Triangle tyres - how are these legal?

Bobjims

Bought a car this week and the previous owner had four new triangle tyres on it. I knew they were cheap tyres and intended changing them soon. Well now after driving 100km in the car, I'm going to get rid of them immediately for a premium brand. It's scary how poor these are!

These tyres have virtually no grip in the wet. The rear wheels slip (RWD car) when moving off at nearly every set of traffic lights. Road noise is so bad that you could nearly be fooled into thinking there's a wheel bearing on the way out. You have to drive extra slow on corners and roundabouts.

How are these even legal?? I wouldn't even use one on a rope swing for the kids!!

J.pilkington

While its acknowledged they are a poor tyre should you not reserve judgement until you change your tyres and have a comparison. Could be fundamental issues with your car

Esel

<No digs at users that are not in the conversation, thx>

Bobjims

J.pilkington wrote: »

While its acknowledged they are a poor tyre should you not reserve judgement until you change your tyres and have a comparison. Could be fundamental issues with your car

I'll report back in a couple of hours. Getting new bridgestones this morning.

I'm certain the tyres are the problem. I've never experienced such bad wet grip on tyres before.

gctest50

J.pilkington wrote: »

While its acknowledged they are a poor tyre should you not reserve judgement until you change your tyres and have a comparison. Could be fundamental issues with your car

No, they're sh!te

may even be copies of cheap tires !

"Many of our molds went missing, we have no idea of who may have made these tires, nor what they put in them"

Bigus

Bobjims wrote: »

I'll report back in a couple of hours. Getting new bridgestones this morning.

I'm certain the tyres are the problem. I've never experienced such bad wet grip on tyres before.

Be careful on new tyres for a few miles until the grippy surface is exposed !

punisher5112

The only good thing these tyres are for are if they are used as crash barriers on a go cart track.

Tyres are the most important part of any vehicle.

Car99

I'm amazed at the amount of bargain basement tyres on cars these days , €30k+ cars with the cheapest tyre they can get on the wheels. If they skimp on tyres good chance they'll skimp on maintenance in general. Like people spending a fw thousand to get post 2008 to save €200 euro a year on tax. The mind boggles.

CiniO

J.pilkington wrote: »

While its acknowledged they are a poor tyre should you not reserve judgement until you change your tyres and have a comparison. Could be fundamental issues with your car

Sure, might be the car.
As well as a noise might be due to crappy Irish tarmacs.

Joe 90

I was reading somewhere recently that, here in the UK, when a car is returned at the end of a lease with tyres down to the limit the cheapest possible ditchfinders are sometimes fitted before the car is sold on. Hence someone buys a two or three year old highish spec car wit rubbish tyres.

fancy pigeon

punisher5112 wrote: »

The only good thing these tyres are for are if they are used as crash barriers on a go cart track.

Tyres are the most important part of any vehicle.

No. They're also a mighty tyre for diffin. Last so long on the shlab....

There's something satisfying watching a good new set of triangles being absolutely lit and burned clean off the rim

Sitec

Joe 90 wrote: »

I was reading somewhere recently that, here in the UK, when a car is returned at the end of a lease with tyres down to the limit the cheapest possible ditchfinders are sometimes fitted before the car is sold on. Hence someone buys a two or three year old highish spec car wit rubbish tyres.

That's been going on for years. It's the first sign of a bad dealer IMO. There's no need for it as they get good discounts on premium brand tyres. I would be livid spending money on a used car with pure crap tyres fitted.

punisher5112

<No digs at users that are not in the conversation, thx>

Tyres no 1 most important.

Ok sorry was only meant to be funny not in any way offensive.

Toyotafanboi

Sitec wrote: »

That's been going on for years. It's the first sign of a bad dealer IMO. There's no need for it as they get good discounts on premium brand tyres. I would be livid spending money on a used car with pure crap tyres fitted.

They would get the same margins on any tyre?

When margins are everything, why would they fit anything more expensive than they have to.

People will walk away from the purchase of a €20-30k car if they can get a similar deal elsewhere for €50 less. Do you think a dealer telling the punter that their car is more expensive but it has Bridgestones on it instead of Wanlis will win the deal back? 99 times out of 100 it wont, and that's what matters to the dealer.

Similarly, over the years in my old job, I have sold countless sets of tyres to people on a daily basis. Customers only have one question, "how much?".

Then one of three situations happens:

I price them on the cheapest ditchfinders I can source to replace their slicks and they accept and car gets some kind of wet grip back.

I price them on mid range rubber and they tell me Advance or whoever can fit ditchfinders for €15 a corner less and I lose the sale unless I can do ditchfinders cheaper, but the customer still gets ditchfinders one way or another.

I price them on mid range rubber and they just refuse. Take their car back and do another 5k on their slicks until they start losing air and then they buy ditchfinders... from the nearest outlet to where they got their puncture and not from me.

I'm not condoning ditchfinders but they are what 99.9% of what motoring consumers want, so we can't act shocked when the market is flooded by them.

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

People will walk away from the purchase of a €20-30k car if they can get a similar deal elsewhere for €50 less. Do you think a dealer telling the punter that their car is more expensive but it has Bridgestones on it instead of Wanlis will win the deal back? 99 times out of 100 it wont, and that's what matters to the dealer.

For me it would. A tyre from the Middlearth is also a statement of how the "service" is performed at particular establishment.

While the price is crucial at the €2.5k cars, at €25k not so much anymore and quality is prevails. Should... Me thinks... And hopes... Naaaaaive...

Furtzy2

I've had everything from top price Michelin to cheap as chips Silverstone even nankangs on a quite powerful BMW. Never had any scares on any of them however in an emergency braking situation I'd bet the Michelin etc would be the difference between whacking the car in front or not. Most people will buy whatever gets them through the nct for as little outlay as possible. The ditchfinders tag on here is thrown about quite a lot and does get exaggerated. If it was to be believed the ditches would be littered with cars considering their popularity

Bobjims

Right time to report back. Had new bridgestones fitted this morning.

Road noise has reduced dramatically! At one point on the triangles I thought maybe a wheel bearing was bad, now the car is completely silent in comparison when cruising at 110km/hr. I've done over 200km this afternoon on a drive to Kilkenny from dublin and then back up to Tullamore. The car handles fantastic and just feels a lot better overall with the control.

CiniO

Furtzy2 wrote: »

I've had everything from top price Michelin to cheap as chips Silverstone even nankangs on a quite powerful BMW. Never had any scares on any of them however in an emergency braking situation I'd bet the Michelin etc would be the difference between whacking the car in front or not. Most people will buy whatever gets them through the nct for as little outlay as possible. The ditchfinders tag on here is thrown about quite a lot and does get exaggerated. If it was to be believed the ditches would be littered with cars considering their popularity

I've never had Silverstones, but Nankangs are fairly good.
If you think most budget tyres behave like Nankangs, then you just don't know how bad they can be.
If I was to give point it would be something like that.
Traingle - 1/10
Wanli - 2/10
Infinity - 3/10
Alpha - 4/10
Debica - 5/10
Kormoran 6/10
Nankang 7/10
Hankook 8/10
Bridgestone 9/10
Michelin 10/10

You can't compare Nankangs which provide very reasonable grip for very reasonable price, with Triangles.

If I was to choose, Nankangs actually provide one the best price/quality ratio.

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

For me it would. A tyre from the Middlearth is also a statement of how the "service" is performed at particular establishment.

While the price is crucial at the €2.5k cars, at €25k not so much anymore and quality is prevails. Should... Me thinks... And hopes... Naaaaaive...

That's where you'd be wrong though. Low end tyres are so prevalent that you couldn't consider them a marker of how or where a cars services have been carried out; and that's not being difficult, that's the truth.

Most main dealers and large independents do menu pricing at this stage, so people shop around on the price of that, but they don't know they can haggle and if they did, they wouldn't know on what topics. They don't know they could ask for 10w40 instead of 5w30, save €25 and hope for the best, but if they would, they could.

A Yaris owner will just call a Toyota dealer, "how much is it to service my 131 1.4d Yaris", service advisor will say, "that's a 3rd service, €249 all in" or whatever and the car will head in, get genuine Toyota parts and a manufacturer spec oil... but when the advisor has to upsell two tyres to the customer, that's when you have to get competitive to get the sale. The car can be mechanically perfect with a full Toyota service history and 4 LingLongs fitted.

Quality doesn't ever cross a salesmans mind when prepping a car for sale. Perhaps if we are dealing with proper "money no object" brands like Bentley, Rolls, Maserati or what have you, but I can assure you quality doesn't prevail anywhere near €25k. You wouldn't get an ex fleet mid spec Passat for that, in fact you'd hardly get an ex demo Dacia Duster for that and the purveyors of vehicles like those are very much focused on the bottom line, every bit as much so as the customers are willing to walk away over a nifty fifty.

Furtzy2

My current Silverstones came with the car and they are at the bottom end of the budget range. The Nankangs were from some years ago whilst I've heard they've improved. Considering the huge increase in the use of budget tyres have accidents rates increased. Be interesting to know. Have you tried all of the brands you listed?

Nekarsulm

Never had Silverstones on a car, but had a set on a Daihatsu Fourtrak . Back in 2011 when we had ice and snow, and temps. to -15C, was making the trip from Cavan to Drogheda hosp. Four times a week. They had really impressive grip, even when driving on what ammounted to pack ice. Remember one night having to stop in Carnaross because the freezing fog was covering the screen faster than the heater could clear it, and was shocked how slippy the road was, you could hardly stand upright, yet the jeep had felt stable and in control. (35 to 40 mph range)

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's where you'd be wrong though. Low end tyres are so prevalent that you couldn't consider them a marker of how or where a cars services have been carried out; and that's not being difficult, that's the truth.

Most main dealers and large independents do menu pricing at this stage, so people shop around on the price of that, but they don't know they can haggle and if they did, they wouldn't know on what topics. They don't know they could ask for 10w40 instead of 5w30, save €25 and hope for the best, but if they would, they could.

A Yaris owner will just call a Toyota dealer, "how much is it to service my 131 1.4d Yaris", service advisor will say, "that's a 3rd service, €249 all in" or whatever and the car will head in, get genuine Toyota parts and a manufacturer spec oil... but when the advisor has to upsell two tyres to the customer, that's when you have to get competitive to get the sale. The car can be mechanically perfect with a full Toyota service history and 4 LingLongs fitted.

With my experience with three Toyota garages, I am very cautious about the "manufacturer spec oil" ... I'd rather come with mine and have the price of the oil deducted from the service that having to check what is currently in stock.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Quality doesn't ever cross a salesmans mind when prepping a car for sale.

And that's the issue. It does not cost a fortune, but is still dismissed.

Perhaps if we are dealing with proper "money no object" brands like Bentley, Rolls, Maserati or what have you, but I can assure you quality doesn't prevail anywhere near €25k. You wouldn't get an ex fleet mid spec Passat for that, in fact you'd hardly get an ex demo Dacia Duster for that and the purveyors of vehicles like those are very much focused on the bottom line, every bit as much so as the customers are willing to walk away over a nifty fifty.

Don't exaggerate. €25k will get you a 2012-2013 HL 2.0 DSG Passat.

Sh1tbag OToole

punisher5112 wrote: »

The only good thing these tyres are for are if they are used as crash barriers on a go cart track.

Tyres are the most important part of any vehicle.

Ah you are being fierce harsh. They are good for putting on top of a silage pit too

irish bloke

In my opinion people that are generally tyre brand conscious are the petrol heads/motor forum type folk. They love to discuss one spec against the next and rate their tyres against others. Nothing wrong with this, but most of the population couldn’t care less.

Unless you are planning to complete laps of the Mondello Park anytime soon, most of what you get in this range is absolutely fine for 99% of the population. A premium tyre 100% more expensive than a low end tyre is probably only 30% better. Quality of low end has come up quite a bit in recent years and any bit of a google search before you purchase will ensure you don’t buy complete lemons.

Don’t get suckered into the big brand advertising:)

grogi

irish bloke wrote: »

In my opinion people that are generally tyre brand conscious are the petrol heads/motor forum type folk. They love to discuss one spec against the next and rate their tyres against others. Nothing wrong with this, but most of the population couldn’t care less.

Unless you are planning to complete laps of the Mondello Park anytime soon, most of what you get in this range is absolutely fine for 99% of the population. A premium tyre 100% more expensive than a low end tyre is probably only 30% better. Quality of low end has come up quite a bit in recent years and any bit of a google search before you purchase will ensure you don’t buy complete lemons.

Don’t get suckered into the big brand advertising:)

You're right - you need to Google the tyres first. It is not what the average person does before purchase. Sure, there are better and worse premium tyres. But with a premium brand you'll not get a complete f****p. With budget tyres, you'll get a good tyre at best... After homework...

And the difference between premium and not-so-much premium is not as big as you're describing. I've checked praised EireTyres with the default tyre: 205/55R16:

Tyre-like products: ~€50
- http://www.eiretyres.com/product/Goodride/55/16/R-282765
- http://www.eiretyres.com/product/Sunny/55/16/R-155953

Permium tyres: ~€70
- http://www.eiretyres.com/product/Pirelli/55/16/R-170273
- http://www.eiretyres.com/product/Dunlop/55/16/R-231972

That's like 30% difference (if you include fitting of €10). I'll take a premium brand every time.

Mr_Muffin

Sometimes people just don't have the money for the better tires.

Special Circumstances

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Sometimes people just don't have the money for the better tires.

If you can't put mid range tyres on a budget to mid range car (15" or 16") once every few years, at a total difference of 80 euro for a set of established brand tyres versus fly-by-night random yokes? Then you are in a very bad situation, not even the moola for a pint or two every now and then. Sitting in the pub watching the premiership with only a pint of cordial in front of you, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If you're putting neverending nonstoppers on a 19" wheel... you're waaaay outta your league and the only people you're fooling are fools.

irish bloke

Special Circumstances wrote: »

If you can't put mid range tyres on a budget to mid range car (15" or 16") once every few years, at a total difference of 80 euro for a set of established brand tyres versus fly-by-night random yokes? Then you are in a very bad situation, not even the moola for a pint or two every now and then. Sitting in the pub watching the premiership with only a pint of cordial in front of you, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If you're putting neverending nonstoppers on a 19" wheel... you're waaaay outta your league and the only people you're fooling are fools.

This is the 1% of people I'm talking about!!;)

kirving

irish bloke wrote: »

In my opinion people that are generally tyre brand conscious are the petrol heads/motor forum type folk. They love to discuss one spec against the next and rate their tyres against others. Nothing wrong with this, but most of the population couldn’t care less.

Unless you are planning to complete laps of the Mondello Park anytime soon, most of what you get in this range is absolutely fine for 99% of the population. A premium tyre 100% more expensive than a low end tyre is probably only 30% better. Quality of low end has come up quite a bit in recent years and any bit of a google search before you purchase will ensure you don’t buy complete lemons.

Don’t get suckered into the big brand advertising:)

That 30% difference you mentioned, that’s the 30% that actually matters, the 30% reduction in stopping distance, the 30% faster reaction time when you swerve to avoid the truck that pulled out in front of you.

That’s the 30% difference that I care about, not the name on the sidewall.
We all understand that not everyone can afford premium tyres, I know I can’t afford €250 euro a tyre to get be the absolute best of the best, and of course there is the law of diminishing returns, but the attitude the attitude that you don’t even have to THINK about what connects you to the road unless you’re in Mondello is a very poor one.

The vast majority can afford to put an extra €50 towards their tyres, which would often bring a sizeable increase in performance, but are more worried about securing a bargain. I agree though, a quick Google can make all the difference when budgets are tight.

irish bloke

grogi wrote: »

You're right - you need to Google the tyres first. It is not what the average person does before purchase.

Well if you are looking for budget and not prepared to research then expect to get crap. This goes for everything though, not just tyres...

shietpilot

I suppose the cheap Chinese tyres pass the minimum requirements that are set out by the European standards and that's enough to be legal. It just shows why some of the speed limits are so low in places. You could easily do 120 km/h on some of the N-roads around Ireland for example.

Any extra grip you get from premium tyres is just that - an extra. Whether you want that extra it's up to you but I would rather have that 30% edge than not.

Good tyres are absolutely essential in this country with the roads being constantly wet. I would have no problem driving some of the ditchfinders in the likes of Spain where the road is mostly dry. I'm sure the hard rubber is decent enough on dry road.

irish bloke

Kevin Irving wrote: »

That 30% difference you mentioned, that’s the 30% that actually matters, the 30% reduction in stopping distance, the 30% faster reaction time when you swerve to avoid the truck that pulled out in front of you.

That’s the 30% difference that I care about, not the name on the sidewall.
We all understand that not everyone can afford premium tyres, I know I can’t afford €250 euro a tyre to get be the absolute best of the best, and of course there is the law of diminishing returns, but the attitude the attitude that you don’t even have to THINK about what connects you to the road unless you’re in Mondello is a very poor one.

The vast majority can afford to put an extra €50 towards their tyres, which would often bring a sizeable increase in performance, but are more worried about securing a bargain. I agree though, a quick Google can make all the difference when budgets are tight.

Again, your probably basing your numbers off a test that was completed with the best tyres on the market vs the worst. Test most probably subsidizes by one of the big name tyre companies.

30% was an arbitrary figure to make a point, based on no data like most of the stuff here..

Get past the basement barrel tyres and exclude the top end stuff and I bet you will find little difference between the rest

irish bloke

shietpilot wrote: »

I suppose the cheap Chinese tyres pass the minimum requirements that are set out by the European standards and that's enough to be legal.

If the pass the standards they pass the standards. If the standards are inadequate then that's a different thread:)

Most of these brands are cheap because if they were the same price as the premium brands, no one would buy them as they have never heard of them.
They need to get into the market somehow and advertising is too costly, therefore offering a more competitive price allows them in. This is no different to any industry...

sozbox

Furtzy2 wrote: »

My current Silverstones came with the car and they are at the bottom end of the budget range. The Nankangs were from some years ago whilst I've heard they've improved. Considering the huge increase in the use of budget tyres have accidents rates increased. Be interesting to know. Have you tried all of the brands you listed?

This is interesting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defective-tyres-largest-vehicle-factor-in-fatal-road-deaths-1.2597652

Voodoomelon

Special Circumstances wrote: »

neverending nonstoppers

Can we change the thread title to this? Phenomenal.

millington

sozbox wrote: »

This is interesting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defective-tyres-largest-vehicle-factor-in-fatal-road-deaths-1.2597652

To be fair, the tyres still may not have been the cause. If I fell asleep and hit a wall in a car with bald tyres, doesn't necessarily mean the tyres were at fault.

It also mentions nothing about the brands or quality of the tyres. Could have been bald/flat/defective Michelins.

shietpilot

irish bloke wrote: »

If the pass the standards they pass the standards. If the standards are inadequate then that's a different thread:)

Still doesn't change the fact that the cheap tyres are terrible when compared to the premium tyres.

irish bloke

shietpilot wrote: »

Still doesn't change the fact that the cheap tyres are terrible when compared to the premium tyres.

I still think you are missing my point.

What I am saying is exclude the bottom end and top end products, and while there is a vast difference in price between the rest, the quality will hardly make a difference to the average driver..

ongarite

RSA released some stats which backs up this thread.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0404/779346-road-safety-authority-tyres/

The majority of car owners don't know or care what tyres are on their car. They just want the cheapest option to get back in the road or pass NCT.
The RSA report points to the car owners who don't ever check their tyres once installed outside the annual/biennial NCT rolls around.

irish bloke

ongarite wrote: »

RSA released some stats which backs up this thread.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0404/779346-road-safety-authority-tyres/

The majority of car owners don't know or care what tyres are on their car. They just want the cheapest option to get back in the road or pass NCT.
The RSA report points to the car owners who don't ever check their tyres once installed outside the annual/biennial NCT rolls around.

Well why don't the RSA tighten up on standards so?

Cant be blaming the consumer if the standards of tyres legally sold are crap!!!

shietpilot

The largest age group driving with defective, worn or under-inflated tyres was those aged 17-24.

I wonder how they came up with this statistic? I cannot imagine the Gardai setting up a checkpoint to check tyre pressures

fancy pigeon

shietpilot wrote: »

I wonder how they came up with this statistic? I cannot imagine the Gardai setting up a checkpoint to check tyre pressures

"Well garda, ah the tyres grand it's only flat at the bottom"

bazz26

irish bloke wrote: »

Well why don't the RSA tighten up on standards so?

Cant be blaming the consumer if the standards of tyres legally sold are crap!!!

Have we really become a brain dead nanny state where we need someone else to tell us the tyres on our cars are ****e? What happened to having a bit of common sense and cope on that your tyres are all that keep you on the road so check their condition regularly and buy the best you can afford. Instead we have this typical lazy and ignorant attitude of sure they will be grand or the NCT will tell me. People need to be more responsible for their own vehicles.

Mr_Muffin

Special Circumstances wrote: »

If you can't put mid range tyres on a budget to mid range car (15" or 16") once every few years, at a total difference of 80 euro for a set of established brand tyres versus fly-by-night random yokes? Then you are in a very bad situation, not even the moola for a pint or two every now and then. Sitting in the pub watching the premiership with only a pint of cordial in front of you, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If you're putting neverending nonstoppers on a 19" wheel... you're waaaay outta your league and the only people you're fooling are fools.

You're right, gonna stop watching the premiership every week now and save money on the pint of cordial. Should have a brand new set of top of the range tires by 2034.

irish bloke

bazz26 wrote: »

Have we really become a brain dead nanny state where we need someone else to tell us the tyres on our cars are ****e? What happened to having a bit of common sense and cope on that your tyres are all that keep you on the road so check their condition regularly and buy the best you can afford. Instead we have this typical lazy and ignorant attitude of sure they will be grand or the NCT will tell me. People need to be more responsible for their own vehicles.

This is a different issue to what I am talking about. See bold text in post 40

I am talking about the standards of new tyres sold on the market as opposed to the upkeep of tyres by consumers

Max Headroom

Those Asian tyres are muck....but only for our weather..they're summer tyres ..Asian summers I.e.80 degrees ....had them on our megane...dangerous..bought part worn Michilens..no comparison

Nekarsulm

Max Headroom wrote: »

Those Asian tyres are muck....but only for our weather..they're summer tyres ..Asian summers I.e.80 degrees ....had them on our megane...dangerous..bought part worn Michilens..no comparison

Max, did you never hear of The Monsoon season in Asia?

s14driftking

Thing about it is most tyre depots now just stock budget brands. If you want premium they have to special order them in at 2 or 4 at a time meaning that they can't get a decent deal to pass onto the consumer resulting in people just throwing on what ever is available there and then.

power pants

They are perfectly good tyres.



Cheap tyres can and are every bit as good as the more expensive tyres. Its all branding and marketing

fancy pigeon

power pants wrote: »

They are perfectly good tyres.



Cheap tyres can and are every bit as good as the more expensive tyres. Its all branding and marketing

Popcorn's out. Want some?

crasy dash

Pass the popcorn this way