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Thinking of a tri... Pool vs. open water swimming.

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  • 02-04-2016 3:17pm
    #1
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭


    Hi. I have been wondering how do folks on here find their distance in the pool translates to the open water. Thinking about doing a triathlon at some stage, maybe next year.

    The physio has me in the pool 6 weeks now for a back injury and I'm currently swimming about 10-12 lengths of a 25m pool non stop. The 60 lengths to do the 1.5k will be enough/not enough/too many?


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    #2
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    If you plan to do your first Tri next year and you keep on with swim trainings you shouldn't worry too much. I would always suggest you start with a Sprint (even Try-a-Tri if you aren't feeling particularly safe in open-water/with crowd) and build it from there...

    That being said, I don't think there is any formula for what you're asking, but what I would suggest is to train until you can in easy, aerobic fashion swim the distance you're aiming to do and then start adding open-water trainings to gain experience and confidence. Essentially, if waters are calm you don't need much more strength in open water than in pool, but there are other things to factor in like the fear, currents, waves, bunch of people slapping you etc. that can make you a bit uncomfortable first/second time you experience it so getting some open-water experience will be of great benefit ;)


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    #3
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    iAcesHigh wrote: »
    If you plan to do your first Tri next year and you keep on with swim trainings you shouldn't worry too much. I would always suggest you start with a Sprint (even Try-a-Tri if you aren't feeling particularly safe in open-water/with crowd) and build it from there...

    That being said, I don't think there is any formula for what you're asking, but what I would suggest is to train until you can in easy, aerobic fashion swim the distance you're aiming to do and then start adding open-water trainings to gain experience and confidence. Essentially, if waters are calm you don't need much more strength in open water than in pool, but there are other things to factor in like the fear, currents, waves, bunch of people slapping you etc. that can make you a bit uncomfortable first/second time you experience it so getting some open-water experience will be of great benefit ;)

    Thanks for that info. Some short ow swims sound like a plan. End of the summer when the waters warm maybe :P I'm doing the 10ish lengths comfortably enough. Been using the point where I have to go to breathing every other stroke as my benchmark of where I'm at. I do find though even other people swimming in the lane is distracting and upsets my flow but getting more used to that gradually.

    Just getting to the end of 3 months out with a bad back/core muscle tear so not in great shape at the moment. First run on saturday was only 1.5 km but very tough. 5km on the mountain bike was also a hard slog. It will be something to do over the winter. Back hurling training this week so just going to concentrate on slowly pushing out the swimming and bike distance so I've a decent base fitness in all 3 come october/november.


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    #4
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    put it this way, if you were heading out for a night, would you figure out exactly how many drinks you were going to have, and bring just enough money to cover them all, and not a penny more? or would you throw a few extra bob in the pocket just in case?

    same with tri. courses can be long, current can be against you, water can be cold. being able to do 1500m is a good point for a sprint tri with a swim of 750m. if you are barely able to swim 1500m no point jumping into an oly where the swim is that distance. what if the course is long and is 1700m? or 1900m?

    i'd be aiming to be able to do well above your target distance in the pool, and be comfortable doing it. then even if it is long, you're fine


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    #5
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Rule of thumb for training in any discipline is double the distance required always (IMHO). Doing a sprint I would like to be able to swim 1500 cycle or cycle at least 40km (Preferably 80km) and run at least 10km. Remember you have 2 more legs after the swim and if you tire yourself out completely here the bike and run will be a challenge.


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    #6
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    68 lost souls wrote: »
    Rule of thumb for training in any discipline is double the distance required always. Doing a sprint I would like to be able to swim 1500 cycle or cycle at least 40km (Preferably 80km) and run at least 10km. Remember you have 2 more legs after the swim and if you tire yourself out completely here the bike and run will be a challenge.

    7600m for IM swimming?
    360km for IM biking?
    85km for IM running?

    ....
    ....
    ....


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    #7
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    mossym wrote: »
    put it this way, if you were heading out for a night, would you figure out exactly how many drinks you were going to have, and bring just enough money to cover them all, and not a penny more? or would you throw a few extra bob in the pocket just in case?

    same with tri. courses can be long, current can be against you, water can be cold. being able to do 1500m is a good point for a sprint tri with a swim of 750m. if you are barely able to swim 1500m no point jumping into an oly where the swim is that distance. what if the course is long and is 1700m? or 1900m?

    i'd be aiming to be able to do well above your target distance in the pool, and be comfortable doing it. then even if it is long, you're fine

    That makes sense. My first target is a comfortable 1km in the pool and to get into the sea during the summer for a few swims. Test the waters as they say :)


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    #8
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    tunney wrote: »
    7600m for IM swimming?
    360km for IM biking?
    85km for IM running?

    ....
    ....
    ....


    No, your right, more so for Sprint/Olympic distance. IM and Half IM I would consider a different kettle of fish and have no real knowledge on specific training for these distances but for Sprint/Olympic duathlon, aquathon and triathlon I would stand over it.


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    #9
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Interslice wrote: »
    I do find though even other people swimming in the lane is distracting and upsets my flow but getting more used to that gradually.

    I'd advise you to get completely comfortable with this, before you think of entering a race, especially one with an open water swim. The distractions you experience in a pool training session, will be nothing compared to a race; Hundreds of people starting en masse, flailing arms and legs, most of the starters won't be able to swim straight, a lot of them will be prepared to swim over you. You can expect more than a few thumps in any race you do.

    It takes time to get used to, but it's no place to be if a small bit of contact in the pool upsets your flow.


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    #10
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    I also think its worth looking at Kurts thread from last year http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92925315


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    #11
    Interslice
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    68 lost souls wrote: »
    I also think its worth looking at Kurts thread from last year http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92925315


    That looks good thanks. It will refer back to it as I go. Train first ask questions later :p. Felt tired all over towards the end of the session in the pool last night for the first time, rather than just the area around my hip running out of steam. Happy out with that, it felt like an actual training session rather than physio.

    Breathing on 3 seems the way to go now. Bilateral breathing I'd never heard off! Breathing off my left is still sloppy though and I'm not going much further than breathing on 4 but still improving my technique. My kicking is the weakpoint and even moreso now since the injury. Been surfing on and off for ten years now so the arms are alot stronger in the water. Swam 4x100m with decent breaks in between, then 4x50m where I'm really concentrating on correct technique, another 4x100m and finished with a 50m sprint. 1050m, definetely the longest pool session I've even done. Going to start more armless swimming on my front and back.

    This stood out for me from that thread:
    A common problem with novice swimmers is they hold their breath underwater. This has the effect of building up excess CO2 in your body, which will cause you to tense up. It also means air has to be released in one quick burst, often not giving enough time to take fresh air in when the head goes up. So this first lesson is to get swimmers used to exhaling constantly.

    Tried this last night, slowly breathing out as soon as my face goes back under the water. Before I was breathing out through the last stroke but doing this method I found myself loosing buoyancy in the water as I breath out. Not sure if my form is changing as I relax breathing out or maybe I have just been relying on the air in my lungs before.. more to work on :)


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