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Cyclists not welcome at Powerscourt Waterfall ?

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  • 05-04-2016 3:14pm
    #1
    jb2007
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    The usual route from Djouce woods through to Powerscourt on MTB is blocked as of the last week maybe ... anyone know whats up with this ?
    They have resurfaced the paths in powerscourt and used a digger to bank up the usual crossing point ... Obviously you can still get in but its messier ..


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    #2
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,829 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Do you mean Powerscourt Estate or the Waterfall?


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    #3
    jb2007
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭jb2007


    sorry, meant to say, the waterfall .


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    #4
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,829 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Technically speaking you have to enter through the main gates and it's €6 for an adult....


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    #5
    jb2007
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭jb2007


    it's a pity as not many will pay to cycle in for a cuppa and a look at the falls whereas it was a nice stop off point and there were always a few cyclist spending a few bob on teas and snacks


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    #6
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Your post title is misleading.

    I'm sure cyclists are welcome but as has been said, there is an admission charge to the waterfall and the other way was unauthorized.

    They also have a coffee shop at the house and entrance is free to it


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    #7
    jb2007
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭jb2007


    I don't think its misleading at all.
    Not sure if I was mad enough to pay admission I would feel very welcome tbh.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ariana Hundreds Gentlewoman wrote: »
    Your post title is misleading.
    there is an admission charge to the waterfall and the other way was unauthorized.

    According to who? Is there not a right of way?


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    #9
    CosmicSmash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭CosmicSmash


    jb2007 wrote: »
    I don't think its misleading at all.
    Not sure if I was mad enough to pay admission I would feel very welcome tbh.

    So your usual way of avoiding paying an admission fee is blocked off and you're complaining about it.


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    #10
    bazermc
    Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭bazermc


    Free loaders Ted


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    #11
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    jb2007 wrote: »
    The usual route from Djouce woods through to Powerscourt on MTB is blocked as of the last week maybe ... anyone know whats up with this ?
    They have resurfaced the paths in powerscourt and used a digger to bank up the usual crossing point ... Obviously you can still get in but its messier ..

    There are a number of ways in to avoid paying. Check Strava segment explore feature to find them! I've been in there numerous times on my mountain bike and never had any hassle. Was even in there very early one morning and wanted to leave by the gate but it was closed. The woman who lives in the house there was walking by and opened the gate for me! Didn't seem to be a problem.


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    #12
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    [quote="ronoc;99294237"Is there not a right of way?[/quote]
    .
    You tell me.!!

    Its private property. They charge admission in which apart from anything else means your insured on the premises but you feel its OK to trespass.


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    #13
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Ariana Hundreds Gentlewoman wrote: »
    .
    You tell me.!!

    Its private property. They charge admission in which apart from anything else means your insured on the premises but you feel its OK to trespass.

    Have you ever walked in Wicklow? If you have it is almost certain you have trespassed on someones land. The only difference being they weren't greedy enough to make you pay for it.


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    #14
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,418 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    black and amber wrote: »
    Have you ever walked in Wicklow? If you have it is almost certain you have trespassed on someones land. The only difference being they weren't greedy enough to make you pay for it.
    If you want to use something that belongs to me (and that I paid for) it's only reasonable that I can charge you for that privilege


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    #15
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Ariana Hundreds Gentlewoman wrote: »
    ....Its private property. They charge admission in which apart from anything else means your insured on the premises but you feel its OK to trespass.
    black and amber wrote: »
    Have you ever walked in Wicklow? If you have it is almost certain you have trespassed on someones land. The only difference being they weren't greedy enough to make you pay for it.
    Many private properties have a right of way. I don't know about Powerscourt but just because something is in private ownership, it doesn't mean the general public can't access it. My workplace is a private property however we can't stop people from accessing the grounds (on foot) as there was a right of way through it long before it was built (circa. 1890).


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    #16
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    This http://www.swedishepa.se/Enjoying-nature/The-Right-of-Public-Access/ is how it is in Sweden but of course the Irish obsession with owning land and making money wouldn't allow it to happen here. If everyone charged for accessing their land basically the whole of Wicklow would be shut down.


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    #17
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Many private properties have a right of way. I don't know about Powerscourt but just because something is in private ownership, it doesn't mean the general public can't access it. My workplace is a private property however we can't stop people from accessing the grounds (on foot) as there was a right of way through it long before it was built (circa. 1890).

    Powerscourt is a strange one in that you can access the whole area including waterfall and never even realise that everyone else in there had to pay in! You really only have to pay if you enter by the main gate the rest is open mountain. The op seems to think that might be changing though.


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    #18
    Johnny Jukebox
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭Johnny Jukebox


    jb2007 wrote: »
    The usual route from Djouce woods through to Powerscourt on MTB is blocked as of the last week maybe ... anyone know whats up with this ?
    They have resurfaced the paths in powerscourt and used a digger to bank up the usual crossing point ... Obviously you can still get in but its messier ..

    And technically the usual route from Djouce is not permitted according to Coillte by-law...

    Haven't ridden it yet myself but is the bank feature a welcome addition to the descent ?


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    #19
    jb2007
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭jb2007


    Oh its not a feature ... until it gets plenty traffic it's an awkward lift I'm afraid.

    As a cyclist I think it's ridiculous to be asked to pay in so yes I will be finding another way... its a nice stop off point not a destination.

    If I was visiting in a car as a tourist with guests it would be different... I would be robbed at the gate like some of the other suckers in this thread.

    Johnny Jukebox wrote: »
    And technically the usual route from Djouce is not permitted according to Coillte by-law...

    Haven't ridden it yet myself but is the bank feature a welcome addition to the descent ?


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    #20
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    It's private property, right of way is because they are nice people, not in anyway a right.


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    #21
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    black and amber wrote: »
    Have you ever walked in Wicklow? If you have it is almost certain you have trespassed on someones land. The only difference being they weren't greedy enough to make you pay for it.

    The facilities that your wanting to use cost money to provide as does the staff who maintain and manage the waterfall area.

    As for powers court, I probably know it better than you think you do.:)


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    #22
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Many private properties have a right of way. I don't know about Powerscourt but just because something is in private ownership, it doesn't mean the general public can't access it. My workplace is a private property however we can't stop people from accessing the grounds (on foot) as there was a right of way through it long before it was built (circa. 1890).

    There is also a distinction between public and private rights of way, as well as rules relating to uninvited entry onto private lands. From Citizen's information
    Right of way
    There is a distinction in Irish law between public and private rights of way. A public right of way is a person's right of passage along a road or path, even if the road or path is not in public ownership. A private right of way is the right to enter onto private lands, but only for the purposes of gaining access to or exiting from another piece of land.

    The rights of walkers and ramblers are specified in the Occupiers' Liability Act 1995, which includes "recreational user" as a category of users of privately-owned lands. Under the Act, a recreational user is a person present on the premises or land of a private citizen, without charge (other than a reasonable charge for parking facilities) for the purposes of engaging in a recreational activity. Under these circumstances, the owner of the land is obliged only to not intentionally injure or harm the recreational user or act with reckless disregard for the recreational user's welfare. This is an important distinction because it removes previous insurance liability concerns, which still apply to an invited visitor onto private land.

    Don't know where off road cyclists sit in all this, as many Coilte entrances for example include signs prohibiting mountain bikes. As for Powerscourt, it seems reasonable to use an established right of way to pass through it, but not to enter and remain as a mechanism to avoid the entrance fee.


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    #23
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Skatedude wrote: »
    It's private property, right of way is because they are nice people, not in anyway a right.

    Using an established right of way to pass through private land is a legal right. Facilitating public access to private land is where being nice comes in, as is the case with much of the land around Lough's Dan and Tay, where the occupiers liability act makes it easier to achieve this.


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    #24
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,943 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    I've refused the guy at the gate and cycled down to the waterfall a couple of times without paying, I don't agree with them being allowed to fleece people who want to see the biggest waterfall in the country just because some ancestor paid tuppence for it hundreds of years ago, told him to call the guards if he had a problem.


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    #25
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Thargor wrote: »
    I've refused the guy at the gate and cycled down to the waterfall a couple of times without paying, I don't agree with them being allowed to fleece people who want to see the biggest waterfall in the country just because some ancestor paid tuppence for it hundreds of years ago, told him to call the guards if he had a problem.

    Fleece is right. The last time I paid in it was €5. PER PERSON! Not just for the car. It cost us €20 that day. Never again.


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    #26
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    black and amber wrote: »
    This http://www.swedishepa.se/Enjoying-nature/The-Right-of-Public-Access/ is how it is in Sweden but of course the Irish obsession with owning land and making money wouldn't allow it to happen here. If everyone charged for accessing their land basically the whole of Wicklow would be shut down.

    Ireland is a long way behind the rest of Europe with respect to recreational land use. We could really learn a lesson from the likes of France in terms of having an extensive network of well marked trails for all kinds of use. Changing Coillte ownership from Agriculture and Finance departments to include Tourism could help here.


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    #27
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    smacl wrote: »
    Ireland is a long way behind the rest of Europe with respect to recreational land use. We could really learn a lesson from the likes of France in terms of having an extensive network of well marked trails for all kinds of use. Changing Coillte ownership from Agriculture and Finance departments to include Tourism could help here.


    Another reason they probably charge is to stop people coming in and ruining it, which is a common thing people in this country do when something is free.

    Wouldn't see the French do that.


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    #28
    Johnny Jukebox
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭Johnny Jukebox


    What really irritates me about the Powerscourt is the sight of tourists getting the 44 to Enniskerry and then walking on some of the most dangerous roads in north Wicklow to the waterfall. There is no footpath on most of the route and its really busy especially in the summer and its only a matter of time before someone gets a smack of a car.

    This could of course be completely avoided as there is a beautiful tranquil and highly enjoyable walking and cycling route through the upper and lower estate which comes out at the waterfall - but of course, its private.


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    #29
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    smacl wrote: »
    Ireland is a long way behind the rest of Europe with respect to recreational land use. We could really learn a lesson from the likes of France in terms of having an extensive network of well marked trails for all kinds of use. Changing Coillte ownership from Agriculture and Finance departments to include Tourism could help here.

    Hard to know what the answer is tbh, you could change a lot of things with Coilte, National Parks, law on duty of care on "open" land whether private or public but a key problem which you can't get around is a small percentage of such land users are cnuts. The type of people who ruin it for everyone else. For example the type of people who dump on the mountainside, leave dogs off leads with sheep close by, gates open, ignorant parking etc. I regularly ( I mean 5/6 per year) have to hunt guys at night who hunt deer with dogs or who lamp deer(they hope) while firing rifles .243 and above i.e. high powered rifles. I regularly come across deer gutted in land on which there is livestock; gutting is the process of removing the internal organs, lungs and intestines.

    In France for example a lot of home heating in rural areas is by firewood, which is obtained from local public and privately owned woods. The trees are typically dropped by owners/professionals and home owners then cut up/split and haul out their wood to season( or in some case season it on site and remove later). I've seen this in Black Forest to. What a lovely family activity
    but could you imagine doing it here? From claims to stolen wood a for starters

    I own forestry and such a system would really suit with regard to thinning but I'd want to be insane to do it with the way legal system works here.

    The way Coilte manage what are effect public lands is a disgrace in terms of access.


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    #30
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

    This could of course be completely avoided as there is a beautiful tranquil and highly enjoyable walking and cycling route through the upper and lower estate which comes out at the waterfall - but of course, its private.

    Or Wicklow Co Co could build a path or DB or the NTA could run buses to the waterfall/ crone carpark.


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    #31
    nak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    black and amber wrote: »
    This http://www.swedishepa.se/Enjoying-nature/The-Right-of-Public-Access/ is how it is in Sweden but of course the Irish obsession with owning land and making money wouldn't allow it to happen here. If everyone charged for accessing their land basically the whole of Wicklow would be shut down.

    Right to Roam in Scotland has been one of the reasons why mountain biking has been so successful there. Was quite surprised at the difference when I moved here.


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