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Mortgages for the regular public

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eeguy wrote: »
    Renting is not a secure option, as any glance at the accommodation and property forum will show you, especially those looking to start a family.

    There is no culture of long term renting in this country and one shouldn't be forced onto people.

    Well maybe if people started renting long term, then there would be a culture of long term renting?
    Why shouldn't it be forced on people? What do you suggest?


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    #63
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well maybe if people started renting long term, then there would be a culture of long term renting?
    Why shouldn't it be forced on people? What do you suggest?

    Why should somebody have renting "forced" on them?


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    #64
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well maybe if people started renting long term, then there would be a culture of long term renting?
    And maybe if my gran had wheels she'd be a motorbike.
    People don't tend to rent long term. End of. People like to pay their own mortgage, not someone else's, to own their own space and not have to get permission to paint the walls.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    Why shouldn't it be forced on people? What do you suggest?
    Because there is no mechanism to force either landlord or tenant to sign up for it, and if one was introduced landlords just wouldn't rent, like many are doing now.

    I've listed many suggestions above.

    The point is that through knee jerk reactivity, the government has successfully f*cked up renting for landlords, reducing the renting stock, and through inactivity done nothing for those looking to buy a house close to the main centre for jobs and education in the country.


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    #65
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    kona wrote: »
    If it allows young professionals on permanent contracts earning the average wage to buy a house of say they would be very popular.

    Somebody needs to take the finger out in government and sort out the mess before more people leave the country.

    that was what was on offer, and it didn't, how do you envisage it working?


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kona wrote: »
    Why should somebody have renting "forced" on them?

    Well if they can't afford to buy, then they have to rent right?

    Unless they move somewhere they can afford to buy.


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    #67
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    mansize wrote: »
    that was what was on offer, and it didn't, how do you envisage it working?

    Because the schemes need to be government run, as no developer wants to be a landlord and wait a decade to get paid for a house.

    It all comes back to government inactivity.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well if they can't afford to buy, then they have to rent right?

    Unless they move somewhere they can afford to buy.
    Can't afford to buy = must rent.
    Pay rent = can't afford to buy.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eeguy wrote: »

    Can't afford to buy = must rent.
    Pay rent = can't afford to buy.

    Such is demand and supply.
    What do you suggest?


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    #69
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yep, it's called renting.
    Rent where you want to live.
    eeguy wrote: »
    Renting is not a secure option, as any glance at the accommodation and property forum will show you, especially those looking to start a family.

    There is no culture of long term renting in this country and one shouldn't be forced onto people.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well maybe if people started renting long term, then there would be a culture of long term renting?
    Why shouldn't it be forced on people? What do you suggest?
    Rent tends to increase in line with inflation. The relative cost of mortgage repayments tend to decrease with inflation. This tends to make renting more expensive than a mortgage over the the long term.

    Most people rely on having a fully paid for house over their head before they retire (or before they have the added expense of sending children to college) so that they can live in reasonable comfort and security when they need to live on a pension that is less than they used to earn.

    No government seems to be willing or able to think any further than the next election. None appear to have looked at what is going to happen to the long term renters or owners in multi unit development or privately managed estates when they are hit with increasing management fees and reduced income on retiring. Adding more long term renters to the mix will only make the problem bigger. This is yet another housing ticking time bomb.


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    #70
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think you need to rethink your expectations.
    If you cannot afford to buy the house you want, in the area you want, then you need to lower your expectations.
    Buy where you can afford or rent where you want to live.

    Just because you went to college does not entitle you to buy the house where you want.

    So after 4 or 5 generations of living in the area where all your family is, all your friends are and where your job is,working your ass off in education and then working your ass in a job you should just give up and move away from all your entire life?
    Not talking about a house at this stage just a 1 room apartment even?

    that's reasonable to you?


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Skatedude wrote: »
    So after 4 or 5 generations of living in the area where all your family is, all your friends are and where your job is,working your ass off in education and then working your ass in a job you should just give up and move away from all your entire life?
    Not talking about a house at this stage just a 1 room apartment even?

    that's reasonable to you?

    Anyone can afford a one bedroom apartment in Dublin


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    #72
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Anyone can afford a one bedroom apartment in Dublin
    Tell that to the homeless, the people in emergency accommodation, the people being priced out of the rental market, the people sleeping three or four to a room, the people who's wages barely covers their outgoing, the 30 and 40 year old back living with parents etc etc etc...


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    #73
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Anyone can afford a one bedroom apartment in Dublin

    so after working full time 50 hour weeks for 30+ years, the best i can ever hope for is a run down 1 room apartment? is that your goal in life?


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    #74
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Skatedude wrote: »
    so after working full time 50 hour weeks for 30+ years, the best i can ever hope for is a run down 1 room apartment? is that your goal in life?

    What do you think you should hope for/ be entitled to expect?


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    #75
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    Stheno wrote: »
    What do you think you should hope for/ be entitled to expect?

    Entititled? Hopefully not to die of old age in a run down 1 room flat in a decrepit part of the city after 60+ years of hard work? Is that really too much to hope for?


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    #76
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    That includes 1 beds, apartments, and poor areas as well as areas well outside the city.
    Do you think single 20 somethings in other European capitals are in a position to buy or even rent 2+ bed houses in nice areas????

    This is a non-issue.

    There is a housing issue, but the solution lies in making it easier and more attractive to build up, rather than out. The rental sector needs major reform for all concerned.


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    #77
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note : Folks please remember the forum charter. Stay civil. Attack the post and not the poster.

    Finally this is accommodation and property, not politics, while some crossover is inevitable, please take your political rants to the politics fora.

    Thanks


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    #78
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Skatedude wrote: »
    I've worked damn hard for 30+ years,(since i was 10) got good collage qualifications etc and now due to the 3.5 times salary rule for mortgages, I either live at home with my mother into my forties or move out of the area where my family and friends have lived for 3 to 4 generations to the middle of nowhere or try for a 1 room dump of an apartment in the worst area's of dublin?

    fair dosen't even come into it.

    If you've been living at home all that time you should have a ton of money saved.


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    #79
    Jen44
    Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Jen44


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Depending on the job. A recently qualified accountant can expect to make €45k in their twenties. It would be close to €85k after a few years. The harsh reality is just some people wont be ever in the position to get a mortgage. The state should provide housing for them.

    This whole thread has been blaming the CB for people dont being able to get easy credit. The job of the CB is protect the interest of the entire economy. The property crash destroyed the economy and should never be repeated. Hence the mortgage rules

    The thing that everyone should be annoyed on is social housing rules. Go to any major American city(even small ones) and you can earn close to €100k a year. Yet you are still entitled to social housing. Your rent will be slightly less than the market rate. Versus living in a DCC area, where if you barely earn more than the minimum wage and you are not entitled to social housing

    Instead of blaming the CB for doing their job. People should be pissed with the Government for failing to providing housing for the middle class. Ireland has to be one of the few countries in the Western World, where hard work is punished with high taxes and low amount of services. Versus the UK or USA, where hard work is rewarded.

    IMO it is insane that a person on €25k should have to pay full market rent. DCC should be building 20-40 storey apartment blocks for working professionals, like NYC did in the past. I seriously doubt people working for the big four are going to have the same social issues as the residents of Ballymun caused. Working professionals can live in high rise building. High density Upper East Side NYC has little social problems compared to low density Bushwick. If you make a serious dent in housing shortages for professionals, you will start freeing up lower priced housing for social housing, that professionals have had no choice but to live in


    very optimistic salaries there my husband is around 8 years qualified ACA and Tax and his wages are far from 85K working for a very good practice!


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    #80
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    I see words in here like "the government" and "entitled". The government don't care, why should they? The electorate are stupid enough to re elect a party that bankrupted the country 6 years ago, so the bar is very low.

    Dublin is completely overpriced. If you have transferable skills, get out of Dublin !


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    #81
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The government should be providing social housing for less well off people, it's not their job to give you a fancy house in as nice area that you want to live in.

    Lol the opposite of what I said.


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    #82
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Mod note : Folks please remember the forum charter. Stay civil. Attack the post and not the poster.

    Finally this is accommodation and property, not politics, while some crossover is inevitable, please take your political rants to the politics fora.

    Thanks

    I agree. I felt your colleague moderator in the earlier posts was really jumping down Phoenix's neck.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Lol the opposite of what I said.

    Really?
    You seem to suggest that someone else should provide you with a house.
    That's the way you're coming across.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Skatedude wrote: »
    so after working full time 50 hour weeks for 30+ years, the best i can ever hope for is a run down 1 room apartment? is that your goal in life?

    My goal?
    No!
    I would buy what I could afford. Which is what I suggest you do. Maybe move further away to get what you want.


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    #85
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    mansize wrote: »
    You asked why people may be against affordable homes... I presented a number of issues surrounding them, and you seem to ignore them.

    Its not easy to develop a housing strategy that pleases everyone.


    Would you consider a two bed flat to get on the property ladder?

    As I said, I'm not going to give you a full long long term housing strategy here.


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    #86
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Exactly. I also find it odd that 90% of houses etc are 300-400k+ whereas only 10%ish should have salaries large enough to buy these. The figures don't really add up.

    While this is a wild exaggeration, it does have some merit. On daft if you look at 3+ bed properties above and below 300k, you get ~800 below and ~1600 above.

    Median household income in Ireland is around 50k, but for average house buying age and in Dublin let's raise that to 60k. This puts an upper bound of ~275k, which then has ~650 below and ~1900 above. That shows half the house buying public in Dublin competing for a quarter of the properties.

    If we expand the search to 2+ beds, we get ~1200 v ~2200, so a half going for a third of properties. This shows that the market can only bear the lower half of the market in smaller properties and less desirable locations and even then there's higher competition for what's available.


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    #87
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I fully agree with the deposit rules... the generations before us generally had to do quite a bit of saving in order to buy a house. The whole 100% or 90% mortgage thing just didn't exist.

    Now, the only way I'd change them is I'd allow proven rent payments over a number of years to partially offset the deposit requirement. That will alleviate the crazy situation where a couple paying €1500 per month in rent can't save the deposit for a house that they would only be paying €900 or €1000 per month mortgage on.


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    #88
    Utah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Utah


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Now, the only way I'd change them is I'd allow proven rent payments over a number of years to partially offset the deposit requirement. That will alleviate the crazy situation where a couple paying €1500 per month in rent can't save the deposit for a house that they would only be paying €900 or €1000 per month mortgage on.

    So if a couple could prove they've been paying ~1200 rent for past few years as well as saving 500 - 1000 euro a month, their deposit percentage could be decreased?

    I like that


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    #89
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Really?
    You seem to suggest that someone else should provide you with a house.
    That's the way you're coming across.

    In no way am I suggesting the government should build me a palace where I want. Are you even reading my posts or just blindly making observations.

    The jobs are in the Dublin. The affordable houses are not in Dublin. Can you not see the clear issue here?

    So you are basically happy with a market which has restricted young professionals to work hard through education and in their career and still not be able to afford a reasonable home not 100 miles from where they work?


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    #90
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I fully agree with the deposit rules... the generations before us generally had to do quite a bit of saving in order to buy a house. The whole 100% or 90% mortgage thing just didn't exist.

    Now, the only way I'd change them is I'd allow proven rent payments over a number of years to partially offset the deposit requirement. That will alleviate the crazy situation where a couple paying €1500 per month in rent can't save the deposit for a house that they would only be paying €900 or €1000 per month mortgage on.

    Great post and interesting solution.


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    #91
    ando
    Registered Users Posts: 5,399 ✭✭✭ando


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Great post and interesting solution.

    This has been thought about for some considerable amount of time now already but the government has not moved on the idea


This discussion has been closed.
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