Sat 9th April 9th Connacht V Grenoble - European Glory

Rightwing

Billysays no wrote: »

And I thought my opinion was unwelcome. What an utterly daft and untrue statement

Eh...tell that to Henshaw.

Billysays no

As I see it the difference between Connacht and other provinces is in fact the pride you talk about. While you have Leinster, ulster and Munster with a god given right (as it would seem) in Connacht we just take pride in what our lads do. No god given right. Just our team of whom we are most proud.

Billysays no

Another thing that is going on is that this thread has reached 21 pages. This is unheralded territory. It says exactly where Connacht is. People are watching this and loving it.

wp_rathead

Rightwing wrote: »

Lam is better than Foley, but the Connacht players don't care for the jersey, it's a mere stepping stone, led by their so called marque players. Sad reality of it.

Ah **** offf

connemara man

Rightwing wrote: »

Lam is better than Foley, but the Connacht players don't care for the jersey, it's a mere stepping stone, led by their so called marque players. Sad reality of it.

Tell me how?

Utopia Parkway

.ak wrote: »

Feel terrible for Connacht, thought they played the most exciting rugby, some lovely stuff from Healy who must've been in contention for motm but I can't help but feel Connacht thought it was a kick about and in the end they did their best to lose it.

Conceded 14 points during the sin binning. Probably win the game otherwise. Even with a 4th choice 10. Hard to tell a team to play differently when they've been winning games all season by being expansive.

Rightwing

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ah **** offf

It may get you a few thanks, but alas, it doesn't face up to reality. In today's age, the 'thanks' may be more important for some. Not for Rightwing.

Billysays no

Rightwing wrote: »

It may get you a few thanks, but alas, it doesn't face up to reality. In today's age, the 'thanks' may be more important for some. Not for Rightwing.

Many of us have diverse opinions (certainly I can be included in this). However for you to come out of nowhere and accuse the Connacht team of not having pride in the jersey deserved the response wprathead supplied.

wp_rathead

Rightwing wrote: »

It may get you a few thanks, but alas, it doesn't face up to reality. In today's age, the 'thanks' may be more important for some. Not for Rightwing.

Good lad
Talking sh!te

salmocab

This committed to the jersey thing is nonsense. Lots of players in most clubs love their clubs while they are there but would still move for the money because ultimately they are working men and need to do whats right for them and their families but that doesn't mean they aren't 100% committed to their current cause. Take someone like Aki he seems to be really committed to me but Id be fairly sure if Toulon came and waved a pile of cash he would go and thats not knocking him thats just the reality of professional sport. Some clubs will have players who might have come up through the ranks as it were and love the club to the point that they wouldn't ever want to leave but there are less of them than we like to think. We just need to learn to enjoy them while they are with us.

neelia11

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Hard to tell a team to play differently when they've been winning games all season by being expansive.

well they can have the same attacking threat and just add a bit more focus when they dont have the ball. Like organise a defensive line, make first up tackles etc, play like its a 1 point lead with 5 minutes to go.

CMOTDibbler

neelia11 wrote: »

well they can have the same attacking threat and just add a bit more focus when they dont have the ball. Like organise a defensive line, make first up tackles etc, play like its a 1 point lead with 5 minutes to go.

They were able to do this against Leinster and Ulster. What went wrong yesterday?

jm08

Rightwing has a valid point of view. Connacht players don't have the same weight of expectation on them that the more successful provinces have. Guarantee if either MUnster or Leinster lost that game last night in the manner that they did no excuses would be accepted. Connacht are funded the same as the others now and there has been a lot of investment in coaching and academy.

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

Rightwing has a valid point of view. Connacht players don't have the same weight of expectation on them that the more successful provinces have. Guarantee if either MUnster or Leinster lost that game last night in the manner that they did no excuses would be accepted. Connacht are funded the same as the others now and there has been a lot of investment in coaching and academy.

The two of you were just waiting to put the boot in. It's laughably obvious that there's been huge envy of Connacht in certain quarters and a result like this is manna from heaven.

jm08

salmocab wrote: »

This committed to the jersey thing is nonsense. Lots of players in most clubs love their clubs while they are there but would still move for the money because ultimately they are working men and need to do whats right for them and their families but that doesn't mean they aren't 100% committed to their current cause. Take someone like Aki he seems to be really committed to me but Id be fairly sure if Toulon came and waved a pile of cash he would go and thats not knocking him thats just the reality of professional sport. Some clubs will have players who might have come up through the ranks as it were and love the club to the point that they wouldn't ever want to leave but there are less of them than we like to think. We just need to learn to enjoy them while they are with us.

The money was the same for Henshaw whether he stayed or went.

neelia11

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

They were able to do this against Leinster and Ulster. What went wrong yesterday?

I think its poor concentration possibly. Last few minutes in big home game against leinster and they have a one point lead. Mind focused on the job. But in the game last night they seemed to just switch off defensively when it was 19-3 and a few minutes later it was 19-16. Inter-pro's always sharpen teams focus too. They were in with a shout of a LBP in Ravenhill too.

During the 6n leinster beat zebre 52-0 & 27-10, connacht beat zebre 51-34. There seems to be a complete unwillingness or inability to defend when they have a biggish lead. Grenoble are a respectable outfit and I dont think connacht paid them enough respect.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The two of you were just waiting to put the boot in. It's laughably obvious that there's been huge envy of Connacht in certain quarters and a result like this is manna from heaven.

What is there to be envious of? Connacht have not won anything yet.

its_phil

omerin wrote: »

Unlucky tonight, injuries played a part but is lamb that much better then Foley? He is better, no question, but too often Connacht fail to close out games and a lot of blame should fall on him. I would love if Munster played like Connacht but without the headless chicken stuff, and by the way is the 10 available next season, fancy a trade? :pac:

Edinburgh away, Leinster home, Munster away, Dragons away, Ospreys away and Scarlets at home to deny LBP.

All games Connacht had to close out this season.

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

What is there to be envious of? Connacht have not won anything yet.

What you and Rightwing have posted is utter nonsense. If Munster had played like that, you'd be falling over yourselves with excuses about 4th choice out halves, players playing out of position, the injury toll, sin binnings at crucial times and praising the kind of play that scored three tries in the first half alone.

But no. It's about lack of pride in the jersey, mercenaries who'd leave at the drop of a euro and calling them one season wonders, when the evidence of the build up over three seasons to this level is as obvious as the nose on your face. :rolleyes:

Hard luck Connacht, great effort. The enterprise and skill levels put the rest of the provinces to shame, bar maybe Ulster in flashes.

Journeyman_1

ITT: Lack of player Pashun!!!!

Seriously though, the lack of class shown here is ridiculous.

its_phil

jm08 wrote: »

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The two of you were just waiting to put the boot in. It's laughably obvious that there's been huge envy of Connacht in certain quarters and a result like this is manna from heaven.

What is there to be envious of? Connacht have not won anything yet.

Ability to throw passes outside the second receiver?

Also, should we get the tape out for those Heineken Cup final losses Munster had and basically boil the losses down to lack of pride. ROG probably would have made that kick against Northampton if he actually loved playing for Munster.

Such nonsense

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

What you and Rightwing have posted is utter nonsense. If Munster had played like that, you'd be falling over yourselves with excuses about 4th choice out halves, players playing out of position, the injury toll, sin binnings at crucial times and praising the kind of play that scored three tries in the first half alone.

But no. It's about lack of pride in the jersey, mercenaries who'd leave at the drop of a euro and calling them one season wonders, when the evidence of the build up over three seasons to this level is as obvious as the nose on your face. :rolleyes:

Most Munster supporters would not give a damn how Munster played as long as they got the win.

Munster in particular had a lot of injuries this year and lost their greatest player as well and no leeway has been given for that.

For years Connacht did not get the same resources as the other provinces. Now that they are should mean that their success and failures should be judged on the same criteria as the other provinces.

The point was made that it is expected that players will leave for more money. I'm pointing out that was not a reason for Henshaw to leave Connacht.

Journeyman_1

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

ITT: Lack of player Pashun!!!!

Seriously though, the lack of class shown here is ridiculous.

It is but look at the culprits. Do you expect any better?

former total

its_phil wrote: »

Edinburgh away, Leinster home, Munster away, Dragons away, Ospreys away and Scarlets at home to deny LBP.

All games Connacht had to close out this season.

They have improved massively in this regard this season, when you think back to the Cardiff or Gloucester games (among others) last season.

That said, when you race out to a 16-point lead, get clawed back, then get 13 points ahead only to be hauled in again, and then finally lose it, it's fair enough to question either the tactics or the mentality.

As usual though, the rational argument is getting lost in a forest of bollocks.

CMOTDibbler

former total wrote: »

As usual though, the rational argument is getting lost in a forest of bollocks.

That has to be post of the month if not of the year. :cool:

jm08

its_phil wrote: »

Ability to throw passes outside the second receiver?

Also, should we get the tape out for those Heineken Cup final losses Munster had and basically boil the losses down to lack of pride. ROG probably would have made that kick against Northampton if he actually loved playing for Munster.

Such nonsense

No I'm not jealous of that ability. Big deal. With all that ability, the record books will say Connacht lost.

There is a big difference between losing a Hcup final and losing a QF in the secondary competition of challenge cup. A hell of a lot of pressure in a final for one.

neelia11

its_phil wrote: »

Edinburgh away, Leinster home, Munster away, Dragons away, Ospreys away and Scarlets at home to deny LBP.

All games Connacht had to close out this season.

But a lot of the good defence is last 10 minutes in close games were someone switching off for a few seconds loses the game there and then. The end result is in focus. Where was this defensive focus in the 32-40 minutes last night? Is it just a case of they score we score and if we have something to defend in the last 5 minutes we will concentrate fully?

Last night was probably the best game Ive seen this season for entertainment but if connacht had taken a conservative option a few times in the first half when it was 19-3 they would have won the game comfortably. They allowed grenoble back into the game by conceding territory and coughing up possession too cheaply.

its_phil

jm08 wrote: »

its_phil wrote: »

Ability to throw passes outside the second receiver?

Also, should we get the tape out for those Heineken Cup final losses Munster had and basically boil the losses down to lack of pride. ROG probably would have made that kick against Northampton if he actually loved playing for Munster.

Such nonsense

No I'm not jealous of that ability. Big deal. With all that ability, the record books will say Connacht lost.

There is a big difference between losing a Hcup final and losing a QF in the secondary competition of challenge cup. A hell of a lot of pressure in a final for one.

Turn the sarcasm detector on there would you?

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

The point was made that it is expected that players will leave for more money. I'm pointing out that was not a reason for Henshaw to leave Connacht.

On wages no, but on commercial opportunity then yes.

Padkir

vienne86 wrote: »

I think the sin bin played a part too.

But nice penalty for Connacht....Cooney kicking (:eek:) Good man! 30-32!

We were in well before kick off and he was practising. Nailed every one of them from 30/40/50 yards (with a bit to spare). Lovely strike of a ball. Would have no issues with him taking a few kicks after watching that.

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

Rightwing has a valid point of view.

jm08 wrote: »

The point was made that it is expected that players will leave for more money. I'm pointing out that was not a reason for Henshaw to leave Connacht.

The point was one you endorsed. :rolleyes:

Buer

CMOTDibbler wrote:

They were able to do this against Leinster and Ulster. What went wrong yesterday?

Complacency against a better attacking side than Leinster or Ulster, I reckon.

CMOTDibbler

neelia11 wrote: »

On wages no, but on commercial opportunity then yes.

Would the commercial opportunities for Henshaw the Connacht player or Henshaw the Leinster player not be outweighed by Henshaw the Irish international?

neelia11

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Would the commercial opportunities for Henshaw the Connacht player or Henshaw the Leinster player not be outweighed by Henshaw the Irish international?

i think henshaw the irish international playing for leinster and based in dublin has more market value.

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

On wages no, but on commercial opportunity then yes.

So the likes of Conor Murray and Peter O'Mahony are making huge financial sacrifices because they are not Playing for a Dublin based province?

its_phil

former total wrote: »

its_phil wrote: »

Edinburgh away, Leinster home, Munster away, Dragons away, Ospreys away and Scarlets at home to deny LBP.

All games Connacht had to close out this season.

They have improved massively in this regard this season, when you think back to the Cardiff or Gloucester games (among others) last season.

That said, when you race out to a 16-point lead, get clawed back, then get 13 points ahead only to be hauled in again, and then finally lose it, it's fair enough to question either the tactics or the mentality.

As usual though, the rational argument is getting lost in a forest of bollocks.

Was responding to the more often than not line, which isn't true.

I've no problem with the questioning of tactics but the mentality thing doesn't wash with me. I've seen mentally weak Connacht teams lose the games that I listed and two of them closed off with a TBP.

They've still a way to go with knock out mentality to get to that next stage, it's not easy to make a breakthrough for trophies, but it took Glasgow, Munster and Leinster more than one season.

its_phil

jm08 wrote: »

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

What you and Rightwing have posted is utter nonsense. If Munster had played like that, you'd be falling over yourselves with excuses about 4th choice out halves, players playing out of position, the injury toll, sin binnings at crucial times and praising the kind of play that scored three tries in the first half alone.

But no. It's about lack of pride in the jersey, mercenaries who'd leave at the drop of a euro and calling them one season wonders, when the evidence of the build up over three seasons to this level is as obvious as the nose on your face. :rolleyes:

Most Munster supporters would not give a damn how Munster played as long as they got the win.

Munster in particular had a lot of injuries this year and lost their greatest player as well and no leeway has been given for that.

For years Connacht did not get the same resources as the other provinces. Now that they are should mean that their success and failures should be judged on the same criteria as the other provinces.

The point was made that it is expected that players will leave for more money. I'm pointing out that was not a reason for Henshaw to leave Connacht.

Add your reply here.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Would the commercial opportunities for Henshaw the Connacht player or Henshaw the Leinster player not be outweighed by Henshaw the Irish international?

Henshaw would have been a big fish in a small in Connacht whereas with LAeinster he will be an average size fish (behind Heaslip, Sexton, Kearney and Sob and about to be overtaken by Ringrose).

Conor Murray seems to do well on the commercial front despite not being based in Dublin.

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

So the likes of Conor Murray and Peter O'Mahony are making huge financial sacrifices because they are not Playing for a Dublin based province?

Henshaw is moving IMO because he thinks Leinster is better for him as a player and commercially. Murray and POM play for munster not connacht. Munster have a much higher profile as a result of the Heineken cup story etc.

its_phil

No post

its_phil

neelia11 wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

So the likes of Conor Murray and Peter O'Mahony are making huge financial sacrifices because they are not Playing for a Dublin based province?

Henshaw is moving IMO because he thinks Leinster is better for him as a player and commercially. Murray and POM play for munster not connacht. Munster have a much higher profile as a result of the Heineken cup story etc.

Commercially it's a better decision but from what I understand personal reasons was the driver. Nothing to do with Connacht organisation

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The point was one you endorsed. :rolleyes:

I think Rightwing expressed it poorly, but I get with what he is saying.

Not surprising that most on here decided to shoot the messenger!

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

Henshaw is moving IMO because he thinks Leinster is better for him as a player and commercially. Murray and POM play for munster not connacht. Munster have a much higher profile as a result of the Heineken cup story etc.

Conor Murray and POM have high commercial value because they play for Ireland, not Munster.

jm08

its_phil wrote: »

Commercially it's a better decision but from what I understand personal reasons was the driver. Nothing to do with Connacht organisation

It's always personal reasons. Very hard to respond to, but I think Henshaw has let Connacht down badly with a right kick in the teeth. Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Conor Murray and POM have high commercial value because they play for Ireland, not Munster.

And also because they play for Munster

Bazzo

Ye're dead right lads.

Ian Keatley's cool head guided by the masterful hand of renowned tactician Axl Foley would have closed that game out beautifully.

Us Connacht lads are just pashunless pretenders to the Munster throne, this'll be proven next weekend

Tim Robbins

Connacht easily the best Irish rugby team this year. Once again, we are given an example of how inept we are at producing good quality coaches.

Take a look at how Connacht played yesterday and ask yourself how many of the so called top paid Irish coaches of recent years could get Connacht to play like that:

1. EOS
2. Kidney
3. Axel
4. Leo Cullen
5. Michael Bradley
6. Eric Elwood

No way. Me thinks.

On the other side look who has been coaching some of the best Irish sides in terms of running Rugby skills (offloading, spatial awareness, passing etc)

1. Connacht: Pat Lam - NZ
2. Leinster back to back Heineken Cup team - Joe. NZ
3. Belvedere great off loading skills in the SCT this year - Phil W. NZ

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And also because they play for Munster

Bazzo wrote: »

Ye're dead right lads.

Ian Keatley's cool head guided by the masterful hand of renowned tactician Axl Foley would have closed that game out beautifully.

Us Connacht lads are just pashunless pretenders to the Munster throne, this'll be proven next weekend

There is a greater expectation for Munster to win. Foley and Keatley would have been castigated by everyone for that result. The headlines in the newspapers would not be "Brave Munster narrowly lost etc. etc."

Now that Connacht are on an equal footing with the other provinces, they should be judged the same.

nice_guy80

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Connacht easily the best Irish rugby team this year. Once again, we are given an example of how inept we are at producing good quality coaches.

Take a look at how Connacht played yesterday and ask yourself how many of the so called top paid Irish coaches of recent years could get a time like Connacht to play like that:

1. EOS
2. Kidney
3. Axel
4. Leo Cullen
5. Michael Bradley
6. Eric Elwood

No way.

On the other side look who has been coaching some of the best Irish sides in terms of running Rugby skills (offloading, spatial awareness, passing etc)

1. Connacht: Pat Lam - NZ
2. Leinster back to back Heineken Cup team - Joe. NZ
3. Belvedere great off loading skills in the SCT this year - Phil W. NZ

As I have said many times before we have a serious deficiency in this country in how we are educating it to people playing it. It's depressing.

Fine, if you have some local Kiwi's living near you who will help out with the U10's. But for most of us that's not going to happen.

I really wish the IRFU would tackle this.

It's nothing to do with having foreign import coaches.

It's the willingness to try different things and the way coach education is directed and run.
Traditional methods are the safe methods, used for decades methods