quest race series pricing

woody1

85 quid ! for all distances, so if your doing a 20k super sprint or the full whack long race its 85 quid, or am i picking that up wrong
now rather than moan too much about the price increase / structure , id rather ask those that have done the first quest race if they thought it was value for money ..

i was / am interested in doing the sprint race in achill and having a decent go at it but 85 quid is a serious price for what is essentially equal to a sprint tri if you swap the kayaks for the swim, to be honest i think its a bit steep for the long race either, i appreciate theres all the usual logistics to putting on these races, but last april achill could be entered for 48 euro, so is there going to be 37 euro of a difference this year.. ( i see a discount code on the glendalough thread for 10% so that brings it to 77 ish if it still works , which is still a fair increase )

getting back to the original point does anyone that did quest killarney think it was value for money or was there any discernible difference between this years race under the quest banner and last years..

rebelgourmet

I did the Killarney March race 2016, and couldn't fault the organization, etc...

However, I had sent Quest a query recently about the changes in the Achill race format (previously well run by Paul Mahon). Quest have removed the swimming option and the ability for competitors bring their own kayaks.

They told me it was deemed an unfair advantage to bring your own kayak - but it is OK to bring your 20 grand carbon TT bike?? Go figure...

My point is that Quest are creating a 'homogenised'/standardized format for these races, and eliminating kayaking as a competitive discipline also. I liked it better when the different races were more diverse in terms of distances, disciplines, terrain etc. This is gone now - so boring!

Getting back to OP point, these are now very expensive duathlons, no?

woody1

rebelgourmet wrote: »

I did the Killarney March race 2016, and couldn't fault the organization, etc...

However, I had sent Quest a query recently about the changes in the Achill race format (previously well run by Paul Mahon). Quest have removed the swimming option and the ability for competitors bring their own kayaks.

They told me it was deemed an unfair advantage to bring your own kayak - but it is OK to bring your 20 grand carbon TT bike?? Go figure...

My point is the Quest are creating a 'homogenised' standard format for these races, and eliminating kayaking as a competitive discipline also. I liked it better when the different races were more diverse in terms of distances, disciplines, terrain etc. This is gone now - so boring!

Getting back to OP point, these are now very expensive duathlons, no?

was thinking that over lunch actually.. i ended up 20th last year in achill with maybe 10 guys on their own kayaks ahead of me, but i had the tt bike where a lot of them had road bikes.. i thought it balanced out, certainly didnt begrudge any of them their places... there are probably reasons but i thought the structured pricing less for shorter distance and lower price earlier in the year made more sense but maybe people werent going for it .. its possible that less entrants for higher cost works out better for them.. i dunno, im still on the fence as to whether to enter or not

rebelgourmet

woody1 wrote: »

but i thought the structured pricing less for shorter distance and lower price earlier in the year made more sense

price standardization i guess? a bit punitive in relative terms perhaps?



I was going to go, but changed my mind due to format changes.

rebelgourmet

Quite few folks raised the price increase question on the Quest Achill Race Facebook page discussion section, but I now see that all the 'offending' posts have been removed. There's customer service for ya!

Enduro

Lads, remember that these events are commercial races. Their entire reason for existing is to make money. (That's not a critisism... that's just factual). If the market will bear that pricing and they make a profit then their pricing is correct.

Not at all surprised at the illogicalness of not allowing people to bring their own kayaks when they can bring along a 20k bike. But again, this isn't any kind of organised sport like Triathlon/Duathlon. It's their own made up event, so they can make up any rules they like as they go along.

All these style events are essentially copies of the Gael Force 6 race (now called Gael Force West), which itself was just a support race for Gael Force 12, set up to give "armchair athletes" a mini-taste of what a full adventure race is like (GF12 was a full AR). This turned out to be a (unexpectedly) massive commercial success, hence the copycats all over the country. This also explains the ridiculously short kayaking stages. Making them any way challenging would more than likely be poor move from a commercial POV now.

Peterx

I completely agree with Enduro's post.

Quest's pricing, ban on kayaks and success seems to come down to marketing and knowing the market, and what the market will bear. Time will tell if their pricing model works.
On the kayaks I had assumed that was a one off for Glendalough and ensuring invasive species were kept out of the lake by using guaranteed clean hulls.

Back to marketing - GW12 was not even a full AR in that it was also a stage race with no overnight stages. Actually marketing GF12 as a longer stage race would have helped it's popularity. That Enduro recalls it as a full proper AR to my mind demonstrates the failure of marketing for this race.

Knowing your market - most people take up "adventure" sports after leaving their mainstream team sport, and most people doing so are men. Insisting on having to have a woman kills male participation in AR races, my GF12 team full apart that first year as our woman was called into work at the last minute.

A successful GF12 format would have probably led to a bigger pool of people interested in moving up to full AR, and thus helped make AR racing a commercial possibility in Ireland.

A reason why GF6 remains popular is that everyone does the same course and can relate to each other's experience over the pints. Otherwise it does fly in the face of the commercial reality as shown by the shape of races elsewhere - A to B course is logistically difficult, the course distance is also difficult for Enduro's " armchair racers" who are accomodated by the Sprint, Mini, Sport, Midi, Full, Long, Longer, Extreme options of other commercial operations - especially new ones, they have to get the punters in and so they have to be attractive across a range of distances.

Where full AR has failed in Ireland is in enticing Enduro's armchair racers onto the longer harder AR event. The Beast of Ballyhoura is the shining noble exception and of course Extreme26 are doing a good job.

Back to Quest - if value for money for you includes covering kilometres, do the long course.

Peterx

Pity about the kayaks all right, I remember Brian Kehoe destroying everyone on the lakes of Killarney one year. It was beautiful to see.

woody1

i know they are commercial races what i cant believe is that pricing a race at 85 euro is commercially succesful although both glendalough and killarney selling out indicate that it is and after checking online just now gaelforce is also at 85 euro, so thats obviously what the market will take


i dont think achill will sell out, its not close to major population like glendalough and its not an iconic location like killarney ,( dont get me wrong , i really like achill ) there always seem to be a lot of mayo people taking part in achill and id be surprised if many of these pay 85 quid to do it


im talking myself out of this one, i doubt that the quest race director is loosing much sleep about it ..

rebelgourmet

Peterx wrote: »

Pity about the kayaks all right, I remember Brian Kehoe destroying everyone on the lakes of Killarney one year. It was beautiful to see.

As a big lad, passing a few 'greyhounds' on the kayak leg was all I had to look forward to, now they've taken it away !!! :mad:

Enduro

Peterx wrote: »

On the kayaks I had assumed that was a one off for Glendalough and ensuring invasive species were kept out of the lake by using guaranteed clean hulls.

That's a good point actually. Would very definitely apply to Killarney as well.

Peterx wrote: »

Back to marketing - GW12 was not even a full AR in that it was also a stage race with no overnight stages. Actually marketing GF12 as a longer stage race would have helped it's popularity. That Enduro recalls it as a full proper AR to my mind demonstrates the failure of marketing for this race.

Ah it was an AR alright. But not an expedition length.

Peterx wrote: »

Knowing your market - most people take up "adventure" sports after leaving their mainstream team sport, and most people doing so are men. Insisting on having to have a woman kills male participation in AR races, my GF12 team full apart that first year as our woman was called into work at the last minute.

Yup, its a pain alright from a team building perspective. Probably goes back to the original creation of AR, and especially ECO-Challenge. Likely to make it better for TV.

Peterx wrote: »

A successful GF12 format would have probably led to a bigger pool of people interested in moving up to full AR, and thus helped make AR racing a commercial possibility in Ireland.

In fairness, I don't think AR could ever be a commercial possibility in Ireland to the same extent as the multi-sport races. It's just too time consuming to organise. Even world-wide I don't think anyone manages to organise an AR on sound financial basis once you account for people's time. Probably the only ones that came close were the ones that sold big TV deals, or were created as TV events (Eco Challenge again).

Peterx wrote: »

Where full AR has failed in Ireland is in enticing Enduro's armchair racers onto the longer harder AR event. The Beast of Ballyhoura is the shining noble exception and of course Extreme26 are doing a good job.

I've come o the conclusion that the armchair racers (/box tickers) never will do full AR. The bar is too high. OCR is where its at now (And well done to Mr Mahon on spotting that early).

ThisRegard

woody1 wrote: »

i dont think achill will sell out, its not close to major population like glendalough and its not an iconic location like killarney ,( dont get me wrong , i really like achill ) there always seem to be a lot of mayo people taking part in achill and id be surprised if many of these pay 85 quid to do it


im talking myself out of this one, i doubt that the quest race director is loosing much sleep about it ..

I used to do Achill most years when it was ROAR (€55 I think I last paid for the expert course) and you would always get a great crowd. It was like an end of season blow out for people and you'd meet a lot of the same faces that were doing the other races throughout the country. I haven't been on that scene in a while so don't know if it's still the same, but was always a great weekend.

However I never actually liked the course itself, as beautiful as it maybe. I always felt it suited cyclists much better than runners, especially if the longer run gets shortened to avoid Minnaun because of the weather. For the Sport course there practically isn't any climbing.

Enduro wrote: »

I've come o the conclusion that the armchair racers (/box tickers) never will do full AR. The bar is too high. OCR is where its at now (And well done to Mr Mahon on spotting that early).

What's OCR? something, cycle, run?

Peterx

I'm guessing either some variant of;

LCD - lowest common denominator

or

CLMR,NRAR - Crappy Little Multisport Races, Not Real AR

Enduro

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's OCR? something, cycle, run?

It's starting to come into more common use. Possibly I've been reading too much american material.

Obstacle Course Racing! The formal name for mud-runs (even when they are not races).

checky88

Anyone in for achill? Thinking of doing it have done the Killarney and glendalough races and enjoyed them bit on the pricey side tho

fletch

Yep I'm signed up...can''t wait for it.

checky88

Anyone have a promo code for this actually?

Animella

woody1 wrote: »

i know they are commercial races what i cant believe is that pricing a race at 85 euro is commercially succesful although both glendalough and killarney selling out indicate that it is and after checking online just now gaelforce is also at 85 euro, so thats obviously what the market will take


i dont think achill will sell out, its not close to major population like glendalough and its not an iconic location like killarney ,( dont get me wrong , i really like achill ) there always seem to be a lot of mayo people taking part in achill and id be surprised if many of these pay 85 quid to do it


im talking myself out of this one, i doubt that the quest race director is loosing much sleep about it ..

Going to be interesting to see the numbers in Achill. I'm one of those Mayo people who would have gone with a gang in the last few years but none of us are taking part this year because of the price. Loved the ROAR event , the scenery and the hoodies when they had them.
Going to do Lough Key tri next weekend instead.

woody1

animella

check out wild2wild in newport or the currane duathlon, not quite the same format as achill but should be good all the same
newport race takes in some really scenic / wild spots

micar

Am doing achill. Did roar a few years ago. Looking forward to it now.

Also signed up for kilkenny as well.

Animella

woody1 wrote: »

animella

check out wild2wild in newport or the currane duathlon, not quite the same format as achill but should be good all the same
newport race takes in some really scenic / wild spots

Thanks woody1,
I've done the Currane Challenge alright. Fab scenery especially along the coast into Mulranny. Currane peninsula can be very windy!
Must check out Newport one.
Just thinking about it, I've done two lovely, local, club run sprint triathlons in the past month ( my first two!) for less than the price of Achill quest.
But good luck to everyone doing it, enjoy

Animella

micar wrote: »

Am doing achill. Did roar a few years ago. Looking forward to it now.

Also signed up for kilkenny as well.

Enjoy!

fletch

I see in the information document, it's mentioned that there will be 20 single kayaks available. Would they be quicker than the doubles?

There will be at least 20 single kayaks available on a first come first served basis for all routes – You are not obliged to take a single kayak and may choose to pair up with a partner.

micar

fletch wrote: »

I see in the information document, it's mentioned that there will be 20 single kayaks available. Would they be quicker than the doubles?

Yep...but there will be a scramble for them.

fletch

micar wrote: »

Yep...but there will be a scramble for them.

Cheers...I'll try get one so

Enduro

micar wrote: »

Yep...but there will be a scramble for them.

Actually no. In general, if two kayaks are of the same type the double will be quicker than a single (both longer, and with double the engine). Of course it could also depend on who you get as a partner in a double, not to mention your own kayaking competence.

If they are single sea kayaks or similar, then they will be way way way fasters (SOTs are pigs.... safe for numpties, but pigs).

woody1

if your not up the front of the run its not gonna matter theyl be gone

id agree with enduro if you have a lot of kayak experience its probably worth trying to get one, if you dont, the double is most likely better ..

fletch

woody1 wrote: »

if your not up the front of the run its not gonna matter theyl be gone

id agree with enduro if you have a lot of kayak experience its probably worth trying to get one, if you dont, the double is most likely better ..

Im pretty sure I can get to the kayaks in the top 20...I'm here now so might take a wander around and see what the kayaks are like. I'd be fairly confident in a kayak so definitely think I'd benefit from a single rather than risk getting a poor partner.

Dingle provided single man sea kayaks and they were amazing...I was in the top 10 overall in that stage

micar

fletch wrote: »

Im pretty sure I can get to the kayaks in the top 20...I'm here now so might take a wander around and see what the kayaks are like. I'd be fairly confident in a kayak so definitely think I'd benefit from a single rather than risk getting a poor partner.

Dingle provided single man sea kayaks and they were amazing...I was in the top 10 overall

But the kayak is at the start unlike dingle which was at the end (well almost) and those doing the race had spread out.
I wasn't top 10 but still got a single kayak.