Hybrid VRT question

Patser

Sorry if this has been answered a million times, search showed nothing.

Anyway I'm about to join the Glorious Hybrid Revolution but I'm buying up North and have to VRT it.

The VRT website shows it's eligible for a rebate but doesn't mention the specifics of this. Is the rebate worked into the VRT quote, will it be deducted as I pay or do I have to fill in a form and claim it back later? Anyone know?

As for the car, hopefully I'll be back in here tomorrow showing it off.

stesaurus

Hybrid's like a Prius get nothing but PHEVs, plug-in Hybrids qualify up to €2500 of a rebate from the VRT. What are you buying?

Patser

DS5 diesel/electric hybrid.

They don't make that very clear on the site, to a layman like me a hybrid is a hybrid, not subsets of plug ins etc

There is a clear difference made of pure electric (leaf) vs hybrid alright.

Patser

From the VRT website

Hybrid electric vehicle' means a vehicle that derives its motor power from a combination of an internal combustion engine and an electric motor and is capable of being driven on electric propulsion alone for a material part of its normal driving cycle.

Wonder if the Citroen will qualify, it has a range of about 5km on pure electric.

stesaurus

It doesn't qualify I'm afraid. Nice car alright but it's just improving efficiency slightly and not really a green car as such. So I get why they don't include those types. It has to have an option of being plugged in and not just generating EV power from diesel/petrol and then also meet a few minimum requirements, range etc.
http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/I_am_a_consumer/What_Types_of_EVs_are_Eligible_for_Support/

This is the current list of available cars
http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/I_am_a_consumer/List_of_Eligible_Vehicles/

stesaurus

Import an ex-PCP Leaf in for about 6-10k with VRT free instead! Joking, enjoy the DS5

Patser

Thanks for that info Welsted, still a bit of a kick in the balls. Thought I had my research done. You go to the VRT site, it categorices and defines the different hybrids options - ice/battery, phev and pure electric but nowhere does it say check SEAI for compatability or that there are exemptions.

zilog_jones

If it's a used import I don't think you're eligible anyway. I'm looking at buying a Prius Plug-in in the UK and don't expect anything in terms of the SEAI grant, but VRT is still quite low due to low CO2 emissions at least.

stesaurus

zilog_jones wrote: »

If it's a used import I don't think you're eligible anyway. I'm looking at buying a Prius Plug-in in the UK and don't expect anything in terms of the SEAI grant, but VRT is still quite low due to low CO2 emissions at least.

Used still counts. You won't get the 5k SEAI grant on a used car but it should qualify for the VRT rebate of 2500.
Actually now that I've said that there may be a need to be selling the car in Ireland already in which case the Prius PHEV wouldn't qualify as it wasn't sold here. It's the same reason that the Tesla's aren't listed and don't currently qualify.

zilog_jones

Looking at the SEAI website, the only way I can see of getting the grant is through a registered dealer, so I can't see how private used imports would be eligible.

Edit: Also under their eligibility requirements, they state that EV-only range on a PHEV must exceed 20km. The 1st gen Prius PHEV can only realistically do 15km - official NEDC range is 23km but not sure if the SEAI accept that bollocks.

stesaurus

The Leafs, Zoe's, I3's and the likes of the C-Zero all qualify and people have imported them privately pretty much VRT free as a result. I'd say you probably could qualify on any car matching their criteria but not on the list. You'd probably spend a fair bit of time getting it added and would need all the relevant paperwork regarding emissions from the dealers but it could be done.
As far as I know Tesla weren't too happy with people bringing in their own cars privately and wanted them to wait until they were up and running here first. So maybe they weren't too forthcoming with providing data to VRT/SEAI in advance of this.

Patser

It really is a confusing hodge podge of info. I never thought I had to look through the SEAI website for info on a car, and even there their focus is understandably more on their own grants for pure electric cars, as opposed to VRT rebates.

As mentioned above even well known 'superstar' EV s like Tesla don't qualify. So behind large vague headlines about promoting hybrids and EVs, you really are restricted to choice.

BoatMad

As far as I know Tesla weren't too happy with people bringing in their own cars privately and wanted them to wait until they were up and running here first. So maybe they weren't too forthcoming with providing data to VRT/SEAI in advance of this

given the consumer reports on reliability issues with Teslas, which are fixed admirably fast by Tesla service . I can easily see why Tesla, didnt private imports in the absence of a service facility .

grogi

s.welstead wrote: »

Hybrid's like a Prius get nothing but PHEVs, plug-in Hybrids qualify up to €2500 of a rebate from the VRT. What are you buying?

What you're talking is SEAI rebate, available for EV and PHEV. Regular hybrids don't not qualify, as many other EV cars, such as Ampera...

There is also VRT rebate (on a sliding scale: http://vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=17) available and hybrids are eligible, DS5 should be. The final figure on VRT calculator takes that rebate into account.

OP - have you driven that car? The gearbox in them is horrible...

Patser

grogi wrote: »

What you're talking is SEAI rebate, available for EV and PHEV. Regular hybrids don't not qualify, as many other EV cars, such as Ampera...

There is also VRT rebate (on a sliding scale: http://vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=17) available and hybrids are eligible, DS5 should be. The final figure on VRT calculator takes that rebate into account.

OP - have you driven that car? The gearbox in them is horrible...

Yep, took one out for a decent spin. It is a bit clunky but it's a dsport spec I'm getting so has flappy paddles to help override some of its characteristics. Also I'm mostly on a 30km dual carriageway cruise.

And seriously, you just have to look at the thing! I don't care if the Leaf ran on virgin rabbits' tears, the Prius on unicorn farts and the DS5 on the sweat and blood of orphans with a clunky gear box, I'd still have it.

grogi

Patser wrote: »

Yep, took one out for a decent spin. It is a bit clunky but it's a dsport spec I'm getting so has flappy paddles to help override some of its characteristics. Also I'm mostly on a 30km dual carriageway cruise.

And seriously, you just have to look at the thing! I don't care if the Leaf ran on virgin rabbits' tears, the Prius on unicorn farts and the DS5 on the sweat and blood of orphans with a clunky gear box, I'd still have it.

Very good then, I love the look of it as well. Too bad you can't get Hydroactive in them, can you?

Patser

grogi wrote: »

There is also VRT rebate (on a sliding scale: http://vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=17) available and hybrids are eligible, DS5 should be. The final figure on VRT calculator takes that rebate into account.

Can't see it mentioned below.

Patser

grogi wrote: »

Very good then, I love the look of it as well. Too bad you can't get Hydroactive in them, can you?

No, it's crying out for it but underneath it's mostly Peugeot (308 and Rcz), the hybrid engine was shared too but due to poor sales in China ( they're still diesel-phobic) it was canned. Ds sales though in China are apparently very good.

grogi

€23k * 15% = €3.5k. Yet you need to pay €2478 as far as I can see...

Patser

grogi wrote: »

€23k * 15% = €3.5k. Yet you need to pay €2478 as far as I can see...

Good maths skills!! In the age rating it qualified as €1050 rebate, bang on the difference there!

Thanks Grogi, I think there's a fair few questions answered there

stesaurus

grogi wrote: »

What you're talking is SEAI rebate, available for EV and PHEV. Regular hybrids don't not qualify, as many other EV cars, such as Ampera...

There is also VRT rebate (on a sliding scale: http://vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=17) available and hybrids are eligible, DS5 should be. The final figure on VRT calculator takes that rebate into account.

OP - have you driven that car? The gearbox in them is horrible...

Interesting, learn something new every day

zilog_jones

That would also explain why I got a €1500 quote for VRT on a '12 Prius Plug-in. I should have actually looked at the numbers...

Patser

Well she's here anyway, VRT next weekend

oinkely

that is one beautiful looking car!

Patser

oinkely wrote: »

that is one beautiful looking car!

You should see the inside.



Yeah, I'm really happy with it. Creaks a little on steep hills, probably due to weight, but having fun silently gliding around town, while still having a lot of power for motorway. Really comfy interior, a 'makes you feel special ' car.

Fuel economy not great though - a little less than 50mpg but I bought the hybrid version mostly for its better rear suspension set up than the regular car. Extra 40bhp handy too.

The problem with Diesel Hybrids is they aren't any more efficient than the petrol hybrids due to the engine having to run more to keep up temperature for emissions because diesels have less waste heat they're not really suitable for hybrid applications. They're not as efficient in this environment.

It is a nice looking car. Congrats.

BoatMad

Nice car

Can't see the point of hybrids , to me they seem to exist to allow them to pass the NEDC test and claim lower emissions , when in reality they end up on the ice most of the time

Hybrids should have been introduced right across the industry 15 years ago, they're more than good enough and have well proven themselves.

Today they should be everywhere and there should be no diesels. We probably should have been driving plug ins 10 years ago only for pure corruption and greed.

Oil has for the most part been too cheap and car manufacturers have been making too much money for ICE tech. So why the hell bother ?

peposhi

Deleted User wrote: »

Hybrids should have been introduced right across the industry 15 years ago, they're more than good enough and have well proven themselves.

Today they should be everywhere and there should be no diesels. We probably should have been driving plug ins 10 years ago only for pure corruption and greed.

Oil has for the most part been too cheap and car manufacturers have been making too much money for ICE tech. So why the hell bother ?

It's not only the car itself that makes money, Mad Lad... The bloody service parts are the one that make a fortune...

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Hybrids should have been introduced right across the industry 15 years ago, they're more than good enough and have well proven themselves.

Today they should be everywhere and there should be no diesels. We probably should have been driving plug ins 10 years ago only for pure corruption and greed.

Oil has for the most part been too cheap and car manufacturers have been making too much money for ICE tech. So why the hell bother ?

while it has become fashionable in ireland in recent years to shout corruption and greed at everything you dont like , I think the reasons are more complex

Car companies have billions and billions invested in conventional car plants , distribution, sales and service. states have huge vested interests via employment of large workforces etc

changing all of that , takes time,

secondly , most hybrids are quite frankly JUNK , batteries with 20km range etc , these are just " rule beaters", as the NEDC test is carried out over slow speeds and restricted ranges and hence these hybrids can claim low emissions from the test , whereas in real life the damm things are just petrol engine cars

in my view there should be no incentives to own hybrids , pure BEVs are the way to go .

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

while it has become fashionable in ireland in recent years to shout corruption and greed at everything you dont like , I think the reasons are more complex

Car companies have billions and billions invested in conventional car plants , distribution, sales and service. states have huge vested interests via employment of large workforces etc

changing all of that , takes time

Majority of parts is shared between conventional automobile and a hybrid automobile. Body panels, suspension, interior etc.

BoatMad wrote: »

secondly , most hybrids are quite frankly JUNK , batteries with 20km range etc , these are just " rule beaters", as the NEDC test is carried out over slow speeds and restricted ranges and hence these hybrids can claim low emissions from the test , whereas in real life the damm things are just petrol engine cars

Again, invalid argument.

Ordinary hybrids, with abysmal battery range, still make sense: the battery aim is only to capture the kinetic energy of the car when it is breaking and reuse it. That gives substantial savings, especially in urban traffic. Adding electric engine which provides instant torque gives much more freedom when designing the accompaning ICE - thus additional savings can be achieved by changing the characteristics of the ICE - for instance by replacing inefficient Otto cycle with more optimized Atkinson cycle.

Plug-in hybrids bring even more to the table... The typical commute is rather short - and aforementioned range of 20km is sufficient to covers most of those commutes. Plugin hybrids, even with such short range, exhibit most of the advantages of a BEVs - low cost of everyday driving as well as reduced emission and noise in the urban centres. However they don't bring the range anxiety to the table, as you can freely refill it with petrol/diesel.

The only disadvantage I see it the increased weight of the car compared to a BEV - thus it will be less efficient running in pure EV mode than a BEV.


So no - Hybrids are not JUNK. Au contraire. They are a very good compromise before we get the EV infrastructure in place and battery prices to more digestible levels.

peposhi

peposhi wrote: »

It's not only the car itself that makes money, Mad Lad... The bloody service parts are the one that make a fortune...

Indeed, how could I forget.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

secondly , most hybrids are quite frankly JUNK , batteries with 20km range etc , these are just " rule beaters", as the NEDC test is carried out over slow speeds and restricted ranges and hence these hybrids can claim low emissions from the test , whereas in real life the damm things are just petrol engine cars

in my view there should be no incentives to own hybrids , pure BEVs are the way to go .

We could and should have been driving hybrids years ago, diesel was the greatest con ever.

20 kms are plug ins, but even non plug in hybrids are better than diesels.

I was a die hard Diesel fan for years and clocked up well over 350,000 miles in diesels both non turbo to the PD Turbo diesel VW's. But after driving the prius from a PD VW Group diesel was just amazing and I never turned back since then.

The MK II Prius that came out in 2004 was so much better than any diesel, 60-64 mpg from a petrol automatic was amazing. 12 years later, the majority of people are still driving diesels.

I agree that today BEV's are the way forward. But the message is slow to get through but if you check out my thread from earlier today the Leaf is actually not selling that bad in Ireland compared to many other models.

What we could have had years ago if chevron Texaco did not own the rights to the NiMh battery, they forbid any Auto maker from making a hybrid with a battery larger than that of the non plug in prius.

Captainsatnav

Hi folks,
Question still remauins however - how do you claim the rebate? Looking at a car, vrt payable will be about €2100. 2 years old so rebate of €1350 which means effective vrt payable of €700 roughly.
Do you pay the full whack at the NCTS centre on the day of the asessment and claim the rebate back (and f so, how) or does the NCTS factor the rebate amount in before giving you a payable amount?
Thanks

BTW it's a lexus CT200h I'm getting.

grogi

Cork123456789 wrote: »

Hi folks,
Question still remauins however - how do you claim the rebate? Looking at a car, vrt payable will be about €2100. 2 years old so rebate of €1350 which means effective vrt payable of €700 roughly.
Do you pay the full whack at the NCTS centre on the day of the asessment and claim the rebate back (and f so, how) or does the NCTS factor the rebate amount in before giving you a payable amount?
Thanks

BTW it's a lexus CT200h I'm getting.

the latter. The figure you online get includes the rebate already

Captainsatnav

grogi wrote: »

the latter. The figure you online get includes the rebate already

Balls...

WattsUp

I recently registered as PHEV. There wasn't a code on the VRT system. They inspected the car, scanned all documentation etc and said they would request a code from revenue and usually get it the same day.

That afternoon the NCT called and said my quote was ready. It correctly calculated VRT at 14% based on their value and then reduced VRT bill by 2250 for a plug-in hybrid.

I just popped down and paid the bill that day. Done and dusted.

For example if current OMSP value was 20000 and VRT rate was 14% you would expect to pay 2800 for a normal car. However for a hybrid, less than 2 years old, you would see a VRT bill of 1450 (2800-1350). Have a look in the VRT calculator for a examples like the prius.

Captainsatnav

20rothmans wrote: »

I recently registered as PHEV. There wasn't a code on the VRT system. They inspected the car, scanned all documentation etc and said they would request a code from revenue and usually get it the same day.

That afternoon the NCT called and said my quote was ready. It correctly calculated VRT at 14% based on their value and then reduced VRT bill by 2250 for a plug-in hybrid.

I just popped down and paid the bill that day. Done and dusted.

For example if current OMSP value was 20000 and VRT rate was 14% you would expect to pay 2800 for a normal car. However for a hybrid, less than 2 years old, you would see a VRT bill of 1450 (2800-1350). Have a look in the VRT calculator for a examples like the prius.

Hi - thanks for that. Can I just ask if the quote on the vrt calculator is inclusive of the rebate? For example right now I'm getting vrt estimate of about €2100 on a lexis CT200H. Is this inclusive of the rebate? Is this what I would be liable for or would it be €900 odd?

WattsUp

Assuming a value (current OMSP) from revenue of 23000 then 15% VRT would be 3450. Take away the 1350 and would be expecting a quote around 2100.....

I suspect VRT discount is already in the quote unless your car is valued at 14000 by revenue :-(

Sorry

grogi

Cork123456789 wrote: »

Hi - thanks for that. Can I just ask if the quote on the vrt calculator is inclusive of the rebate? For example right now I'm getting vrt estimate of about €2100 on a lexis CT200H. Is this inclusive of the rebate? Is this what I would be liable for or would it be €900 odd?

Yes. Despite not stating it anywhere in the quotation, the rebate is included.

WattsUp

Worth doing calculation yourself to check anyway. When importing a Plug In Hybrid it was incorrectly classified as a Hybrid and the 1350 discount applied instead of 2250......That was why they had to get a new code from revenue and saved me 900.

blade1

How accurate is the vrt amount given on the website?
It says €3440 for a 132 is300h f sport.

It's got premium sat nav and full leather upgrades which I assume are not included in the figure given.
Would I be looking at much more?

WattsUp

This document describes the process. Section 8.3.3 deals with extras

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-08.pdf?download=true

Seems like for a 3 year old car 40% of the original cost of optional extras is added to the valuation. Then VRT for you is calculated at 16% of that valuation.

I'd guess extras will cost you 16% of 40% of their original cost. If leather cost 2000 new then it might add €128 to your VRT bill.