Is there an obligation on elected TDs to form a government?

Tombo2001

I don't mean a legal obligation.

But that:

The electorate voted for you guys.

Its up to you to form a government.

Don't cop out by coming back to us with another election that will probably have the same result.

To put it another way; it would be a reckless waste of taxpayers money if there is a second election.

An Ciarraioch

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I don't mean a legal obligation.

But that:

The electorate voted for you guys.

Its up to you to form a government.

Don't cop out by coming back to us with another election that will probably have the same result.

To put it another way; it would be a reckless waste of taxpayers money if there is a second election.

The problem is, who would go back on their word?

FF and FG both promised not to go in with the other, SF only planned to go in as the largest party, and Labour were only pledged to FG. Still, common sense suggests that the only two parties who can form a government should swallow their pride.

Tombo2001

I understand that.

But by that logic, only a majority can form a government; and there is just no way any party will get a majority any time soon.

Anyway, for my money, that's just a crutch. I'm annoyed that SF and Social Democrats are saying they have no interest in being in govt; but at least that that's more honest than saying "we are in discussions but we cant reach agreement".

The reality as we all know is that people don't want to be in govt because they are putting the good of the party ahead of the good of the country. The electorate should not accept this.

Jawgap

The Taoiseach must enjoy the support of the majority of the Dail, but he/she can then still go to form a minority government.

I can understand why the SDs and SF don't want to go into government, because we've seen what happens to small parties - they end up carrying the blame for everything bad and get very little of the credit for anything positive.

I'd imagine the SDs are not interested because they're still building and SF, I'd further imagine, would want to be in a much stronger position (at least on a par) with regards to any other potential coalition partner.

piuswal

It seems to me that FG are trying to reach out to as many as possible but FF's arrogance is breath taking.

They have their second worst election result ever and with fractionally less than 1 vote in four they are maintaining that their promise not to do a deal with FG outweighs all their other promises; housing for the homeless etc etc.

Perhaps they should remember the time when many of their founding members were so arrogant that they rejected a vote of the Dail and rejected a subsequent General Election result and started a Civil War which probably set back the development of this State an incalculable amount.

At least they have not resorted to extreme measures now but they certainly are not putting the people of this country before their narrow self centred grab for maximum advantage for the party.

Fr Tod Umptious

piuswal wrote: »

It seems to me that FG are trying to reach out to as many as possible but FF's arrogance is breath taking.

They have their second worst election result ever and with fractionally less than 1 vote in four they are maintaining that their promise not to do a deal with FG outweighs all their other promises; housing for the homeless etc etc.

Perhaps they should remember the time when many of their founding members were so arrogant that they rejected a vote of the Dail and rejected a subsequent General Election result and started a Civil War which probably set back the development of this State an incalculable amount.

At least they have not resorted to extreme measures now but they certainly are not putting the people of this country before their narrow self centred grab for maximum advantage for the party.

FG have more of a reason to reach our though.
The perception is that they "lost" the election, even though they have the biggest number of seats.

All FF has to do is sit on the sidelines, posture, and when a new election is called promise the moon and the stars, over emphasise all the bad things FG/Lab have done, and hopefully cone out better.

The flip side is that FG have grabbed the high moral ground here.
They are the ones willing to get things going.

Jawgap

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

FG have more of a reason to reach our though.
The perception is that they "lost" the election, even though they have the biggest number of seats.

All FF has to do is sit on the sidelines, posture, and when a new election is called promise the moon and the stars, over emphasise all the bad things FG/Lab have done, and hopefully cone out better.

The flip side is that FG have grabbed the high moral ground here.
They are the ones willing to get things going.

I think the perception may be that Enda lost the election - or that the electorate were clear in their view that he should not be Taoiseach.

I think you're right in the sense that gives cover to FF to sit on their hands and say they were honouring their mandate. The question they might be considering, though, is how much blame will they attract if they are perceived as 'causing' the next election?

Ultimately, while I think you're right that FG are currently in the ascendancy because they've engaged with FF, I don't think FF will be out-maneuvered by and Enda-led FG.

oscarBravo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The perception is that [FG] "lost" the election, even though they have the biggest number of seats.

Jawgap wrote: »

I think the perception may be that Enda lost the election - or that the electorate were clear in their view that he should not be Taoiseach.

I really don't understand the logic behind these perceptions.

If the electorate clearly expressed the view that the party with the plurality of the seats shouldn't lead the government, does that mean that the electorate doesn't want a government?

Lisa Chambers was quoted in my local paper this week as saying that the people didn't vote for FF to go into government with FG. Really? I don't recall seeing that question on my ballot paper.

Politicians in this country don't seem to have lost the art of looking into their hearts in order to know what the people want.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jawgap wrote: »

I think the perception may be that Enda lost the election - or that the electorate were clear in their view that he should not be Taoiseach.

I think you're right in the sense that gives cover to FF to sit on their hands and say they were honouring their mandate. The question they might be considering, though, is how much blame will they attract if they are perceived as 'causing' the next election?

Ultimately, while I think you're right that FG are currently in the ascendancy because they've engaged with FF, I don't think FF will be out-maneuvered by and Enda-led FG.

I see that Willie O Sea has already said the offer will be rejected, the alleged reason being that "the county did not want Kenny to be Taoiseach"
But in reality FF do not want SF to lead the opposition.

So I'd imagine the next move may be for FF to support a FG minority government and then pull the rug out from under them when the number crunchers suggest is the best time to do so.

piuswal

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I see that Willie O Sea has already said the offer will be rejected, the alleged reason being that "the county did not want Kenny to be Taoiseach"
But in reality FF do not want SF to lead the opposition.

So I'd imagine the next move may be for FF to support a FG minority government and then pull the rug out from under them when the number crunchers suggest is the best time to do so.

Indeed; RTE this morning-

"Mr Kenny took the initiative with a formal offer of involvement in what his party later called a "full partnership government" of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and independents.

Speaking as he arrived at Leinster House for the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party talks, TD Niall Collins said his party should not roll over and enter a partnership government with Fine Gael.

He said such a move would be a betrayal of an election pledge.

However, his party colleague John McGuinness described the Fine Gael offer as something that must be considered and the detail examined.

The Carlow-Kilkenny TD said he would have no problem with a partnership government that gave 50:50 to everyone involved.

He added that it was important to act responsibly and to put together a set of policies to improve people's lives.

However, his constituency colleague Bobby Aylward warned that a survey of party members in the area showed 80% were opposed to a coalition with Fine Gael."


FF putting the country first!

They do seem to have some reasonable people but then John McGuinness has not exactly been flavour of the month for many a year in FF.

Why should the Dáil not use PRSTV to elect a Taoiseach?

That way we get one, and the onus is then on them to attempt to form a Government.

Tombo2001

Deleted User wrote: »

Why should the Dáil not use PRSTV to elect a Taoiseach?

That way we get one, and the onus is then on them to attempt to form a Government.

You can elect a Taoiseach that way but you cant form a government with unwilling participants.

Ctrl Alt Delete

....

Ctrl Alt Delete

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'm annoyed that SF and Social Democrats are saying they have no interest in being in govt; but at least that that's more honest than saying "we are in discussions but we cant reach agreement".

I'm more than annoyed. In all reality (and I hate to be the one to round on SF) but Sinn Feins stance of wanting nothing to do with government means that they don't deserve a single vote next time around.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The flip side is that FG have grabbed the high moral ground here.
They are the ones willing to get things going.

By conveniently forgetting the FG rhetoric of the last 5 years of how bad FF were in government, how they are not fit for office and how they have ruined the country for generations to come.

Not to mention FG categorically stating they will never enter into government with FF prior to the 2016 election.

Yes, FG most definitely have the high moral ground here :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

By conveniently forgetting the FG rhetoric of the last 5 years of how bad FF were in government, how they are not fit for office and how they have ruined the country for generations to come.

Not to mention FG categorically stating they will never enter into government with FF prior to the 2016 election.

Yes, FG most definitely have the high moral ground here :rolleyes:

Yes FG did say how bad FF were in government, and they were bad, but they are also accepting the reality that has been presented to them by the public, which is that in order for a stable government to be created there needs to be input from FF

They are being pragmatic about it.

They are the ones who are trying hardest to form a government, is that in their best interest ?, of course it is, but it's also in the interest of the country.

FF on the other hand have rejected partnership, then continued with a charade that they could form a minority government, and now are seemingly agreeing with a minority FG government, but with a commitment to nothing, thus giving them the chance to pull the plug when it suits them best, but maybe not when it suits the country best.

And when did FG categorically sate that they never would go into government with FF, give us a source please.

An Ciarraioch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes FG did say how bad FF were in government, and they were bad, but they are also accepting the reality that has been presented to them by the public, which is that in order for a stable government to be created there needs to be input from FF

They are being pragmatic about it.

They are the ones who are trying hardest to form a government, is that in their best interest ?, of course it is, but it's also in the interest of the country.

FF on the other hand have rejected partnership, then continued with a charade that they could form a minority government, and now are seemingly agreeing with a minority FG government, but with a commitment to nothing, thus giving them the chance to pull the plug when it suits them best, but maybe not when it suits the country best.

And when did FG categorically sate that they never would go into government with FF, give us a source please.

Enda during the Claire Byrne debate.

piuswal

Whatever the various parties promised during the election, no one group got a majority.

Therefore, there must be a combination of some groups to form a Government.

Therefore compromises are necessary.

FF said they would not go into Government with FG, FG said no FF but the voters gave neither a majority so, I would argue, they are released from the absoluteness of those promises and with the majority of seats between should come together, hammer out a common approach for at least 3 years and get on with dealing with the problems facing the country.