Sat 9th April 9th Connacht V Grenoble - European Glory

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Call it whatever you like, but there are many precedents set in sport (and in life) where effort in developing players (or work skills) has been given, the recipient can't just walk away without putting a number of years service in.

Everyone owes someone something.

Of course he can walk away. If someone is upset by it, that's their issue. If someone feels they were 'owed' something, that's their issue. The player has to do what he feels is best personally and professionally.

JJ isn't as big a loss to Munster as Henshaw is to Connacht. Similarly for Moore and Leinster. Henshaw was Connacht's poster boy.

This just isn't an argument for criticising Henshaw's move. Had Earls signed for Saracens, would you say the same thing?

dub_skav

There is (or certainly was) a reward system in place for rugby players in Ireland, whereby the school that you played for and the club that you first played seniors for gets a payment when you turn pro.

It was viewed as a reward for developing players that may well be signed away from the club that developed them.

However - if that system is still in place - that payment would be long in the past in Henshaw's case.
Connacht are a pro club, Henshaw is moving to another pro club, for whatever reasons he wants.

Transfers happen all the time.

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

You cant compare normal life to a sports man/woman with a short time at their chosen sport. Henshaw wants to make the most of his career, professionally and financially and has obviously decided thats best served with Leinster for the next 3 years, maybe longer.

Equally a club puts an investment in which they would want a return for and a small window of opportunity to avail of it.

Most people have to invest in the development of their career (by going to University, doing an apprenticeship) which they have to pay for.

Henshaw gotta Central contract, so the money is the same there.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Equally a club puts an investment in which they would want a return for and a small window of opportunity to avail of it.

Most people have to invest in the development of their career (by going to University, doing an apprenticeship) which they have to pay for.

Henshaw gotta Central contract, so the money is the same there.

Rugby players have to invest a lot into the development of their career.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

This just isn't an argument for criticising Henshaw's move. Had Earls signed for Saracens, would you say the same thing?

Henshaw is 22 or 23. All I've said is that he should have stayed in Connacht for another year or 2.

I'd say the same o'd Keith Earls if he had not already spent 7 or 8 years with MUnster. And Earls didn't sign for Sarries despite the obvious attractions of Sarries of huge money and always being at the business end of the season. I suppose that would be a good example of loyalty. Henshaw moved for the same money, Earls stayed for less money (and he has a wife and kids to support).

Noopti

jm08 wrote: »

Equally a club puts an investment in which they would want a return for and a small window of opportunity to avail of it.

Most people have to invest in the development of their career (by going to University, doing an apprenticeship) which they have to pay for.

Henshaw gotta Central contract, so the money is the same there.

So should someone who leaves college and gets a job related to their field of study not be allowed leave that company for a long time? That company invested in an inexperienced grad, and that grad is learning loads on the job. So it is the same thing, whether they paid for college or not.

Pro rugby is a business, and Henshaw doesn't owe Connacht anything other than a big thank you. I would argue that whatever investment they made they have received back seven fold at this stage.

Noopti

Also remember, that investment Connacht made would be worth zero, zilch, nothing without the Robbie Henshaw part of the partnership. So saying he owes Connacht is a total fallacy. They owe him as much as he owes them.

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

Henshaw is 22 or 23. All I've said is that he should have stayed in Connacht for another year or 2.

I'd say the same o'd Keith Earls if he had not already spent 7 or 8 years with MUnster. And Earls didn't sign for Sarries despite the obvious attractions of Sarries of huge money and always being at the business end of the season. I suppose that would be a good example of loyalty. Henshaw moved for the same money, Earls stayed for less money (and he has a wife and kids to support).

so earls is an idiot is what your saying?

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

Equally a club puts an investment in which they would want a return for and a small window of opportunity to avail of it.

Most people have to invest in the development of their career (by going to University, doing an apprenticeship) which they have to pay for.

Henshaw gotta Central contract, so the money is the same there.

and connacht used the Henshaw image on posters to sell tickets and merchandise, to attract sponsors etc. Its not like its a one way thing. Connacht utilised a playing asset to generate income.

jm08

Noopti wrote: »

So should someone who leaves college and gets a job related to their field of study not be allowed leave that company for a long time? That company invested in an inexperienced grad, and that grad is learning loads on the job. So it is the same thing, whether they paid for college or not.

Pro rugby is a business, and Henshaw doesn't owe Connacht anything other than a big thank you. I would argue that whatever investment they made they have received back seven fold at this stage.

Depends on who paid for the college education. The Defence Forces send their cadets to college (UCG I think). They have to remain in the army for 12 years (I think).

Usually new grads pay based on their experience, so they are not earning the big bucks. Then lots of companies now do internship where you work for nothing.

irishbucsfan

I think the way this thread has totally collapsed is quite fitting really given the two large leads Connacht gave up during the game.

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

Depends on who paid for the college education. The Defence Forces send their cadets to college (UCG I think). They have to remain in the army for 12 years (I think).

Usually new grads pay based on their experience, so they are not earning the big bucks. Then lots of companies now do internship where you work for nothing.

Army careers can be 20-30-40 years. Henshaws rugby career could be 15 max, cut short at any time. not comparing like with like

salmocab

This all sounds to me like someone is getting in early for next year why Henshaw is a bad egg(clad in blue).

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

Army careers can be 20-30-40 years. Henshaws rugby career could be 15 max, cut short at any time. not comparing like with like

But while with the NUIG sponsored Connacht Academy, Henshaw did a degree in NUIG. All players are encouraged and aided to study while still playing so life is not going to end once their playing career is over.

Another 2 years at Connacht is hardly going to destroy his career. He was not being asked to take less money either. He would be on the same money and it's not as if Connacht are muck, with many thinking they are the best coached team in the Pro12.

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

and connacht used the Henshaw image on posters to sell tickets and merchandise, to attract sponsors etc. Its not like its a one way thing. Connacht utilised a playing asset to generate income.

Well, they can't use him any more. I wonder will all the young kids who seemingly worshipped him now start supporting Leinster?

Yeah_Right

I'm guessing jm08 has never changed jobs in his life and still lives in the hometown he grew up in. That's why he believes if someone moves any where ever, they're being disloyal.

its_phil

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think the way this thread has totally collapsed is quite fitting really given the two large leads Connacht gave up during the game.

Funnily enough no Connacht fans involved either. Leinster and Munster were born to bicker. :pac:

Journeyman_1

There is a spiderman meme that I want to post RE: the last few pages in this thread, but I'm not sure if it'll get me a ban/warning so I'll just talk about it hoping at least someone gets what I'm on about

Rightwing

Boils down to some fans like loyalty, others don't care. Sort of reminds me of Raheem Sterling leaving Liverpool.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out for him nonetheless.

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

But while with the NUIG sponsored Connacht Academy, Henshaw did a degree in NUIG. All players are encouraged and aided to study while still playing so life is not going to end once their playing career is over.

Another 2 years at Connacht is hardly going to destroy his career. He was not being asked to take less money either. He would be on the same money and it's not as if Connacht are muck, with many thinking they are the best coached team in the Pro12.

i worked for a company for 9 years, did plenty of overtime, did plenty of duties outside my role and one day the company downsized and I got made redundant and spent 14 months out of work [this was in 09-10 time when the recession hit]. Life is too short to do regrets. It can all be gone in the blink of an eye.

Henshaw can study for life after rugby but he only gets one go at his rugby career. I dont think he made any decision lightly and clearly weighed up everything before he made his decision. Connacht did a lot for Henshaw, Henshaw did a lot for connacht. Connacht have plenty of players who the locals can relate to now apart from Henshaw such as Aki, Buckley, Marmion, Healy and Niyi. They also have a coach who is known the world over. A lot of that increased profile has a lot to do with Henshaw. He owes them nothing.

jm08

neelia11 wrote: »

i worked for a company for 9 years, did plenty of overtime, did plenty of duties outside my role and one day the company downsized and I got made redundant and spent 14 months out of work [this was in 09-10 time when the recession hit]. Life is too short to do regrets. It can all be gone in the blink of an eye.

Just not comparable.

Henshaw can study for life after rugby but he only gets one go at his rugby career. I dont think he made any decision lightly and clearly weighed up everything before he made his decision. Connacht did a lot for Henshaw, Henshaw did a lot for connacht. Connacht have plenty of players who the locals can relate to now apart from Henshaw such as Aki, Buckley, Marmion, Healy and Niyi. They also have a coach who is known the world over. A lot of that increased profile has a lot to do with Henshaw. He owes them nothing.

I didn't realise the deal to stay with Connacht was to give up playing rugby. I understand now why he couldn't wait 2 more years until he was 25 to move to Leinster.

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

I didn't realise the deal to stay with Connacht was to give up playing rugby. I understand now why he couldn't wait 2 more years until he was 25 to move to Leinster.

i honestly think you have a comprehension problem because thats not at all what was said ????

irishgrover

The level of personal can animosity towards henshaw is just weird? Did a poster previously date his current girlfriend or something !?

jm08

irishgrover wrote: »

The level of personal can animosity towards henshaw is just weird? Did a poster previously date his current girlfriend or something !?

What animosity? Its just a few comments.

I'd just prefer to be in the trenches with John Muldoon because he has shown a huge amount of loyalty to Connacht.

jm08

sydthebeat wrote: »

i honestly think you have a comprehension problem because thats not at all what was said ????

I should have used a scarcasm smilie

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

Just not comparable.



I didn't realise the deal to stay with Connacht was to give up playing rugby. I understand now why he couldn't wait 2 more years until he was 25 to move to Leinster.

Well you are comparing the army or a normal day job to the henshaw situation with regard to serving time. The point I'm making is loyalty doesnt come into it. You do your job and get paid. Henshaw did his job and fulfilled his contract.

Your second point i dont understand. I never said he had to give up rugby. He decided to make the most of an opportunity he may never get again. He wants to progress his career elsewhere. Dont see why anyone would have a problem with that.

neelia11

jm08 wrote: »

Well, they can't use him any more. I wonder will all the young kids who seemingly worshipped him now start supporting Leinster?

And they arent paying him anymore either.

awec

Locked.