No NCT Summons?

ed94

Hi, I have a question i hope someone can answer. If you are stopped at a checkpoint and the NCT has expired on the car, can you be summonsed for that?
Friend was stopped and they have no NCT the car was insured and taxed and a date had been arranged (before they were stopped, which was shown to the garda at the checkpoint via the phone) for the NCT (just a few days after they were stopped), The Garda said they had toproduce their "insurance" within 10 days (even though there was obviously a cert in the window). Anyhow the car failed the NCT, they went to the garda station and showed the insurance and the fail sheet from the NCT and the retest date. The garda said that is grand but "you better ring the garda that stopped you to see if he is going to summons you". this is where the confusion lies. does this mean they can be summonsed and brought to court for the NCT? I am sorry if that is confusing.

Atlantic Dawn

Offenders can choose to accept a fine and points on the spot, or take the case to court, where they may be liable to a heavier penalty of five points. I'd say for now they have possibly avoided them but they should get the car NCT'd asap. Also if the car failed on say bald tyres and/or non working headlights they might throw them in to court to make an example for them being an idiot and needing the NCT to point out the bleeding obvious.

ed94

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Offenders can choose to accept a fine and points on the spot, or take the case to court, where they may be liable to a heavier penalty of five points. I'd say for now they have possibly avoided them but they should get the car NCT'd asap. Also if the car failed on say bald tyres and/or non working headlights they might throw them in to court to make an example for them being an idiot and needing the NCT to point out the bleeding obvious.

The garda that took the details of the insurance did not look at the failure points on the nct receipt just the insurance certificate and the driving licence.

But judging by your reply they are already an offender because they drove the vehicle without an NCT?

shaywest

if you do get summoned .get an nct cert. and bring it to court with you,show it to the judge and the summons will be struck out
dont worry about it its easily sorted

kjbsrah1

ed94 wrote: »

Hi, I have a question i hope someone can answer. If you are stopped at a checkpoint and the NCT has expired on the car, can you be summonsed for that?
Friend was stopped and they have no NCT the car was insured and taxed and a date had been arranged (before they were stopped, which was shown to the garda at the checkpoint via the phone) for the NCT (just a few days after they were stopped), The Garda said they had toproduce their "insurance" within 10 days (even though there was obviously a cert in the window). Anyhow the car failed the NCT, they went to the garda station and showed the insurance and the fail sheet from the NCT and the retest date. The garda said that is grand but "you better ring the garda that stopped you to see if he is going to summons you". this is where the confusion lies. does this mean they can be summonsed and brought to court for the NCT? I am sorry if that is confusing.

I'd presume it was the insurance disc and not the cert that was in the window? Just clarifying as your tone appears to imply that the Garda was stupid.

ted1

Is your insurance void if you don't have a NCT?

kjbsrah1

ted1 wrote: »

Is your insurance void if you don't have a NCT?

Not sure. But if you are in an accident and are looking for the insurance company to pay out .... then its probable that its one of the many things they will look at to see if they can get out of having to pay out!! Even the smallest thing can make a difference. But i would be interested in knowing the answer to this too if anyone knows?

Esel

ted1 wrote: »

Is your insurance void if you don't have a NCT?

Depends on your policy.

millington

Your friend will either get a fine & 3 points in the post, or will receive nothing at all. Having the car booked in makes no difference, especially since it failed anyway. If anything, that reinforces the point

serarra

Some years ago, driving without a valid NCT, but having one booked, worked.
Nowadays it does not. The moment the NCT is expired, you can get a ticket. That is why you can have the NCT done up to 3 months in advance without affecting the date (my car was due NCT next month, I passed it last month, so I would had time to fix any problems before it was expired, and now my NCT disk is valid for 2 years and 2 months)

EndaHonesty

shaywest wrote: »

if you do get summoned .get an nct cert. and bring it to court with you,show it to the judge and the summons will be struck out
dont worry about it its easily sorted

Exactly. Most judges will strike out on the presentation of valid cert.
This is also the reason the Garda did not make a big issue of the NCT being out.

If you have valid tax and insurance but the nct is out you will not be summonsed for the nct being out. It's a waste of Garda and court time.

You were asked to produce the insurance cert at the station because many people get the disk and then cancel the insurance.

wil

serarra wrote: »

Some years ago, driving without a valid NCT, but having one booked, worked.
Nowadays it does not. The moment the NCT is expired, you can get a ticket. That is why you can have the NCT done up to 3 months in advance without affecting the date (my car was due NCT next month, I passed it last month, so I would had time to fix any problems before it was expired, and now my NCT disk is valid for 2 years and 2 months)

Is it ok to drive to and from an NCT centre for testing without a valid cert?

Last year while I was in tax office renewing my own tax I made brief enquiries for a relative who has a car declared off road while being repaired. Nct and tax were going to be out before complete. The girl behind the counter seemed to think it was allowed to drive to and from the test centre. I was a bit dubious about her reply as I haven't seen that in writing anywhere.

You used to have to show NCT to get tax but don't think it's required now.
Some insurance companies do ask about NCT before insuring.

millington

serarra wrote: »

Some years ago, driving without a valid NCT, but having one booked, worked.
Nowadays it does not. The moment the NCT is expired, you can get a ticket. That is why you can have the NCT done up to 3 months in advance without affecting the date (my car was due NCT next month, I passed it last month, so I would had time to fix any problems before it was expired, and now my NCT disk is valid for 2 years and 2 months)

No it didn't. It is and always has been up to Garda discretion.

Get the wrong Gard & the wrong judge and you will end up with a fine and 5 points even if it's booked in. Don't just assume because most people get away with it that it's OK.

Esel

millington wrote: »

No it didn't. It is and always has been up to Garda discretion.

Get the wrong Gard & the wrong judge and you will end up with a fine and 5 points even if it's booked in. Don't just assume because most people get away with it that it's OK.

It's 3 points and no judge now. Not sure if that goes up if you elect to go before a judge.

Aka Ishur

A car with an NCT expired (taxed and insured) can only be driven legally to the test and back.

GM228

Aka Ishur wrote: »

A car with an NCT expired (taxed and insured) can only be driven legally to the test and back.

That is incorrect, you can't legally drive a car to the NCT with no valid NCT, that provision was repealed in 2003, it's a very common misunderstanding which stems from when you could do it prior to 2003.

Only a car which up to now has been exclusively used on an off shore island can legally drive to a test without a valid NCT!

wil

GM228 wrote: »

That is incorrect, you can't legally drive a car to the NCT with no valid NCT, that provision was repealed in 2003, it's a very common misunderstanding which stems from when you could do it prior to 2003.

Only a car which up to now has been exclusively used on an off shore island can legally drive to a test without a valid NCT!

Just wondering how do you get an un-NCTed car to test?

In the UK this is allowed.
You can drive to and from garage for repair and to and from booked test so long as car meets minimum safety standards. Same exemption applies to tax for driving to and from test.

Do irish laws address something different?

millington

Esel wrote: »

It's 3 points and no judge now. Not sure if that goes up if you elect to go before a judge.

It's 5 points if you don't pay the FCPN. My point is, a booking is not always legally OK nor has it ever been.

Del2005

wil wrote: »

Just wondering how do you get an un-NCTed car to test?

In the UK this is allowed.
You can drive to and from garage for repair and to and from booked test so long as car meets minimum safety standards. Same exemption applies to tax for driving to and from test.

Do irish laws address something different?

Trailer, make sure that you're legal, or recovery wagon. You can drive untaxed to and from the test centre once the vehicle is declared off the road, but you can't drive without a valid NCT to the test centre.

MadDog76

ed94 wrote: »

Hi, I have a question i hope someone can answer. If you are stopped at a checkpoint and the NCT has expired on the car, can you be summonsed for that?
Friend was stopped and they have no NCT the car was insured and taxed and a date had been arranged (before they were stopped, which was shown to the garda at the checkpoint via the phone) for the NCT (just a few days after they were stopped), The Garda said they had toproduce their "insurance" within 10 days (even though there was obviously a cert in the window). Anyhow the car failed the NCT, they went to the garda station and showed the insurance and the fail sheet from the NCT and the retest date. The garda said that is grand but "you better ring the garda that stopped you to see if he is going to summons you". this is where the confusion lies. does this mean they can be summonsed and brought to court for the NCT? I am sorry if that is confusing.

Is it possible that your friend will be summonsed to Court for driving without valid NCT?
Yes, of course it is.

Is it probable, in this particular case?
No.

MadDog76

ted1 wrote: »

Is your insurance void if you don't have a NCT?

No.

ed94

kjbsrah1 wrote: »

I'd presume it was the insurance disc and not the cert that was in the window? Just clarifying as your tone appears to imply that the Garda was stupid.

What is my tone? and how can one decide what someone's tone is from a typed response?
I was not implying anything about the garda. I don't even know who he is, nor do I care but the chances of him being a stupid thick redneck are, in my opinion, fairly high.
Having said that, its not my car its not my problem, I don't really care if they get a summons or penalty points or anything, I was just asking on their behalf, next time they can ask themselves because my tone just does not sit right with some people.
I am sure the Garda was just doing his job and fair play to him.

wil

Del2005 wrote: »

Trailer, make sure that you're legal, or recovery wagon. You can drive untaxed to and from the test centre once the vehicle is declared off the road, but you can't drive without a valid NCT to the test centre.

So you can drive untaxed on the road to the NCT after declaring it will not be used in a public road?

I guess that makes lots more sense.:rolleyes:
Who comes up with these rules?

Del2005

wil wrote: »

So you can drive untaxed on the road to the NCT after declaring it will not be used in a public road?

I guess that makes lots more sense.:rolleyes:
Who comes up with these rules?

You can also drive back from the NCT after the car has failed!

Our well paid civil servants.

carzony

just get the car nct'd and you'll have nothing to worry about if a summons arrives.

GM228

wil wrote: »

So you can drive untaxed on the road to the NCT after declaring it will not be used in a public road?

I guess that makes lots more sense.:rolleyes:
Who comes up with these rules?

You know it actually makes sense, say a car is declared off the road for 12 months but due an NCT in 6, if there was no opportunity to NCT beforehand then the car would be returning to the road without a valud NCT and since we can't actually drive to the NCT without a valid NCT it gives the opportunity to remedy that beforehand.

gavman1

There isn't an insurance company in this land that will pay out for a car with no test.whats more,if your car has changed considerably since the last test weather it be in date or not they will try to get out of paying out.also there is no gray area around this topic.if you don't have a current nct you are not insured,hence the reason why your meant to book your car in early so the tests overlap.

punisher5112

gavman1 wrote: »

There isn't an insurance company in this land that will pay out for a car with no test.whats more,if your car has changed considerably since the last test weather it be in date or not they will try to get out of paying out.also there is no gray area around this topic.if you don't have a current nct you are not insured,hence the reason why your meant to book your car in early so the tests overlap.

You will be given a certain percentage.

Say car worth €2k they may only give €1k if no nct approx figures.

Nct is good but we don't need a police force of robots as if car is in perfect order and on way to test there should be no problems whatsoever as if car is involved in a collision they test all parts of it anyway and that will be put on driver if its something serious and that's the same even if nct is on the car.

gavman1

I'll say again,if you are involved in an accident with a third party and your nct is out,your insurance company will not pay out in the event that the accident is your fault.how many people actually read there policies.if it doesn't say this on your policy then you should ask your insurance company directly and they will tell you exactly that.

GM228

gavman1 wrote: »

I'll say again,if you are involved in an accident with a third party and your nct is out,your insurance company will not pay out in the event that the accident is your fault.how many people actually read there policies.if it doesn't say this on your policy then you should ask your insurance company directly and they will tell you exactly that.

That is incorrect, if they are required under law to pay out then they will pay out and may look to recover costs from the insured, and they are required under EU law to cover third party.

gavman1

GM228 wrote: »

That is incorrect, if they are required under law to pay out then they will pay out and may look to recover costs from the insured, and they are required under EU law to cover third party.

How is that better for the insured?apologies to the op for going a little of topic here but alot of people prefer to live in ignorance on things like this until something bad happens.look,if ye go to insure a car without a test ye won't get insurance and once ye have test the job of keeping it tested is yours alone.i know on my policy schedule it clearly states that without a certificate of roadworthiness for the insured vehicle the policy cover would be compromised to the detriment of the insured driver/drivers.

MadDog76

gavman1 wrote: »

How is that better for the insured?apologies to the op for going a little of topic here but alot of people prefer to live in ignorance on things like this until something bad happens.look,if ye go to insure a car without a test ye won't get insurance and once ye have test the job of keeping it tested is yours alone.i know on my policy schedule it clearly states that without a certificate of roadworthiness for the insured vehicle the policy cover would be compromised to the detriment of the insured driver/drivers.

That's not strictly true .............. some Insurance Companies will allow you a certain number of days to obtain an NCT ......... some Insurance Companies do not require you to have an NCT Cert and will just insist that your vehicle is road worthy .......... other Insurance Companies will reduce the value of your vehicle if your car has not passed and some Insurance Companies will not cover you at all if you don't have an NCT Cert in the event of a Claim if you are involved in an accident that is found to be caused by a mechanical failure that would have been picked up on during an NCT .......... it really depends on each individual's Insurance Company/Policy and, as such, it's worth clarifying with your own Insurer .......... or just keep your NCT up to date to be on the safe side Insurance-wise.

carzony

MadDog76 wrote: »

That's not strictly true .............. some Insurance Companies will allow you a certain number of days to obtain an NCT ......... some Insurance Companies do not require you to have an NCT Cert and will just insist that your vehicle is road worthy .......... other Insurance Companies will reduce the value of your vehicle if your car has not passed and some Insurance Companies will not cover you at all if you don't have an NCT Cert in the event of a Claim if you are involved in an accident that is found to be caused by a mechanical failure that would have been picked up on during an NCT .......... it really depends on each individual's Insurance Company/Policy and, as such, it's worth clarifying with your own Insurer .......... or just keep your NCT up to date to be on the safe side Insurance-wise.

A friend of mine bought a new car with no nct. She called the insurance the other day and voluntarily told them the car had no nct:rolleyes: so they gave her 3 months to get it sorted.

I always thought they just wouldnt insure you. The nct backlog must be so bad that they had to make allowances people.

savagethegoat

gavman1 wrote: »

How is that better for the insured?apologies to the op for going a little of topic here but alot of people prefer to live in ignorance on things like this until something bad happens.look,if ye go to insure a car without a test ye won't get insurance and once ye have test the job of keeping it tested is yours alone.i know on my policy schedule it clearly states that without a certificate of roadworthiness for the insured vehicle the policy cover would be compromised to the detriment of the insured driver/drivers.

of relevance here is that you do have the minimum required insurance cover and won't get prosecuted for no insurance.

Esel

gavman1 wrote: »

There isn't an insurance company in this land that will pay out for a car with no test.whats more,if your car has changed considerably since the last test weather it be in date or not they will try to get out of paying out.also there is no gray area around this topic.if you don't have a current nct you are not insured,hence the reason why your meant to book your car in early so the tests overlap.

Sorry, I just don't believe you.

Can you cite sources? Are you a motor insurance professional?

savagethegoat

Esel wrote: »

Sorry, I just don't believe you.

Can you cite sources? Are you a motor insurance professional?

there's a very good chance they won't pay out for your own car, but you are insured, at a minimum level.

gavman1

Esel wrote: »

Sorry, I just don't believe you.

Can you cite sources? Are you a motor insurance professional?

Weather ye believe me or not I irrelevant,I'm simply quoting the grounds for my insurance.pick up the phone and get all the answer ye need and then decide if I'm telling porkies.

GM228

gavman1 wrote: »

How is that better for the insureD?

I never said it was better for the insured.

You should have an NCT when taking out a new policy or advise them that you don't, some will allow a grace period to obtain the NCT.

Some insurance companies will pay out irrespective of having an NCT or not, it depends on the company and the circumstances. Either way all insurers will pay out any third party claims irrespective of the NCT as they are required to under law.

Some will pay out if the accident was caused by a mechanical failure which would not have been caused by something which could have been spotted by an NCT test for example. Some will offer cover on a new car until you get the NCT etc.

https://www.123.ie/customer-care/before-you-insure/getting-a-quote/can-i-get-a-quote-if-my-car-has-no-nct

If you are taking out a new policy with us, the car you are looking to insure must hold a valid NCT certificate.

If you are currently a customer with us, and have recently bought a car that does not have a valid NCT, please contact us to see if we can offer you cover until you get the NCT.

Note: If you are involved in an accident that is found to be caused by a mechanical failure that would have been picked up on during an NCT, then this may affect the pay out of any claim made.

All insurers will tell you that if they have to pay out under law (i.e third party) a claim that they wouldn't otherwise have paid out then they may or will recover the payout from you dependent on the insurer.

The clause is usually something like this one from Liberty:-

If, under the law of any country, we have to make a payment which we would otherwise not have made under this policy, we may recover any payment from you or from the person who the claim was made against.

At the end of the day they may not pay for your own car or claims, but they will pay out any third party claims and you are legally insured.

MadDog76

gavman1 wrote: »

Weather ye believe me or not I irrelevant,I'm simply quoting the grounds for my insurance.pick up the phone and get all the answer ye need and then decide if I'm telling porkies.

Your Insurance Company has that particular policy regarding NCT but you claimed all Insurance Companies operate the same policy, which is factually incorrect.

My own Insurance Policy states that "whilst the lack of an NCT Certificate will not render your Policy invalid, we do recommend you keep your NCT up-to-date as any Claim may be reduced by an agreed percentage if you are involved in an accident that is found to be caused by a mechanical failure that would have been picked up on during an NCT."

grogi

MadDog76 wrote: »

Your Insurance Company has that particular policy regarding NCT but you claimed all Insurance Companies operate the same policy, which is factually incorrect.

My own Insurance Policy states that "whilst the lack of an NCT Certificate will not render your Policy invalid, we do recommend you keep your NCT up-to-date as any Claim may be reduced by an agreed percentage if you are involved in an accident that is found to be caused by a mechanical failure that would have been picked up on during an NCT."

Which company is it - because it makes perfect sense?

Esel

gavman1 wrote: »

Weather ye believe me or not I irrelevant,I'm simply quoting the grounds for my insurance.pick up the phone and get all the answer ye need and then decide if I'm telling porkies.

So you are basically bullshitting then.

Thanks for clarifying that.

gavman1

Esel wrote: »

So you are basically bullshitting then.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Watch out,here comes the red line to the rescue.everything will be fine.omg!

khamilto

GM228 wrote: »

That is incorrect, you can't legally drive a car to the NCT with no valid NCT, that provision was repealed in 2003, it's a very common misunderstanding which stems from when you could do it prior to 2003.

Only a car which up to now has been exclusively used on an off shore island can legally drive to a test without a valid NCT!

Any idea what legislation governs this?

I know that you can legally drive an 'off the road' car to the NCT centre, which would seem somewhat nonsensical if you cannot legally drive it to the centre without valid NCT.

grogi

khamilto wrote: »

Any idea what legislation governs this?

I know that you can legally drive an 'off the road' car to the NCT centre, which would seem somewhat nonsensical if you cannot legally drive it to the centre without valid NCT.

You're clearly mistaken. An 'off the road' vehicle can be driven to the NCT without MotorTax. There is no exemption for lack of NCT, except on the day the certificate had been refused.

S.I. No. 322/2014 - Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014

GM228

khamilto wrote: »

Any idea what legislation governs this?

I know that you can legally drive an 'off the road' car to the NCT centre, which would seem somewhat nonsensical if you cannot legally drive it to the centre without valid NCT.

As grogi states it the Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014.

The whole point about being able to drive to an NCT during an off the road declaration is to allow you the opportunity to get an NCT without it lapsing! The off the road declaration only allows you drive with no road tax, not no valid NCT.

khamilto

grogi wrote: »

You're clearly mistaken. An 'off the road' vehicle can be driven to the NCT without MotorTax. There is no exemption for lack of NCT, except on the day the certificate had been refused.

S.I. No. 322/2014 - Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014

Mistaken about what? I never claimed anything. I asked for the legislation because I didn't know.