Instructor refusing to provide stamped log book

Mervyn Skidmore

This morning my wife completed her 12th lesson. When finished, she asked the instructor for her log book. She had asked several times previously about the log book but he said that he keeps all his students books. This morning he said he would only give her the book with 9 stamps on it as he said they were 3 lessons behind. He wants another €105 for 3 more lessons. She said that she was not happy with this and wanted the log book fully stamped as she had fully paid for and had 12 lessons. She didn't like this instructor from day 1 but we had paid up front. I called the RSA and they said that he should not be keeping her log book and that he should sign it after each lesson. As someone who got their licence years ago, I didn't really research it at all. After all, when you pay for an approved instructor, you expect a standard service. What options are open to her? These lessons were a Christmas gift and they have been a total disaster and have stressed us out completely.

J_R

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

This morning my wife completed her 12th lesson. When finished, she asked the instructor for her log book. She had asked several times previously about the log book but he said that he keeps all his students books. This morning he said he would only give her the book with 9 stamps on it as he said they were 3 lessons behind. He wants another €105 for 3 more lessons. She said that she was not happy with this and wanted the log book fully stamped as she had fully paid for and had 12 lessons. She didn't like this instructor from day 1 but we had paid up front. I called the RSA and they said that he should not be keeping her log book and that he should sign it after each lesson. As someone who got their licence years ago, I didn't really research it at all. After all, when you pay for an approved instructor, you expect a standard service. What options are open to her? These lessons were a Christmas gift and they have been a total disaster and have stressed us out completely.

Hi,

First go to :- MyEDT , follow the instructions for signing up/in.
Your instructor should have uploaded/updated these records after each lesson. If there is no record, contact RSA giving the name, ADI number and address of the instructor. Also a list of the dates your wife had the lessons.

The record book should have been completed and handed to your wife at the end of each lesson, however it is not essential, but the MyEDT online records are, these must be completed before your wife can sit the test.

He has no authority whatsoever to demand your wife take an additional three lessons. The law merely requires that a learner driver completes twelve hours tuition. This could be 12 x 1 hour lessons, 6 x 2 hour lessons etc etc.

FYI
When the EDT was launched the law was :-
Road Traffic (Courses of Instruction) (Learner Permit Holders) Regulations 2011
Relevant Para

(3) A person undergoing lessons 1 to 8 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers is not entitled to progress to the next lesson or any subsequent lesson of the course unless he or she has demonstrated the necessary knowledge and ability for the procedures and processes of the proceeding lesson of the course to the satisfaction of the instructor

This meant that the driving instructor could refuse to sign off on a lesson Gave them a blank cheque .

However this was very quickly altered to :-

Road Traffic (Courses of Instruction) (Learner Permit Holders) (Amendment) Regulations 2012
Again relevant para

(3) A person may only undergo each of lessons 2 to 8 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers if he or she holds a logbook issued to him or her on which an instructor has signed and stamped the pages relating to the immediately preceding lesson as set out in the Schedule.

(3A) A person may only undergo any of lessons 9 to 12 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers if he or she holds a logbook issued to him or her on which an instructor has signed and stamped the pages relating to lesson 8.”.

My advice, give him one last chance to immediately upload the lessons (all 12). An hour or two should do. If he refuses contact the RSA If you wish send him the URL of this post.

Mervyn Skidmore

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

First go to :- MyEDT , follow the instructions for signing up/in.
Your instructor should have uploaded/updated these records after each lesson. If there is no record, contact RSA giving the name, ADI number and address of the instructor. Also a list of the dates your wife had the lessons.

The record book should have been completed and handed to your wife at the end of each lesson, however it is not essential, but the MyEDT online records are, these must be completed before your wife can sit the test.

He has no authority whatsoever to demand your wife take an additional three lessons. The law merely requires that a learner driver completes twelve hours tuition. This could be 12 x 1 hour lessons, 6 x 2 hour lessons etc etc.

FYI
When the EDT was launched the law was :-
Road Traffic (Courses of Instruction) (Learner Permit Holders) Regulations 2011
Relevant Para


This meant that the driving instructor could refuse to sign off on a lesson Gave them a blank cheque .

However this was very quickly altered to :-

Road Traffic (Courses of Instruction) (Learner Permit Holders) (Amendment) Regulations 2012
Again relevant para




My advice, give him one last chance to immediately upload the lessons (all 12). An hour or two should do. If he refuses contact the RSA If you wish send him the URL of this post.

Thanks a million for all the info. We checked the RSA website and none of her lessons have been uploaded despite the fact that she did the first lesson back in October! We have emailed the RSA and will see what they have to say about it. I think we're passed the point of communicating with him further but If they're not uploaded in a week I'll write him a letter. If they're not done a week after that I suppose Small Claims is the only option open to me. Hopefully the RSA will do something about it.

J_R

Hi,

perhaps you could drop into the local Garda Station ? He has in effect robbed your wife of both time and money. Have him charged with theft ???,

J_R

Hi,


any update ???

Mervyn Skidmore

J_R wrote: »

Hi,


any update ???

Hi, have passed on all info to the RSA and they are looking into it. Will update when something happens.

Mervyn Skidmore

Just an update on my issue if anyone is interested. Well, 18 months later after my wife had her first lesson, she still has not gotten her log book. Have contacted the RSA umpteen times but still no book. The instructor has different excuses every time they speak to him. His last excuse was that he didn't have our address (despite writing numerous letters to him). Again we gave him the address 3 weeks ago. Still no sign of the logbook so contacted the RSA again today. Now he says he won't post the book to her until she forwards the postage fee to him first (€3). The whole episode has driven us demented and I thought with the introduction of the RSA the whole process would be improved. Anyway not sure what to do next. Won't be sending him the money so I suppose it's start the whole process again or bring him to court. Very surprised with how toothless the RSA is.

J_R

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Just an update on my issue if anyone is interested. Well, 18 months later after my wife had her first lesson, she still has not gotten her log book. Have contacted the RSA umpteen times but still no book. The instructor has different excuses every time they speak to him. His last excuse was that he didn't have our address (despite writing numerous letters to him). Again we gave him the address 3 weeks ago. Still no sign of the logbook so contacted the RSA again today. Now he says he won't post the book to her until she forwards the postage fee to him first (€3). The whole episode has driven us demented and I thought with the introduction of the RSA the whole process would be improved. Anyway not sure what to do next. Won't be sending him the money so I suppose it's start the whole process again or bring him to court. Very surprised with how toothless the RSA is.

Hi,

That is crazy, unbelievable. Has he uploaded to the RSA website ?? If not, what is his excuse. ?

ADI stands for Approved Driving Instructor- By the Road Safety Authority, so how can he remain Approved by the RSA if he does not follow proper procedures. He should be immediately UN-approved, licence to teach revoked.

Have you tried to put the onus completely on the RSA to sort out their ADI. Pointing out you have tried unsuccessfully for eighteen months. He really is their responsibility.

Do you have an old diary (or two), with the times of the lessons. ?

Mervyn Skidmore

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

That is crazy, unbelievable. Has he uploaded to the RSA website ?? If not, what is his excuse. ?

ADI stands for Approved Driving Instructor- By the Road Safety Authority, so how can he remain Approved by the RSA if he does not follow proper procedures. He should be immediately UN-approved, licence to teach revoked.

Have you tried to put the onus completely on the RSA to sort out their ADI. Pointing out you have tried unsuccessfully for eighteen months. He really is their responsibility.

Do you have an old diary (or two), with the times of the lessons. ?

Hi jr,

Yes, we find the whole thing unbelievable too. He has uploaded 9 lessons with all incorrect dates, and we have sent the RSA the correct dates the lessons were on. I've also brought up the issue that he's approved by them, but they just say that he has met the required teaching standard. If conduct has nothing to do with being approved then it's insane. He's insisting that the log book was available at all times and they say they can only go by what people tell them. Then I brought up the point that if the log book was freely available, why didn't he return it after the last lesson? Anyway the whole thing has put my wife off driving here.

Taytomal

Time to Name and Shame, I think - if only to save someone else the problems that you have been having...

greyc

You should ring the RSA and demand to speak to someone in the ADI section and have the matter sorted immediately. Your wife doesn't strictly need the logbook as she doesn't have to present it when doing the test, that's not to say that this so called instructor is entitled to keep it, but the remaining 3 lessons should be updated straight away.

I know someone in the RSA so I'll pm you their name and direct number. That guy should be struck off.

Nekarsulm

I'd sit outside his door till he produced it. Embarrass him in front of the next pupil, warn them what he's like.

J_R

greyc wrote: »

You should ring the RSA and demand to speak to someone in the ADI section and have the matter sorted immediately. Your wife doesn't strictly need the logbook as she doesn't have to present it when doing the test, that's not to say that this so called instructor is entitled to keep it, but the remaining 3 lessons should be updated straight away.

I know someone in the RSA so I'll pm you their name and direct number. That guy should be struck off.

+1
I would follow above advice or drop out to the driving test center, have a chat with the supervisor and/or an examiner.

I think you were fobbed off by a lowly clerk in the RSA who does not know the law. Get up the food chain a little.

I think the instructor (?) is mistaken in that he believes he can refuse to sign off on a lesson. He can not, as per
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/4/made/en/print
he MUST sign off the lesson, irrespective if objective of the lesson was achieved or not. He is not qualified to judge.

Moreover the log book is now irrelevant, lesson must be uploaded before the RSA credits the learner with that lesson.

Spread the word. He is obviously ripping off his pupils.


PS to Mods. I can no longer follow links on Boards.ie get taken to http://go.redirectingat.com/?rdrflb=1 instead. That is unless the link inserted as above link in this post