to be aimed exactly at people like me. I would love a LR AWD performance Model 3 with fully self drive and all other options ticked. EUR100k

But I would never ever buy it. I would happily hand over EUR40k for a base model, I would pay for metallic paint, but no other options. I would have a seriously hard time with myself to justify paying a company EUR5k just to touch a button on a computer screen in their call center that enabled the hardware that I already paid for

But EUR3k would be almost palatable...

Mike9832

yabadabado wrote: »

Only a few days ago lads here saying it would never happen:rolleyes:
Great news.

Board meetings at VW/BMW/MB are going to be interesting Monday morning

Something like this lol

ted1

SaintsYB wrote: »

When they get rid of brick and mortar stores, how will deliveries take place? They'll still have service centres so to them?

I was wondering how it was costing them 6%. I wonder where the staff on commission or are they avoiding state taxes doing it online


Seems to also be big price cuts for the S and X.

Elessar

Musk is some man. A lot of people never thought the 35k model 3 would come until a good few years from now.

RE: the closing of the stores, aren't most Tesla cars delivered direct to customer now? I would imagine they'll keep at least a few stores for people to go see the cars and test drive them.

EDIT: it's another competitive advantage over established car makers. I can see others following suit. God the more I think of it, its a brilliant idea. No more "haggling" (getting shafted) on prices, no more slimy car salesmen. Just the sticker price and a book price on a trade in. Click to order online and it's delivered to your door.

ELM327

Sabre Man wrote: »

And the doubters said Tesla would never make it.

I'm far from a doubter, probably further on the fanboy/cult member side than the doubter side. But I thought it wouldn't happen. I'm delighted that the 35k model is available now, this will absolutely floor everything else, something like 27k in CA for the base model after incentives. This will win huge new sales - I just hope they've not had to do it at a loss.

unkel

Elessar wrote: »

Just the sticker price and a book price on a trade in.

Even better. No trade ins! Well not in Ireland anyway. If you have a car to trade in, they will make a few calls to the trade to help you out to see if someone will take it, but it has nothing to do with them.

Soarer

So it's looking like a Niro, a Kona, an L62, or a Model 3?

I predict a lot of incentives from the Far East.

MrMusician18

Sabre Man wrote: »

And the doubters said Tesla would never make it.

The market looks unimpressed. Trading sharply down in after hours.

hatrack

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The market looks unimpressed. Trading sharply down in after hours.

Tesla hosted a media call also. Musk confirmed Tesla wouldn’t make a profit in Q1 2019. Think that was the driver of the after market move moreso than announcing the SR.

Mike9832

Soarer wrote: »

So it's looking like a Niro, a Kona, an L62, or a Model 3?

I predict a lot of incentives from the Far East.

They'll have to give away the Leaf

Its horrible in comparison

Tesla superchargers or that crap 50kW Chademo should swing it for everyone

josip

Will be interesting to see how things work out without being able to take a test drive.

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

Tesla superchargers or that crap 50kW Chademo should swing it for everyone

Model 3 can charge on Tesla superchargers, ESB and any other public CCS chargers and on Ionity

And all Tesla superchargers in Europe are being provided with CCS connections, started already

Literally best of both worlds.

bk

Mike9832 wrote: »

Board meetings at VW/BMW/MB are going to be interesting Monday morning

LOL, brilliant video

ted1 wrote: »

I was wondering how it was costing them 6%. I wonder where the staff on commission or are they avoiding state taxes doing it online

Probably rent on the stores. They are in the most expensive locations, think in the the middle of high end shopping malls, right next to Apple stores. Couldn't have been cheap.

Also not really the type of places where you'd get a delivery of cars anyway. They were more just show rooms.

Terrible for the staff, but it does make sense. I suspect they will eventually turn the service stations and similar in cheaper locations into showrooms and more like traditional dealerships.

BTW Interesting, they are offering that you can return the car within the first 7 days or 1,000 km of receiving it. So like an extended test drive.

Interestingly in Europe I would assume these fall under the 14 day distance selling cooling off period anyway.

slave1

Soarer wrote: »

So it's looking like a Niro, a Kona, an L62, or a Model 3?

I predict a lot of incentives from the Far East.

LOL, not even close, M3 all the way, can see a lot of company car guys going for M3 with free work charging...

ted1

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, not even close, M3 all the way, can see a lot of company car guys going for M3 with free work charging...

Company cars generally have their fuel paid for. So free work charging doesn’t come into the equation.

What does is can a sales rep drive from Dublin to cork and back without having to stop and charge for half an hour .

josip

bk wrote: »

...

BTW Interesting, they are offering that you can return the car within the first 7 days or 1,000 km of receiving it. So like an extended test drive.
...
Interestingly in Europe I would assume these fall under the 14 day distance selling cooling off period anyway.

One big difference I see between a normal test drive and the free return after 7 days is that you don't have to go through the whole financing application process to have a 15 minute test drive.

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, not even close, M3 all the way, can see a lot of company car guys going for M3 with free work charging...

ted1 wrote: »

Company cars generally have their fuel paid for. So free work charging doesn’t come into the equation.

What does is can a sales rep drive from Dublin to cork and back without having to stop and charge for half an hour .

Not thinking on the road guys, more management with BIK impact...

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

So it's looking like a Niro, a Kona, an L62, or a Model 3?

I predict a lot of incentives from the Far East.

If you had planned on buying a Kona or Niro I would be holding onto your cash for a few months more. They will have to drop from the current price levels with this competition coming into the market....Also would expect Nissan to reset price expectations for the L62....


Competition is good....finally it has arrived.....well kind of arrived

unkel

I don't expect you will see any Model 3 on Irish plates until next year. And I doubt very much if you will even be able to get a $35k model straight away.

But yeah I agree, competition is good! I've said it before, 2020 will be the year of the EV :cool:

KCross

I'm not sure the aforementioned will reduce their prices on this annoucement. Its a 220 mile car that will likely be still ~€40k here? Thats much the same as all of them.

Its more competition but its not like it completely blows them out of the water. Not everyone wants that style of car for a start.

I know it will leave them all for dust performance wise but not everyone cares about performance. Things like autopilot are of limited use in Ireland right now. If you have adaptive cruise and LKAS you have as much as you need for now. I wouldnt further increase the price to get it yet anyway.

Lets see what the OTR price is and then we'll see if it moves the competition or not but very welcome all the same.

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

I'm not sure the aforementioned will reduce their prices on this annoucement. Its a 220 mile car that will likely be still ~€40k here? Thats much the same as all of them.

Its more competition but its not like it completely blows them out of the water. Not everyone wants that style of car for a start.

I know it will leave them all for dust performance wise but not everyone cares about performance. Things like autopilot are of limited use in Ireland right now. If you have adaptive cruise and LKAS you have as much as you need for now. I wouldnt further increase the price to get it yet anyway.

Lets see what the OTR price is and then we'll see if it moves the competition or not but very welcome all the same.

I does blow them out of the water imo

Charge speed, performance, efficiency is way above them all

L62 is just a disgrace in comparison, 50kW Chademo, efficiency of a tank on the motorway and a tesco value battery burning up underneath

As Unkel pointed out you have a private Tesla supercharger network and access to all other networks like Ionity, ESB too

Range anxiety is gone

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

I does blow them out of the water imo

Charge speed, performance, efficiency is way above them all

L62 is just a disgrace in comparison, 50kW Chademo, efficiency of a tank on the motorway and a tesco value battery burning up underneath

As Unkel pointed out you have a private Tesla supercharger network and access to all other networks like Ionity, ESB too

Range anxiety is gone

Most of the time your posts manage to irritate me, but the above is a) 110% correct IMO and b) hilarious to boot. Well done sir.

Idbatterim

The leaf was designed as an electric car! Why is the drag coefficient so bad then ?!

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

I'm not sure the aforementioned will reduce their prices on this annoucement. Its a 220 mile car that will likely be still ~€40k here? Thats much the same as all of them.

Its more competition but its not like it completely blows them out of the water. Not everyone wants that style of car for a start.

I know it will leave them all for dust performance wise but not everyone cares about performance. Things like autopilot are of limited use in Ireland right now. If you have adaptive cruise and LKAS you have as much as you need for now. I wouldnt further increase the price to get it yet anyway.

Lets see what the OTR price is and then we'll see if it moves the competition or not but very welcome all the same.

At the moment really Kona is the only show in town. It is way overpriced. Even look at the eGolf, still expensive for a car which be about to be replaced.



Any competition will be welcome. With the introduction of Model 3, ID, ID offspring, Niro, Kona etc etc the price will only go one way.....

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

I does blow them out of the water imo

Charge speed, performance, efficiency is way above them all

L62 is just a disgrace in comparison, 50kW Chademo, efficiency of a tank on the motorway and a tesco value battery burning up underneath

As Unkel pointed out you have a private Tesla supercharger network and access to all other networks like Ionity, ESB too

Range anxiety is gone

efficiency doesnt matter. Its range matters and its a 220 mile car. Much the same as the EV's in the same price bracket.

With that increased range the charging network is less of an issue unless you are up and down the motorways everyday, which most people are not.

I'd agree the L62 would be a bad buy in comparison on nearly all metrics but the others not so much.... plenty chargers and range available to them.

All I'm saying is I dont see big price reductions from those EV's. What will happen is that ICE sales are going to start hurting big time for the likes of BMW, Audi.... when they start arriving in numbers, of course.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Things like autopilot are of limited use in Ireland right now. If you have adaptive cruise and LKAS you have as much as you need for now.

Interestingly, Tesla have just offered this on the continent yesterday for $3,200. Before yesterday the only option was full autopilot for €5,000. This has now gone up in price a bit

ELM327 wrote: »

110% correct

Now that irritates me!

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the moment really Kona is the only show in town. It is way overpriced. Even look at the eGolf, still expensive for a car which be about to be replaced.



Any competition will be welcome. With the introduction of Model 3, ID, ID offspring, Niro, Kona etc etc the price will only go one way.....

The one that will be most exposed will be the Leaf.

This $35k Model 3 is still 6 months + away so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Interestingly, Tesla have just offered this on the continent yesterday for $3,200. Before yesterday the only option was full autopilot for €5,000. This has now gone up in price a bit

In the context of Irish roads, would you pay €3k for it?
I dont think I would, I'd rather pay the extra €2k for the premium interior stuff.

Each to their own I suppose.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

In the context of Irish roads, would you pay €3k for it?
I dont think I would, I'd rather pay the extra €2k for the premium interior stuff.

Each to their own I suppose.

I reluctantly pay for metallic paint as I hate white cars. After that I would normally not tick anything!

That said, a Tesla without AP would just not feel right. But €5.2k for autopilot that doesn't yet work? It would be a hard sell to myself. Can't say if I would or wouldn't. That said, it will soon come with hardware 3 and according to Elon it should provide level 5 autonomous driving this year. Go to sleep on the back seat and it will drive you to work :cool:

Of course this won't work in Ireland this year, or even next. But who knows how far away it really is?

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the moment really Kona is the only show in town. It is way overpriced. Even look at the eGolf, still expensive for a car which be about to be replaced.



Any competition will be welcome. With the introduction of Model 3, ID, ID offspring, Niro, Kona etc etc the price will only go one way.....

Unfortunately with so many available the grants etc could be scaled back

Sabre Man

unkel wrote: »

I reluctantly pay for metallic paint as I hate white cars. After that I would normally not tick anything!

That said, a Tesla without AP would just not feel right. But €5.2k for autopilot that doesn't yet work? It would be a hard sell to myself. Can't say if I would or wouldn't. That said, it will soon come with hardware 3 and according to Elon it should provide level 5 autonomous driving this year. Go to sleep on the back seat and it will drive you to work :cool:

Of course this won't work in Ireland this year, or even next. But who knows how far away it really is?

Autopilot works great. I presume you meant full self driving.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

I reluctantly pay for metallic paint as I hate white cars. After that I would normally not tick anything!

Transport Evolved said the default colour is black.

Gile_na_gile

Presuming Tesla survives and gets Model 3s on the road in Ireland for 30k including grants around Q2 2020, this would totally disincentivise the Leaf 62 at the same or similar price, or any other similar car. The pricing is so aggressive it reminds me of Tesco's bread promotions!



I had already thought about selling L40 in 3-4 years and upgrading to Model 3 for that range, but the pressure is being racheted up on all car makers at the moment. Also great to see Audi actually advertising the e-tron - there are almost no other EVs advertised.

josip

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Presuming ... and gets Model 3s on the road in Ireland for 30k including grants around Q2 2020,

That's a very big presumption.
I suspect that by the time the base model Tesla is available here, there will be little to no purchase incentives.

rivegauche

Soarer wrote: »

Transport Evolved said the default colour is black.

option paint on a Tesla is very expensive in the U.S.

ted1

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Also great to see Audi actually advertising the e-tron - there are almost no other EVs advertised.

Except the self charging Toyotas !!

Shefwedfan

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Also great to see Audi actually advertising the e-tron - there are almost no other EVs advertised.

VW are started, finally, advertising the eGolf.



I am laughing looking at Facebook today and all these comments from people about how great eGolf is and WOW it is electric....none of them have any idea it is around since 2015

bk

josip wrote: »

One big difference I see between a normal test drive and the free return after 7 days is that you don't have to go through the whole financing application process to have a 15 minute test drive.

True, one option is they could come to your home to do a test drive. No need for expensive real estate.

Tesla weren't doing normal test drives out of their show rooms anyway. Think of a store inside the middle of Dundrum shopping center! That is what they are often like in the US. For test drives I think they were bringing people out to the shopping centers car park where they had a few chargers.

Test drives from home or a service center seem like decent alternatives.

Idbatterim wrote: »

The leaf was designed as an electric car! Why is the drag coefficient so bad then ?!

I'd argue it was only partly designed as an electric car. It shares most of it's body, etc. with their other cars. It is more EV then just sticking batteries in the boot like some companies, but not a true clean sheet, ground up EV like the Tesla's.

I'd have to disagree with KCross, this is is going to have a massive effect not just to other EV's, but across all cars.

Obviously we will have to wait and see how much it costs here, but let say it does cost 40k. Well I can't see anyone buying a Kona for 37k anymore, it will need to drop quiet a bit.

Prius, I'd say totally stuffed. In particular Prius+ (36k) and Prius Plug-in (37k and up) will be in big trouble.

I'd even argue that the type of people who usually buy a BMW 3 series, Merc C Class, etc. might well give it a close look.

I expect their are many very worried execs in the traditional cars companies today.

unkel

bk wrote: »

I'd even argue that the type of people who usually buy a BMW 3 series, Merc C Class, etc. might well give it a close look.

In the USA the sales of Merc C class and in particular BMW 3-series dropped like a brick even just before the Model 3 was released. It immediately became the best selling junior executive premium car when it went on sale. It's not gonna lose that position for a long time.

bk wrote: »

I expect their are many very worried execs in the traditional cars companies today.

+1

Shefwedfan

eGolf: Drag Coefficient. 0.27
Leaf Gen 1: 0.29
Leaf Gen 2: 0.28

Sticking the batteries in the boot if done correctly can also work :-)

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

In the USA the sales of Merc C class and in particular BMW 3-series dropped like a brick even just before the Model 3 was released. It immediately became the best selling junior executive premium car when it went on sale. It's not gonna lose that position for a long time.



+1

Sales of cars in US market have been dropping like a brick for years. Nothing to do with Tesla. The market has shifted to SUV's/Crossovers....


Tesla is number 1 in a market that is shrinking and most of the big players are not focused on anymore. Ford have said they are stopping cars, VW are not even bothering to bring the ID Neo to US market.....


Tesla probably will continue to be number 1 in that market but the question is will they sell enough cars into that space to make the company profitable.



I expect the Model 3 Crossover could be pushed out ASAP, it will be interesting to see how they sell against RAV4 etc

Gile_na_gile

josip wrote: »

That's a very big presumption.
I suspect that by the time the base model Tesla is available here, there will be little to no purchase incentives.

I'd say they'll keep some form of grant there until 10% BEV market penetration, and even then it will have to be balanced against EU fines for GHG emissions. I'd also guess 2025 for when pricing favours BEVs without aids.

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

eGolf: Drag Coefficient. 0.27
Leaf Gen 1: 0.29
Leaf Gen 2: 0.28

Sticking the batteries in the boot if done correctly can also work :-)

The first gen Leaf might look like a brick, but the aerodynamics of 0.29 really isn't all that bad (although I think I read somewhere that the actual figure is 0.32)

Problem with the Leaf (even the current model) is that it uses outdated motor and drivetrain that are very inefficient compared to what Hyundai/Kia, VW, BMW and Tesla have. And that the gearing goes against higher speeds, which makes the inefficiency worst at higher speeds. Thus giving a very short range for the battery size. 2018 Leaf has 40kWh but less motorway range than 2016 Ioniq with 28kWh