conflict over communion

January

GarIT wrote: »

Something I really hope parents take into account is how permanent this is.

I wasn't given a choice although if I remember correctly I was telling everyone that would listen I didn't believe but wanted the money.

Since I have been in contact with the RCC several times and they refuse to remove the records of me being baptised, christened or confirmed or append a note saying I had left the church like they used to do.

Most of the websites which let you look up ancestors use church records as one of their sources and the RCC has confirmed that they will tell any organisation that asks that I am, always have been and always will be a Catholic. I don't want this, I don't want to be associated with what I believe to be a terrible organisation but they wont let me leave. They are completely willing to fight it in court and I just can't find any way out of this mess. So please be aware of what you might be getting your kids into.

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

Toots

January wrote: »

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

There used to be one but they stopped accepting it a few years ago AFAIK. I remember looking into it myself, but my husband is a practicing Catholic and if I'd opted out we wouldn't have been able to have a church wedding so I left it alone.

January

They should let you opt out but I don't agree with removing records of baptisms etc.

nikkibikki

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

January

nikkibikki wrote: »

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

No, our 'do' will be in the community centre my husband works in with a bouncy castle, finger food and entertainer for the kids for a few hours and then we will go home. No drinking sessions for us either.

DSN

nikkibikki wrote: »

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

We exactly same went so far as to tell teacher we wouldn't b doing it but all 12 were doing it his cousins have done it & he couldn't understand why he couldn't. Like u say if it wasn't in the school we wouldn't even think about it. He enjoying the prep but I don't think it's been all about fHc in his class (think the proclamation took over a lot of the focus before Easter!!!) and we not making a big fuss. Bought him nice chinos n shirt & shoes will have my mother & bro n his family over for a home cooked bite after the class party in parish hall. tho we lucky rest of close family & in laws abroad it's hard for those with bigger families all expecting an invite n to b catered for!! I agree do whatever suits you & your family!!!

GarIT

January wrote: »

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

January

GarIT wrote: »

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

I'm a big old mess anyway. I was baptised roman Catholic and then when I was a teen I was baptised into evangelical Christianity... After your post though I will make sure my daughter is doing the right thing for her so she can't blame me for it when she's older

Toots

AFAIK it's the Confirmation which is the one that really seals the deal as far as being a full Catholic is concerned. I remember chatting with the priest about it at my pre nuptial enquiry thing, and he was of the belief that 12/13 is too young and the kids don't understand what they're really committing to, and it should be left til they're 18 or so. I completely agreed with him.

DonnchadhMac

I don't to be honest I don't think it is such a big deal and it would be best just let them do it just to enjoy it all

pwurple

I don't think you should feel pressured into it by family.

I do think you should take into account your child's feeling on it. I'd be inclined to let them decide themselves.

Feeling like you belong to a group is important... They may feel this is part of it, or may not, because some others are opting out. What are the core group of friends doing?

I remember not going on school tours when i was in school, and i definitely missed out on the shared experiences, stories afterwards etc.

lazygal

I don't think missing out on a school tour is the same as letting an eight year old get involved in a religious ceremony.

lazygal

GarIT wrote: »

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

My parents regret going along with the Catholic thing for us. They only did it because it was the done thing and no because of any faith. They've said if they had their time over they'd be more independent and not swayed by notions about children needing religion etc.

lazygal

Also for those saying let the child decide, is that really advisable? If the child wanted to get involved in another religion because some of their friends were of that faith would you let an eight year old make that decision? Letting children decide on their religion isn't something I'd do.

nikkibikki

I would certainly look into it and research it and if we thought it appropriate, we wouldn't stop them participating.

I agree with the poster who made the point that confirmation should be later but again it's to keep it in primary school so they won't change it. My niece made hers at 10 as they only do it every 2yrs so 5th and 6th make it every 2yrs. She has since decided she's an athiest. She could change her mind a hundred times again during the course of her life.

Lazygal, it's def not good that you can't be allowed to leave RCC any more. Do they still excommunicate people I wonder?

mordeith

lazygal wrote: »

Also for those saying let the child decide, is that really advisable? If the child wanted to get involved in another religion because some of their friends were of that faith would you let an eight year old make that decision? Letting children decide on their religion isn't something I'd do.

Taking the decision out of their hands is why there are so many 'Catholics' making their communion. Give the child the relevant information and 9/10 would go the sensible route. I haven't heard too many kids believe they could actually join the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

eviltwin

I'd be more inclined to let them do it if they were actually doing it for the right reasons. It's the mockery it makes of the event I have an issue with. Most kids are only interested in the money and the princess dress. I'm not religious, I have no time for it but I don't think it's right to take the piss out of it.

endacl

Jayop wrote: »

This is 8 year old kids were talking about and fitting in is important to most of them.

Sure they can all fit into not doing it so.

nikkibikki

endacl wrote:

Sure they can all fit into not doing it so.

If it was taken out of schools, it def would happen! It doesn't mean enough to lots of parents to actually put the work in themselves.

Chocolate fiend

If you do not believe in the church as an organisation then don't let them continue to count your innocent child as one of their members. Two of my 3 are baptised, I regret that but, we will go no further with religious indoctrination. If more people took a stand and removed their children from religious classes, especially the ones who only do it for the party or the day out, or even better for cultural reasons then we would have a much better chance of taking the church out of schools.

As for saying that it is more important to little girls because of the big white dress, that is just insulting to all 8 year old girls.

Neyite

nikkibikki wrote: »

Do they still excommunicate people I wonder?

I looked into it. :P. There are nine grounds, five of which only apply to clergy. The others are:

• If you commit an assault on the pope.
• Desecrating the consecrated host.
• Having had or performed an abortion. (applies to the woman or performing doctor only)
• Apostasy.

You need to write to the bishop, stating the location and date of your baptism, outlining your grounds for excommunication, stating clearly that you knew at the time it was grounds for excommunication, and requesting that your name be removed from their roll of Catholics. They like to hold the door open for 'forgiveness' so you have to be crystal clear that you want out.

Apparently.

Cabaal

January wrote: »

They should let you opt out but I don't agree with removing records of baptisms etc.

They used to allow people to opt out, but the church closed that loop hole a number of years ago.

The catholic church is like hotel California, you can check in but you never get to leave.

Imagine if you joined a political party at 8 years of age and they refused to acknowledge that you've left as a member. :pac:

Boom__Boom

Was talking to a teacher in a Catholic-ethos school in Kerry and the figures in his class this year were 18 not making the Communion and 14 were, so seems that opting out isn't that unusual nowadays.

greenman09

Don't you need the sacraments to get married? Friend of mine had to get confirmed at 40 to get the sacrament of
Marriage. I'd go with it I save this hassle in later life.

Sligo1

greenman09 wrote: »

Don't you need the sacraments to get married? Friend of mine had to get confirmed at 40 to get the sacrament of
Marriage. I'd go with it I save this hassle in later life.

Nope. I didn't make my confirmation. Got married in 2012. Priest was a Monsignor aswell and very strict. Didn't make any difference.

greenman09

greenman09 wrote: »

Don't you need the sacraments to get married? Friend of mine had to get confirmed at 40 to get the sacrament of
Marriage. I'd go with it I save this hassle in later life.

You dont need a church to get married!

Cabaal

greenman09 wrote: »

Don't you need the sacraments to get married? Friend of mine had to get confirmed at 40 to get the sacrament of
Marriage. I'd go with it I save this hassle in later life.

Thats assuming the person in later life want to or is actually allowed by the catholic church to have a religious marriage, many don't. Non-religious marriages are on the increase year on year.

Also what happens if they are gay? The church will see them as sinful and intrinsically disordered and will want nothing to do with any marriage. What hassle have you saved them by signing them up to an organization that sees them as unnatural?

Why not leave it upto them?
If they want a religious marriage and it means that much to them then they can make whatever arrangements they want, its not that big a deal at all for an adult to do such things.

Tasden

greenman09 wrote: »

Don't you need the sacraments to get married? Friend of mine had to get confirmed at 40 to get the sacrament of
Marriage. I'd go with it I save this hassle in later life.

If they view the sacraments as "hassle" then they shouldn't be making them at all.

greenman09

I think with this guy there wasn't proof he made it. Wherever that comes from anyway. I'd say we will get ours communion as we went through it as kids and it's a nice day out for the child also. Everyone can make their own choices. Don't have to please everyone it's their kids.

stesaurus

Neyite wrote: »

I looked into it. :P. There are nine grounds, five of which only apply to clergy. The others are:

• If you commit an assault on the pope.
• Desecrating the consecrated host.
• Having had or performed an abortion. (applies to the woman or performing doctor only)
• Apostasy.

You need to write to the bishop, stating the location and date of your baptism, outlining your grounds for excommunication, stating clearly that you knew at the time it was grounds for excommunication, and requesting that your name be removed from their roll of Catholics. They like to hold the door open for 'forgiveness' so you have to be crystal clear that you want out.

Apparently.

Can anyone get their hands on some communion bread so that we can organise a group desecration and all become excommunicated???
We can dress up and make a fun day of it and go around the neighbours and families and ask for some money afterwards! ðŸ˜