Mortgages for the regular public

Michael D Not Higgins

ando wrote: »

This has been thought about for some considerable amount of time now already but the government has not moved on the idea

It would be the Central Bank that would have to move on the idea and they are unlikely to do so. The deposit rules means that there is an investment by the buyer into the property. It prevents buyers from reneging on a mortgage in negative equity as they have something to lose.

If there were a regime where you could get a 100% mortgage because of rent payments, then say the property market drops 10%, the buyer would lose nothing by going bankrupt or stop paying the mortgage and allowing the bank to repossess.

This is the reason for the LTV and LTI. LTV protects the bank and LTI protects the buyer.

MrMorooka

Only thing that bothers me is that as a single person who will probably always be single, unless I triple my income I will never own a nice property in Dublin. I also pay more tax than the breeders. It's a disgrace Joe.

OldNotWIse

Stheno wrote: »

Two people with two incomes of 50k would be potentially in a position to buy at that level

The Central bank have the current rules in place to prevent what happened in the last crash.

Just because you work, doesn't mean you are "entitled" to a mortgage to buy your own home.

Are the prices you are talking about Dublin prices? Certainly wouldn't be the case for 90% of houses in the country overall.

The average industrial wage is 32k

MrMorooka

professore wrote: »

Dublin is completely overpriced. If you have transferable skills, get out of Dublin !

Also, this, tbh. Dublin is not value for money and most professionals who want city life would be better served by emigrating. Unfortunately the monolingual Anglophone nature of our population creates issues doing that, but it is a medium term option I am considering for myself.

RuMan

Years ago, one earner could pay for a mortgage and the other parent could mind their kids. Now the kids are dumped in a crèche being looked after by somebody earning the minimum wage for 12 hours a day while both parents work constantly. That's progress ! Pointing this out leads to being labelled a misogynist by deluded Ivana Bacik types.

There's also the issue that large number of non nationals arrived her over the last 20 years and all have to be housed. The PC thugs will probably accuse me of racism for stating this but if demand increases then prices will naturally go up unless there's a similar increase in supply. None of the consequences of this were examined at the time by our short term thinking politicians.

In terms of solutions there are no easy ones. An excess demand and shortage of supply problem can only be addressed by increasing supply (build more houses) or reducing demand.

JMurphy84

If you think Dublin is bad take a look at London! I know its hard to compare the two like for like but property prices there are off the scale. I lived and worked there for 7 years earning a decent wage and would struggle to buy an average 3 bed (£500k+) in a decent area in my forties never mind my twenties!!!

Its one of the main reasons I moved home was to get on the property ladder. Recently went sale agreed on a 4 bed in Celbridge. Looked at properties closer to the city but the value for money you get just a few miles outside the M50 was enough for me and its only 20 minutes from town! If people really want to get on the ladder the majority can. Look at a place like Mullingar. It's only an hour away (motorway all the way) with alot of properties under 200k, I dont think a 2 hour commute is all that bad if you're desperate enough to buy your own gaff.

My point is that people need to stop buying a postcode and buy a home!

punisher5112

I Am renting paying out a lot and honestly this should be used to put against a mortgage.

I am paying so much its near impossible to save.

Things have only got worse over last few years and rents just keep rising.

Speedwell

"If you can't afford a house, you can always rent". And then the landlords on other threads in this forum, "sure, who wants to be a landlord these days, it's such a hostile climate for landlords, we get the short end of the stick, tenants are trash".

"If you go to work and get a job, you can afford a house", and "If people really wanted affordable houses, the market would provide it to them". And then I hear people say, "Oh, yeah, the housing market and the employment market are manipulated by the government".

"Look at all those struggling people with kids, how dare they have kids when they don't have a decent place to raise them". But, "I don't know why young people are so entitled these days that they want a home of their own".

"By the time you're in your 40s and 50s you are probably already a comfortable homeowner". Well, I'm 50 this year, and I immigrated from America two years ago after marrying my Irish husband, and as single people we didn't own our own houses (you should have seen my great apartment in America though) so oops, sorry, folks, no houses to sell. I'm employed, but I'll be lucky if I can even get a credit card, let alone a 20-year mortgage, at my age.

"It's easy for couples to get jobs that enable them to afford a nice house", but "you should move away from the cities and buy homes in the country where there are no jobs".

"The councils have programs that can help you", but "You have to have habitual residency and be on rental assistance", so god help you if you're a self-supporting immigrant living off savings and a low-paying job instead of drawing benefits.

"Wow, your rent is high. Why don't you just buy a place?" Oh, forget it, I wash my hands of the lot of you.

Pheonix10

Pheonix10 wrote: »

In no way am I suggesting the government should build me a palace where I want. Are you even reading my posts or just blindly making observations.

The jobs are in the Dublin. The affordable houses are not in Dublin. Can you not see the clear issue here?

So you are basically happy with a market which has restricted young professionals to work hard through education and in their career and still not be able to afford a reasonable home not 100 miles from where they work?

But it has been shown on this thread that there are plenty of homes in Dublin that are affordable. They're just not what you want or in an area you want.

Sleepy

Lets be honest, most of what's affordable is in areas that have serious social problems. People don't want to buy houses in areas where the majority of their neighbours will be social housing tenants.

MrMorooka

Basically, yeah. Ireland has systemic intractable social and political problems when it comes to housing and I have no confidence we will fix them. Really you just have to live with it.

eeguy

JMurphy84 wrote: »

I dont think a 2 hour commute is all that bad if you're desperate enough to buy your own gaff.

My point is that people need to stop buying a postcode and buy a home!

This is another reason why the government should step in and start building high rises in the city.

The motorway infrastructure around the city is choking with commuters. At least a housing scheme would have some payback for the initial investment, rather than more €30 million per km roadworks.

A 10 story 60 apartment complex could house 200 people, potentially 400 less cars on the road per day. Build 10 of these and you've reduced the motorway traffic problem, reduced the housing crisis, reduced the homeless crisis and potentially made some money in the bargain.

sbsquarepants

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Yes that is exactly what I expected. Not unrealistic. I didn't get a regular qualification, I got a first class honours degree and a masters. A house is a pretty fundamental thing that everyone should be able to afford if they work hard. How low are your expectations?

I don't mean to be insulting, but getting an education is not the same thing as "working your ass off". You are of course to be commended on getting such a high level of education, far higher than my own btw - but what has that benefited the state?
It may well do in years to come but right now - it's nothing but potential.
A friend of mine has a PHD - he's working in a job he hates (in a completely unrelated field) for next to nothing just to make ends meet. His PHD is essentially worthless, just because he has it doesn't entitle him to jack **** - why should it?

The idea you should be able to waltz out of college and into a fancy house as a reward for your hard work is just plain stupid.

Speedwell

People of modest means should be able to buy modest homes. Somewhere in there, either our expectation of what "modest means" is or our expectation of what a "modest home" is has gone out of whack. Years ago someone criticized a writer for having "middle class ideals of decency" (in a context where nearly everyone suffered from abominable poverty). If we think a decent life can only be had by obtaining the trappings of middle class life, then we seem to have put ourselves, as a society, in the position of ensuring that everyone has middle class means. When I was a Libertarian in America, I thought this was ridiculous on its face. Now that I'm over that silly, naive stage, I think that is actually what Ireland is, commendably, trying to accomplish.

sbsquarepants

eeguy wrote: »

This is another reason why the government should step in and start building high rises in the city.

The motorway infrastructure around the city is choking with commuters. At least a housing scheme would have some payback for the initial investment, rather than more €30 million per km roadworks.

A 10 story 60 apartment complex could house 200 people, potentially 400 less cars on the road per day. Build 10 of these and you've reduced the motorway traffic problem, reduced the housing crisis, reduced the homeless crisis and potentially made some money in the bargain.

It's a good idea, but I think you're underestimating the scale required. I'm sitting overlooking the M50 at the moment - I'd say 400 cars will pass me in the next 2 minutes. 400 cars less on the road would have zero impact, either would 4000. You'd need to be well into the tens of thousands to have any noticeable effect.

KERSPLAT!

In 2014 the M50 toll was passing 120k cars per day, I'd say that has risen significantly since. 4k cars would have little impact on traffic

Speedwell

At the risk of sounding oblivious, it is pretty rare for a dwelling built for five people to be occupied by five actual working people all making the average salary. It is much less rare for it to be occupied by five people, one of which makes roughly three times the average salary. one of which makes roughly two times the average salary, and three of whom make collectively less than the average salary (for example).

eeguy

There's very few one and two bed apartments in the city. Walk 5 mins in any direction from O'Connell St, and you see terraced houses.
Apartments in Dublin are usually houses which have been poorly subdivided into separate dwellings.

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

In 2014 the M50 toll was passing 120k cars per day, I'd say that has risen significantly since. 4k cars would have little impact on traffic

That's true, 120k cars throughout the 24hrs of the day.

But these 4k cars would almost universally be commuters.

I can't find hourly stats, but for arguments sake say there's 60k cars during the 7-9am and 5-7pm rush hour slots.

So 60k cars in 4 hours.
If you could reduce this by 4k, then that 7% reduction.
Not bad considering it's a side benefit to solving a totally separate housing crisis.

lisasimpson

I agree with the original poster.im in my 30s worked hard living in the south have a good bit saved but coz im a single applicant its almost impossible. Not looking for anything mad id be happy out with a 2bed place...
people may go on about obession with buying a hse but the country isnt set up for long term renting either and renting is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive

KomradeBishop

mansize wrote: »

The cost of buying a house is lower than building one in a lot of areas at the moment, thats why there is no incentive for developers to build.

There isn't really any credible evidence for this.

Allinall

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There isn't really any credible evidence for this.

The evidence is the builders and developers sitting on their hands, rather than building houses.

Do you really think that if there was profit to be made they wouldn't be going after it?

wally79

Allinall wrote: »

The evidence is the builders and developers sitting on their hands, rather than building houses.

Do you really think that if there was profit to be made they wouldn't be going after it?

I think there may be a profit but some are betting on the market going up.

Why build 10 houses you can sell for 500k today when you can wait and build 10 houses to sell for 600k

Absolutely opinion based with no factual back up

0gac3yjefb5sv7

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't mean to be insulting, but getting an education is not the same thing as "working your ass off". You are of course to be commended on getting such a high level of education, far higher than my own btw - but what has that benefited the state?
It may well do in years to come but right now - it's nothing but potential.
A friend of mine has a PHD - he's working in a job he hates (in a completely unrelated field) for next to nothing just to make ends meet. His PHD is essentially worthless, just because he has it doesn't entitle him to jack **** - why should it?

The idea you should be able to waltz out of college and into a fancy house as a reward for your hard work is just plain stupid.

When did anyone say anything about a fancy house?! I completely disagree. Your friend is highly skilled and has made the commitments to education in order reap the benefits at the other side in terms of a very high paying job. Sure if college doesn't allow you to earn more money then we would all just skip school at 13 and go to work earning minimum wage.

Hate when people keep using entitle. I am not asking for a house for free. I am saying if you work hard through education and work you should be able to afford a place to live.

Hardly a big ask. Should be the minimum level of reward.

KomradeBishop

Allinall wrote: »

The evidence is the builders and developers sitting on their hands, rather than building houses.

Do you really think that if there was profit to be made they wouldn't be going after it?

That's not evidence of anything other than them being happy to sit on their hands rather than build.

Developers have actually taken the government to the EU courts, for attempting to build social housing (really, they have done this...), while themselves not building anything - what does that say?

That maybe they profit more by letting the existing housing stock inflate in price, rather than building...(so that when they do build, they can try and draw as big of a profit as possible, from the inflated land/house prices)

Deagol

Pheonix10 wrote: »

When did anyone say anything about a fancy house?! I completely disagree. Your friend is highly skilled and has made the commitments to education in order reap the benefits at the other side in terms of a very high paying job. Sure if college doesn't allow you to earn more money then we would all just skip school at 13 and go to work earning minimum wage.

Hate when people keep using entitle. I am not asking for a house for free. I am saying if you work hard through education and work you should be able to afford a place to live.

Hardly a big ask. Should be the minimum level of reward.

I'm always puzzled were people get this rule-book on how life should be from? I didn't get given one, am I missing out on my entitlements?? :rolleyes:

Speedwell

Deagol wrote: »

I'm always puzzled were people get this rule-book on how life should be from? I didn't get given one, am I missing out on my entitlements?? :rolleyes:

You may be missing out on your social skills.

wally79

Pheonix10 wrote: »

When did anyone say anything about a fancy house?! I completely disagree. Your friend is highly skilled and has made the commitments to education in order reap the benefits at the other side in terms of a very high paying job. Sure if college doesn't allow you to earn more money then we would all just skip school at 13 and go to work earning minimum wage.

Hate when people keep using entitle. I am not asking for a house for free. I am saying if you work hard through education and work you should be able to afford a place to live.

Hardly a big ask. Should be the minimum level of reward.

I'm in the same boat myself. But I don't understand what you would like to be done.

A lot of people have a good education, work hard and want to live in the same desirable areas but there's limited stock so the price goes up.

You either find a way to get to the level of pay required or you accept that you won't be able to live exactly where you want.

eeguy

wally79 wrote: »

A lot of people have a good education, work hard and want to live in the same desirable areas but there's limited stock so the price goes up.

But there doesn't need to be limited stock. There's plenty of vacant land, plenty of vacant buildings, plenty of run down buildings that could be knocked.

The problem is that the ball is mainly in the govt's court, as they have the resources and the freedom to alleviate these problems. And they're doing nothing.

Pheonix10

Pheonix10 wrote: »

When did anyone say anything about a fancy house?! I completely disagree. Your friend is highly skilled and has made the commitments to education in order reap the benefits at the other side in terms of a very high paying job. Sure if college doesn't allow you to earn more money then we would all just skip school at 13 and go to work earning minimum wage.

Hate when people keep using entitle. I am not asking for a house for free. I am saying if you work hard through education and work you should be able to afford a place to live.

Hardly a big ask. Should be the minimum level of reward.

You can afford a home, you just don't want the one you can afford.

screamer

Jees people are never happy. There's loads of us that bought at boom prices and it's tough going. Course we were laughed at and given little sympathy cause banks were throwing out money and we were all stupid........ Now to prevent that happening again there are more strict rules and people are still whinging. A mortgage is not the be all and and all of life.......a lot of the problems are because of the obsession with owning property in ireland now its even worse its owning a particular type of property in a particular part of Dublin mainly. For a lot of people a mortgage is a financial albatross.