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Should Parents allow their teenage children alcohol?

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    #32
    Rezident
    Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Allow? You can either facilitate them drinking in a safer, controlled environment or they will do it anyway in a random field or wherever.

    My own parents' zero tolerance approach to alcohol was a predictable failure. Luckily one of my friends had more realistic parents who let us drink cans in the shed at the bottom of their garden - that way their sons and daughters were drinking in their garden (literally) instead of in a field somewhere in the dark with random strangers.

    You know kids lie right? ('We're going to the cinema').


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    #33
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Rezident wrote: »

    You know kids lie right? ('We're going to the cinema').
    A good parent would catch a child out in lies.


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    #34
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I allowed my now 18 year old to have a drink with her meal when she was 14-15.

    At 16 she was allowed to have a drink on holidays if the law in the country in question allowed it.Not go mad mind you just a couple of beers a night.

    Definitely think it was for the best. Shes turned into a responsible drinker more so than I ever was ie drinking in fields at 15 onwards. And not just getting one or two beers..literally having to get friends drag me home.

    See the problem over here is the whole "no drinking till youre 18 and then boom--drink like a fish as soon as you either hit that age or can get alcohol somewhere"

    Definitely think its in a parents and teenagers interests to allow responsible drinking at a younger than legal age.Like someone said earlier the European countries where children / teens can have a glass of wine with a meal don't have a drinking problem like us.


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    #35
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Countries do not have an approach to drinking. Individuals do. This giving drink to children is all about people feling virtuous about doing something about the fact that some so called adults behave irresponsibly. The punishment should fit the crime.

    You don't half talk a load of nonsense.

    You also completely dodged the question about punishment. You insinuated earlier that parents cannot punish their children anymore. Given the only thing that's changed is not being allowed to hit your kids I'm guessing that's what you're referring to.

    If it is, then you'll excuse me if I don't take parenting advise from someone who thinks the only way to raise kids is by thumping them. :rolleyes:


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    #36
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    You don't half talk a load of nonsense.

    You also completely dodged the question about punishment. You insinuated earlier that parents cannot punish their children anymore. Given the only thing that's changed is not being allowed to hit your kids I'm guessing that's what you're referring to.

    If it is, then you'll excuse me if I don't take parenting advise from someone who thinks the only way to raise kids is by thumping them. :rolleyes:

    It was another poster who talked about getting the stick out. You are now trying to turn a discussion about drink into a discussion about corporal punishment which is now illegal so you don't have to stand over your comments about countries having an approach to drinking.


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    #37
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Teenagers under 18 are children. Children should not be given alcohol and should not be allowed consume it.The reason there is so much teenage drinking is because of irresponsible parenting. Alcohol is introduced in to every significant occasion in childrens lives.It is no wonder they associate drink with enjoyment and regard itb as a neccessity.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Parents aren't allowed to punish their children any more.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There is nothing sensible about giving drink to children. the parents own drinking pattern is irrelevant.
    Not having a phone or games console is not punishment. All it is doing is making them even more spoilt.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Countries do not have an approach to drinking. Individuals do. This giving drink to children is all about people feling virtuous about doing something about the fact that some so called adults behave irresponsibly. The punishment should fit the crime.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    A good parent would catch a child out in lies.

    God those posts are really full of sh1t to be completely honest.

    Answer me this--have you actually any experience whatsoever of parenting ie do you have any children yourself?


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    #38
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It was another poster who talked about getting the stick out. You are now trying to turn a discussion about drink into a discussion about corporal punishment which is now illegal so you don't have to stand over your comments about countries having an approach to drinking.

    nah it was you.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Parents aren't allowed to punish their children any more.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Not having a phone or games console is not punishment. All it is doing is making them even more spoilt.

    The insinuation from these posts are that since you can't now hit a child you are not able to control them. If you're someone who can't control a child without resorting to violence then I think your opinion in a parenting thread should count for less than nothing.


    As for parents on the continent teaching kids a healthy attitude to alcohol. Do some research before talking nonsense.


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    #39
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    God those posts are really full of sh1t to be completely honest.

    Answer me this--have you actually any experience whatsoever of parenting ie do you have any children yourself?

    I am not getting into replying to personalised attacks.


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    #40
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    nah it was you.





    The insinuation from these posts are that since you can't now hit a child you are not able to control them. If you're someone who can't control a child without resorting to violence then I think your opinion in a parenting thread should count for less than nothing.


    As for parents on the continent teaching kids a healthy attitude to alcohol. Do some research before talking nonsense.
    I did not advocate corporal punishment. Just because some parents give their children alcohol and those poarents do not themslevs have a drink problem does not mean cause and effect.


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    #41
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I did not advocate corporal punishment. Just because some parents give their children alcohol and those poarents do not themslevs have a drink problem does not mean cause and effect.

    OK then, for the third time, how should you punish a child who is bold if the law had not changed?


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    #42
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I am not getting into replying to personalised attacks.

    Not an attack..just my opinion.
    Im not the only one with that opinion either.

    This "holier than thou" attitude towards parenting makes my blood boil.

    Theres nothing worse than someone telling you how to raise your children if they don't have an experience themselves.


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    #43
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    I am not telling anyone how to raise their children. There is a fallacy at the root of this debate. Many people in Ireland are irresponsible drinkers. In Ireland alcohol may not be sold to under 18s. there are restrictions on minors being in pubs etc.
    In some other countries there are fewer people who are irresponsible drinkers. They supply drink to their children.
    Therefore, some people say that if Irish people supply drink to their children, there will be fewer irresponsible drinkers in Ireland.
    This is fallacious. The child of a responsible drinker is more likely to become a responsible drinker. The supply of drink to them as achild has nothing to do with it. The reason there aren't more irresponsible drinkers in a country is because fewer of the parents of those people were irresponsible drinkers.
    A parent who drinks irresponsibly is more likely to produce a child wo drinks irresponsibly whether or not the parent supplies the child with drink or not.


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    #44
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I am not telling anyone how to raise their children. There is a fallacy at the root of this debate. Many people in Ireland are irresponsible drinkers. In Ireland alcohol may not be sold to under 18s. there are restrictions on minors being in pubs etc.
    In some other countries there are fewer people who are irresponsible drinkers. They supply drink to their children.
    Therefore, some people say that if Irish people supply drink to their children, there will be fewer irresponsible drinkers in Ireland.
    This is fallacious. The child of a responsible drinker is more likely to become a responsible drinker. The supply of drink to them as achild has nothing to do with it. The reason there aren't more irresponsible drinkers in a country is because fewer of the parents of those people were irresponsible drinkers.
    A parent who drinks irresponsibly is more likely to produce a child wo drinks irresponsibly whether or not the parent supplies the child with drink or not.

    You think.

    Do you have any research to back this up?



    And you've still dodged my question. How would you punish a child if allowed by law?


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    #45
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    You think.

    Do you have any research to back this up?



    And you've still dodged my question. How would you punish a child if allowed by law?

    There is lots of research. This is not a thread about punishment.


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    #46
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There is lots of research. This is not a thread about punishment.

    Why did you bring it up then?


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    #47
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    Why did you bring it up then?
    I didn't bring it up. It was another poster.


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    #48
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Parents aren't allowed to punish their children any more.

    This was the first mention of it.

    How dishonest do you need to be.


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    #49
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Probably everyone I know was allowed the odd drink at home with the parents at Christmas, weddings etc. Nothing too strong and nothing excessive and not one of us has grown up to have any issues with alcohol. I've always done the same with my eldest who is now 19 and she too is fine. I don't know if my parents stance made me any more of a responsible drinker than I would have been if they had said no but it didn't do any harm. I don't think that its bad parenting unless you let it get out of control.


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    #50
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    This was the first mention of it.

    How dishonest do you need to be.

    No it wasn't. Another poster talked about getting out the stick. How dishonest do you need to be?


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    #51
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    No it wasn't. Another poster talked about getting out the stick. How dishonest do you need to be?

    The one stuck up your you-know-what. The one you're thinking of is called the "rod", per Biblical maxim. It would be really odd for someone who has clearly recommended lenience and tolerance in this thread to suddenly come across like the wrath of an angry God, eh?


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    #52
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    No it wasn't. Another poster talked about getting out the stick. How dishonest do you need to be?

    You don't seriously think that's what they meant in the reply to the post. They were saying take the stick from your arse not take the stick to beat the child.

    So no, you brought it up first.


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    #53
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Jayop wrote: »
    You don't seriously think that's what they meant in the reply to the post. They were saying take the stick from your arse not take the stick to beat the child.

    So no, you brought it up first.

    How do you know what I thought the other poster meant? If all you can do is resort to vulgar abuse and lies you are clearly out of road.


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    #54
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    How do you know what I thought the other poster meant? If all you can do is resort to vulgar abuse and lies you are clearly out of road.

    LOL you're really something.


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    #55
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    toptom wrote: »
    My eldest when he were a teen got brought home by the guards when he was 15 in thurles at the feile 91, Legless he was, Our family were mortified about it.
    He didn't see a drink again till he was 18 because we kept our eye on him and pretty much grounded him from then on. Once was enough in our house it wasnt going to occur again

    And how did he treat alcohol once over 18?

    I'd find it hard to define how alcohol was treated in my house growing up, but in my late teens & into twenties I had anything but a healthy relationship with alcohol.

    From my own experience I really don't know what to repeat and what to avoid. I would hate to see my daughter repeat my own mistakes, but it is so hard to track cause and effect with any certainty when it comes to parents and children. There will also always be a million factors out of everybody's control

    I'm a long way off having to deal with this myself (1yr old at home), but since becoming a parent I have thought about it and I'm really not sure what is the best approach.
    While I think parents' attitudes can help, and lead to a more reasonable attitude in the individual, there is definitely an overall drinking culture issue in the country that needs to be addressed somehow.

    That isn't going to be tackled by a parent in their house really though, so we need to do what we can regarding shaping our own kids attitudes and understanding towards alcohol and its pros and cons. I suppose similar to what is needed regards (other) drugs and sex.

    When we do get to the teenager stage, I think we will most likely take the approach of avoiding the taboo, and allowing in small amounts when seems reasonable (hopefully I'll know when this is when I get there). It also seems like allowing some level of excess in a safe environment is probably preferable than first experiences of real; alcohol impact being in a field etc.
    Unless the country changes drastically in the next 15 odd years, I'm not sure there is a better option.


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    #56
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Why drink if you're not going to get drunk?

    ergo

    Aren't you encouraging your kids to get drunk by letting them drink.

    Maybe it's a good thing to see where their tolerance is at.


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    #57
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Why drink if you're not going to get drunk?

    Seriously?


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    #58
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Some people seem to think that they can bring home 2 slabs of Scrumpy jack and their children won't have a drink problem if they give them a can or 2 as teenagers. Its typical of people refusing to look in the mirror for the cause of their childrens problem drinking.


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    #59
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Some people seem to think that they can bring home 2 slabs of Scrumpy jack and their children won't have a drink problem if they give them a can or 2 as teenagers. Its typical of people refusing to look in the mirror for the cause of their childrens problem drinking.

    My parents used to allow us to have a glass of wine with dinner as teenagers. We never wanted more because we didn't care for the taste and didn't think it was fun to be drunk. They took all the fun out of it by teaching us the proper times and ways to have alcoholic drinks. We never raided the liquor cabinet or went out with friends to drink. We thought parties with alcohol were crass. But, of course, our parents were not crass people. Maybe you are thinking only of parents you know.


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    #60
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Speedwell wrote: »
    My parents used to allow us to have a glass of wine with dinner as teenagers. We never wanted more because we didn't care for the taste and didn't think it was fun to be drunk. They took all the fun out of it by teaching us the proper times and ways to have alcoholic drinks. We never raided the liquor cabinet or went out with friends to drink. We thought parties with alcohol were crass. But, of course, our parents were not crass people. Maybe you are thinking only of parents you know.
    Note that I said some people. Why are you so defensive about your parents?


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    #61
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Note that I said some people. Why are you so defensive about your parents?

    Because you seem to believe that parents are crass idiots who don't know how to bring up their children properly with respect to alcohol. I wonder where you got that idea.


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