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Landlord increasing deposit after 18 months

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  • 05-04-2016 9:23pm
    #1
    raychuckb
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi,

    I am living in a flat for 18 months with the gf.

    The landlord called me recently and told me the rent was going up by €200 per month and he wanted an additional €200 on top of the original deposit.

    That would bring the deposit from 800 to 1000.

    Is this allowed?

    Ray


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    #2
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Is the new rent €1000 per month?


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    #3
    raychuckb
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭raychuckb


    Hi,

    Yes


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    #4
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    raychuckb wrote: »
    Hi,

    Yes

    Then they are increasing the deposit to match a months rent.

    There's nothing to say that he can't do that tbh.

    There've been a few threads on this subject before.


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    #5
    raychuckb
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭raychuckb


    Hi,

    Can I go to the PRTB on this or is it just 'one of those things'?

    thanks


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    #6
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Do you have a current lease? If the lease states if the rent goes up the deposit goes up then up she goes. If not then he can't force you. However, it's less than 20 a month so it may not be worth arguing over.

    Is the 200 euro increase reasonable for the area?


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    #7
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Unless tyhe lease provides for it, which is most unlikely then the landlord cannot seek a higher security deposit. It is a condition of contract law that a new clause cannot be inserted in without agreement, after the contract is made.


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    #8
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    raychuckb wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am living in a flat for 18 months with the gf.

    The landlord called me recently and told me the rent was going up by €200 per month and he wanted an additional €200 on top of the original deposit.

    That would bring the deposit from 800 to 1000.

    Is this allowed?

    Ray

    Pretty sure the rent can't increase till two years under the new rules.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html


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    #9
    accensi0n
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Tigger wrote: »
    Pretty sure the rent can't increase till two years under the new rules.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

    Shouldn't be allowed to increase for 6 more months right?


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    #10
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    accensi0n wrote: »
    Shouldn't be allowed to increase for 6 more months right?
    that's what it says or more correctly that they can give 90 days notice of a rent increase in three months time


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    #11
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,375 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Realistically the deposit could be anything they require, though most just look for a months rent to cover the deposit. If I was renting a place for 18 months and gave the LL no hassle (rents paid on time, no complaints etc), i'd somewhat question why the deposit is going up. The value of the properties contents haven't gone up, and you've proven to be a reliable/hassle free tenant.

    On a similar note, some rentals outside towns and cities sell themselves short with deposits, looking for too little to cover potential damages etc that may be caused by bad tenants. <---- Just an observation, nothing to do with the OP.


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    #12
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Realistically the deposit could be anything they require, though most just look for a months rent to cover the deposit.
    But there must be something in the law that restricts deposits changes once the original deposit has been paid. Otherwise, every LL who wants to evict a tenant but can't, because of the restricted number of reasons for lawful evictions, would just raise the deposit to something like 12 months rent or even higher, which the tenant can't pay and which would allow the LL to evict him.


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    #13
    Sarn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Sarn


    Tigger wrote: »
    Pretty sure the rent can't increase till two years under the new rules.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

    If the rent was reviewed in 2015 then it is 2 years from that date. As far as I know if it last happened in 2014 the 2 years doesn't apply, then the LL can give 90 days notice for an increase.

    In relation to the deposit I don't think there is any way an increase can be compelled. It is a security deposit and is not supposed to be used to cover rent.

    Edit: As corrected below, the LL will have to wait 24 months from the commencement of the tenancy or last rent review.


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    #14
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Sarn wrote: »
    If the rent was reviewed in 2015 then it is 2 years from that date. As far as I know if it last happened in 2014 the 2 years doesn't apply, then the LL can give 90 days notice for an increase.

    In relation to the deposit I don't think there is any way an increase can be compelled. It is a security deposit and is not supposed to be used to cover rent.

    If there was no rent review in the 12 months prior to the enactment of the new amendment, then the limit is at least 24 months after the commencement of the tenancy.


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    #15
    Gator88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Gator88


    One way to look at is that you will have an extra €200 returned to you when you leave


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    #16
    JustShon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭JustShon


    Gator88 wrote: »
    One way to look at is that you will have an extra €200 returned to you when you leave

    Because landlords never decide to keep deposits for little to no reason at all.


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    #17
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    JustShon wrote: »
    Because landlords never decide to keep deposits for little to no reason at all.

    And tenants never use the deposit as the last month's rent?


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    #18
    JustShon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭JustShon


    davo10 wrote: »
    And tenants never use the deposit as the last month's rent?

    My point being that "Looking on it as an extra €200 to get back at the end" isn't exactly acknowledging the reality that landlords often withhold the deposit for very thing reasons. It may, in fact, be an extra €200 for the landlord to hang on to at the end for little or no reason.

    Before anyone goes there: I know some (maybe even many) tenants do deserve to have their deposit withheld, I've known some of those tenants and it's doubtful the landlord even recouped their cost with the deposit.

    There's scum on both sides of the tenant / landlord divide.


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    #19
    Gator88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Gator88


    JustShon wrote: »
    Because landlords never decide to keep deposits for little to no reason at all.

    I totally agree with you. I know one lady landlord & she owns some tasty property in some of the more expensive parts of Dublin. Like myself she has a team of tradesmen she uses all the time. Her trick is to get a letter from one of the tradesmen to say that the house was left in such a bad way.
    The last one I saw the painter signed a letter she had typed saying that he'd painted the whole place before the tenant moved in & it was in such a bad way that the whole house needed painting again at a cost of over €3500. If the tenant argued about not getting the deposit back they were threated with the full painting costs. The painter reluctantly signed but she gives him so much work that he buckled.

    I have been fighting for tighter regulation in the rental sector with minimum standards for years now. I saw a comment on another thread last week & the gist of it is: Taxis have to have a good paint job, clean upholstery with no springs broken etc. The car must have a maintained first aid kit. It cant be more than 10 years old. Its inspected every year with the possibility of surprise inspections. It can be taken off the road there & then if it fails any of these things. This is to ensure you have a comfortable journey. Your journey might last a half an hour. And yet the place you live in, sleep in, eat in has no minimum standards & has no inspections.
    This has never made sense to me.


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    #20
    JustShon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭JustShon


    Gator88 wrote: »
    I totally agree with you. I know one lady landlord & she owns some tasty property in some of the more expensive parts of Dublin. Like myself she has a team of tradesmen she uses all the time. Her trick is to get a letter from one of the tradesmen to say that the house was left in such a bad way.
    The last one I saw the painter signed a letter she had typed saying that he'd painted the whole place before the tenant moved in & it was in such a bad way that the whole house needed painting again at a cost of over €3500. If the tenant argued about not getting the deposit back they were threated with the full painting costs. The painter reluctantly signed but she gives him so much work that he buckled.

    I have been fighting for tighter regulation in the rental sector with minimum standards for years now. I saw a comment on another thread last week & the gist of it is: Taxis have to have a good paint job, clean upholstery with no springs broken etc. The car must have a maintained first aid kit. It cant be more than 10 years old. Its inspected every year with the possibility of surprise inspections. It can be taken off the road there & then if it fails any of these things. This is to ensure you have a comfortable journey. Your journey might last a half an hour. And yet the place you live in, sleep in, eat in has no minimum standards & has no inspections.
    This has never made sense to me.

    I've had "Professional cleaning needed" thrown at me as a tenant before, despite having had a professional cleaner in myself. I suppose I should've been thankful that he didn't keep all of the deposit.

    We're derailing OP's thread a little at this rate though.


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    #21
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Gator88 wrote: »
    And yet the place you live in, sleep in, eat in has no minimum standards & has no inspections.
    This has never made sense to me.

    There are minimum standards
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html
    and inspections can be conducted by local authorities, although in practice I'm not sure how often these occur. There have been threads of tenants with a landlord with an improvement notice for the property from the local authority.

    There are also prohibition notices which prevent landlords renting out a subpar property on penalty of fines and/or prosecution.

    Beyond what is listed as the minimum requirements, the PRTB can act in cases where the landlord is not doing maintenance or not conducting their obligations under the RTA 2004.


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    #22
    Gator88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Gator88


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    There are minimum standards
    [.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html[/url]
    and inspections can be conducted by local authorities, although in practice I'm not sure how often these occur. There have been threads of tenants with a landlord with an improvement notice for the property from the local authority.

    There are also prohibition notices which prevent landlords renting out a subpar property on penalty of fines and/or prosecution.

    Beyond what is listed as the minimum requirements, the PRTB can act in cases where the landlord is not doing maintenance or not conducting their obligations under the RTA 2004.

    But there are no annual inspections for rental property. The point I was making was the difference in regulation on taxis that you spend minutes in and the regulation or lack of for a place that you spend at least a third of your life. Well you spend a third of your life in bed so you possibly spend half your life at home.

    There was another thread but it got shut down. Some of the landlords on it were trying to defend poorly maintained rental units. Their opinion is well if it hasn't been painted in years. springs sticking out of beds, carpets threadbare etc and the tenant inspects it before agreeing to rent it then its ok.

    My mum and dad lived in the tenements in Dublin city. I was talking to my mum, shes pushing 90 now. I told her about these comments. She said she remembers her landlord in the tenements saying the same thing. "But I don't force them to rent off a me".

    I really think we can do better. If I rent a commercial unit to someone on a 35 year lease I have written into the lease that the property must be painted at least every 5 years. this is pretty standard in a lease. For me to put this into a lease & not provide the same type of standard to a residential unit that I rent would be very hypocritical of me.
    We defiantly need better standards.


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    #23
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Gator88 wrote: »
    But there are no annual inspections for rental property. The point I was making was the difference in regulation on taxis that you spend minutes in and the regulation or lack of for a place that you spend at least a third of your life. Well you spend a third of your life in bed so you possibly spend half your life at home.

    There was another thread but it got shut down. Some of the landlords on it were trying to defend poorly maintained rental units. Their opinion is well if it hasn't been painted in years. springs sticking out of beds, carpets threadbare etc and the tenant inspects it before agreeing to rent it then its ok.

    My mum and dad lived in the tenements in Dublin city. I was talking to my mum, shes pushing 90 now. I told her about these comments. She said she remembers her landlord in the tenements saying the same thing. "But I don't force them to rent off a me".

    I really think we can do better. If I rent a commercial unit to someone on a 35 year lease I have written into the lease that the property must be painted at least every 5 years. this is pretty standard in a lease. For me to put this into a lease & not provide the same type of standard to a residential unit that I rent would be very hypocritical of me.
    We defiantly need better standards.

    Okay we're straying too far from the thread topic at this stage. I'll suggest you open another thread if you wish to discuss inspections and rental standards further.


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